Book by book - The Eye of the World

I've decided to re-read the series (slowly and in between other things), and I thought it would be good to post threads for brief summaries, but mostly for thoughts, questions, details other people might not have noticed, etc.

So... Brief summary: Trollocs attack Emond's Field. Rand, Mat, Perrin, Egwene, and Nynaeve leave in the company of Moiraine and Lan, and Thom Merrillin. They are pursued by Trollocs until they enter Shadar Logoth. They get split up as the flee the city. Perrin and Egwene find each other, meet up with Elyas and then the Travelling People, and then are captured by Whitecloaks. Moiraine, Lan, and Nynaeve track and rescue them. Rand, Mat, and Thom get passage to Whitebridge on Bayle Domon's ship. In Whitebridge, Thom takes on a Fade and Rand and Mat flee. They travel to Camelyn while hounded by Darkfriends. Once in Camelyn, Mat sickens from his association with the Shadar Logoth dagger, while Rand goes to see Logaine and meets Gawyn, Elayne, Morgause, and Elaida. Once the Emond's Fielders are re-united, a decision is made to travel to the Eye of the World, in the blight, where it is determined that the Dark One's next stroke will fall. They reach Fal Dara via the Ways, led by Loial. They travel into the Blight, find the Eye of the World and are accosted by two Forsaken. The Green Man kills Balthamael, while Rand unknowingly channels the One Power, confronts Ba'alzamon, and kills Aginor.

One detail I noticed this time that I didn't notice previous times was that when Moiraine is Healing Tam, Rand shivers. Ostensibly it's from the thought of the One Power, but we all know that he later learns to sense when saidar is being channeled by getting goosebumps. When I read that scene, my first thought was "oh, he can tell already!", but then Moiraine channels around him all the time for the rest of the book, and there's never another mention of him shivering. Was he really sensing channeling that one time, or did the thought of the One Power legitimately give him the (normal) shivers?

Another question I had... when Mat and Rand are locked in the basement of the inn by the Darkfriend, and Rand calls lightning down to set them free, he gets sick immediately afterwards - this is clearly supposed to be the result of the first time he touches the source. But at the end of the book, Moiraine tells him he used the power as they were leaving the Two Rivers... He was so concerned about Egwene getting left behind that he healed Bela without knowing it. Shouldn't he have gotten sick after that? Or was that somehow not enough power to "count" and make him sick?

Just some thoughts. I'd love to hear your theories, as well as any other details you've picked up from the books.

An excellent idea to reread and discuss at the same time. I will start with the EOTW over the weekend, and lets write the stuff we percieve, catch, that we missed earlier as we go along.

Im excited about this, and hope some of theother people in the group join us.

Good idea. Count me in!
Haven't re-read the series in a long time.
Will try and keep up and discuss.

One of the first things I noticed whilst re-reading EoTW is the amount of foreshadowing that occurs.
My fiance is reading the series for the first time and I 'm bouncing with excitement every time Mat says he would like to be in a battle, or Rand wakes up with a sore in his side from sleeping on Tam's sword.

Also: has anyone noticed that the Trollocs and Fades were bloody frightening in the beginning, but have lost all their fright powers later on?
It seems anyone can kill a Trolloc from about FoH and LoC.
I also miss Narg...

Fyrefly98: I believe Rand starts getting sick soon after he channels into Bela. Even in Baerleon he starts showing symptoms. Think of his confrontation withe the Whitecloaks.
He channels again and gets sicker. I believe that the theory is that you get sick with smaller intervals after channeling. The scene with the DF in the basement: he channels and becomes sick almost immediately. That means that he is getting closer to being able to channel at will.

MarcoGaidin - okay, I went back and re-(re-re-)read that section, and I that makes sense.

From Moiraine explaining it to Nynaeve: "You felt nothing special at the time, but a week or ten days later you had your first reaction to touching the True Source. Perhaps fever and chills that came on suddenly and put you to bed, then disappeared after only a few hours. None of the reactions, and they vary, lasts more than a few hours. Headaches and numbness and exhilaration all mixed together, and you taking foolish chances or acting giddy. A spell of dizziness, when you tripped and stumbled whenever you tried to move, when you could not say a sentence without your tongue mangling half the words. ... Each time, the reaction comes closer to the actual touching of the Source, until the two happen almost together. After that there are no more reactions that can be seen, but it is as if a clock has begun ticking."

So, if it works the same for men, Rand's confrontation with the whitecloaks in Baerlon is probably a result of his channelling into Bela, and by the time he gets to the basement/lightning, he gets sick right away. OH! What about when he's on the Spray goofing around at the top of the mast? That seems like more of the same, but when did he channel to set that reaction off? At Shadar Logoth? I can't think of a particular incident there that seemed like it had to be channeling.

About the Trollocs - I think they're scarier in the beginning because they're still so foreign. As you see more and more of them, and encounter more and more horrible things (Dragkhar, Forsaken, Gholam, Darkhounds), the trollocs start just looking like dumb foot soldiers, even if they are horrific and deformed. In my opinion, though, there's still very little that's as scary as that first Fade tracking Rand on the road in the Westwood. It's such a creepy scene!

Yeah, I reckon that his behaviour on the Spray was due to their flight from Shadar Logoth.
When Rand lands on the deck he trips over a sailor. A trolloc tries to impale hime, but out of 'nowhere' a boom swings loose and knocks the Trolloc off the boat.
That was the only way Rand could save himself.
Other than that I think the passage you quoted was pretty self explanatory.

Darkhounds and the Forsaken are much scarier than Trollocs. Fades are still the most imaginative villian/dark creatures that I have ever read about (although they show an uncanny resemblance to Ringwraiths as per LotR) and I agree with you that that first scene was bloody creepy.
I suppose the characters have gotten more powerful as well which would make them more likely to kill Shadowspawn easier.

One scene in the EotW that I would have liked to see expanded on was the fight between Thom and the Fade at Whitebridge.
I feel that would have been a nice scene to use.
Also - do we ever have a Thom POV? For the life of me I can't recall if we've ever been inside his head...

I don't think we've ever had a Thom POV... certainly not a whole chapter's worth.

My memory is kind of fuzzy on the Thom front, anyways, which brings up a question I'd thought of as I was re-reading... had Thom and Moiraine met before they meet in Emond's Field? That scene (and later dialogue between them) reads very differently if they're pretending to be strangers or if they actually are.

I think (and I know that I'll be called a heretic for this and will prob get flamed) that Thom would be the perfect "traitor" character if Jordan would ever go that far.
I know it probably won't happen, but it would be a flaming good twist. Especially because we've never been in one of the most influencial characters in the series head.

Anyway: Moiraine and Thom.
It wouldn't surprise me if they have met. Thom has always been named as one of the best players of Daes'daemar (sp) in the series. Moiraine is from the Cairhien court which is specifically known for it.
I'm assuming that Thom and Moiraine would perhaps have met at court gatherings between Andor and Cairhien?
I'm not sure how old Moiraine is though. But then Thom could have been a young court bard before Moiraine ever went of to the Tower.

Also, I wonder if Thom perhaps tried to see/follow/bring to justice the Red Sisters that killed Owen? That could have led them to each other.
Another thing that bothers me is that there is a love interest between them. How and why? In the first four books they barely speak to each other, never mind alone and from 5 onwards Moiraine is entertaining the Finns. So maybe it's an old love? Moiraine returns and bonds Thom adding a couple of years to his life?

Arb thought number 3: Morraine is a type of rock/stone/mineral: "the unstratified debris of rocks, gravel etc left behind by a melting glacier"
This leads me to deduce A: I have too much time on my hands, and B: the internet is filled with useless info.

Moirraine and Thom are unlikely to not at least know of each other even if they never have met. Moirraine becomes Aes Sedai just as Rand was born. The Amyrlin Seat and the various sitters of thet time wanted to put Moirraine on the Sun Throne(Part of the New Spring Plot). Thom was Morgases lover when Elayne wasa baby. Its extremely unlikely a Game of Houses Guru like himself would not have known of the Aes Sedai who the Tower wants to put on the Sun Throne. Throw in the (fairly well known amongst Aes Sedai) antagonism between Moirraine and Elaida, and Thoms own dislike of Elaida, he would most definitely know who she was, even if they had never met before. Similarly I doubt Moirraine didnt know who he was at least by reputation, Former Court Bard, lover of Morgase, and the important uncle of a man who could channel.

Im almost done with New Spring(Praise the Light!!!) and will start EOTW this weekend, and I'll keep an eye on Thom and Moirraines initial reactions to each other.

After a reread Im pretty sure Moiraine knew who Thom was before they met in the Two Rivers. She might have seen him performing before. When they first meet Moraine refers to Thom as 'Master Bard' a couple of times before he corrects her and says he is just a gleeman.

One thing that I have never understood: Why is it important that the Horn of Valere be taken to Illian?
At the end of EotW Moiraine tells the young'uns that the Horn must go to Illian. Pretty soon afterwards the Horn is stolen by Fain and Hurin and Rand find it again...but then it's taken to Tar Valon.
Does Illian have some specific value to it? We know it used to be one of the ten nations under the name Eharon and the only thing I can get on Eharon is that it was one of the least affected nations during the Trolloc wars.
Interestingly though: Mat's first memories came from Eharon, and he knows more of this city than any of the present Age cities...
Birgitte mentions that his accent while speaking the Old Tongue is often that of an Eharoni High Prince.
More foreshadowing on who will sound the Horn, or mere coincidence?

Hmmm, that's interesting.

I think I'd always assumed that the horn has to go to Illian because that's where the Hunt for the Horn starts, and actually is starting at about the same time as the events in EotW. But, thinking about it, that doesn't make a lot of sense as to why Moiraine wants the horn to go there... What was she planning to do, hold it up and say "Found it! You can all go home now!"? Or maybe use it to convince people that the Last Battle is coming, and galvanize them behind the Dragon Reborn? You're right, it's not clear at all.

About Mat's memories... they came from bits and pieces of other people who had been through the stone doorway, right? And the people who mostly went through that doorway were young male adventurers/soldiers, which would include a lot of Hunters for the Horn from previous Hunts, so maybe that's why he knows so much of Eharon/Illian, because all of the people who "donated" the memories had been there at least once? (Assuming, of course, that the Hunt always started from Eharon/Illian, which I don't know is true.)

Of course, that's probably just me rationalizing a basic coincidence. There's so much stuff in the books that it's possible to build a defense for any crazy theory you like, I've found.

I agree.
Someday we should start a thread with all the random theories we can think off. I believe it will take up a lot os space...
Anyway, I agree with you regarding the memories for Mat. It would explain a lot about why he has a lot of Eharon in his mind.
But that leads me back to the original question: Why Illian?
Why is Illian chosen as the place where the Hunt is called? Logically it would make more sense for it to be Tar Valon? I know people distrust and fear Aes Sedai, but come on...all that power and mystique and no one even thinks of calling the Hunt there?

Illian I feel must have some arb signifcance in the greater scheme. Note that Rand rules Illian, the only country where he was crowned/annointed/voted as the ruler. The rest was taken by force and he has given them up: Andor and Cairhien to Elayne and Tear to the nobleman (can't recall his name).

Perhaps my conspiracy theory mind is just working over time, but when one re-reads the series these little detals keep popping up more and more.
As to why Moiraine wanted it taken to Illian: Moiraine has shown remarkable skill at finding strange information. Note that in EoTW and tGH she finds out the Be'lal rules Tear and Sammael rules Illian. How? When?
It's not like they had a giant poster up proclaiming....?
Perhaps she knows something regarding Illian.

from Message 8: MarcoGaidin:
arb thought number 3: Morraine is a type of rock/stone/mineral: "the unstratified debris of rocks, gravel etc left behind by a melting glacier"
This leads me to deduce A: I have too much time on my hands, and B: the internet is filled with useless info.

hmm. That is quite interesting, except that definition doesn't really sound right for the character Morraine is. But that definition doesn't give the full picture of the geology. Glacial moraine is the rock and debris that was ground, jammed, broken and in every way shattered by the glacier as it cut into bedrock and bulldozed everything in it's path. While the glacier lives, the moraine is pushed ahead, and dragged along with it. The moraine is left as a pile of rubble once the glacier melts. So, maybe it's reference to the character Morraine getting pushed and dragged along by much larger, inexorable forces.

We once mentioned characters we most wanted to see die off. I'll reverse that. Morraine is the character I least wanted to see disappear. She is maybe the most interesting character, and, for the first several books, she was the string that tied them together. I'll be happy to see her reappear.

It could all be circumstancial and Jordan just liked the sound of the word, but after your expounding of the definition I have to say it fits in nicely with her character.
The one that gets thrown about and crushed in the inexorable move of the mighty.
Although I have a feeling Moiraine will re-appear stronger and more canny than previously.
I believe she will appear and seriously prod buttock.
For a start I think she'll whip that sheepherder back in line, throttle Elaida herself and quite probably get the Seanchan in line!

I agree with dchaikin: she was a great loss to the plot, though her influence has been great even though she hasn't been around for the last 6(?) books...
I suppose it is a standard plot for the wise teacher (think Gandalf) to dissapear and then reappear stronger and even wiser.

Rand DID get sick from healing Bela, it just took a few days. he got sick while he was on Domon's boat. it was there, but Jordan didn't really go into it.

and i'm pretty sure that we have been in Thom's head, when he discovers that Dena is dead, but i can't remember what book. The Dragon Reborn?

Weve been in Thoms head at least twice. Once when Denna died, and once when Moiraine comes to him asking him to go to Tanchico with Nynaeve and Elyane. In the second of those appearances, it pretty clear that Thoms loyal to Rand.

Bless you! I just discovered this thread, after bitching and moaning about how I was going to remember anything after a 2 and a half year gap since reading the last one. I am now rereading the book by book recaps. Thanks!!!!

Welcome bluenosegirl. Glad I pointed you here.

And, I second your Bless You! These discussions are fantastic. I'm looking forward to The Dragon Reborn post and to Arbitrary Thought 7.

Ha! Someone that actually reads my arbitrary thoughts!
Yeah, I still think this was a good idea and let's face it, when you start rereading these, it is clear that EoTW was one of the best in the series.

On another note: see www.encyclopaedia-wot.org for all your recap needs.

hey, i read your arb. thoughts! hahaha, sorry. anyway, i was kinda getting worried, no one said anything for a week.

ok, i have a question.
at the end, during the fight at the Eye, someone talks to Rand in all caps. could this be the Creator?

12/13 > Matt's Memories, I've always assumed that they were the memories Matt accrued in previous lives, not just random memories from other petitioners...

Interesting point liselle40.
"This has to end." A voice in his head says, "IT IS NOT HERE. I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL." Rand says, "Where?" The voice says, "NOT HERE."

This is a very arb passage.
Nowhere else in the books do we hear this voice again. The feeling is not of the DO or any of the Chosen. So yeah, I suppose it could be the Creator.
Could it be anyone/thing else?
LTT perhaps for his first appearance?
The 'third man' phenomenon that appears later in the book?

My conspiracy theory mind is pumping overtime on this one.

This is one of the big mysteries isnt it? Not just the content of the message but the context. I think this happens at Tarwins Gap, when Rand destroys the Shadowspawn who are fighting the forces of Fal Dara. I dont have the books with me and I cant remember exactly when this happens, but its in the sequence after Aginor burns himself out and I'm fairly sure its before Rand fights Ishmael.

I think the words refer to the Last Battle. Rand says it has to end, and the rest is in reply to that.

Another interesting thing is he is called "the chosen one" instead of the Dragon. I think this is cause he hasnt decalred himself the Dragon yet, he doesnt do that till the end of Book2.

The all capitals are interesting too. I remember hearing on the 4th age podcast, when they were discussing this, a while back that only the Dark One speaks in Capital letters in the rest of the books.

Another point is that Rands able to destroy tens of thousands trollocs, when hes consciously channeling for the first time. A pretty common theory is Lews Therins been helping Rand to do stuff unconsciously.

So there are a lot of threads here to support pretty much any interpretation, i.e. Lews Therin, the Creator, the third man, or the dark one. I agree its probably not any of the forsaken that have anything to do with this voice. Only 3 are free so far as we know and 2 are dead.

Im guessing its the soul of the Dragon. The soul that hasnt completely settled in to Rand as yet cause he has not declared himself Dragon Reborn, but in channeling the pure essence of Saidin at the eye of the World in such a huge quantity, he woke that soul up as it were. Make sense?

makes sense.

now i have another question, that maybe doesn't go with this thread, but as MarcoGaiden brought it up, who is the third man? my thoughts are that he's another Dragon, from before Lews Therin, and doesn't the DO say at the end of tGH(i think)that they've fought countless times before?

I agree the 3rd Man is the Dragon before Lews Therin.

I did the reread and Ive got to say that I noticed one thing a lot more than I ever did before, and thats Rand being surprised by his thoughts. It happens more than once in the book, and it completely escaped me prior to this. So maybe theres a hint of something to come in there. I didnt find anything else that I thought could relate to the voice at the end.

I did go off on a tangent from a couple of things.
1. Nobody but Tam, left the Two Rivers in years and years(i dont think its specified, but i got the impression), but yet somehow Morgase has heard the sound of the Two Rivers speech. Could Morgase and Tam have met before?

2. Can the Dragon Reborn exert power over the dead? Rands mother gets caught up by Ishmael in the end. Nynaeve and Egwene disappear as soon as Rand denies Balzamon, Kari stays on. That plus the fact that the DOs power over the dead keeps being reiterated leads me to believe that she was in the DO's power. But when Rand beats Ishmael, he hears a Thank You. Does that mean that he has some sort of power over the dead? Can he free them from the DOs clutches? And could that have anything to do with the resolution for all the ghosts that show up in the last few books.

28>
1. I thought Tam was the only one who left Edmond's Field, not the Two Rivers, also (I'm not as sure of this) didn't Morgase do some traveling around her country before becoming Queen? I thought it implied somewhere she'd been out that way.

I think , maybe people from Tarren Ferry left but not from the other three villages and we all know Tarren Ferry folk arent really Two Rivers Folk. I guess that its possible that Morgase travelled around, but if she had ever been to the Two Rivers, isnt it unlikely, that Rand Mat Perrin etc. would be so surprised at the fact that the Two Rivers is part of Andor. I mean the queen visiting, thats got to be a pretty big deal.

I don't think it is unlikely that Morgase would have been to the Two Rivers area before. As queen or as daughter-heir trying to gather support.

One thing that has always tickled my arb theory mind is: who is Min's aunts?
Three women living together that know of her gift and seem wise. Odd don't you think?

Hmm.. Mins Aunts...never thought about them much..doesnt she say they are seamstresses, which I think is a profession some of the Kin follow. But would members of the Kin be likely to allow Min to work as a tavern maid and a stable hand? They are interesting food for thought though.

Another thing Ive been wondering about in the EOTW... What exactly happens in terms of channeling with Rand at the end. After going through 11 books we know quite a bit about the mechanics of channeling, but a lot of what happens at the eye doesnt really seem to fit into what we know. Aginor I assume burns himself out trying to keep the Saidin away from Rand and pulling more to himself than he can handle. How does Rand reach Tarwins Gap to destroy the Trollocs? Does he travel? Doesnt seem to match up with later descriptions of how thats done. How does he Balzamon? Is he reading the pattern or what? Why have none of the good guys been able to do this since? How does Balzamon survive burnt? Are they in tel'ran'rhiod in the flesh during their fight or maybe Rands in the Fles and Balzamon isnt?

Anyway back to the critical issue of Morgase and Tam, which no one seems to be buying. So I guess no takers for my theory about how Gawyn is actually Tams illegitimate son conceived before Morgase married Taringail and Tam married Kari?:)

Whoo...
I find it hard to believe that Elayne and Gawyn would look so much alike with Tam being Gawyn's daddy.

Tam's description:
He has a thick chest, broad face, lined cheeks, mostly gray hair and is a head shorter than Rand. (TEotW,Ch1) He is a blocky man. His hair is now completely gray and he has more lines on his bluff face. (KoD,Ch29)

Morgase:
She has blue eyes and long red-gold curls. (TPoD,Ch7)

Gawyn:
He is a head taller and a little older than Elayne. He has the same reddish gold hair and oval face as his sister. (TEotW,Ch40)

Elayne:
She is tall for a girl and beautiful. Her face is a perfect oval framed by a mass of sunburst curls, her lips are full and red. Her eyes are bluer than Rand can believe. (TEotW,Ch40) She is about 5'6".

The descriptions seem to fix both the brother and sister with features that are a strong resemblence to their mother. We know Galad is dark haired and slender, but that could have been because of his mother. Remember Rand is tall and slender as well with a bit more bulk and red hair due to his Aiel father.

I find it hard to believe that Tam al'Thor would be their father it would place him with Morgase after she was married to Taringail and before Thom then.
Elayne remembers Thom so they were young when Taringail died.

Timeline is wrong mate.

Was just joking about the Tam being Gawyns dad part.

But the other part about Tam and Morgase having met before, I'm not conviced that isnt true.

Hmmm...I fell for that....juicy arb theory there doshi.

Tam:
Tam al'Thor leaves the Two Rivers as a boy and joins the army of Illian. He fights in the Whitecloak War (957 NE), two wars with Tear and the Aiel War (976 NE to 978 NE) rising in rank to Second Captain of the Companions and becoming a blademaster.

Morgase:
She looks about ten years older than Perrin does. She has blue eyes and long red-gold curls. (TPoD,Ch7)
At 14 she went to the White Tower. At 16 she claimed the throne and at 18 became Queen of Andor.
Perrin was born 978NE and is thus about 21-22. Gawyn is about 22-25 years old. The earliest he could be born is 975NE.
This would mean that Morgase is probably about 38. Married to Taringail at 18 and her youngest (Elayne) is 18 years old.

This means that circa 970NE-975NE Morgase was in the White Tower and busy with trying to solidify her position as Queen. The Aiel war started in 976NE.

At most I think she would have heard Tam speak at a meeting of generals or some such. I doubt they would have actively spoken or be more than ships passing in the night as it were.

I seriously enjoy research like this too much.

Okay, since there is already a thread, I'll just post it here.
I'm re-reading the book, I'm 149 pages in, and I noticed some things I didn't notice before.

The dream Rand has while he's sitting at his father's bed in the inn, who was the man in the scarlet cloak?
I know that the whole "serve me" voice he hears is the Dark One, was the man in the scarlet cloak a dream manifestation of the Dark One?
Or was it Ishamael the Forsaken (although I doubt that, as he was always shown in all black...), so if not the Forsaken who?

Another question, the coin that Moraine gives Rand, Mat, and Ewin.
Were Rand and Matt given different coin than Ewin?
That's what I think, but I'm not sure, as I know that we learn later Moraine did something to the coins she gave them so she could track them.

Im pretty sure its Ishmael in the dream. I remember, but cant recall from where, that Ishmaels cloak was a very dark blood red, so dark it looked black.

Regards the coin, I think its clear that its a different coin when Mat and Rand tell Ewin that they thought Moirraine gave him the coin to spend as he pleased.

Thanks for explaining!
I noticed something that I found odd.
The chapters that deal with Rand and Mat fleeing Whitebridge really confused me.
It seemed to flash back and forth between different times (for instance, instead of writing in a chronological order, it flips back and forth...3 days after Whitebridge, then cut to a scene from the night they fled, and then 2 days, then back to 3 days after).
Did anyone else felt a bit disconcerted from reading it like that?
I always wondered why the author wrote those particular scenes like that.
It seems every time I read those chapters, I go, "huh?".LOL.

I believe it was mentioned in the WOTFAQ that it was in fact a flashback scene.

http://www.darkfriends.net/wheel/2_nondark/2.7_generalities/2.7.7_scarves.html

Check out the link. Hopefully that'll clear it up.
Confused me too.

Thanks, so it appears I'm not the only one that gets confused.LOL.
I finished the book.
The Eye of the World was meant to keep safe what was hidden under the pool right?
That's my guess anyways, as it seems Moiraine was wrong (and I think she admits it too), when she thought the Eye was supposed to be instrumental against the Dark One.
The true purpose was to safeguard the Horn and one of the seven seals of the Dark One's prison.

Oh, the battle between Rand and "B" (can't spell the name), was that in one of the dreams?
He comes to near the cliff with Aginor's ashes blowing all over him, so I always assumed he *killed* "B" in a dream....

Do you mean Balthamel? He was killed by Somestha, the Green Man.

Im not so sure Moirraine was wrong about the purpose of the Eye of the World. Its just a theory but I think the fact that Rand used up that huge pool of Saidin might come back and bite him on the ass in AMoL. Im thinking about the voice he heard when he was channeling Saidin from that pool. Rands had Lews Therin bopping around in his head, but I think that was a different voice, maybe the Creator, triggered by the pool of pure Saidin.

I'm not sure that I agree with you Doshi.
The reasoning behind that is that in the process Rand stopped a HUGE trolloc invasion force from coming into Randland.
Secondary to that they offed two Forsaken. Even though they were then later 'retrieved' by the DO.
I think that if Rand hadn't destroyed that force, he wouldn't have had the time to get where he is at the moment.

Also, on a more philosophical point: the CO talking to Rand might have eased him into believing that he is the DR and not a filthy tricksy male channeler set to destroy the world muhahahaha.

Saying that, you could be right and he could have used that pool of pure saidin later. Saidin is clear however (from all accounts) and Moirraine mentions that you only get to the EotW when you need it.

doshimait,
Oh, I meant the battle between Rand and Ishmael (or "B" as he calls himself, you know the Trolloc name for the Dark One).

I think you're right Marco.
If Rand hadn't destroyed the Dark One's forces, they would have over-run the army and a portion of the Borderlands would be part of the Blight eventually.
I remember the Lord of Fal Dara said something like, they knew they were going to lose but they'd fight anyway.
So there was a huge need to be there, and Rand used the pool of Saidin to strike a blow at the Dark One.
Defeating his army there, having 2 Forsaken killed, and one badly injured.

Oh, I forgot to add....Ishmael is always portrayed with "fires" coming out of his mouth and eyes and when Rand faced off with him at the end of this book, he notices a black thread attached to him.
Is this the True Power?
I know other Forsaken hesitated to use it because it had negative side effects, are the fires and perhaps Ishamel's "mad" behavior a symptom of using the True Power too much?
When Ishamel/Mordin (hope I spelled that right) used it, the black flecks that float across his eyes is an early sign of using it right?
I assume, eventually if he uses it enough in his new body, his eyes would be shooting flames.

The name for the DO in Trolloc is Ba'alzamon. That the one you're thinking of?

As far as I understand it the sa'a is the black specks that run across Ishy/Moridin's eyes from overuse of the TP.
I think the fires in the mouth and eyes is probably Ishy being a mad doctor evil...muhahahahahaha...I have fires in my eyes....I am uber dark!
I would imagine it scares the sweet light out of people and would be effective in his portrayal of being THE DO.

The black threads are that they are not True Power but rather the link to the DO that allows the Male forsaken to channel Saidin safely. Asmodean has them cut by Rand in TSR. The fire from eyes and mouth in my opinion are a side effect of the TP like the Saa. IIRC the longer Ishys out in the world the more pronounced the effect is. Does Moridin show similar effects in the later books? I know he starts to show the saa, but I dont remeber if the fire starts to spew?

Regarding using the Eye for the purpose he does, its just a theory. Now that Saidin is clean, Im guessing he can use an equal amount via the Choeden Kal and might get the same effect, i.e. bring in the creator. No evidence/reasons for this whatsoever, just a gut feeling.

Thanks Marco.
Yes, that's the name I was thinking of. =)

I had forgotten that's what the black threads were.

The flames being a side effect of the True Power is something I think too.
I forget though, was this the "power" Lanfear had been excited about tapping into when she first bored into the Dark One's Prison?
I don't remember what was said about the True Power other than there was a bigger price to pay for using it and is more dangerous to use than the One Power (that it's more....addicting to use), and that the other Forsaken chose not to use it like Ishmael/Moridin.

I wonder if Rand will get the same....effect/use, whatever using the Choedan Kal now that the female half of it, the figurine, was destroyed when he and Nynaeve used it together to cleanse saidin.
You know, since it's repeated over and over again the One Power always worked best when male and female worked together.
I would think Rand would need some female One Power uses to help him seal the prison...or will he have to do it alone? hmm.....

well only the Ter'angreal to the statue was destroyed, so the statue is still available in the islands of the A'than'mere (trying to spell from memory don't be to harsh). Also there were at least 2 of them (one was broken in Tanchico (sp?) ) so there might be another one hiding somewhere. Most likely, since they probably have to go to the bore sight to have the best chance of sealing it, or Elaine creates a new one OR they travel to the islands to have direct contact with it.

Hmmm. with that kind of power, could a circle of women include a man halfway around the world?

I didn't think of that, that there could be other figurines around (and you're right, Elayne *could* make another one....).
I think they all have to be in the same vicinity if they are going to link with Rand though, so having women channelers near that huge statue and Rand in the Blight near Shayol Gyul fighting the DO and trying to seal the bore wouldn't work IMO....maybe they could figure out logistics somehow...open a Travel gateway thingiemajobs and have the women in one side linking while Rand is on the other?LOL.