The Circle: How did it go?

So, discussion is winding down. It's now time to survey how people think it went, and what we learned, so we can apply them to future One LibraryThing, One Book reads?

Was it a success? What worked and what didn't? How can we improve and deepen discussion? How can we bring more people in? What else do you have to say?

As far as I can see, it seemed to go pretty well. Lots of points raised and opinions put forth in discussions, they've continued on for a few weeks, gone on some tangents here and there, I'd call it a win.
I don't see that anything went as far as "didn't work," but as far as deepening discussion, it'll probably depend on the book. Different kinds of books take different kinds of questions, it depends on the time period, the subject/content, etc. Being able to ask specific questions that aren't too broad; "what did you think of ___"/"did you like/dislike ___" are nice, but don't really provoke depth. More, "why do you think -such&so- happened," "why did the author choose to..." "what was the effect of..." and so forth, these further discussion. Things that require more thought, more insight. Also always good for getting people talking is, of course, anything that people can have conflicting opinions about—questions that can have multiple points of view and get people debating the merits of one outlook over another.

More people? Choose an accessible book!! ;) This is also the biggest thing to my mind that didn't work. A lot more people were interested but didn't have a way to read it, so couldn't join in. That didn't stop me from contributing to the wider discussion points and not really worrying about the spoilers since, this time, I was more interested in the conversations and seeing how this all worked out and whatnot. But normally I run far far away from potential spoilers. So, yeah, please choose something old & widely available, from libraries, in cheap editions, etc, for the next title. The more people who can get the book reasonably, the more people who will try out joining in.

What else? That's easy. When are you/we choosing the next book?!

Sad to hear that it's winding down already. I'm currently #76 of 93 on the hold list, so at that rate it would take another couple of weeks to have the book in hand. No need to restate my opinion of how you can get more people involved, except to emphasize that you don't need to swing to the opposite extreme and do only classics.

Agree with Zoe. It only needs to be a year or so old for it to be accessible for library users. That's not "old."

And when are you choosing the next book? I think it should have been chosen a month ago.

For the record, I was not at all suggesting only "old" books. But this one was brand new, so it seemed fitting that the next book up be an old title.

>6 .Monkey.: Oh, I know, but I got the impression from Tim's posts elsewhere that he thought the only solution to the accessibility issue was to choose classics published 50+ years ago. But as Morphidae said, even books a year old can be readily available from the library.

Well not at all libraries, but yeah. I was thinking maybe a little back and forth, something a little older, something a little more modern, would help keep things varied a bit and all that.

Yes, that was more aimed at Tim. His response to our complaints about a book that was out only a few weeks was that we'd have to do old classics.

I thought the actual discussions have gone very well. I like the consideration that people have put into their posts, and I like that we don't all think the same. I'm more than game to do this again.

I thought the subject of the first book chosen was very appropriate for us LT people, and perhaps led to more discussion than other books might, but I do agree that availability is something so new is a problem, but that is certainly not a unique opinion.

It would be nice to have the next book chosen well in advance, and I would even like to see books chosen 3 or 4 in advance so that people have a chance to get reasonably priced copies, although it's nice when we've all recently finished the book so it's fresh in our minds. (Especially if you have a mind like a steel sieve, as mine is.) If I knew the books ahead, I would start acquiring them but not read them until close to discussion time.

Part of the timing in choosing a book depends on how often there will be a group read. I think different ideas were bandied around on that subject, too.

I'd like to see some classics but not limited to classics. I'd like to see books that we think will become classics in time, but of course, that is hard to know. I guess I just want to avoid too much "fluff." I certainly read my share, but don't want to spend time discussing them. I seriously doubt we'd go in that direction anyway.

So, I very much enjoyed this discussion and look forward to the next. Thanks to the good people at LT for organizing this.

I didn't weigh in in the discussion this time but read most of the posts. I thought the discussion interesting and informative. Although I didn't like the book when I finished it, the discussion made the whole venture worthwhile and left me with new thoughts about the novel. This was my first on-line book group and I was pleased with the courtesy and thought that went into the comments.

I like the idea of choosing both old and new materials for the future. I agree that such a new book is not the ideal choice because of the accessibility issues already mentioned. I like the idea of choosing 2 or 3 books in advance for future discussions.

Thank you, LT staff for making this happen.

Since I didn't have access to a copy I sat this one out. But I enjoyed lurking the discussions.

I enjoyed reading the discussions, even though I was late to the party due to staying away from LT for a while and seeing the notice just before the discussions opened. I managed to get a kindle version of The Circle for $6.something by coincidence. Not sure I would always spend money for the book reads but every few months I think would be fine. I look forward to the next selection!

I really liked the discussions and used the site way more than I thought I would. In terms of choosing the next book I am split between having users vote or simply being told what's next. I can envision a handful of people voting on a few random books which would not be that beneficial or informational. I think that maybe our LT Overlords know best and should choose the next book (obviously based on the discussion here).

It might be good for staff to select a small handful of options meeting some sort of criteria (date, genre, etc), and then we vote on those. I think trying to have tons of people nominate for such a varied group could easily turn into chaos.

>15 .Monkey.:

Yeah, we agree.

More generally, I'm interested in more thoughts on the discussions. We got a lot of feedback before about the process of choosing, and will be listening to that.

I liked that the discussion was broken up into a number of threads focused on different aspects. I think that helped focus some of the discussion instead of one big free-for-all.

>15 .Monkey.: I'm for this deductive approach.

>17 tottman: The focuses that worked were real successes, I think. I found them stimulating, if not necessarily sustained when other popped up. Sometimes I caught myself on a tangent into topics that were somewhat related, but could have been more so, so I'll try to stay more on point. I love being able to contribute in different discussion groups simultaneously, which is kind of the nature of the beast in this setting, I suppose. It was also very enjoyable observing ideas and revelations from one topic spill over and assimilate into others -- that was most interesting to me, structurally.

>17 tottman:
Yes! (Smile)

How can we bring more people in?

I think it might be helpful to have more non-spoiler discussions even after the "real" discussion started. There are all sorts of issues raised by the book that could have been discussed on their own. And if people can begin to read, enjoy, and participate in the discussions even before they've committed to reading the book, then I think they'll be more likely to pick up the book and join in the spoiler discussions as well.

>20 _Zoe_:

I think that's a good idea. Just a Non-Spoiler Thread?

This might be a special case. We chose an "issues" book, and I suspect 3/4 of the comments were tied to them. I worry that if we chose a book whose only discussion points are aesthetic, we'll get a lot less commentary.

I like what _Zoe_ said in Message 20. I would have loved having discussion on the book while I was still reading it. When I read a book out loud to listeners, most of the discussion on the book happens during pauses (usually planned, sometimes spontaneous) in the reading. We relive an exciting scene that just happened, or we guess what we think is going to happen next. We get quite worked up during the book. The discussion at the end is usually quite brief in comparison.

I'm not sure how that could be adapted to our group, or if you'd even want to. If you did, perhaps a thread entitled "From Beginning to No More than Chapter 5" or something like that?

As I mull this over, I realize that if we'd been talking about The Circle while I was reading it, I would have had a much different reading experience. I found the book frightening. If I'd read quite a few comments from others finding it unbelievable, or not at all frightening, that would have changed my reaction. Hmm...I don't think I want that.

But I would have loved having a place to go and vent things mid-way through such as, "Mae just doesn't get it!" and be able to read someone respond something like, "Yes! Why doesn't she use her brain!"

So, I don't know, but those are my thoughts on it.

>21 timspalding: I was thinking of more targeted discussions about the issues, like online privacy etc. "How much sharing do you feel comfortable with online", "where do you think online privacy is headed", that sort of thing.

I would argue that all good discussion books should have some sort of issue worth discussing. Don't choose a book that you don't expect to foster discussion.

I would argue that all good discussion books should have some sort of issue worth discussing. Don't choose a book that you don't expect it to foster discussion.

So, for example, do you think we could choose the Hobbit or Pride and Prejudice? I just don't see the same issues-based discussion for such a book.

Don't choose a book that you don't expect to foster discussion.
Right. There are a ton of great books out there, but many of them don't lend themselves to involved discussion. We want to avoid the ones with just the superficial "what did you like/dislike" "what'd you think of the characters" "did you like the end" kind of questions. There has to be depth, things to give real thought to and have opinions on. Symbolism, underlying messages/views, how it relates to our world/the present/the future, why the author did this or didn't do that, how we relate to the characters/their decisions, and so forth.

My quibble would be that, with the right crowd in the right mood, aesthetics alone are enough for discussion. There is something deeply wrongheaded about turning novels into opinion pamphlets. (Surely that's one of the main problems of The Circle--that it's overly didactic.) But that sort of discussion is certainly harder, as not everyone reads with it in mind, and a lot of people react negatively to any discussion of taste or good and bad in art, on the grounds that all opinions are equally valid and disagreement is denial of that.

I've seen that a number of time on LibraryThing—you know "I hate the way the author…" "To each his own." (conversation dies)

If we stuck to books that strongly evoke contemporary issues, then users who were driven to contribute would come back and even draw conceptual lines between former discussions and this new title. I like that, and I think others would too. At the same time, we might keep in mind the users who didn't contribute due to their own tastes, choosing something that rests between literary classic and polemic, perhaps a classic in the realm of satire.

There are books of all types, every genre and style, which are written in ways that can foster involved discussion. We are certainly not limited by that.

Yeah, I suspect that The Hobbit would not be the greatest choice. I'm unsure about Pride and Prejudice; I can imagine heated debate about the literary value of romance novels, for example. It's been too long since I read the actual book, but there could also be discussion about the historical context. The tricky part there is that it would require more informed input from people who were familiar with the period to get things started, so it depends how much groundwork you want to lay.

If we’re going to choose classics now and again, I’d rather go for a more obscure work. Sure, P&P and Dracula are popular, but I think other titles are similarly available and might be more interesting because of their obscurity. For example, Wilkie Collins’s most popular books The Woman in White and The Moonstone are fun, but after reading The Legacy of Cain and The Black Robe, I found a side of Collins’s work that doesn’t play much in the most popular works – that he’s deliberately exploring a concept or social convention and picking it apart. Seems to me those books would elicit a wider discussion platform than the merely popular. Most obviously why they didn't become popular. Plus I think it’s fun to dig into an author’s work aside from what made them famous. Like Shelley’s The Last Man or Dumas’s The Black Tulip.

Except "obscure" means not widely available. If the requirement to participate is to go buy a new copy of a book, many of us will never be able to participate. Most of the titles have to be widespread enough to find in most libraries or at least cheap 2ndhand copies/the supercheap Wordsworth editions. As much as I'd like to be able to read any book in existence, I (and many others) don't have the pockets deep enough to go out buying new books just for a group read that I want to join in. And those of us with smaller libraries will not be able to find authors' more obscure works in them, either.

I'd also argue that we should avoid books that are generally considered bad (this 3.31 rating)....

oy.
I think this is just too much for people. All this crying about not getting books and not reading new books or not reading old books or not reading free books or not reading good books or my library this and it's too hard that. It's impossible to please everyone. I bow out and will read if convenient but this infinite back and forth is just draining the fun out of it.
ta.

It’s too bad that discussion is winding down, since it’s seeming that quite a few people who want(ed) to participate haven’t yet acquired the book. (I’m not complaining; I realize this is a lesson learned, and I don’t disagree with the decision to just get started.) I didn’t so much run out of things to say, as run out of time to read comments and compose responses, especially if they’ll just be sitting there in dead space. It’d be nice if LT staff would keep an eye out for a second wind and chime in to keep the conversation alive.

The only non-spoiler thread for The Circle was “first impressions”, which was fine for awhile, but it appeared a month before the official discussion, so people who were ready with first impressions when that thread was fresh, were generally done with the book and waiting for weeks before other threads appeared. So maybe some targeted while-you’re-reading threads, not just one generic non-spoiler thread.

I thought The Circle was a sub-mediocre novel about issues worth discussing, so I liked that the thread questions covered both aspects.

32: I'd also argue that we should avoid books that are generally considered bad (this 3.31 rating)
This is the average rating for The Circle, but there are many ratings at both extremes, which is a useful topic of discussion.

>33 Bookmarque: Actually, there are pretty easy numerical checks for all of those criteria. It would be trivial to say that we're looking for a book published at least 6(12?) months ago, with at least 500(1000?) members and a rating of 3.8(4)?

I'm not claiming that we can find a perfect book that will exist in every library and be loved by anyone. But it's certainly not hard to improve the odds.

I've not participated (couldn't borrow the book & wasn't prepared to buy it) and can't claim to have read all the threads.
BUT:
It does seem to have provoked some interesting and wide ranging discussion. I'm not sure that the first thread worked by being open for so long. Maybe a parallel non-spoiler "I'm this far" type thread could run along side a "just got to chapter 6 - wasn't expecting that" type thread. Or possibly a group of threads, dividing the book into 3/4 sections, so that it doesn't get too spoilesque. That could all happen ahead of the formal, structured discussion starting.

I'd agree that it would be nice if the book selected was more widely available, making it more accessible to a wider selection of LT users. However, you're never going to be able to make sure that every user can access every book selected, but the odds of that happening could be increased. Maybe if it is out in paperback, that would increase the probability of the book being available to a higher proportion of users.

And I realise I might be alone here, but I don't think that having the LT staff pick the books is necessarily the wrong decision either. They seem to have put in time and effort on the discussion threads, maybe they ought to have a certain say in what's selected. A democratic process gets awfully messy, what with the way votes are configured as yeas/no/maybe, rather than a vote for a book from a list.

So, yes, interested, but it will always depend on what's selected.

A democratic process gets awfully messy, what with the way votes are configured as yeas/no/maybe, rather than a vote for a book from a list.

I just have to take this opportunity to say that it would be nice to have polls that allowed different options ;)

37: I just have to take this opportunity to say that it would be nice to have polls that allowed different options ;)
Yes.

35: Using the Zeitgeist for Top Rated books, the top five books for the criteria you mentioned (using 500 owners) would be:

The Complete Calvin and Hobbes
Absolute Sandman Volume 4
Oxford English Dictionary {Compact Edition}
Complete Far Side
Second Treasury or Knitting Patterns

Snort.

>39 aulsmith: What a great Book Club that list would sustain!

>39 aulsmith: I've always been disappointed that that list doesn't extend longer, to go beyond the very narrowly-focused top 25. Would it really be so processor-intensive to show 1000?

Anyway, your interpretation arbitrarily favoured one criterion over the rest (highest possible rating that meets the minimum cut-off number of members). You could equally look for the one with the highest possible number of members that at least has the minimum 3.8 rating. Or the one that was published closest to 6 months/1 year ago.

Or you could look for a balance of the different factors, and just make sure it meets the minimum for each.

It's the difference between "I'll only buy a house that meets basic standards for structural integrity" and "Obviously I should live in a bomb shelter".

Another problem with the criteria mentioned in post #35 is that it would decrease the number of people who haven't already read the book.

Maybe if award winners are chosen (Pulitzer, Orange, etc.) there is a higher chance they would still be found in libraries. If they come from 7 years or more ago, it would be more likely that not many have read it or might be up for a reread.

My last point: I am a well known denizen of my libraries, FOL book sales, and used book stores but I feel it is important to support authors by buying first run books. Otherwise, our supply in the aforementioned locales will dwindle. I have come to appreciate my ereader and watch for the daily sales. I guess I'm lucky that I can afford to buy a real book once in a while especially for a special occasion like an LT read.

Another problem with the criteria mentioned in post #35 is that it would decrease the number of people who haven't already read the book.

That's interesting. Is that a problem? I'd actually see it as a good thing, because it would mean more people could participate in the discussion even if they didn't have time to (re-)read the book in the limited time period.

>45 _Zoe_: It could be good or bad. Not everyone enjoys rereading when they have long lists of things they still want to read. So if it's still fresh enough in their memory they could partake of the discussions, but if it's been a long time, they may still not be inclined to reread but not remember enough to really offer much in the way of comments about it. I do think it'd still be better than not-readily-accessible books, though.

>45 _Zoe_: I think part of the joy of "One LibraryThing, One Book" is the sense that a large group of people are reading the same book at the same time. Discussing a book that many people have read previously would diminish that a bit. And I know that personally I am less interested in joining a discussion about a book if I've already had a discussion about it previously, whether in school or here on LT or among friends elsewhere.

As a general feedback comment, I’m happy to have taken part in the many fun, overlapping conversations going on in the One LibraryThing, One Book. I had no trouble getting this book from the library, but I recognize that this can vary a lot by the size of your town’s population. Since this was a 21st century book, why don’t we move back a century and choose something from the 20th century. A bit older, but not necessarily classic. At any rate, whoever selects it, I’ll likely take part in the next one.

> 20 Yes, in addition to an early first impressions thread, if a book has clearly marked chapters, I’d recommend a couple of non-spoiler lines (ch. 1-3 events only, ch. 1-6 events only, ch. 1-9 events only, etc.) that can be going on simultaneously, so latecomers can still play a part there, before they move on to other threads.

42: You could equally look for the one with the highest possible number of members that at least has the minimum 3.8 rating.

I didn't check, but I assumed from a quick glance at Top LT books, that the results would be something like:

Harry Potter 1
Harry Potter 2
The Hobbit
Harry Potter 3
Harry Potter 4
Lord of the Rings
Harry Potter 5
Twilight

And someone had already indicated that they didn't want to read The Hobbit ;)

Edited to correct HTML

I'd actually rather that Tim and the LT staff continue to select the book.

I prefer the grousing over the decision they make to the grousing over how everyone gets appropriate input into selecting a book.

>50 aulsmith: Yeah. I was not trying to suggest that as the best course of action—see #43 :)

The more diverse the choice of books are going forward will, I think, increase involvement. Perhaps not more readers/participants per book, but different readers will be involved.

If we stick to just contemporary issues then I would expect the same people...and eventually the same conversations...every time. If you were to choose a book on football history I might skip that one but someone else that wasn't interested in The Circle would be thrilled to discuss how football has evolved over the years and how it has impacted society and the legitimacy of American football vs. soccer football. And if on the next round we were to read a pop science book then we would probably attract even different readers. Sure there will be LTers interested in both football and pop science but it probably wouldn't be the exact same members and over time as different people get sucked in to different genres and awareness of the program grows - success breeds success.

I also like the idea of the LT staff picking the books.

Personally, I am probably most likely to participate when the upcoming book is on my TBR list. Maybe looking at books tagged or in TBR collections might be a good place pick some of the future books?

I like the idea of the staff picking a few (3 or so?) books for us to chose from because that might eliminate ones that people are not interested in for whatever reason, but if LT chooses the book, that is fine with me, too. I just think all of us nominating and then voting would get pretty ungainly.

(Yes, I know my grammar sucks.)

>40 timspalding:

You laugh, but I think you'll find that Walker's Second Treasury of Knitting Patters both expands on and calls into question the themes and motivations of her First Treasury. Taken together, they are an incisive and disturbing commentary on knitting as oeuvre and its relationship to the authenticity of the self.

>55 Katya0133:

Well, of course. But everyone knows that!

I participate on a very few LT groups, and I wish I had "known" more of the participants from previous groups. I wasn't always sure why some people were pushing certain points or whether I was offending them or what.

I got a few interesting insights about the book, but felt a lot of folks here really wanted to get on a soapbox about this book. (Eggers seems to be a lightning rod for critics, see Gawker's Tom Scocca on Smarm:
http://gawker.com/on-smarm-1476594977)

Still better than the "live" book club I used to belong to where half the people would show up without having read the book, ban everyone from revealing the ending, and proceed to co-opt the discussion with pictures of their grandchildren. Nothing wrong with grandchildren, but don't we have book clubs to get away from them once in awhile?

FWIW, I collect "vintage" knitting patterns, and there's plenty of social and cultural information that might be gleaned from these documents. (The post-World War II era UK patterns alone offer an interesting look at how people were trying to keep their spirits up during a time of great material scarcity.) But I realize we hard-core historical textile enthusiasts are kind of thin on the ground ...

See, I'm over 60 and my posts are WAY too long for this type of medium.

I look at it like this: since I'm not in college almost all of my reading consists of reading what --I--choose. And I like that a whole lot.

But this book club is an excellent opportunity for me to get out of my reading comfort zone. I feel a little smarter than before I read The Circle, mostly because of the stimulation of the conversation. I feel a little less tucked into my personal-world shell.

None of that would have happened for me if I hadn't decided to join the club, read the book that I would not have personally chosen, and partake in the conversation. I was shaking with nervousness the first official night of the discussion. My fingers were icy cold and I felt like the biggest idiot in the world, worried that I didn't know what to do to be in the discussion. Then I got worried I was in the wrong place and was missing everything! Lol!

Now, I've just happily joined the ROOT 2014 and TBR groups. Wow! I'm having fun!

One Library Thing, One Book is good. It's set up just fine. It's got many good people with differing ways of thinking in it and it will get more as shy people like me realize it's fun to be here talking about a book we all just read. Different people will come for different books and we'll hear new ways of thinking each time. I'm glad I'm here.

#57, I agree with this: "I wish I had "known" more of the participants from previous groups. I wasn't always sure why some people were pushing certain points or whether I was offending them or what.

I felt like because there wasn't necessarily a lot in common with the participants (or even a knowledge of where the other person was coming from), the conversation wasn't quite as meaningful as it could have been. Sometimes I felt like I was the only one who liked technology (Facebook, email, cell phones) at all, when I would read many other participants' comments.

It's not that I couldn't engage with those people, or share my viewpoint that differed from theirs. It just felt like we were sometimes talking past each other, like if I wanted to discuss a way to use technology while protecting privacy, I had a feeling others more wanted to dismiss the technology altogether.

>59 Kira: Sometimes I felt like I was the only one who liked technology (Facebook, email, cell phones) at all, when I would read many other participants' comments.
I think those were just the more vocal people. Negative reactions tend to make people more vocal than positive ones. I certainly don't have any problems with technology, but I tend to be more of an observer in discussions like this than a participant.

I don't think it is a matter of disliking technology as much as it is not wanting people to let technology take over their lives. Keeping in touch by cell phone, having help at your fingertips, reuniting with long-lost friends - that is all great. Not talking to the people you are dining with because you are texting someone or playing a game - that is detrimental, IMO.

(BTW, I worked in a highly technical field for almost all my working life and I am grateful to technology and its constant need for improvement.)

I don't think it is a matter of disliking technology as much as it is not wanting people to let technology take over their lives.

So much this. If I had a problem with technology, I couldn't exactly be using a computer, browsing on the internet, posting on LT, could I? I have a problem with the extent that people are allowing it to take over everything and their lack of problem with dumping all their personal information into the ether of the internet from which there is no getting it back.

Thinking about how this project stacks up against "live" community reads: Some years ago How the Garcia Girls Lost Their Accents was selected in our area by library patrons. I recall that the book was good, but the food--we have a large Hispanic population--was even better.

Sadly, the flan and empanadas would be impossible for a cyber-community, but might be interesting to invite three or four experts to offer reflective essays about different aspects of the book and to let people respond. For example, an expert on dystopian lit and an exec at a social media company might have been interesting "hosts" at this particular read. Maybe even have the LT staff do a panel discussion on YouTube and let people watch and discuss?

and an exec at a social media company might have been interesting "hosts" at this particular read

We had the C-E-O! ;)

#57, #59> I agree with this: "I wish I had "known" more of the participants from previous groups. I wasn't always sure why some people were pushing certain points or whether I was offending them or what."

I don't understand this sentiment. Knowing the background of someone changes your understanding of what they're saying? Could you explain?

@ 64: I really am not in the LT "in crowd," I guess; I don't know who the CEO was. My point was that having a social media exec talk about the book from his/her perspective would be interesting. That's all.

@65: Does the notion that knowing something about someone's literary tastes and general attitudes facilitates understanding really have to be explained to you?

>32 _Zoe_: I'm involved in a mystery reading group (via Yahoo) and the books that lead to the best discussions have an unusually high standard deviations - the bigger the spread, the more spirited the discussion, it seems. Usually, though, they are books that aren't "bad" - meaning sub-par style, goofy plotting, stock characters etc. They are books that work really well for some and push other people's buttons. Books that everyone loves tend to generate less heat, so less involvement in discussion (though possibly more pleasure in reading).

63, 65, 66:

Whoa folks, let's stay cool.

I think someone's background could be part of the discussion. Someone might say "I hate X. They are always trying to take over the world. It drives me nuts! Just look at the example from article Y that appeared on the Huffington Post yesterday!" A legitimate question would be, "yeah, but why do you think that means that ALL of them are bad?" The answer: " I worked in this field for 20 years before quitting to find peace of mind."

Not knowing someone's background could be but doesn't have to be a barrier to a good discussion.

May you be peaceful, may you be happy...

To respond to the original question - this was a success for me. I'm not a habitual user of LT groups and the linear posting structure and conventions for referring back to peope's comments takes a little getting used to, as any social medium does. I also had to dive in when I had a minute, and those minutes were infrequent, which made me wish I could be more involved and have more time to think about what I might post and how to respond to others' posts.

Having been involved for some years with online discussions elsewhere, I'm really intrigued by the ways group members negotiate disagreement and on the whole I'd say this was a great discussion - thoughtful, opinionated, not reluctant to disagree, but also cordial. There is an art to disagreeing, often strongly, with one another in a way that doesn't attack the person who holds a different opinion. I think that worked pretty well here and may be the product of other participants being more active in this community than I am.

It also helped that I had already decided that I wanted to read this book and (as a librarian at an academic library who had already ordered it for our browsing collection) I only had one person in line ahead of me. I enjoyed it enough that I ended up buying two copies for Christmas gifts. (Wait, does that need a spoiler alert? Nah, I don't they're reading this.) I like the fact that online nobody knows you didn't read the book - or rather, that you can join a book discussion when you want to but the discussion doesn't fall apart if you don't, which is problematic with face-to-face groups. This also helps with the availability issue - if you can't get your hands on it for whatever reason, there will be other people who do and other chances to participate.

As for process, we could, I suppose, put out a call books to discuss and then have a way of commenting on and narrowing down the options and finally a vote. Or we could keep it simple and let the LT crew decide. Makes it easier to bitch about choices :) as someone pointed out above. But it wouldn't be too difficult to have a thread where people at least propose books that they think would work well.

Having been involved also with one book discussion choices on a college campus, this can get really fraught. It becomes a big deal to choose the right book, and there isn't any book that really makes that many people happy. It puts an unfair burden on the book and the selectors and kind of defeats the purpose. Let's not do that :)

67: You give a good example of how "knowing" people instead of talking to people in the cyber-dark without any cues whatever about how they might respond to things facilitates communication.

In "real" life, I teach, and I am constantly "reading" my students' faces and body language for understanding, engagement, and response to my own presentation. And I'm older and more used to live communication, so perhaps it's more frustrating for me than many others not to have that visual info.

In any case, I thought my response was more tart than not "cool."

Peaceful happy ho-ho-ho's back atcha.

>66 nohrt4me2: you asked: Does the notion that knowing something about someone's literary tastes and general attitudes facilitates understanding really have to be explained to you?

It does, that's why I was asking.

Let me ask a different question, also stemming from the comment:
"I wasn't always sure why some people were pushing certain points or whether I was offending them or what."

What would be the reason for not asking for clarifications of their points, or whether you were offending them?

What would be the reason for continuing to question me about my answer unless you're hoping to lead me to some admission of stupidity or short-sightedness?

So, OK, here ya go: Yes, of course I could (and sometimes do) ask questions asking for clarification, but these sometimes lead to distracting and irritating tangents from the main topic at hand.

I could also go look at someone's profile page and try to trick out what they're about. But I don't always have that kind of time, and sometimes the profile pages offer no hints (yours, for instance).

So I find it more comfortable to communicate with smaller groups of people on line with whom I have some history, and that's all I meant by my question.

It was important to me to be a part of the group and read the book. I got The Circle from the library and read it but the format of using message boards to discuss things when I am coming in late just ends up being too much of a deluge of posts to read. Now, I would like to make a point next time to read the book and hopefully be ready and waiting on my computer. If I am in at the beginning then I am able to take part, or at least I hope that to be true. In any case, I am glad that I went and read something that I wouldn't have normally read.

>73 jeshakespeare:
I read it ahead and was ready to discuss from the start but I still found the deluge of posts too much. There are whole threads that I never read because they got too big before I had a chance to log on (time difference, the discussions started late at night here). who knows if I'll manage to find the time! It's rather ironic given the feed Mae had to respond to every day.