Horn or Dagger

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Horn or Dagger

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1doshiamit
Mar 7, 2008, 11:50 am

Anyone have any idea at how Mat gets the Old Tongue knowledge? The old blood thing, gave him a couple of words, but the amount of language he picks up between the end of TGH and his appearance in TDR is huge.

I see 2 possibilities:

1. The Horn: lowing the horn triggers something, and he starts getting the language, and a few scattered memories.

2. The Dagger: Mat hasnt had the dagger for a long time, and while travelling to Tar Valon with it almost dies. Something happens in his head to bring forth a few memories(Hes thinks commanding soldiers when the Aes Sedai are healing him, and Siuan thinks he was in both times and places at once) and a lot of the old tongue.

There might be other ways, but these strike me as the most likely. Anyone want to take a shot at explaining the mechanics of what happens here?

2readafew
Mar 7, 2008, 12:30 pm

Well, from my understanding, as you sad a little came from the 'the blood'. I think a little more came from the dagger, but only as the dagger asserting its own personality and trying to dominate him. and didn't leave much when permanently removed. Where I have always understood where he REALLY got the knowledge was with the memories when the snake people hung him out to dry. He asked to 'fill in the holes' in his memory and they did with his other incarnations.

3doshiamit
Mar 8, 2008, 2:35 am

I think you mean the Fox people. The snake people were the predicting people. The fox people hung him and gave him the memories.

Rough Timeline for Mats Old Tongue capabilities and possible causes:

TEotW:
- Shouts out Carai Caldazar when attacking Trollocs, before they go to Shadar Logoth
- Goes to Shadar Logoth, meets Mordeth, and picks up the Dagger
-Starts getting sick as soon as he leaves Shadar Logoth with the Dagger
-I think he does one more war cry in the book towards the end when they ride into the blight.

TGH:
- Has the portal Stone memories when travelling to Falme(I doubt this has any relevance, but I suppose it might possibly have something to do with the memory issues
-Blows the Horn of Valere
-I dont know if Mat realises it, but I think that Hawkwing indicated that Mat and Perrin are heroes of the horn, when he tells Hurin about how he might be able to join them as a hero. Its tenuous but this might have caused something that gave Mat his language/memories. Perrins capabilities with the Wolves, also seem to increase from this book to the next.

TDR:
-Is unconcious for a few days before he reaches Tar Valon
-Is healed by the Aes Sedai, has his first memory while unconcious, also speaks the Old Tongue fluently, and more complex than a battle cry
-When he wakes up has memories of himself fighting the Trolloc Wars for Manethren

TSR
-Speaks the Old Tongue while playing cards before the cards attack him.
-Speaks the Old Tongue while talking to the Snake people(Moirraine and Rand both need a translator, Morraine says its a rougher version of the Old TOngue than she knows)
-Goes to Rhuidean, and there has the holes in his memory filled with memories from people through the years who had visited the Finns.

Initially I had the same impression, i.e thats he got the memories from the Finns, but I was listening to the audiobooks, and realized that in the entire Book 2, theres no reference to him speaking the Old Tongue. In Book 1 he shouts out a war cry, but in Book 3 all of a sudden hes got a pretty solid vocabulary plus memories of at least one past life, where he is fighting in the Trolloc Wars for Manethren. He has the "I am no Aes Sedai meat" line in the Old Tongue. Something happens during the Great Hunt or the beginning of The Dragon Reborn, that sparks his language/memories.

4readafew
Mar 9, 2008, 9:11 am

Yes the Fox people I forgot which one was first. Well, I certainly don't remember anything specific pointing to any one other thing for Matt's abilities. It might even have had something to do with the massive healing with the one power from the knife.

So I guess I'm saying 'not a clue'.