So heres a question

Who thinks Galad can Channel?

I really do wonder about this sometimes. Galad is the son of Tigraine and Taringail Damodred. Half Brother of both Rand and Elayne, both of whom can channel extremely strongly. He is also the nephew of Moiraine(Taringail was her half brother or something like that). So hes got the family connections, with channelers. I doubt hes ever gong to test considering hes a whitecloak, but an interesting question. The Sharans believe that channeling is heriditary, the way the channelers are kept seperate and have to marry amongst themselves. We know of Adeleas and Vandene in the Tower, and among the Aiel, Aviendha and Amys are related. And consider the Two Rivers motherload of channelers Verin and Alanna found. The Two Rivres is a very very isolated area, so Im sure people share bloodlines not too far back. Considering all this its possible there might be a link between the ability to channel and your bloodlines.

Any thoughts?

Galad? interesting thought. I won't bet either way.

I think some of the Aes Sedai think they are breeding out the ability to channel from the kindoms because they themselves are not reproducing.

Never thought about it, but if he is able to channel, he's probably one who could be taught to channel, not one who's ever going to manifest it on his own.

although it would be a very interesting coincidence if all of a sudden he started to channel. channeling is hereditary, but it's the undominant trait, can't think of the word, which explains why so few people have it. the women aren't having kids, and they are killing all the men. of course they're culling the trait. and the Seanchan aren't helping in the slightest. Shara's custom is at least going to keep the trait alive, though, at least until that culture dies. and the Aiel.

I dont really buy the culling theory. I think it was Sheriam who believed they are culling the ability to channel out of the population and I think shes been proved wrong.

Lets look at the women first. There were a 1000 Aes Sedai when the series starts. At the time there were some 40 novices and 40 accepted. But at the time Aes Sedai did not go looking for girls who can channel, like the Aiel or the Seanchan do. As soon as they start the numbers of Novices that come in are huge. 'More than at any time since the Trolloc Wars' I think is the phrase used. Most of these are women found on the Salidar Aes Sedais route, i.e. Northern Altara, Murandy, and than on the outskirts of Tar Valon. The remainder come from the Two Rivers, and whoever else approaches the Aes Sedai. No one has searched anywhere else, and to me that suggests vast numbers of women who can channel havent been found. Lets add in the 2000 or so kinswomen in RandLand as well. So thats 1000 Aes Sedai, 2000 kinswomen, and the large though unspecified number of new novices.

Now lets consider the numbers of channelers among the Aiel. We know the Shaido have about 500 channelers in Malden and all the Shaido are on this side of the Dragonwall. There are 12 more clans, and I think I remember reading that the Shaido are among the largest of the clans. So lets say all said there are approx. 6000 Aiel women who can channel, and they definitely have not been culled as Aiel wise ones have children.

When we compare the 2 numbers I think it indicates that Sheriam is wrong.

Now the Men. The ability to chanel is rare. Even in the AOL we see this during the History of the Aiel sequences. Rands ancestor is happy to be chosen as a singer, rather than an Aes Sedai or a soldier. There are 1000 Asha'man, since Rand announced his amnesty. Of these as far as we have been told there are 4 men who had the spark. Rand, Logain, Taim, and Narishma. Thats 4 out of 1000 with the spark, a miniscule proportion. No reason why the ratio should be much higher through time. I believe if anything has been culled, its this small portion of men who have the spark born in them.

1, 4 & 5:
I haven't thought this through as well you. My impression was that between the Dragonwall and the western ocean the vast majority of people able to channel either kept the talent hidden, or didn't know they had it. Starting the Asha'men was Rand's way of mining some of this hidden wealth of the OP. I'm not sure how the OP runs through bloodlines, but, unless specifically stated (or hinted) it becomes very difficult to evaluate for any region. It all depends on how scared people are of the ability and how thoroughly the areas have been searched out.

With the Aiel and the Sea Folk this ability is treasured in women, so everyone who can be found to channel is likely used. (The OP making men crazy must have been universal. So, men are everywhere in the same boat.). With the Seanchan, the ability is bad news again. So, I presume the ability is usually kept hidden and a lot of unused talent will be found there as well. There have been quite a few hints of finding the spark in Seanchan when such a discovery is inconvenient

I have one problem with Doshiamit's argument. I always assumed the Aiel population was pretty low, much lower then on the other side of the dragonwall. If this is correct, then 6000 Aiel vs. 3000 in a much larger population east of dragonwall implies there is something missing in the West -- either culling of the OP or lots of hidden talents.

I totally can't help myself; I've been thinking about this in straight-up genetic terms.

If we assume channeling is a one-gene trait (to keep it simple). Being able to channel is co-dominant... if you have two of the non-channelling alleles (cc), you're regular, if you have one copy of the channelling and one of the non-channelling (Cc), you can be taught but won't manifest on you're own (so on the surface you appear normal, and if you have two copies of the channelling allele (CC), you'll be born with the spark.

The "purging" being done by killing men who can channel and by Aes Sedai not having kids is going to only really affect the CC individuals. A basic principle of population genetics is that it's really hard to eliminate a recessive allele from the population.... it can "hide" in the heterozygous (Cc) individuals, who appear no different from normal.

The purging would make being born with the spark more rare in the population, since if two "carriers" have a baby, only 1/4 of the time will it get the C allele from both its mom and its dad and wind up as a CC (under normal probability laws... you throw some ta'veren in the mix, and who knows :). If "carriers" (Cc) are rare(ish) in the population to start with, CC babies will be very rare. Local pockets of interbreeding carriers would result in high levels of channelers and carriers coming from the same place (i.e. the Two Rivers).

So, what I'm saying is that it's entirely plausible that channelling is genetic, and that the "culling" has had some effect, but would take a very, very long time to completely eliminate it from the population.

Okay, I feel like a giant, giant nerd now.

Oh, also, #6, re: the Seanchan, I don't think there's a lot of untapped channelling ability there - I remember them mentioning that there were yearly(?) tests to determine if girls were able to become sul'dam, so that would pick up most if not all of those who could learn to channel.

#7
Okay, I feel like a giant, giant nerd
:-) Jordan brings out the best in us. Your post is quite interesting, which must make me a nerd too.

the Seanchan, I don't think there's a lot of untapped channelling ability there - I remember them mentioning that there were yearly(?) tests to determine if girls were able to become sul'dam, so that would pick up most if not all of those who could learn to channel.

I think something must be wrong with those tests, becasue they are missing some women. How many are they missing?

@6I agree that the Aiel population is relatively low. But than the vast vast vast majority of Randland has not been tested in the thorough way the Aiel have. We got 3000 people just from Aes Sedai, the girls who make their way to the tower, the kin, and the girls from the two rivers, northern altara, and murandy.

7 So am I correct that based on genetic theory as youve outlined, Galad can almost definitely learn to channel but has only a 25% chance of having the spark in born. I say this as given that Rand and Elayne can both channel, both of their parents were carriers, so Tigraine, and Taringail, Galads partent were carriers.

8 Why do you think the Seanchan are missing anyone? I was under the impression they got everyone(at least female), either as Damane or Suldam. Maybe those of The Blood arent tested cause, based on Tuon submitting herself for the test of Suldam, but as hyperorganised as the Seanchan are I think they get everyone.

>9 doshiamit: Right. Based on the one-gene theory, then Galad is 25% likely to be an inborn channeler (I still don't think he is, since he's older than Rand by a few years, shouldn't he have started manifesting already?), 50% likely to be able to be taught, and 25% likely to be a non-channeller.

9: Why do you think the Seanchan are missing anyone? I was under the impression they got everyone(at least female), either as Damane or Suldam.

Apologies, forget my comment about the Seanchan. I was rethinking this after reading the comments above and realized the my examples were all Sul'dam (who don't realize they can channel) not random Seanchan.

.... hope this wasn't a thread killer...

alright, so i cheated in finding out that channeling is genetic. i bought a copy of The World of Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time. it specifically states that channeling is genetic, but it's the recessive(that's the word!)gene.

#8: maybe the ones that they missed were late bloomers, of sorts. they just began to have the ability after the tests. oh, sorry, now i read the last message. i guess i was thinking of Tuon.