Crafting Immigration Policy in America 3
Esto es una continuación del tema Crafting Immigration Policy in America 2.
Este tema fue continuado por Crafting Immigration Policy in America 4.
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1margd
"...there has been little public discussion of how U.S. employers — including the president himself — have generated demand for unlawful workers..."
My whole town practically lived there’: From Costa Rica to New Jersey, a pipeline of illegal workers for Trump goes back years
Joshua Partlow, Nick Miroff and David A. Fahrenthold | February 8, 2019
Trump rails against illegal workers. His 'Summer White House' was built by them.
...The Washington Post spoke with 16 men and women from Costa Rica and other Latin American countries, including six in Santa Teresa de Cajon, who said they were employed at the Trump National Golf Club Bedminster. All of them said they worked for Trump without legal status — and that their managers knew.
...Their descriptions of Bedminster’s long reliance on illegal workers are bolstered by a newly obtained police report showing that the club’s head of security was told in 2011 about an employee suspected of using false identification papers — the first known documentation of a warning to the Trump Organization about the legal status of a worker.
Other supervisors received similar flags over the years, including Bedminster’s general manager, who was told by a worker from Ecuador several years ago that she entered the country illegally, the employee said.
...The company’s recent purge of unauthorized workers from at least five Trump properties contributes to mounting evidence that the president benefited for years from the work of illegal laborers he now vilifies...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/my-whole-town-practically-lived-there-fr...
My whole town practically lived there’: From Costa Rica to New Jersey, a pipeline of illegal workers for Trump goes back years
Joshua Partlow, Nick Miroff and David A. Fahrenthold | February 8, 2019
Trump rails against illegal workers. His 'Summer White House' was built by them.
...The Washington Post spoke with 16 men and women from Costa Rica and other Latin American countries, including six in Santa Teresa de Cajon, who said they were employed at the Trump National Golf Club Bedminster. All of them said they worked for Trump without legal status — and that their managers knew.
...Their descriptions of Bedminster’s long reliance on illegal workers are bolstered by a newly obtained police report showing that the club’s head of security was told in 2011 about an employee suspected of using false identification papers — the first known documentation of a warning to the Trump Organization about the legal status of a worker.
Other supervisors received similar flags over the years, including Bedminster’s general manager, who was told by a worker from Ecuador several years ago that she entered the country illegally, the employee said.
...The company’s recent purge of unauthorized workers from at least five Trump properties contributes to mounting evidence that the president benefited for years from the work of illegal laborers he now vilifies...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/my-whole-town-practically-lived-there-fr...
2margd
"...there has been little public discussion of how U.S. employers — including the president himself — have generated demand for unlawful workers..."
My whole town practically lived there’: From Costa Rica to New Jersey, a pipeline of illegal workers for Trump goes back years
Joshua Partlow, Nick Miroff and David A. Fahrenthold | February 8, 2019
Trump rails against illegal workers. His 'Summer White House' was built by them.
...The Washington Post spoke with 16 men and women from Costa Rica and other Latin American countries, including six in Santa Teresa de Cajon, who said they were employed at the Trump National Golf Club Bedminster. All of them said they worked for Trump without legal status — and that their managers knew.
...Their descriptions of Bedminster’s long reliance on illegal workers are bolstered by a newly obtained police report showing that the club’s head of security was told in 2011 about an employee suspected of using false identification papers — the first known documentation of a warning to the Trump Organization about the legal status of a worker.
Other supervisors received similar flags over the years, including Bedminster’s general manager, who was told by a worker from Ecuador several years ago that she entered the country illegally, the employee said.
...The company’s recent purge of unauthorized workers from at least five Trump properties contributes to mounting evidence that the president benefited for years from the work of illegal laborers he now vilifies...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/my-whole-town-practically-lived-there-fr...
My whole town practically lived there’: From Costa Rica to New Jersey, a pipeline of illegal workers for Trump goes back years
Joshua Partlow, Nick Miroff and David A. Fahrenthold | February 8, 2019
Trump rails against illegal workers. His 'Summer White House' was built by them.
...The Washington Post spoke with 16 men and women from Costa Rica and other Latin American countries, including six in Santa Teresa de Cajon, who said they were employed at the Trump National Golf Club Bedminster. All of them said they worked for Trump without legal status — and that their managers knew.
...Their descriptions of Bedminster’s long reliance on illegal workers are bolstered by a newly obtained police report showing that the club’s head of security was told in 2011 about an employee suspected of using false identification papers — the first known documentation of a warning to the Trump Organization about the legal status of a worker.
Other supervisors received similar flags over the years, including Bedminster’s general manager, who was told by a worker from Ecuador several years ago that she entered the country illegally, the employee said.
...The company’s recent purge of unauthorized workers from at least five Trump properties contributes to mounting evidence that the president benefited for years from the work of illegal laborers he now vilifies...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/my-whole-town-practically-lived-there-fr...
3margd
Jonathan Karl jonkarl | 3:21 PM - 14 Feb 2019:
DOJ has warned the White House an emergency declaration is nearly certain to be blocked by the courts on at least a temporary basis, preventing immediate implementation of the president's plan to pay for the wall. However, WH believes they can ultimately win on appeal.
____________________________________________________________________
How congressional Democrats could fight a Trump wall national emergency declaration
Gregory Korte | Updated 4:47 p.m. ET Feb. 14, 2019
...why Republicans have advised President Donald Trump against bypassing Congress and invoking a national emergency to build a wall along the Mexican border.
In addition to raising legal questions – such a move would inevitably be challenged in court – a declaration would invite Congress to exercise its long-dormant power to revoke national emergencies.
And all it would take is one member of Congress to force the issue.
Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., in 2009...dug up the National Emergencies Act of 1975, one in a series of post-Watergate reforms. It allowed Congress to terminate a presidential emergency by simple majority vote. (GW Bush backed down on his 2005 proposal to suspend prevailing wage laws on federal contracts to rebuild after Hurricane Katrina).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/08/presidential-declaration-n...
DOJ has warned the White House an emergency declaration is nearly certain to be blocked by the courts on at least a temporary basis, preventing immediate implementation of the president's plan to pay for the wall. However, WH believes they can ultimately win on appeal.
____________________________________________________________________
How congressional Democrats could fight a Trump wall national emergency declaration
Gregory Korte | Updated 4:47 p.m. ET Feb. 14, 2019
...why Republicans have advised President Donald Trump against bypassing Congress and invoking a national emergency to build a wall along the Mexican border.
In addition to raising legal questions – such a move would inevitably be challenged in court – a declaration would invite Congress to exercise its long-dormant power to revoke national emergencies.
And all it would take is one member of Congress to force the issue.
Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., in 2009...dug up the National Emergencies Act of 1975, one in a series of post-Watergate reforms. It allowed Congress to terminate a presidential emergency by simple majority vote. (GW Bush backed down on his 2005 proposal to suspend prevailing wage laws on federal contracts to rebuild after Hurricane Katrina).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/08/presidential-declaration-n...
4John5918
Thousands of migrant children allegedly sexually abused in US custody (Guardian)
Almost 5,000 complaints of sexual abuse and harassment of migrant children in US custody have been filed over the past four years, according to government documents released this week. The allegations range from adult staff members having relationships with minors, and the showing of pornographic videos, to forcible touching.
According to Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) documents... the reports date back to October 2015, during the Obama administration. However, most of the sexual abuse and harassment reported occurred since Donald Trump took office...
Edited to add: Perhaps this should be read in conjunction with Abuse, 'survival sex' a stark reality for child migrants (Al Jazeera), which is about migration in general, not specifically the USA.
Growing number of unaccompanied migrant children are exploited in transit and country of destination
Almost 5,000 complaints of sexual abuse and harassment of migrant children in US custody have been filed over the past four years, according to government documents released this week. The allegations range from adult staff members having relationships with minors, and the showing of pornographic videos, to forcible touching.
According to Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) documents... the reports date back to October 2015, during the Obama administration. However, most of the sexual abuse and harassment reported occurred since Donald Trump took office...
Edited to add: Perhaps this should be read in conjunction with Abuse, 'survival sex' a stark reality for child migrants (Al Jazeera), which is about migration in general, not specifically the USA.
Growing number of unaccompanied migrant children are exploited in transit and country of destination
5John5918
'The desert speaks': Faith communities gather at U.S.-Mexico border (National Catholic Reporter)
Bishops from both sides of the border and Catholics working on migration matters convened a special meeting in El Paso Feb. 25–27 to plan their responses to the implementation of U.S. immigration policy...
Bishops from both sides of the border and Catholics working on migration matters convened a special meeting in El Paso Feb. 25–27 to plan their responses to the implementation of U.S. immigration policy...
6margd
Wilbur Ross broke law, violated Constitution in census decision, judge rules
Fred Barbash | March 6, 2019
Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross acted in “bad faith,” broke several laws and violated the constitutional underpinning of representative democracy when he added a citizenship question to the 2020 Census, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.
In finding a breach of the Constitution’s enumeration clause, which requires a census every 10 years to determine each state’s representation in Congress, the 126-page ruling by U.S. District Judge Richard Seeborg in San Francisco went further than a similar decision on Jan. 15 by Judge Jesse Furman in New York.
The Supreme Court has already agreed to review Furman’s narrower decision, with arguments set for April 23, but may now need to expand its inquiry to constitutional dimensions...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/wilbur-ross-broke-law-vio...
Fred Barbash | March 6, 2019
Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross acted in “bad faith,” broke several laws and violated the constitutional underpinning of representative democracy when he added a citizenship question to the 2020 Census, a federal judge ruled Wednesday.
In finding a breach of the Constitution’s enumeration clause, which requires a census every 10 years to determine each state’s representation in Congress, the 126-page ruling by U.S. District Judge Richard Seeborg in San Francisco went further than a similar decision on Jan. 15 by Judge Jesse Furman in New York.
The Supreme Court has already agreed to review Furman’s narrower decision, with arguments set for April 23, but may now need to expand its inquiry to constitutional dimensions...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/wilbur-ross-broke-law-vio...
7margd
The Case for Getting Rid of Borders—Completely
Alex Tabarrok | October 10, 2015
...Closed borders are one of the world’s greatest moral failings but the opening of borders is the world’s greatest economic opportunity. The grandest moral revolutions in history—the abolition of slavery, the securing of religious freedom, the recognition of the rights of women—yielded a world in which virtually everyone was better off. They also demonstrated that the fears that had perpetuated these injustices were unfounded. Similarly, a planet unscarred by iron curtains is not only a world of greater equality and justice. It is a world unafraid of itself.
The Atlantic
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-case-for-getting-rid-of-borders-completel...
_______________________________________________________
If Liberals Won’t Enforce Borders, Fascists Will
David Frum | April 2019 Issue
...Within a decade, the foreign-born percentage of the U.S. population will surpass its previous all-time peak — and then keep rising
...Too little immigration, and you freeze your country out of the modern world. Too much, or the wrong kind, and you overstress your social-insurance system—and possibly upend your democracy. Choose well, and you build a stronger, richer country for both newcomers and the long-settled. Choose badly, and you aggravate inequality and inflame intergroup hostility. How we choose will shape the future that will in its turn shape us.
...economists generally do agree...
First, adding millions of additional immigrant workers every decade makes the American economy in the aggregate much bigger than it would otherwise be...
Second, immigration contributes very little to making native-born Americans richer than they would otherwise be....
Third, the gains from immigration are divided very unequally...Low-income Americans receive comparatively little benefit...
And finally, while the impact of immigration on what the typical American earns is quite small, its impact on government finances is big...
Immigrants are making America safer...
Immigrants are making America less self-destructive...
Immigrants are lowering America’s average skill level...
Immigrants are enabling employers to behave badly...
Immigrants are altering the relationship between Americans and their government, and making the country more hierarchical...
...Many Americans feel that the country is falling short of its promises of equal opportunity and equal respect. Levels of immigration that are too high only enhance the difficulty of living up to those promises. Reducing immigration, and selecting immigrants more carefully, will enable the country to more quickly and successfully absorb the people who come here, and to ensure equality of opportunity to both the newly arrived and the long-settled—to restore to Americans the feeling of belonging to one united nation, responsible for the care and flourishing of all its people.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/david-frum-how-much-immigra...
Alex Tabarrok | October 10, 2015
...Closed borders are one of the world’s greatest moral failings but the opening of borders is the world’s greatest economic opportunity. The grandest moral revolutions in history—the abolition of slavery, the securing of religious freedom, the recognition of the rights of women—yielded a world in which virtually everyone was better off. They also demonstrated that the fears that had perpetuated these injustices were unfounded. Similarly, a planet unscarred by iron curtains is not only a world of greater equality and justice. It is a world unafraid of itself.
The Atlantic
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-case-for-getting-rid-of-borders-completel...
_______________________________________________________
If Liberals Won’t Enforce Borders, Fascists Will
David Frum | April 2019 Issue
...Within a decade, the foreign-born percentage of the U.S. population will surpass its previous all-time peak — and then keep rising
...Too little immigration, and you freeze your country out of the modern world. Too much, or the wrong kind, and you overstress your social-insurance system—and possibly upend your democracy. Choose well, and you build a stronger, richer country for both newcomers and the long-settled. Choose badly, and you aggravate inequality and inflame intergroup hostility. How we choose will shape the future that will in its turn shape us.
...economists generally do agree...
First, adding millions of additional immigrant workers every decade makes the American economy in the aggregate much bigger than it would otherwise be...
Second, immigration contributes very little to making native-born Americans richer than they would otherwise be....
Third, the gains from immigration are divided very unequally...Low-income Americans receive comparatively little benefit...
And finally, while the impact of immigration on what the typical American earns is quite small, its impact on government finances is big...
Immigrants are making America safer...
Immigrants are making America less self-destructive...
Immigrants are lowering America’s average skill level...
Immigrants are enabling employers to behave badly...
Immigrants are altering the relationship between Americans and their government, and making the country more hierarchical...
...Many Americans feel that the country is falling short of its promises of equal opportunity and equal respect. Levels of immigration that are too high only enhance the difficulty of living up to those promises. Reducing immigration, and selecting immigrants more carefully, will enable the country to more quickly and successfully absorb the people who come here, and to ensure equality of opportunity to both the newly arrived and the long-settled—to restore to Americans the feeling of belonging to one united nation, responsible for the care and flourishing of all its people.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/04/david-frum-how-much-immigra...
92wonderY
Trump Administration Plans to Close Key Immigration Operations Abroad
The director of United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, L. Francis Cissna, told senior staff members this week that the international division, which has operations in more than 20 countries, would close down by the end of the year, according to two people with knowledge of the meeting.
Agency officials said the move was intended to provide more staff resources to handle the lengthy backlog in asylum applications from tens of thousands of migrants crossing the southern border every month. But it could come at the expense of legal migration, which President Trump has said he favors.
…
“It will be a great blow to the quality and integrity of the legal immigration system,” said Barbara Strack, who retired last year as the chief of the Refugee Affairs Division at the agency. “It will throw that system into chaos around the world.”
The International Operations Division has about 240 employees working at 24 field offices in 21 countries.
The director of United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, L. Francis Cissna, told senior staff members this week that the international division, which has operations in more than 20 countries, would close down by the end of the year, according to two people with knowledge of the meeting.
Agency officials said the move was intended to provide more staff resources to handle the lengthy backlog in asylum applications from tens of thousands of migrants crossing the southern border every month. But it could come at the expense of legal migration, which President Trump has said he favors.
…
“It will be a great blow to the quality and integrity of the legal immigration system,” said Barbara Strack, who retired last year as the chief of the Refugee Affairs Division at the agency. “It will throw that system into chaos around the world.”
The International Operations Division has about 240 employees working at 24 field offices in 21 countries.
10jjwilson61
9> Won't this get in the way of "extreme vetting"?
11John5918
>9 2wonderY:
It's already quite a chore for people to get visas for the USA as many (most?) US Embassies do not process them. As it says, only 24 field offices in 21 countries, ie only 21 countries in the world where you can go and get a US visa.
It's already quite a chore for people to get visas for the USA as many (most?) US Embassies do not process them. As it says, only 24 field offices in 21 countries, ie only 21 countries in the world where you can go and get a US visa.
12John5918
Not about immigration to the USA, but a harrowing tale of what life is like for refugees: a Sudanese refugee's journey, from London Review of Books
13margd
Priorities, priorities, priorities...
US immigration officials couldn't keep track of kids they separated from their parents, but
Trump's director of Office of Refugee Resettlement, Scott Lloyd, kept a spreadsheet
on pregnancies in unaccompanied minors (12-17), including last day of menstrual cycles: see spreadsheet at 11:09 of video!
(As of March 30, 2018, federal court directed Office of Refugee Settlement to stop interfering with medical care, including abortion. Scott Lloyd kept keeping tracking the girls, though not clear whether he continued to act on the information.)
Trump admin tracked individual migrant girls' pregnancies
Rachel Maddow reports exclusively on details of a newly obtained spreadsheet kept by the Trump administration's Office of Refugee Resettlement, led by anti-abortion activist Scott Lloyd, tracking the pregnancies of unaccompanied minor girls. Brigitte Amiri, ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project senior staff attorney, joins to discuss details of the case. March 15, 2019
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-admin-tracked-individual-migrant...
US immigration officials couldn't keep track of kids they separated from their parents, but
Trump's director of Office of Refugee Resettlement, Scott Lloyd, kept a spreadsheet
on pregnancies in unaccompanied minors (12-17), including last day of menstrual cycles: see spreadsheet at 11:09 of video!
(As of March 30, 2018, federal court directed Office of Refugee Settlement to stop interfering with medical care, including abortion. Scott Lloyd kept keeping tracking the girls, though not clear whether he continued to act on the information.)
Trump admin tracked individual migrant girls' pregnancies
Rachel Maddow reports exclusively on details of a newly obtained spreadsheet kept by the Trump administration's Office of Refugee Resettlement, led by anti-abortion activist Scott Lloyd, tracking the pregnancies of unaccompanied minor girls. Brigitte Amiri, ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project senior staff attorney, joins to discuss details of the case. March 15, 2019
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/trump-admin-tracked-individual-migrant...
15margd
O.M.G.
Video shows harrowing journey asylum seekers take to enter US (3:18)
Matt Gutman Apr 1, 2019
https://abcnews.go.com/US/video-shows-harrowing-journey-asylum-seekers-enter-us/...
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Honduran migrants deported from U.S. often face grim fate (Clip: 10m 27s)
04/01/2019 |
The deadly stranglehold of gang violence in Honduras drives tens of thousands of desperate residents to flee north to request asylum in the U.S. But few receive it, often due to a lack of documentation of the persecution they faced at home. Special correspondent Marcia Biggs reports from San Pedro Sula with harrowing stories of the fates of migrants who made it to the U.S., only to be deported.
https://www.pbs.org/video/fleeing-home-1554161861/
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What The End Of U.S. Aid Could Mean For El Salvador, Guatemala And Honduras (4:52) (Transcript)
April 1, 20195:21 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered
NPR's Ailsa Chang talks with Claudia Ivette Canjura de Centeno, El Salvador's ambassador to the U.S., about the Trump administration's latest move to end funding to three Central American countries.
...we haven't received an official announcement...
...we are making all our efforts - we're doing the best in terms of decrease in the movements of irregular migration. El Salvador is one of the countries in the region that has decreased it more than 60 percent, the arrivals at the north - at the southern border...
...a delegation from congressman and congresswoman from the U.S., went to our country. And they could witness all the performance that the - the U.S.-El Salvador cooperation programs has and how they impact in appropriate way in - in our community. So they could see the performance and how we are doing the best that we can at all the levels - at the local levels with all our governments - with all our local governments in terms of improving the conditions...
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/01/708856209/what-the-end-of-u-s-aid-could-mean-for-...
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/01/708856209/what-the-end-of-u-s-aid-could-mean-for-...
Video shows harrowing journey asylum seekers take to enter US (3:18)
Matt Gutman Apr 1, 2019
https://abcnews.go.com/US/video-shows-harrowing-journey-asylum-seekers-enter-us/...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honduran migrants deported from U.S. often face grim fate (Clip: 10m 27s)
04/01/2019 |
The deadly stranglehold of gang violence in Honduras drives tens of thousands of desperate residents to flee north to request asylum in the U.S. But few receive it, often due to a lack of documentation of the persecution they faced at home. Special correspondent Marcia Biggs reports from San Pedro Sula with harrowing stories of the fates of migrants who made it to the U.S., only to be deported.
https://www.pbs.org/video/fleeing-home-1554161861/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What The End Of U.S. Aid Could Mean For El Salvador, Guatemala And Honduras (4:52) (Transcript)
April 1, 20195:21 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered
NPR's Ailsa Chang talks with Claudia Ivette Canjura de Centeno, El Salvador's ambassador to the U.S., about the Trump administration's latest move to end funding to three Central American countries.
...we haven't received an official announcement...
...we are making all our efforts - we're doing the best in terms of decrease in the movements of irregular migration. El Salvador is one of the countries in the region that has decreased it more than 60 percent, the arrivals at the north - at the southern border...
...a delegation from congressman and congresswoman from the U.S., went to our country. And they could witness all the performance that the - the U.S.-El Salvador cooperation programs has and how they impact in appropriate way in - in our community. So they could see the performance and how we are doing the best that we can at all the levels - at the local levels with all our governments - with all our local governments in terms of improving the conditions...
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/01/708856209/what-the-end-of-u-s-aid-could-mean-for-...
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/01/708856209/what-the-end-of-u-s-aid-could-mean-for-...
16margd
CVE Technology Group knowingly hired undocumented immigrants--why isn't it charged?
Always the employees, rarely the employer...
ICE Raids Texas Technology Company, Arrests 280 On Immigration Violations
Stella M. Chavez, Christopher Connolly, Anthony Cave | April 3, 20197:56 PM ET
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/03/709680162/ice-raids-texas-technology-company-arre...
Always the employees, rarely the employer...
ICE Raids Texas Technology Company, Arrests 280 On Immigration Violations
Stella M. Chavez, Christopher Connolly, Anthony Cave | April 3, 20197:56 PM ET
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/03/709680162/ice-raids-texas-technology-company-arre...
17margd
How Climate Change Is Fuelling the U.S. Border Crisis
Jonathan Blitzer | April 3, 2019
In the western highlands of Guatemala, the question is no longer whether someone will leave but when.
...In most of the western highlands, the question is no longer whether someone will emigrate but when. “Extreme poverty may be the primary reason people leave,” Edwin Castellanos, a climate scientist at the Universidad del Valle, told me. “But climate change is intensifying all the existing factors.” Extended periods of heat and dryness, known as canículas, have increased in four of the last seven years, across the country. Yet even measurements of annual rainfall, which is projected to decline over the next fifty years, obscure the effects of its growing irregularity on agriculture. Farming, Castellanos has said, is “a trial-and-error exercise for the modification of the conditions of sowing and harvesting times in the face of a variable environment.” Climate change is outpacing the ability of growers to adapt. Based on models of shifting weather patterns in the region, Castellanos told me, “what was supposed to be happening fifty years from now is our present reality.”...
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/how-climate-change-is-fuelling-the-us-bo...
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The Epidemic of Debt Plaguing Central American Migrants
Jonathan Blitzer | April 4, 2019
Borrowers are using their homes and other property as collateral for a chance to make it to the Unites States.
...A number of factors have caused smugglers’ fees to rise, from frequent payouts to criminal groups along the route to the simple dictates of supply and demand. But another trend has simultaneously kept prices in check. More families are attempting to enter the U.S. by seeking asylum, either at official ports of entry, or by allowing themselves to get apprehended elsewhere along the border. From a smuggler’s standpoint, that lowers the degree of difficulty for the costliest part of the trip—the salto, as it’s known, or final “jump” into the U.S. Many of them have offered “package deals,” with discounts to families heading north, which are not an option for single adults like López. In any case, the U.S. government has recently implemented a policy that may begin to change the calculations for everyone. Known as Remain in Mexico, it forces asylum seekers to wait indefinitely in Mexico while their humanitarian claims move through the backlogged American immigration courts. As a result, more migrants are attempting to sneak across the border, delivering a fresh windfall in profits to smugglers.
There is also an epidemic of debt spreading among families who’ve taken out loans to pay for their trips. “Tens of thousands of Guatemalans assume debt every year,” Aracely Martínez, an immigration expert at the Universidad del Valle de Guatemala, told me. “It’s common throughout the entire country, especially if someone doesn’t have a lot of financial support from their family, or if they don’t have friends in the United States.” Some, like López, never make it to the U.S., but others who do are often deported later, before they have enough time to pay down their loans, which usually takes between six months and a year of steady work in the U.S. For those who are apprehended, there’s an additional problem: prolonged detention means months of inactivity in which the interest on a person’s loan continues to run. Evictions have grown increasingly common in some areas where debts have become unpayable. “I have three relatives who have been kicked out,” a father and former migrant told two American researchers in an article published last year in the journal Antipode. “Now they’re living with other people. . . . That’s why many people after their second deportation keep on trying.”
Richard Lee Johnson, a doctoral candidate at the University of Arizona who is based in Quetzaltenango, has spent the last five years studying the relationship between debt and migration, and has interviewed dozens of immigrants and their families in the western highlands. What he’s found is a feedback loop in which immigrants who fail to reach the U.S. become stuck in a cycle of future attempts. “These days, average migrant debts have climbed so high that a U.S. wage is the only real way to pay them off,” Johnson told me. The Trump Administration has only exacerbated the situation. By focussing almost exclusively on harsher enforcement at the border, it has made crossing much more painful but no less urgent for those who are trying to alleviate mounting debts. “Deportation doesn’t seem to deter undocumented migration,” Johnson said, “so much as to reinforce it.”...
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-epidemic-of-debt-plaguing-central-am...
Jonathan Blitzer | April 3, 2019
In the western highlands of Guatemala, the question is no longer whether someone will leave but when.
...In most of the western highlands, the question is no longer whether someone will emigrate but when. “Extreme poverty may be the primary reason people leave,” Edwin Castellanos, a climate scientist at the Universidad del Valle, told me. “But climate change is intensifying all the existing factors.” Extended periods of heat and dryness, known as canículas, have increased in four of the last seven years, across the country. Yet even measurements of annual rainfall, which is projected to decline over the next fifty years, obscure the effects of its growing irregularity on agriculture. Farming, Castellanos has said, is “a trial-and-error exercise for the modification of the conditions of sowing and harvesting times in the face of a variable environment.” Climate change is outpacing the ability of growers to adapt. Based on models of shifting weather patterns in the region, Castellanos told me, “what was supposed to be happening fifty years from now is our present reality.”...
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/how-climate-change-is-fuelling-the-us-bo...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Epidemic of Debt Plaguing Central American Migrants
Jonathan Blitzer | April 4, 2019
Borrowers are using their homes and other property as collateral for a chance to make it to the Unites States.
...A number of factors have caused smugglers’ fees to rise, from frequent payouts to criminal groups along the route to the simple dictates of supply and demand. But another trend has simultaneously kept prices in check. More families are attempting to enter the U.S. by seeking asylum, either at official ports of entry, or by allowing themselves to get apprehended elsewhere along the border. From a smuggler’s standpoint, that lowers the degree of difficulty for the costliest part of the trip—the salto, as it’s known, or final “jump” into the U.S. Many of them have offered “package deals,” with discounts to families heading north, which are not an option for single adults like López. In any case, the U.S. government has recently implemented a policy that may begin to change the calculations for everyone. Known as Remain in Mexico, it forces asylum seekers to wait indefinitely in Mexico while their humanitarian claims move through the backlogged American immigration courts. As a result, more migrants are attempting to sneak across the border, delivering a fresh windfall in profits to smugglers.
There is also an epidemic of debt spreading among families who’ve taken out loans to pay for their trips. “Tens of thousands of Guatemalans assume debt every year,” Aracely Martínez, an immigration expert at the Universidad del Valle de Guatemala, told me. “It’s common throughout the entire country, especially if someone doesn’t have a lot of financial support from their family, or if they don’t have friends in the United States.” Some, like López, never make it to the U.S., but others who do are often deported later, before they have enough time to pay down their loans, which usually takes between six months and a year of steady work in the U.S. For those who are apprehended, there’s an additional problem: prolonged detention means months of inactivity in which the interest on a person’s loan continues to run. Evictions have grown increasingly common in some areas where debts have become unpayable. “I have three relatives who have been kicked out,” a father and former migrant told two American researchers in an article published last year in the journal Antipode. “Now they’re living with other people. . . . That’s why many people after their second deportation keep on trying.”
Richard Lee Johnson, a doctoral candidate at the University of Arizona who is based in Quetzaltenango, has spent the last five years studying the relationship between debt and migration, and has interviewed dozens of immigrants and their families in the western highlands. What he’s found is a feedback loop in which immigrants who fail to reach the U.S. become stuck in a cycle of future attempts. “These days, average migrant debts have climbed so high that a U.S. wage is the only real way to pay them off,” Johnson told me. The Trump Administration has only exacerbated the situation. By focussing almost exclusively on harsher enforcement at the border, it has made crossing much more painful but no less urgent for those who are trying to alleviate mounting debts. “Deportation doesn’t seem to deter undocumented migration,” Johnson said, “so much as to reinforce it.”...
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-epidemic-of-debt-plaguing-central-am...
18margd
>13 margd: priorities...
Two years. children under five--that's at leats 40% of their young lives!
US wants 2 years to ID migrant kids separated from families
ELLIOT SPAGAT Associated Press SAN DIEGO — Apr 6, 2019
The Trump administration wants up to two years to find potentially thousands of children who were separated from their families at the border before a judge halted the practice last year, a task that it says is more laborious than previous efforts because the children are no longer in government custody.
The Justice Department said in a court filing late Friday that it will take at least a year to review about 47,000 cases of unaccompanied children taken into government custody between July 1, 2017 and June 25, 2018 — the day before U.S. District Judge Dana Sabraw halted the general practice of splitting families. The administration would begin by sifting through names for traits most likely to signal separation — for example, children under 5.
The administration would provide information on separated families on a rolling basis to the American Civil Liberties Union, which sued to reunite families and criticized the proposed timeline on Saturday.
Sabraw ordered last year that more than 2,700 children in government care on June 26, 2018 be reunited with their families, which has largely been accomplished. Then, in January, the U.S. Health and Human Services Department's internal watchdog reported that thousands more children may have been separated since the summer of 2017. The department's inspector general said the precise number was unknown.
The judge ruled last month that he could hold the government accountable for families that were separated before his June order and asked the government submit a proposal for the next steps. A hearing is scheduled April 16...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-years-identify-kids-separated-famil...
Two years. children under five--that's at leats 40% of their young lives!
US wants 2 years to ID migrant kids separated from families
ELLIOT SPAGAT Associated Press SAN DIEGO — Apr 6, 2019
The Trump administration wants up to two years to find potentially thousands of children who were separated from their families at the border before a judge halted the practice last year, a task that it says is more laborious than previous efforts because the children are no longer in government custody.
The Justice Department said in a court filing late Friday that it will take at least a year to review about 47,000 cases of unaccompanied children taken into government custody between July 1, 2017 and June 25, 2018 — the day before U.S. District Judge Dana Sabraw halted the general practice of splitting families. The administration would begin by sifting through names for traits most likely to signal separation — for example, children under 5.
The administration would provide information on separated families on a rolling basis to the American Civil Liberties Union, which sued to reunite families and criticized the proposed timeline on Saturday.
Sabraw ordered last year that more than 2,700 children in government care on June 26, 2018 be reunited with their families, which has largely been accomplished. Then, in January, the U.S. Health and Human Services Department's internal watchdog reported that thousands more children may have been separated since the summer of 2017. The department's inspector general said the precise number was unknown.
The judge ruled last month that he could hold the government accountable for families that were separated before his June order and asked the government submit a proposal for the next steps. A hearing is scheduled April 16...
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-years-identify-kids-separated-famil...
19margd
Run-up to 2020 could get *even more* ugly...
"As much as Trump rages against asylum claims, they are codified in US and international laws that he in practice cannot just disregard."
Nielsen ouster lays bare Trump's own immigration crisis
Stephen Collinson | April 8, 2019
...Nielsen's demise is the clearest indication yet of the impossibility of reconciling Trump's ideological and emotional instincts on immigration -- which helped make him President -- with legal, humanitarian and international realities.
Nielsen "believed the situation was becoming untenable" with Trump "becoming increasingly unhinged about the border crisis and making unreasonable and even impossible requests"...
Her departure mirrors that of former Defense Secretary James Mattis last year, whose authority was shredded by a sudden, and apparently spontaneous announcement of a Syria withdrawal by the President, but who had gradually grown apart from his boss.
In both cases, the complexity of serious policy problems, often in life or death situations, clashed with the political instincts of a President who abhors detail and prefers to govern from the gut, while ignoring conventional expertise -- even from subordinates that in no way could be considered moderates.
...the President might also have gone looking for a scapegoat.
...Speculation about her status ballooned last week, after Trump suddenly declared that he would halt hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, accusing them of sending migrants to the US border.
The move utterly undercut Nielsen who had just days before signed what her department called a "historic, regional compact" to tackle undocumented migration at its source.
...Trump has already signaled that he will make immigration a centerpiece of his 2020 re-election bid and has every political incentive, since he is basing his hopes of a second term on energizing his base, to turn up the heat on the issue.
...limits...As much as Trump rages against asylum claims, they are codified in US and international laws that he in practice cannot just disregard.
He recently found out that his preferred, dramatic solution of just closing the border would cause a swift and massive economic backlash that in itself could harm his hopes of winning a second term.
The President is already pushing his power to the limit, and possibly beyond it by seeking to use a national emergency declaration to redirect money already allocated by Congress for other projects to the border wall that was at the symbolic center of his 2016 campaign.
For all his fiery speeches, it is difficult for Trump to argue that his hardline approach on immigration is actually working.
...ultimately, there will be no solution to the border problem and the chronic glut in the asylum and court systems, without action by Congress.
...The White House wants asylum law tightened and the power to detain families traveling with children -- a practice Democrats have branded inhumane...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/08/politics/donald-trump-kirstjen-nielsen-immigratio...
______________________________________________________________________________
Stephen Miller...
Stephen Miller pressuring Trump officials amid immigration shakeups
The White House hardliner is driving a more aggressive immigration approach.
ANITA KUMAR, GABBY ORR and DANIEL LIPPMAN | 04/07/2019
...( 33-year-old policy WH adviser and speechwrite Stephen Miller) has been arguing for personnel changes to bring in more like-minded hardliners...including the ouster of a key immigration official at the Department of Homeland Security, whose secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, announced on Sunday that she is resigning.
Miller has also recently been telephoning mid-level officials at several federal departments and agencies (Departments of Homeland Security, Justice and State--including Craig Symons, chief counsel at USCIS; Carl Risch, the assistant secretary of State for Consular Affairs; ICE deputy director Matthew Albence; and Kathy Nuebel, policy and strategy chief at USCIS) to angrily demand that they do more to stem the flow of immigrants into the country, according to two people familiar with the calls.
...“There’s definitely a larger shakeup abreast being led by Stephen Miller and the staunch right wing within the administration,” said a person close to Nielsen, who resigned Sunday after months of pressure from a president who felt she was not tough enough on illegal immigration. “They failed with the courts and with Congress and now they’re eating their own.”
...Miller also has been pushing for Trump to fire Lee Francis Cissna, director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, who has overseen implementation of some of the administration’s lesser-known immigration policies, including green card reforms and changes to how the federal government processes and admits refugees.
...Miller also appears to have played a role in Trump’s surprise move on Friday to withdraw his nomination of acting U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Ronald Vitiello, whom he had moved to install permanently, saying he wanted to take the agency in a “tougher direction."
Miller had informed the president days before he pulled Vitiello’s nomination that the acting ICE chief had reservations about closing down the southern border, which Trump has recently threatened to do against the recommendation of some of his top economic advisers and policy aides...Nielsen...protested the move...It also shocked Republicans on Capitol Hill.
...The number of family members intercepted at the southwest border soared in March, according to preliminary CBP statistics. While overall arrests remain below the higher levels of the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, the Trump administration argues families and children present unique humanitarian and security issues.
...Trump officials have also recently discussed creating an immigration “czar” — a single official who would oversee the issue across dozens of departments and agencies. The position would not require Senate confirmation.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/07/stephen-miller-trump-immigration-12604...
"As much as Trump rages against asylum claims, they are codified in US and international laws that he in practice cannot just disregard."
Nielsen ouster lays bare Trump's own immigration crisis
Stephen Collinson | April 8, 2019
...Nielsen's demise is the clearest indication yet of the impossibility of reconciling Trump's ideological and emotional instincts on immigration -- which helped make him President -- with legal, humanitarian and international realities.
Nielsen "believed the situation was becoming untenable" with Trump "becoming increasingly unhinged about the border crisis and making unreasonable and even impossible requests"...
Her departure mirrors that of former Defense Secretary James Mattis last year, whose authority was shredded by a sudden, and apparently spontaneous announcement of a Syria withdrawal by the President, but who had gradually grown apart from his boss.
In both cases, the complexity of serious policy problems, often in life or death situations, clashed with the political instincts of a President who abhors detail and prefers to govern from the gut, while ignoring conventional expertise -- even from subordinates that in no way could be considered moderates.
...the President might also have gone looking for a scapegoat.
...Speculation about her status ballooned last week, after Trump suddenly declared that he would halt hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Honduras, El Salvador and Guatemala, accusing them of sending migrants to the US border.
The move utterly undercut Nielsen who had just days before signed what her department called a "historic, regional compact" to tackle undocumented migration at its source.
...Trump has already signaled that he will make immigration a centerpiece of his 2020 re-election bid and has every political incentive, since he is basing his hopes of a second term on energizing his base, to turn up the heat on the issue.
...limits...As much as Trump rages against asylum claims, they are codified in US and international laws that he in practice cannot just disregard.
He recently found out that his preferred, dramatic solution of just closing the border would cause a swift and massive economic backlash that in itself could harm his hopes of winning a second term.
The President is already pushing his power to the limit, and possibly beyond it by seeking to use a national emergency declaration to redirect money already allocated by Congress for other projects to the border wall that was at the symbolic center of his 2016 campaign.
For all his fiery speeches, it is difficult for Trump to argue that his hardline approach on immigration is actually working.
...ultimately, there will be no solution to the border problem and the chronic glut in the asylum and court systems, without action by Congress.
...The White House wants asylum law tightened and the power to detain families traveling with children -- a practice Democrats have branded inhumane...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/08/politics/donald-trump-kirstjen-nielsen-immigratio...
______________________________________________________________________________
Stephen Miller...
Stephen Miller pressuring Trump officials amid immigration shakeups
The White House hardliner is driving a more aggressive immigration approach.
ANITA KUMAR, GABBY ORR and DANIEL LIPPMAN | 04/07/2019
...( 33-year-old policy WH adviser and speechwrite Stephen Miller) has been arguing for personnel changes to bring in more like-minded hardliners...including the ouster of a key immigration official at the Department of Homeland Security, whose secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, announced on Sunday that she is resigning.
Miller has also recently been telephoning mid-level officials at several federal departments and agencies (Departments of Homeland Security, Justice and State--including Craig Symons, chief counsel at USCIS; Carl Risch, the assistant secretary of State for Consular Affairs; ICE deputy director Matthew Albence; and Kathy Nuebel, policy and strategy chief at USCIS) to angrily demand that they do more to stem the flow of immigrants into the country, according to two people familiar with the calls.
...“There’s definitely a larger shakeup abreast being led by Stephen Miller and the staunch right wing within the administration,” said a person close to Nielsen, who resigned Sunday after months of pressure from a president who felt she was not tough enough on illegal immigration. “They failed with the courts and with Congress and now they’re eating their own.”
...Miller also has been pushing for Trump to fire Lee Francis Cissna, director of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, who has overseen implementation of some of the administration’s lesser-known immigration policies, including green card reforms and changes to how the federal government processes and admits refugees.
...Miller also appears to have played a role in Trump’s surprise move on Friday to withdraw his nomination of acting U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director Ronald Vitiello, whom he had moved to install permanently, saying he wanted to take the agency in a “tougher direction."
Miller had informed the president days before he pulled Vitiello’s nomination that the acting ICE chief had reservations about closing down the southern border, which Trump has recently threatened to do against the recommendation of some of his top economic advisers and policy aides...Nielsen...protested the move...It also shocked Republicans on Capitol Hill.
...The number of family members intercepted at the southwest border soared in March, according to preliminary CBP statistics. While overall arrests remain below the higher levels of the 1980s, 1990s and early 2000s, the Trump administration argues families and children present unique humanitarian and security issues.
...Trump officials have also recently discussed creating an immigration “czar” — a single official who would oversee the issue across dozens of departments and agencies. The position would not require Senate confirmation.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/07/stephen-miller-trump-immigration-12604...
20margd
Motel 6 will pay $12 million to settle lawsuit after sharing guest info with ICE
The disclosures resulted in targeted ICE investigations into guests.
Karma Allen | Apr 8, 2019
...The budget motel operator illegally shared the personal information of about 80,000 customers for more than two years, resulting in a "targeted" ICE investigation into guests with Latino-sounding names, the Washington state attorney general's office announced Thursday...between February 2015 and September 2017, without requiring a warrant...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/motel-pay-12m-settle-lawsuit-sharing-guest-info/story
The disclosures resulted in targeted ICE investigations into guests.
Karma Allen | Apr 8, 2019
...The budget motel operator illegally shared the personal information of about 80,000 customers for more than two years, resulting in a "targeted" ICE investigation into guests with Latino-sounding names, the Washington state attorney general's office announced Thursday...between February 2015 and September 2017, without requiring a warrant...
https://abcnews.go.com/US/motel-pay-12m-settle-lawsuit-sharing-guest-info/story
21John5918
Voting and loathing in South Africa (Al Jazeera)
The general election is approaching in South Africa, so let's blame everything on migrants
Not about the USA, but US citizens might recognise some of the themes explored here.
The general election is approaching in South Africa, so let's blame everything on migrants
Not about the USA, but US citizens might recognise some of the themes explored here.
22John5918
Between 'swarms' and 'security': How media report on migration (Al Jazeera)
migration and the media's role in framing this era-defining story
migration and the media's role in framing this era-defining story
23margd
Boy, if you wanted evidence that refugees at s border is political issue for WH,
not one that they sincerely want to solve by investing in Central America and by working with Congress:
White House Considered Releasing Migrants in ‘Sanctuary Cities’
Michael D. Shear and Zolan Kanno-Youngs | April 11, 2019
WASHINGTON — President Trump’s top aides considered an idea to pressure immigration agencies to release apprehended migrants into so-called sanctuary cities represented by Democratic lawmakers, according to several people familiar with the proposal.
...In the email dated Nov. 16, with the subject line “Sanctuary City Proposal,” May Davis, the deputy White House policy coordinator, raised the idea with officials from the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Protection.
Ms. Davis suggested that migrants who had been apprehended and were slated to be released into border towns could instead be taken to one of several sanctuary cities, which limit how local law enforcement can cooperate with federal immigration officers.
The proponents of the idea inside the White House argued at the time that it would help with overcrowding at nonprofit shelters in border towns by transferring the migrants to cities that already embrace the idea of having more immigrants, one official said.
Once there, the migrants would be released onto the streets — potentially sending a message to the Democratic politicians who oppose Mr. Trump’s immigration agenda and his demands for a wall along the border with Mexico...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/us/politics/white-house-migrants-sanctuary-ci...
not one that they sincerely want to solve by investing in Central America and by working with Congress:
White House Considered Releasing Migrants in ‘Sanctuary Cities’
Michael D. Shear and Zolan Kanno-Youngs | April 11, 2019
WASHINGTON — President Trump’s top aides considered an idea to pressure immigration agencies to release apprehended migrants into so-called sanctuary cities represented by Democratic lawmakers, according to several people familiar with the proposal.
...In the email dated Nov. 16, with the subject line “Sanctuary City Proposal,” May Davis, the deputy White House policy coordinator, raised the idea with officials from the Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Protection.
Ms. Davis suggested that migrants who had been apprehended and were slated to be released into border towns could instead be taken to one of several sanctuary cities, which limit how local law enforcement can cooperate with federal immigration officers.
The proponents of the idea inside the White House argued at the time that it would help with overcrowding at nonprofit shelters in border towns by transferring the migrants to cities that already embrace the idea of having more immigrants, one official said.
Once there, the migrants would be released onto the streets — potentially sending a message to the Democratic politicians who oppose Mr. Trump’s immigration agenda and his demands for a wall along the border with Mexico...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/us/politics/white-house-migrants-sanctuary-ci...
24margd
IMPEACHABLE if Trump actually attempts to punishes his political opponents by using legally refugee applicants as May Davis, deputy WH policy coordinator, proposed in November: that migrants be "bused to (one of several) small- and mid-sized sanctuary cities"... Once there, the migrants would be released onto the streets. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/us/politics/sanctuary-cities-trump.html . Surely even Trump isn't that dumb? Cruel enough, no doubt, but not that dumb?
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump | 9:38 AM - 12 Apr 2019:
Due to the fact that Democrats are unwilling to change our very dangerous immigration laws,
we are indeed, as reported, giving strong considerations to placing Illegal Immigrants in Sanctuary Cities only....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(((Rep. Nadler))) @RepJerryNadler | 1:00 PM - 12 Apr 2019:
What the President is talking about here is spending taxpayer dollars to use immigrant families—mothers, fathers and young children—as pawns for political retribution. This is both morally repugnant and probably illegal.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seattle isn’t afraid of immigrants, Mr. Trump
Jenny A. Durkan | April 12 at 7:05 PM
Here’s a message to President Trump: Seattle is not afraid of immigrants and refugees. In fact, we have always welcomed people who have faced tremendous hardships around the world. Immigrants and refugees are part of Seattle’s heritage, and they will continue to make us the city of the future.
What does scare us? A president and federal government that would seek to weaponize a law enforcement agency to punish perceived political enemies. A would-be despot who thinks the rule of law does not apply to him...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/seattle-isnt-afraid-of-immigrants-mr-tru...
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump | 9:38 AM - 12 Apr 2019:
Due to the fact that Democrats are unwilling to change our very dangerous immigration laws,
we are indeed, as reported, giving strong considerations to placing Illegal Immigrants in Sanctuary Cities only....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(((Rep. Nadler))) @RepJerryNadler | 1:00 PM - 12 Apr 2019:
What the President is talking about here is spending taxpayer dollars to use immigrant families—mothers, fathers and young children—as pawns for political retribution. This is both morally repugnant and probably illegal.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seattle isn’t afraid of immigrants, Mr. Trump
Jenny A. Durkan | April 12 at 7:05 PM
Here’s a message to President Trump: Seattle is not afraid of immigrants and refugees. In fact, we have always welcomed people who have faced tremendous hardships around the world. Immigrants and refugees are part of Seattle’s heritage, and they will continue to make us the city of the future.
What does scare us? A president and federal government that would seek to weaponize a law enforcement agency to punish perceived political enemies. A would-be despot who thinks the rule of law does not apply to him...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/seattle-isnt-afraid-of-immigrants-mr-tru...
25John5918
A couple of positive immigration stories from al Jazeera - not in the USA, though.
After almost dying at sea, refugees learn to love the water
Survivors in Sicily, some of whom witnessed others perish, are integrating with locals and getting back in the sea
This Colombian woman shelters 150 Venezuelans every day
When Maria del Pilar Figueroa saw fleeing Venezuelans passing by her home in Colombia on foot, she had to do something
After almost dying at sea, refugees learn to love the water
Survivors in Sicily, some of whom witnessed others perish, are integrating with locals and getting back in the sea
This Colombian woman shelters 150 Venezuelans every day
When Maria del Pilar Figueroa saw fleeing Venezuelans passing by her home in Colombia on foot, she had to do something
26John5918
Militia detains migrants at gunpoint along the US-Mexico border (BBC)
A video has emerged of armed right-wing militia members stopping over 300 migrants as they cross the Mexico border into the US state of New Mexico...
A video has emerged of armed right-wing militia members stopping over 300 migrants as they cross the Mexico border into the US state of New Mexico...
27John5918
US arrests 'member of border militia' in New Mexico (BBC)
US authorities have arrested an alleged member of a militia that has been stopping migrants trying to cross the US-Mexico border.
Larry Mitchell Hopkins, 69, was detained in New Mexico as a felon in possession of a weapon.
It comes just days after a video emerged of militia members detaining dozens of migrants in the desert...
US authorities have arrested an alleged member of a militia that has been stopping migrants trying to cross the US-Mexico border.
Larry Mitchell Hopkins, 69, was detained in New Mexico as a felon in possession of a weapon.
It comes just days after a video emerged of militia members detaining dozens of migrants in the desert...
28John5918
Not the USA, but again a similar dynamic of "overblown" claims by right wing groups:
What’s behind talk of a ‘migratory crisis’ in Spain (The New Humanitarian)
Border guards in southern Spain are bracing for another spike in migrant arrivals from North Africa, but government officials and the UN say talk of a “crisis” in the run-up to Sunday’s general election – encouraged by far-right parties – is premature and overblown...
What’s behind talk of a ‘migratory crisis’ in Spain (The New Humanitarian)
Border guards in southern Spain are bracing for another spike in migrant arrivals from North Africa, but government officials and the UN say talk of a “crisis” in the run-up to Sunday’s general election – encouraged by far-right parties – is premature and overblown...
29John5918
Pope donates $500,000 for migrants stranded in Mexico (BBC)
A statement said vital aid for the migrants was falling...
The Pope has previously criticised US President Donald Trump's aim of building a wall to keep migrants out...
"All these people were stranded, unable to enter the United States, without a home or livelihood. The Catholic Church hosts thousands of them in the hotels within dioceses or religious congregations, providing basic necessities, from housing to clothing"...
A statement said vital aid for the migrants was falling...
The Pope has previously criticised US President Donald Trump's aim of building a wall to keep migrants out...
"All these people were stranded, unable to enter the United States, without a home or livelihood. The Catholic Church hosts thousands of them in the hotels within dioceses or religious congregations, providing basic necessities, from housing to clothing"...
30margd
Asylum Seekers Face New Restraints Under Latest Trump Orders
Zolan Kanno-Youngs and Caitlin Dickerson | April 29, 2019
...In a memo sent to Kevin McAleenan, the acting secretary of homeland security, and Attorney General William P. Barr, the president took another step to reshape asylum law, which is determined by Congress, from the White House.
The restrictions do not take effect immediately. Mr. Trump gave administration officials 90 days to draw up regulations that would carry out his orders. They would be among the first significant changes to asylum policy since Mr. McAleenan replaced Kirstjen Nielsen as head of homeland security and the president signaled he would take a tougher stance on the asylum seekers swamping the border.
The administration has already tried to restrict the number of migrants who can apply for asylum per day, who qualifies for asylum and where they must wait for a resolution — immigration policies that have been the subject of multiple federal court cases.
...The memo did not make clear how the plans would be carried out in immigration courts...specifically called for the authorities to set a fee for asylum seekers filing their claims and for their work permit applications.
Migrants who have entered or tried to enter the United States illegally would also be barred from receiving a work permit until their claims are adjudicated.
Fewer migrants try to cross the border now than in the early 2000s. But the demographics have shifted...Central America...The sheer number of families has overwhelmed the system, and because of rules that prohibit holding children in detention for more than 20 days, some families are released into communities along the border.
More than 103,000 migrants crossed the southwestern border in March without authorization, an increase from the more than 76,000 who crossed in February. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as ICE, is currently housing more than 50,000 migrants, one of the highest numbers on record, and about 5,000 more than the congressionally mandated limit of 45,274.
...While most asylum seekers pass their initial interview with an asylum officer, only about 20 percent ultimately win the right to live and work in the United States. Applicants must show evidence of past persecution and establish a “well founded” fear that they would face danger if they returned home.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/us/politics/trump-asylum.html
ETA_______________________________________________________
New Asylum Limits: A Balancing Act for the Homeland Security Secretary
Peter Margulies | May 1, 2019
...DHS and the Justice Department must confine themselves to existing statutory authorities in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and must solicit input from stakeholders before the proposed rules become final—a procedure called “Notice and Comment” under the Administrative Procedure Act (APA) governing federal agencies. Once the rules become final, they are subject to challenge in the courts.
Stakeholders will surely convey to DHS and the Justice Department that restricting work permits and imposing fees will harm genuine asylum seekers....
Barring work permits for those who entered the U.S. illegally, instead of presenting themselves at a port of entry, would single out applicants for reasons unrelated to the merits of their claims...
DHS might respond that cutting all adjudication times to 180 days, as Trump’s memo also directs, will eliminate this harm. However, ...Congress already requires adjudication within this time frame.
Charging a fee for asylum claims would trigger similar hardships, depending on the fee involved...
...White House immigration adviser Stephen Miller has already expressed impatience with the deliberation required by the APA’s (Administrative Procedure Act (APA) governing federal agencies) notice and comment procedures. Only time will tell if DHS Secretary McAleenan can manage to stay in the good graces of both the White House and Congress while withstanding challenges in the courts.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/new-asylum-limits-balancing-act-homeland-security-se...
Zolan Kanno-Youngs and Caitlin Dickerson | April 29, 2019
...In a memo sent to Kevin McAleenan, the acting secretary of homeland security, and Attorney General William P. Barr, the president took another step to reshape asylum law, which is determined by Congress, from the White House.
The restrictions do not take effect immediately. Mr. Trump gave administration officials 90 days to draw up regulations that would carry out his orders. They would be among the first significant changes to asylum policy since Mr. McAleenan replaced Kirstjen Nielsen as head of homeland security and the president signaled he would take a tougher stance on the asylum seekers swamping the border.
The administration has already tried to restrict the number of migrants who can apply for asylum per day, who qualifies for asylum and where they must wait for a resolution — immigration policies that have been the subject of multiple federal court cases.
...The memo did not make clear how the plans would be carried out in immigration courts...specifically called for the authorities to set a fee for asylum seekers filing their claims and for their work permit applications.
Migrants who have entered or tried to enter the United States illegally would also be barred from receiving a work permit until their claims are adjudicated.
Fewer migrants try to cross the border now than in the early 2000s. But the demographics have shifted...Central America...The sheer number of families has overwhelmed the system, and because of rules that prohibit holding children in detention for more than 20 days, some families are released into communities along the border.
More than 103,000 migrants crossed the southwestern border in March without authorization, an increase from the more than 76,000 who crossed in February. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, also known as ICE, is currently housing more than 50,000 migrants, one of the highest numbers on record, and about 5,000 more than the congressionally mandated limit of 45,274.
...While most asylum seekers pass their initial interview with an asylum officer, only about 20 percent ultimately win the right to live and work in the United States. Applicants must show evidence of past persecution and establish a “well founded” fear that they would face danger if they returned home.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/us/politics/trump-asylum.html
ETA_______________________________________________________
New Asylum Limits: A Balancing Act for the Homeland Security Secretary
Peter Margulies | May 1, 2019
...DHS and the Justice Department must confine themselves to existing statutory authorities in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and must solicit input from stakeholders before the proposed rules become final—a procedure called “Notice and Comment” under the Administrative Procedure Act (APA) governing federal agencies. Once the rules become final, they are subject to challenge in the courts.
Stakeholders will surely convey to DHS and the Justice Department that restricting work permits and imposing fees will harm genuine asylum seekers....
Barring work permits for those who entered the U.S. illegally, instead of presenting themselves at a port of entry, would single out applicants for reasons unrelated to the merits of their claims...
DHS might respond that cutting all adjudication times to 180 days, as Trump’s memo also directs, will eliminate this harm. However, ...Congress already requires adjudication within this time frame.
Charging a fee for asylum claims would trigger similar hardships, depending on the fee involved...
...White House immigration adviser Stephen Miller has already expressed impatience with the deliberation required by the APA’s (Administrative Procedure Act (APA) governing federal agencies) notice and comment procedures. Only time will tell if DHS Secretary McAleenan can manage to stay in the good graces of both the White House and Congress while withstanding challenges in the courts.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/new-asylum-limits-balancing-act-homeland-security-se...
31margd
Enforcement really needs to go after the employers. Then we would see quick, realistic fixes.
At Trump golf course, undocumented employees said they were sometimes told to work extra hours without pay
Joshua Partlow and David A. Fahrenthold | April 30, 2019
...Allegations that workers were routinely shortchanged on their pay at President Trump’s suburban country club are now the subject of an inquiry by the New York attorney general, whose investigators have interviewed more than two dozen former employees.
The inquiry could raise awkward political questions for Trump, who has made stopping illegal immigration a centerpiece of his presidency and his reelection campaign but faces allegations that his business benefited from low-paid undocumented workers.
...nearly 30 former employees at Trump’s golf courses in New York who met with prosecutors in February. They handed over pay stubs and W-2 forms and answered questions about their salaries, hours, tips and lack of benefits in one-on-one interviews over many hours, according to several workers. Some have follow-up meetings scheduled in coming weeks.
...Many who met with investigators were among those who were fired as part of a companywide purge of unauthorized workers earlier this year.
...over the years, (Trump's) company has routinely relied on that same low-wage, illegal labor, and his company has not explained how some employees kept their jobs for years despite lacking proper papers. Since December, The Post has spoken with 36 such people, who worked at four Trump golf courses and country clubs as well as a personal hunting lodge that his two adult sons own in Upstate New York.
..One former manager from the Westchester club, who said he thought the undocumented workers at the club were exploited, described an environment where — in managers’ meetings — it was clear that supervisors not only knew these workers lacked authentic documents but used that information to meet the company’s cost-cutting goals.
The former manager said that “The City” — the club’s word for bosses at Trump Tower in Manhattan — was constantly demanding a reduction in overtime costs.
The solution, going back a decade at least, the former manager said, was to pressure the undocumented workers...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-trump-golf-course-undocumented-employ...
At Trump golf course, undocumented employees said they were sometimes told to work extra hours without pay
Joshua Partlow and David A. Fahrenthold | April 30, 2019
...Allegations that workers were routinely shortchanged on their pay at President Trump’s suburban country club are now the subject of an inquiry by the New York attorney general, whose investigators have interviewed more than two dozen former employees.
The inquiry could raise awkward political questions for Trump, who has made stopping illegal immigration a centerpiece of his presidency and his reelection campaign but faces allegations that his business benefited from low-paid undocumented workers.
...nearly 30 former employees at Trump’s golf courses in New York who met with prosecutors in February. They handed over pay stubs and W-2 forms and answered questions about their salaries, hours, tips and lack of benefits in one-on-one interviews over many hours, according to several workers. Some have follow-up meetings scheduled in coming weeks.
...Many who met with investigators were among those who were fired as part of a companywide purge of unauthorized workers earlier this year.
...over the years, (Trump's) company has routinely relied on that same low-wage, illegal labor, and his company has not explained how some employees kept their jobs for years despite lacking proper papers. Since December, The Post has spoken with 36 such people, who worked at four Trump golf courses and country clubs as well as a personal hunting lodge that his two adult sons own in Upstate New York.
..One former manager from the Westchester club, who said he thought the undocumented workers at the club were exploited, described an environment where — in managers’ meetings — it was clear that supervisors not only knew these workers lacked authentic documents but used that information to meet the company’s cost-cutting goals.
The former manager said that “The City” — the club’s word for bosses at Trump Tower in Manhattan — was constantly demanding a reduction in overtime costs.
The solution, going back a decade at least, the former manager said, was to pressure the undocumented workers...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-trump-golf-course-undocumented-employ...
32margd
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Trumpians: NOT! No lamp, no golden door. No initial help to get established in your new home?
Exclusive - Trump administration proposal would make it easier to deport immigrants who use public benefits
Yeganeh Torbati, Reuters | May 4 12:36
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Trump administration is considering reversing long-standing policy to make it easier to deport U.S. legal permanent residents who have used public benefits, part of an effort to restrict immigration by low-income people.
...While the plan is at an early stage, might not become official government policy, and is likely to attract lawsuits, it is one part of efforts by the Trump administration to restrict legal immigration, in addition to its efforts to reduce illegal immigration to the United States...
...The public benefits in question include Supplemental Security Income (SSI), given to disabled and older people; the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program (SNAP), commonly known as food stamps; Section 8 housing vouchers; many Medicaid benefits; and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), a cash assistance programme.
According to federal policy, many permanent residents do not qualify for public benefits unless they have had a green card for five years, making it unlikely they could be targeted for deportation on the basis of "public charge" even under the draft rule.
But dozens of states have looser rules - for instance, allowing pregnant women and children who are permanent residents to access Medicaid without a waiting period.
And the effort to tighten the rules could affect thousands of immigrant veterans, refugees and asylees, who are eligible to receive many benefits without time restrictions. Active members of the military would not be affected.
..While DHS can decide whether to grant or deny immigration benefits, DOJ's immigration judges can also decide whether a resident ought to be deported.
The DHS is expected soon to tighten regulations so that a "public charge" would be any foreigner "who receives one or more public benefits," including an array of cash and non-cash benefits, such as food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.
The DOJ's draft proposal mirrors that and also directs immigration judges to consider the use of public benefits as a heavily weighted negative factor when determining whether to admit a foreigner to the United States.
The State Department is also trying to restrict entry to the United States of people it suspects might use public benefits...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-trump-administration-proposal-easier-deport...
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Trumpians: NOT! No lamp, no golden door. No initial help to get established in your new home?
Exclusive - Trump administration proposal would make it easier to deport immigrants who use public benefits
Yeganeh Torbati, Reuters | May 4 12:36
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Trump administration is considering reversing long-standing policy to make it easier to deport U.S. legal permanent residents who have used public benefits, part of an effort to restrict immigration by low-income people.
...While the plan is at an early stage, might not become official government policy, and is likely to attract lawsuits, it is one part of efforts by the Trump administration to restrict legal immigration, in addition to its efforts to reduce illegal immigration to the United States...
...The public benefits in question include Supplemental Security Income (SSI), given to disabled and older people; the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program (SNAP), commonly known as food stamps; Section 8 housing vouchers; many Medicaid benefits; and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), a cash assistance programme.
According to federal policy, many permanent residents do not qualify for public benefits unless they have had a green card for five years, making it unlikely they could be targeted for deportation on the basis of "public charge" even under the draft rule.
But dozens of states have looser rules - for instance, allowing pregnant women and children who are permanent residents to access Medicaid without a waiting period.
And the effort to tighten the rules could affect thousands of immigrant veterans, refugees and asylees, who are eligible to receive many benefits without time restrictions. Active members of the military would not be affected.
..While DHS can decide whether to grant or deny immigration benefits, DOJ's immigration judges can also decide whether a resident ought to be deported.
The DHS is expected soon to tighten regulations so that a "public charge" would be any foreigner "who receives one or more public benefits," including an array of cash and non-cash benefits, such as food stamps, housing vouchers, and Medicaid.
The DOJ's draft proposal mirrors that and also directs immigration judges to consider the use of public benefits as a heavily weighted negative factor when determining whether to admit a foreigner to the United States.
The State Department is also trying to restrict entry to the United States of people it suspects might use public benefits...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-trump-administration-proposal-easier-deport...
33proximity1
"No initial help to get established in your new home?"
I got none. I left the U.S., entered a foreign country, legally, stayed there, legally, got a job, legally, and lived for years there. At no time was I offered any official government "help to get established in" "my" "new home"--or to remain there beyond the point where I could support myself without recourse to the government's aid to the poor or jobless. It wasn't, after all, "my new home" unless I could manage to make it that without the host nation's making my difficulties in doing so its own problems --for, after all, why should it? No one had asked me to come there. Going there was my own idea and, the way I figured it, solving the problems of figuring out how to remain without government-aid was my problem to work out.
And no one in this foreign land ever apologized for the fact that I wasn't offered any "help to get established in" "my" "new home".
No one ever said the local-language equivalent of : "Well! I never! "How dare they!?" "You ought to sue!"
"The State Department is also trying to restrict entry to the United States of people it suspects might use public benefits"
... "part of an effort to restrict immigration by low-income people."
And this is bad because...?
"DOJ's immigration judges can also decide whether a resident ought to be deported."
And who else ought to decide "whether a resident ought to be deported" ?
Oh, and, by the way, "margd", the foreign land to which I refer above? the one which offered me "no initial help to get established in (my) new home?" It's known (in English) as "France"— the nation which made a gift of the statue at the base of which one finds the famous words you cited—
There's a smaller-scale replica of that statue
in Paris on the southeast end of the Île aux Cygnes in the river Seine.
I got none. I left the U.S., entered a foreign country, legally, stayed there, legally, got a job, legally, and lived for years there. At no time was I offered any official government "help to get established in" "my" "new home"--or to remain there beyond the point where I could support myself without recourse to the government's aid to the poor or jobless. It wasn't, after all, "my new home" unless I could manage to make it that without the host nation's making my difficulties in doing so its own problems --for, after all, why should it? No one had asked me to come there. Going there was my own idea and, the way I figured it, solving the problems of figuring out how to remain without government-aid was my problem to work out.
And no one in this foreign land ever apologized for the fact that I wasn't offered any "help to get established in" "my" "new home".
No one ever said the local-language equivalent of : "Well! I never! "How dare they!?" "You ought to sue!"
"The State Department is also trying to restrict entry to the United States of people it suspects might use public benefits"
... "part of an effort to restrict immigration by low-income people."
And this is bad because...?
"DOJ's immigration judges can also decide whether a resident ought to be deported."
And who else ought to decide "whether a resident ought to be deported" ?
Oh, and, by the way, "margd", the foreign land to which I refer above? the one which offered me "no initial help to get established in (my) new home?" It's known (in English) as "France"— the nation which made a gift of the statue at the base of which one finds the famous words you cited—
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
There's a smaller-scale replica of that statue
in Paris on the southeast end of the Île aux Cygnes in the river Seine.
34RickHarsch
>33 proximity1: After that self-servery, allow me to present my own experience in Slovenia. Nobody helped my off the plane, nobody helped me out of the car...
Someone helped me get residency through the ministry of culture, and when injured the health system covered all, and all along the health system has provided me free medication, and the school system is freely helping my children with all they need, and the government gives my family about 100 euros a month for each kid, and I have been on welfare Slovene style, and have gotten unemployment pay, and free language classes, andddddddd
I am proud to be dependent.
Someone helped me get residency through the ministry of culture, and when injured the health system covered all, and all along the health system has provided me free medication, and the school system is freely helping my children with all they need, and the government gives my family about 100 euros a month for each kid, and I have been on welfare Slovene style, and have gotten unemployment pay, and free language classes, andddddddd
I am proud to be dependent.
35mamzel
>34 RickHarsch: I'm not saying this snidely, but it's too bad the Central Americans can't get to Slovenia instead of the crap they have to face to enter the U.S. It's too bad the powers-that-be can't take a lesson from other countries. I have no doubt you and your children will come to be model citizens of your new country and pay back with interest all the assistance you have received.
36John5918
Interesting article on "the entrepreneurial drive of so many refugees, despite their circumstances"...
In a Kenyan refugee camp, business ideas but little access to credit (The New Humanitarian)
In a Kenyan refugee camp, business ideas but little access to credit (The New Humanitarian)
38John5918
There's an interesting article in Sudan Studies for South Sudan and Sudan #59 January 2019 entitled "Tongue-tied: How interpreting errors hurt Sudanese asylum cases". The author, Peter Verney (an old friend of mine, with thirty or forty years experience of helping Sudanese asylum seekers in UK after he spent several years working in Sudan), looks at the difficulties faced by Arabic-speaking asylum seekers. Relatively few Arabs speak Modern Standard Arabic, and every Arabic-speaking country has its own different dialect, with its own vocabulary, grammar and idioms, often incomprehensible to other Arabic speakers. Finding interpreters who speak that particular dialect is extremely difficult, and interpretation is often done over the phone which adds another level of potential misunderstanding. Different interpreters dealing with the same case may give different translations of the same story, leading to accusations that the asylum seeker is inconsistent and not believable. And in a country like Sudan which also has tribal languages, Arabic may only be the second language of the asylum seeker and he or she may not even be fluent in the national Arabic dialect. Even when the asylum seeker speaks a little English, it may be completely misunderstod by a native English speaker who has had no exposure to the way English is spoken in many non English speaking countries. Add to this the cultural, geographic, religious, demographic, political, historical and other forms of ignorance about Sudan on the part of both interpreters and government officials, and it leads to many genuine asylum cases being rejected.
Might one fear that similar dynamics might be at play for asylum seekers in other destination countries (including the USA), and from other complicated countries apart from Sudan?
I'm afraid I only have a hard copy of the magazine (which has only just arrived despite being dated January 2019) and I have no idea whether or not it is available online.
Might one fear that similar dynamics might be at play for asylum seekers in other destination countries (including the USA), and from other complicated countries apart from Sudan?
I'm afraid I only have a hard copy of the magazine (which has only just arrived despite being dated January 2019) and I have no idea whether or not it is available online.
39proximity1
follow-up to >33 proximity1:
_______________________
(emphasis added)
Not only was Auster’s observation quite apt, it points up the idiocy (on display in this thread) from the rank sentimentalists (who understand fuck all about the facts behind this, their kooky view) which has ensued.
Just as Auster’s comment indicates, the statue was intended as a tribute to “liberty” itself and and was in no way supposed to indicate that “liberty” had one special locale. Indeed, that idiotic view turns this, the real, point of the gift from France into stupid mush. The gift from France recognized what Americans then had so far achieved, not what “they (Americans themselves) were” in some inherent sense.
Lazarus’ poem itself does not correspond well either with the sentimentalist rot that has come to surround it. Lazarus’ point, too, obviously, was also about “liberty” the concept, and not the United States as a supposed bastion of liberty, for, very frankly, FFS, in 1903, when the poem's text was cast into bronze plaque and placed at the base of the statue, Americans had already largely ‘closed the door’ on mass-immigration (and that’s good!)— it just wasn’t one for Americans themselves living there at the time; and yet, God help us!,we have some kind of weird cause to envy that time for some things about what was then still possible.
Read reasonably, Lazarus is referring to “Liberty” ’personified’ and obviously neither referring to any real person or any real place. Lazarus had no “torch,” and she certainly had no “golden door.” Though the statue holds a torch, in the poem, these figure metaphorically, not literally.
What was intended by the gift from France was that other people should be inspired, sure!, but not inspired to cast off their hope of living in liberty in their own home lands, and thus pack up their little bundles, tie them to a stick and board a ship bound for New York, but inspired, rather, to create for themselves, in their own lands, this so-much-to-be-cherished “liberty” as they wished to make it—all the better because their liberty, won, rather than moved-into, would be theirs and their own source of national pride.
The stupid cult of a re-opened and indiscriminate immigration ignores all of that and preempts all the beneficial possibilities for, again, what amounts to sentimentalist bullshit—so characteristic of so much of muddle-headed pseudo-liberal morons’ activism.
God fucking help us!
"The New Colossus" is a sonnet that American poet Emma Lazarus (1849–1887) wrote in 1883 to raise money for the construction of a pedestal for the Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World).(2) In 1903, the poem was cast onto a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal's lower level.”
“This poem was written as a donation to an auction of art and literary works” …
________________________
… (Cited at Wikipedia’s pages on Emma Lazarus’ poem “The New Colossus” (“Influence”) :
“Paul Auster wrote that "Bartholdi's gigantic effigy was originally intended as a monument to the principles of international republicanism but 'The New Colossus' reinvented the statue's purpose, turning Liberty into a welcoming mother, a symbol of hope to the outcasts and downtrodden of the world."
" 'The New Colossus' was the first entry read at the exhibit's opening on November 2, 1883. It remained associated with the exhibit through a published catalog until the exhibit closed after the pedestal was fully funded in August 1885,(6)(7) but was forgotten and played no role at the opening of the statue in 1886. It was, however, published in Joseph Pulitzer's New York World as well as The New York Times during this time period.(8) In 1901, Lazarus's friend Georgina Schuyler began an effort to memorialize Lazarus and her poem, which succeeded in 1903 when a plaque bearing the text of the poem was put on the inner wall of the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty."
_______________________
(emphasis added)
Not only was Auster’s observation quite apt, it points up the idiocy (on display in this thread) from the rank sentimentalists (who understand fuck all about the facts behind this, their kooky view) which has ensued.
Just as Auster’s comment indicates, the statue was intended as a tribute to “liberty” itself and and was in no way supposed to indicate that “liberty” had one special locale. Indeed, that idiotic view turns this, the real, point of the gift from France into stupid mush. The gift from France recognized what Americans then had so far achieved, not what “they (Americans themselves) were” in some inherent sense.
Lazarus’ poem itself does not correspond well either with the sentimentalist rot that has come to surround it. Lazarus’ point, too, obviously, was also about “liberty” the concept, and not the United States as a supposed bastion of liberty, for, very frankly, FFS, in 1903, when the poem's text was cast into bronze plaque and placed at the base of the statue, Americans had already largely ‘closed the door’ on mass-immigration (and that’s good!)— it just wasn’t one for Americans themselves living there at the time; and yet, God help us!,we have some kind of weird cause to envy that time for some things about what was then still possible.
Read reasonably, Lazarus is referring to “Liberty” ’personified’ and obviously neither referring to any real person or any real place. Lazarus had no “torch,” and she certainly had no “golden door.” Though the statue holds a torch, in the poem, these figure metaphorically, not literally.
What was intended by the gift from France was that other people should be inspired, sure!, but not inspired to cast off their hope of living in liberty in their own home lands, and thus pack up their little bundles, tie them to a stick and board a ship bound for New York, but inspired, rather, to create for themselves, in their own lands, this so-much-to-be-cherished “liberty” as they wished to make it—all the better because their liberty, won, rather than moved-into, would be theirs and their own source of national pride.
The stupid cult of a re-opened and indiscriminate immigration ignores all of that and preempts all the beneficial possibilities for, again, what amounts to sentimentalist bullshit—so characteristic of so much of muddle-headed pseudo-liberal morons’ activism.
God fucking help us!
40MMcM
> available online
Apparently only to SSSUK members: http://www.sssuk.org/drupalSite/system/files/private/accessible_by_authenticated...
Apparently only to SSSUK members: http://www.sssuk.org/drupalSite/system/files/private/accessible_by_authenticated...
41proximity1
>40 MMcM:
Okay, "I'll bite" : What are SSSUK members and why is this member-only-accessible link pertinent here?
Okay, "I'll bite" : What are SSSUK members and why is this member-only-accessible link pertinent here?
42John5918
>41 proximity1:
The Society for the Study of the Sudans UK (SSSUK) is a UK-based professional association for scholars of Sudan and South Sudan. I'm a member. It's referred to in >38 John5918:, to which >40 MMcM: is responding.
The Society for the Study of the Sudans UK (SSSUK) is a UK-based professional association for scholars of Sudan and South Sudan. I'm a member. It's referred to in >38 John5918:, to which >40 MMcM: is responding.
43RickHarsch
>35 mamzel: I appreciate your post. Mine did call for such a comparison. I only indulged in order to provide a counter to another post. What I mean to say is that there is nothing wrong with 'taking' from the government of a new country. Otherwise what is the point of government, civilization? My good fortune is that my migration was motivated by a combination of emotional and intellectual need, not a more basic one such a hunger or fear of persecution.
So as there is nothing wrong with taking, there is nothing wrong with giving, taking in and giving. But this is kind of pointless to say, as anyone who doesn'tknow that the US has created more migration this century by far than any other country is unlikely to have the kind spirit to receive suffering migrants with generosity.
So as there is nothing wrong with taking, there is nothing wrong with giving, taking in and giving. But this is kind of pointless to say, as anyone who doesn'tknow that the US has created more migration this century by far than any other country is unlikely to have the kind spirit to receive suffering migrants with generosity.
44bnielsen
>42 John5918: Just for the record there's a similar discussion in Denmark right now, because official translation has been outsourced to a private company. The discussion is about pay and availability and the quality of the translations both in the medical and the legal system.
45margd
Holger Zschaepitz @Schuldensuehner | 10:48 PM - 14 May 2019
US births fall to lowest rates since 1980s. Number of babies born fell to 3.8 million in 2018, 32y low, deepening fertility slump that is reshaping America’s future workforce. Expectation that births would rebound from GFC as econ recovered not materialize https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-births-fall-to-lowest-rates-since-1980s-1155789...
US births fall to lowest rates since 1980s. Number of babies born fell to 3.8 million in 2018, 32y low, deepening fertility slump that is reshaping America’s future workforce. Expectation that births would rebound from GFC as econ recovered not materialize https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-births-fall-to-lowest-rates-since-1980s-1155789...
46margd
Trump sending ‘500 migrants a month’ to Florida Democratic strongholds
MATT DIXON | 05/16/2019
TALLAHASSEE — President Donald Trump‘s plans to send potentially hundreds of undocumented immigrants each month to the Democratic strongholds of Broward and Palm Beach counties ignited a torrent of criticism from local Florida officials who called the move political.
“The blatant politics, sending them to the two most Democratic Counties in the state of Florida, is ridiculous,” said state Sen. Gary Farmer, a Democrat who represents portions of Broward County. “You can’t make this stuff up.”
Broward County officials described the plans Thursday in a press release, saying the Trump administration plans to release asylum seekers caught along the southern U.S. border into the county. A month earlier, Trump floated the idea of shipping undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities that limit their cooperation with federal immigration enforcement. Neither Palm Beach nor Broward counties fit that description, but politically they're enemy territory for Trump and Republicans.
...Broward County state Rep. Evan Jenne, opposed the move but said the county will do what it can to help those sent its way...
https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2019/05/16/trump-sending-500-migra...
_______________________________________________________________
I was just reading about the Irish famine that sent refugees pouring into eastern Canada and the United States in the 1840s--2,500 arrived in Kingston (then capital of English Canada) per week in August 1847! Too many died of typhus in "fever shed" quarantine. Inspiring, though, to read of Protestants joining with Catholics in Kingston to care (and die) for the ill. At the time, Protestants and Catholics had less use for each other than Democrats and Republicans today...
MATT DIXON | 05/16/2019
TALLAHASSEE — President Donald Trump‘s plans to send potentially hundreds of undocumented immigrants each month to the Democratic strongholds of Broward and Palm Beach counties ignited a torrent of criticism from local Florida officials who called the move political.
“The blatant politics, sending them to the two most Democratic Counties in the state of Florida, is ridiculous,” said state Sen. Gary Farmer, a Democrat who represents portions of Broward County. “You can’t make this stuff up.”
Broward County officials described the plans Thursday in a press release, saying the Trump administration plans to release asylum seekers caught along the southern U.S. border into the county. A month earlier, Trump floated the idea of shipping undocumented immigrants to sanctuary cities that limit their cooperation with federal immigration enforcement. Neither Palm Beach nor Broward counties fit that description, but politically they're enemy territory for Trump and Republicans.
...Broward County state Rep. Evan Jenne, opposed the move but said the county will do what it can to help those sent its way...
https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2019/05/16/trump-sending-500-migra...
_______________________________________________________________
I was just reading about the Irish famine that sent refugees pouring into eastern Canada and the United States in the 1840s--2,500 arrived in Kingston (then capital of English Canada) per week in August 1847! Too many died of typhus in "fever shed" quarantine. Inspiring, though, to read of Protestants joining with Catholics in Kingston to care (and die) for the ill. At the time, Protestants and Catholics had less use for each other than Democrats and Republicans today...
50margd
#6 citizenship question on census, contd.
Deceased G.O.P. Strategist’s Hard Drives Reveal New Details on the Census Citizenship Question
Michael Wines | May 30, 2019
WASHINGTON — Thomas B. Hofeller achieved near-mythic status in the Republican Party as the Michelangelo of gerrymandering, the architect of partisan political maps that cemented the party’s dominance across the country.
But after he died last summer, his estranged daughter discovered hard drives in her father’s home that revealed something else: Mr. Hofeller had played a crucial role in the Trump administration’s decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census.
Files on those drives showed that he wrote a study in 2015 concluding that adding a citizenship question to the census would allow Republicans to draft even more extreme gerrymandered maps to stymie Democrats. And months after urging President Trump’s transition team to tack the question onto the census, he wrote the key portion of a draft Justice Department letter claiming the question was needed to enforce the 1965 Voting Rights Act — the rationale the administration later used to justify its decision.
Those documents, cited in a federal court filing Thursday by opponents seeking to block the citizenship question, have emerged only weeks before the Supreme Court is expected to rule on the legality of the citizenship question. Critics say adding the question would deter many immigrants from being counted and shift political power to Republican areas...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/census-citizenship-question-hofeller.html
Deceased G.O.P. Strategist’s Hard Drives Reveal New Details on the Census Citizenship Question
Michael Wines | May 30, 2019
WASHINGTON — Thomas B. Hofeller achieved near-mythic status in the Republican Party as the Michelangelo of gerrymandering, the architect of partisan political maps that cemented the party’s dominance across the country.
But after he died last summer, his estranged daughter discovered hard drives in her father’s home that revealed something else: Mr. Hofeller had played a crucial role in the Trump administration’s decision to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census.
Files on those drives showed that he wrote a study in 2015 concluding that adding a citizenship question to the census would allow Republicans to draft even more extreme gerrymandered maps to stymie Democrats. And months after urging President Trump’s transition team to tack the question onto the census, he wrote the key portion of a draft Justice Department letter claiming the question was needed to enforce the 1965 Voting Rights Act — the rationale the administration later used to justify its decision.
Those documents, cited in a federal court filing Thursday by opponents seeking to block the citizenship question, have emerged only weeks before the Supreme Court is expected to rule on the legality of the citizenship question. Critics say adding the question would deter many immigrants from being counted and shift political power to Republican areas...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/census-citizenship-question-hofeller.html
51margd
Just like the big orangutan...
15 monkeys die due to heat stroke, water scarcity in Madhya Pradesh forest
Asian News International. Dewas | June 8, 2019
...Around 15 monkeys died possibly due to heatstroke in Joshi Baba forest range in Bagli, Dewas, Madhya Pradesh. The group met the tragic fate as another group of monkeys allegedly controlled the nearby water source and didn't allow the group to access it.
..."The nearby water source is controlled by another group of monkeys that didn't let this group of monkey's access water, which might have resulted in their death," said (District Forest Official, PN Mishra)...
https://www.ecowatch.com/india-heat-wave-deaths-2638801311.html
15 monkeys die due to heat stroke, water scarcity in Madhya Pradesh forest
Asian News International. Dewas | June 8, 2019
...Around 15 monkeys died possibly due to heatstroke in Joshi Baba forest range in Bagli, Dewas, Madhya Pradesh. The group met the tragic fate as another group of monkeys allegedly controlled the nearby water source and didn't allow the group to access it.
..."The nearby water source is controlled by another group of monkeys that didn't let this group of monkey's access water, which might have resulted in their death," said (District Forest Official, PN Mishra)...
https://www.ecowatch.com/india-heat-wave-deaths-2638801311.html
522wonderY
For Japanese Americans, the debate over what counts as a ‘concentration camp’ is familiar
The debate exploded this week after Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) insisted that migrant detention facilities along the southern border fit the bill — a position she doubled down on Wednesday night. “We are calling these camps what they are because they fit squarely in an academic consensus and definition,” she wrote on Twitter.
For many critics, using the phrase today dilutes the horrors of Nazi concentration and death camps where millions of Jews were killed. Her supporters, though, argued that Ocasio-Cortez didn’t invoke Nazi Germany or genocide, and that instead she was only using bluntly correct language.
…
But for the (Japanese) detainees, who recalled the watch towers and the guards and the threat of being shot and killed if they tried to escape, “concentration camp” was not by any means a stretch.
“The term concentration camp is not inappropriate,” J.J. Enomoto told the Times. “It was far from a normal living situation. I’m sure our fellow Americans will not be hung up on semantics.”
…
On Tuesday, after Ocasio-Cortez’s concentration camp comments took off, (George) Takei said: “I know what concentration camps are. I was inside two of them, in America. And yes, we are operating such camps again.”
(me: The Nazis did not begin collecting - concentrating - Jews, Gypsies, Communists, etc. with the intention of mass murder. That was a policy action that evolved over a matter of time. Think about that.)
The debate exploded this week after Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) insisted that migrant detention facilities along the southern border fit the bill — a position she doubled down on Wednesday night. “We are calling these camps what they are because they fit squarely in an academic consensus and definition,” she wrote on Twitter.
For many critics, using the phrase today dilutes the horrors of Nazi concentration and death camps where millions of Jews were killed. Her supporters, though, argued that Ocasio-Cortez didn’t invoke Nazi Germany or genocide, and that instead she was only using bluntly correct language.
…
But for the (Japanese) detainees, who recalled the watch towers and the guards and the threat of being shot and killed if they tried to escape, “concentration camp” was not by any means a stretch.
“The term concentration camp is not inappropriate,” J.J. Enomoto told the Times. “It was far from a normal living situation. I’m sure our fellow Americans will not be hung up on semantics.”
…
On Tuesday, after Ocasio-Cortez’s concentration camp comments took off, (George) Takei said: “I know what concentration camps are. I was inside two of them, in America. And yes, we are operating such camps again.”
(me: The Nazis did not begin collecting - concentrating - Jews, Gypsies, Communists, etc. with the intention of mass murder. That was a policy action that evolved over a matter of time. Think about that.)
53John5918
Again not about the US specifically, but this letter from a number of African human rights group to the European Union highlights some of the more general crimes and abuses that occur when rich states attempt to limit immigration by proxy security measures in third party states en route.
54John5918
Trump accused of using migrants as ‘political pawns’ after delaying raids (Guardian)
‘This is all a game to him while people live in deep fear’
Refugees Got Talent: UN-backed show aims to change perceptions (Guardian)
Poet, dancer and a reggae singer were among those displaying their skills in Sicily
‘This is all a game to him while people live in deep fear’
Refugees Got Talent: UN-backed show aims to change perceptions (Guardian)
Poet, dancer and a reggae singer were among those displaying their skills in Sicily
55John5918
Over 100 migrant children returned to 'horrific' border station (BBC)
More than 100 migrant children have been returned to a Texas border station just a day after being transferred, US border officials say.
About 250 migrant children were moved from the overcrowded centre after lawyers granted access by a judge said the children were "severely neglected"...
Shocking photo of drowned father and daughter highlights migrants' border peril (Guardian)
The toddler’s arm was still draped around her father’s neck after bodies were found in the Rio Grande as they sought asylum ...
More than 100 migrant children have been returned to a Texas border station just a day after being transferred, US border officials say.
About 250 migrant children were moved from the overcrowded centre after lawyers granted access by a judge said the children were "severely neglected"...
Shocking photo of drowned father and daughter highlights migrants' border peril (Guardian)
The toddler’s arm was still draped around her father’s neck after bodies were found in the Rio Grande as they sought asylum ...
56margd
Supreme Court blocks Trump's census citizenship question, for now
Lawrence Hurley, Andrew Chung | June 27, 2019
...(in)adequate explanation for (Administration's) plan to include a contentious citizenship question on the 2020 census...preventing its addition to the decennial survey for now.
The justices - in a 5-4 decision with Chief Justice John Roberts joining the court’s four liberals in the majority and writing the ruling - upheld part of a federal judge’s ruling barring the question in a victory for a group of states including New York and immigrant rights organizations that had challenged the plan.
Opponents of the question have called it a Republican ploy to scare immigrants into not taking part in the population count.
...the justices sent the issue back to the Commerce Department for it to decide how to proceed. But the clock is ticking, as census forms have to be printed in the coming months.
Further muddying the waters, there is also ongoing litigation in lower courts over recently unearthed evidence that the challengers have said reveals an illegal discriminatory motive by the administration for adding the question, which the high court could yet weigh in on...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-census/u-s-supreme-court-blocks-tru...
Lawrence Hurley, Andrew Chung | June 27, 2019
...(in)adequate explanation for (Administration's) plan to include a contentious citizenship question on the 2020 census...preventing its addition to the decennial survey for now.
The justices - in a 5-4 decision with Chief Justice John Roberts joining the court’s four liberals in the majority and writing the ruling - upheld part of a federal judge’s ruling barring the question in a victory for a group of states including New York and immigrant rights organizations that had challenged the plan.
Opponents of the question have called it a Republican ploy to scare immigrants into not taking part in the population count.
...the justices sent the issue back to the Commerce Department for it to decide how to proceed. But the clock is ticking, as census forms have to be printed in the coming months.
Further muddying the waters, there is also ongoing litigation in lower courts over recently unearthed evidence that the challengers have said reveals an illegal discriminatory motive by the administration for adding the question, which the high court could yet weigh in on...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-census/u-s-supreme-court-blocks-tru...
57margd
Do-over ???
"delay census, no matter how long"???
Trump says he asked lawyers if census could be delayed after Supreme Court decision on citizenship question
Nicholas Wu and Richard Wolf | June 27, 2019
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump said on Thursday afternoon that he would attempt to delay the 2020 census following a Supreme Court decision that would send his administration's request to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census back to a lower court, giving opponents another chance to block it.
"Seems totally ridiculous that our government, and indeed Country, cannot ask a basic question of Citizenship in a very expensive, detailed and important Census," Trump said in a tweet. "I have asked the lawyers if they can delay the Census, no matter how long, until the United States Supreme Court is given additional information from which it can make a final and decisive decision on this very critical matter," Trump tweeted...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/27/supreme-court-citizenshi...
________________________________________________________
...Today, the controlling law for the U.S. Census is Title 13 of the U.S. Code That law requires that the census be conducted on or about April 1, 1980, and every ten years after that. ...
https://usconstitution.net/consttop_cens.html
"delay census, no matter how long"???
Trump says he asked lawyers if census could be delayed after Supreme Court decision on citizenship question
Nicholas Wu and Richard Wolf | June 27, 2019
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump said on Thursday afternoon that he would attempt to delay the 2020 census following a Supreme Court decision that would send his administration's request to add a citizenship question to the 2020 census back to a lower court, giving opponents another chance to block it.
"Seems totally ridiculous that our government, and indeed Country, cannot ask a basic question of Citizenship in a very expensive, detailed and important Census," Trump said in a tweet. "I have asked the lawyers if they can delay the Census, no matter how long, until the United States Supreme Court is given additional information from which it can make a final and decisive decision on this very critical matter," Trump tweeted...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/27/supreme-court-citizenshi...
________________________________________________________
...Today, the controlling law for the U.S. Census is Title 13 of the U.S. Code That law requires that the census be conducted on or about April 1, 1980, and every ten years after that. ...
https://usconstitution.net/consttop_cens.html
59StormRaven
58: I went to law school with Cuccinelli. He was already a vile soulless monster even then.
60TrippB
>58 John5918: ”Victim-blaming...”
It’s a heart-wrenching story, but are you suggesting he’s blameless? It appears he made a deliberate choice to travel right through at least two countries without requesting asylum; he intentionally tried to circumvent the legal means to enter into the U.S.; and he also very recklessly attempted to swim across a river with a small child. A tragic end to a series of bad decisions, true, but those were his decisions. If another father made the choice to consume eight or nine cervezas before driving toward the U.S., and soon crashed along the way, killing himself and his daughter, the blame would rightfully be on him. I don’t see much difference. Either way, a father and daughter are victims of his choices and actions.
The people calling for amnesty for illegal aliens, free health care for illegal aliens (endorsed by every Democrat presidential candidate, apparently), welfare for illegal aliens, voting rights for illegal aliens, and more government handouts and protections, while refusing to secure the border and enforce very reasonable immigration laws, might as well have been on the U.S. side of the Rio Grande yelling encouragement for that father (and millions more) to come on over (“Immigration laws? Ignore those! The water isn’t that deep, and we’ll promise you everything if you vote for us, even if you're a known MS-13 thug who'll kill innocent Americans!”).
Immigration laws similar to most other comparable countries, effectively enforced, would end the seemingly endless migrant caravans making their way to the U.S. The interests responsible for failed immigration policies which reward those who invade the country illegally, and who are now blocking effective improvements to immigration policy, bear much of the blame for tragedies like this.
It’s a heart-wrenching story, but are you suggesting he’s blameless? It appears he made a deliberate choice to travel right through at least two countries without requesting asylum; he intentionally tried to circumvent the legal means to enter into the U.S.; and he also very recklessly attempted to swim across a river with a small child. A tragic end to a series of bad decisions, true, but those were his decisions. If another father made the choice to consume eight or nine cervezas before driving toward the U.S., and soon crashed along the way, killing himself and his daughter, the blame would rightfully be on him. I don’t see much difference. Either way, a father and daughter are victims of his choices and actions.
The people calling for amnesty for illegal aliens, free health care for illegal aliens (endorsed by every Democrat presidential candidate, apparently), welfare for illegal aliens, voting rights for illegal aliens, and more government handouts and protections, while refusing to secure the border and enforce very reasonable immigration laws, might as well have been on the U.S. side of the Rio Grande yelling encouragement for that father (and millions more) to come on over (“Immigration laws? Ignore those! The water isn’t that deep, and we’ll promise you everything if you vote for us, even if you're a known MS-13 thug who'll kill innocent Americans!”).
Immigration laws similar to most other comparable countries, effectively enforced, would end the seemingly endless migrant caravans making their way to the U.S. The interests responsible for failed immigration policies which reward those who invade the country illegally, and who are now blocking effective improvements to immigration policy, bear much of the blame for tragedies like this.
61StormRaven
60: Stop lying. Then maybe you might be worth paying attention to.
The U.S. has among the most stringent immigration laws and controls in the world. Pretending that the immigration policies in place need to be toughened up is lying.
No one is pushing for welfare for illegal aliens. No one is pushing for voting rights for illegal aliens. No one is voting for government handouts for illegal aliens. Pretending that they are is simply lying.
The first step to anything is that people like you need to stop lying. Until you do, your opinions will be treated like the worthless trash that they are.
The U.S. has among the most stringent immigration laws and controls in the world. Pretending that the immigration policies in place need to be toughened up is lying.
No one is pushing for welfare for illegal aliens. No one is pushing for voting rights for illegal aliens. No one is voting for government handouts for illegal aliens. Pretending that they are is simply lying.
The first step to anything is that people like you need to stop lying. Until you do, your opinions will be treated like the worthless trash that they are.
62TrippB
>61 StormRaven:
The U.S. has among the most stringent immigration laws and controls in the world.
The U.S. should have the most stringent immigration laws and controls. I’d say we’ve consistently welcomed more immigrants than any other country, and the U.S. has offered more opportunity than any in history. Still, what is the basis for your claim? Prove it.
Mexico has much more stringent laws. I looked into buying a condo on the beach there. Not a chance. Only citizens were allowed to own property along the coast. I could’ve entered into a complicated trust with a Mexican bank being the real owner, but it involved too many abogados, and that’s never pleasant.
I’ve looked into emigrating to other countries where I’ve lived, or where I’d be interested for retirement. Their requirements were a nightmare. More than one place required a six-figure real estate investment; and one preferred destination required a six-figure real estate investment plus a six-figure processing fee. Maybe the U.S. should consider something similar.
Pretending that the immigration policies in place need to be toughened up is lying.
Toughened up? I’d be happy if the existing laws were just enforced, instead of democrat-controlled cities doing everything they can to ignore our immigration laws and impede federal law enforcement. I do want the anchor baby loophole to be closed, though. There are too many people from all over the world coming here just in time to deliver another cute little burden on American society.
No one is pushing for welfare for illegal aliens. No one is pushing for voting rights for illegal aliens. No one is voting for government handouts for illegal aliens. Pretending that they are is simply lying.
Have you been paying attention? It’s you that’s lying, ignorant, or trying to hide the truth.
(Edited to add that the term "six-figure" refers to more than 100,000 USD)
The U.S. has among the most stringent immigration laws and controls in the world.
The U.S. should have the most stringent immigration laws and controls. I’d say we’ve consistently welcomed more immigrants than any other country, and the U.S. has offered more opportunity than any in history. Still, what is the basis for your claim? Prove it.
Mexico has much more stringent laws. I looked into buying a condo on the beach there. Not a chance. Only citizens were allowed to own property along the coast. I could’ve entered into a complicated trust with a Mexican bank being the real owner, but it involved too many abogados, and that’s never pleasant.
I’ve looked into emigrating to other countries where I’ve lived, or where I’d be interested for retirement. Their requirements were a nightmare. More than one place required a six-figure real estate investment; and one preferred destination required a six-figure real estate investment plus a six-figure processing fee. Maybe the U.S. should consider something similar.
Pretending that the immigration policies in place need to be toughened up is lying.
Toughened up? I’d be happy if the existing laws were just enforced, instead of democrat-controlled cities doing everything they can to ignore our immigration laws and impede federal law enforcement. I do want the anchor baby loophole to be closed, though. There are too many people from all over the world coming here just in time to deliver another cute little burden on American society.
No one is pushing for welfare for illegal aliens. No one is pushing for voting rights for illegal aliens. No one is voting for government handouts for illegal aliens. Pretending that they are is simply lying.
Have you been paying attention? It’s you that’s lying, ignorant, or trying to hide the truth.
(Edited to add that the term "six-figure" refers to more than 100,000 USD)
63StormRaven
Prove it.
I point to 8 U.S.C. Chapter 12.
Buying a condo isn't immigration. That's the first indication that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Maybe the U.S. should consider something similar.
To immigrate to the U.S., none of the requirements you listed are even available as options. The U.S. makes immigration even more difficult than the countries you looked into immigrating to.
Have you been paying attention?
I have. That's why I know you are lying.
You're clearly invested in lying about this, so there is no reason to continue to respond to you. Like all modern conservatives, you live in a fantasy land of delusions. There is no reason to care about your opinions at all.
I point to 8 U.S.C. Chapter 12.
Buying a condo isn't immigration. That's the first indication that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Maybe the U.S. should consider something similar.
To immigrate to the U.S., none of the requirements you listed are even available as options. The U.S. makes immigration even more difficult than the countries you looked into immigrating to.
Have you been paying attention?
I have. That's why I know you are lying.
You're clearly invested in lying about this, so there is no reason to continue to respond to you. Like all modern conservatives, you live in a fantasy land of delusions. There is no reason to care about your opinions at all.
64John5918
Deleted duplicate post - see >65 John5918:
65John5918
>60 TrippB: Immigration laws similar to most other comparable countries, effectively enforced, would end the seemingly endless migrant caravans making their way to the U.S.
No it wouldn't. Desperate people will continue to take desperate measures. One would expect modern democratic nations to act with humanity towards those desperate people.
even if you're a known MS-13 thug who'll kill innocent Americans
Are you suggesting that this man and his daughter were "known MS-13 thugs"? Are you suggesting that a majority or even a large minority of the desperate people seeking sanctuary in the USA are "known MS-13 thugs"? Are you suggesting that this man decided to come to the USA only because he believed it allowed "known MS-13 thugs" to enter? If not, why do you bring this irrelevant soundbite up here?
No it wouldn't. Desperate people will continue to take desperate measures. One would expect modern democratic nations to act with humanity towards those desperate people.
even if you're a known MS-13 thug who'll kill innocent Americans
Are you suggesting that this man and his daughter were "known MS-13 thugs"? Are you suggesting that a majority or even a large minority of the desperate people seeking sanctuary in the USA are "known MS-13 thugs"? Are you suggesting that this man decided to come to the USA only because he believed it allowed "known MS-13 thugs" to enter? If not, why do you bring this irrelevant soundbite up here?
66John5918
Unrest in Sudan reminds immigrants why they’re fighting to stay here (Boston Globe)
Elarabi had qualified for a federal humanitarian program that allows refugees from Sudan and several other countries to live and work legally in the United States. The program, called temporary protected status, was granted to Sudan in 1997 following political unrest there...
In 2017 the Trump administration announced it would dramatically downsize the TPS program and begin deportations, claiming that conditions in Sudan and a handful of other countries had improved enough that their citizens could return...
She applied for asylum, and her case is still pending...
>60 TrippB:, >62 TrippB: - Easy, or stringent? She owns a business in the USA, has been there legally for over 20 years, is not an MS-13 thug, pays taxes and follows all the laws in the USA... and is now being told to return to Sudan, where the military is mowing down peaceful protesters in the streets of Khartoum near her parents' home.
Elarabi had qualified for a federal humanitarian program that allows refugees from Sudan and several other countries to live and work legally in the United States. The program, called temporary protected status, was granted to Sudan in 1997 following political unrest there...
In 2017 the Trump administration announced it would dramatically downsize the TPS program and begin deportations, claiming that conditions in Sudan and a handful of other countries had improved enough that their citizens could return...
She applied for asylum, and her case is still pending...
>60 TrippB:, >62 TrippB: - Easy, or stringent? She owns a business in the USA, has been there legally for over 20 years, is not an MS-13 thug, pays taxes and follows all the laws in the USA... and is now being told to return to Sudan, where the military is mowing down peaceful protesters in the streets of Khartoum near her parents' home.
67John5918
>60 TrippB:
Óscar Martínez drowning: El Salvador takes blame (BBC)
El Salvador's President Nayib Bukele has said his country is to blame for the death of a father and daughter who drowned while trying to reach the US.
Mr Bukele told the BBC his government had to fix the issues that forced people to migrate in the first place.
Mr Bukele, who took office a month ago, promised he would work to make El Salvador a safer and better place...
A recognition that there are issues which make people desperate enough to migrate. In my view it still doesn't absolve rich comfortable nations from behaving humanely towards such desperate and vulnerable people.
Óscar Martínez drowning: El Salvador takes blame (BBC)
El Salvador's President Nayib Bukele has said his country is to blame for the death of a father and daughter who drowned while trying to reach the US.
Mr Bukele told the BBC his government had to fix the issues that forced people to migrate in the first place.
Mr Bukele, who took office a month ago, promised he would work to make El Salvador a safer and better place...
A recognition that there are issues which make people desperate enough to migrate. In my view it still doesn't absolve rich comfortable nations from behaving humanely towards such desperate and vulnerable people.
68StormRaven
I’d be happy if the existing laws were just enforced, instead of democrat-controlled cities doing everything they can to ignore our immigration laws and impede federal law enforcement.
During the Obama administration, the immigration laws were enforced more vigorously than they were at any point prior to then. Despite the fact that immigration was at near historic lows, the Obama administration deported more people than the previous administration had. The immigration laws were being enforced.
And what did guys like you do? You screamed about how terrible the administration was and how they were in favor of "open borders". You castigated the government for not doing enough to stop immigration even though - as I pointed out earlier - immigration had been consistently falling for the previous two decades.
Your claim that you just want the laws enforced is just another lie.
Further, no one in "democrat-controlled cities" is impeding federal law enforcement. Either you fundamentally misunderstand what it means to be a "sanctuary city" or you are simply lying again. The only thing being a "sanctuary city" means is that local law enforcement will not do the federal government's job for it. Federal officers have to do the enforcing of federal immigration law without subcontracting that role to the local police, who are generally neither qualified nor capable of doing that job anyway.
I do want the anchor baby loophole to be closed, though.
First off, there is no such thing as an anchor baby. The very notion of an anchor baby is yet another conservative lie. No one can serve as a sponsor for an immigrant under the family reunification process unless they are at least twenty-one years old. The notion that people are having "anchor babies" in the hope that twenty-one years down the line their child could sponsor them as an immigrant is ludicrous on its face.
Second, are you suggesting that the government ignore the U.S. Constitution? Because what makes people born in the United States citizens by virtue of being born in the United States is the text of the U.S. Constitution. I suppose you could be arguing that the Constitution be amended to change the provision, but what is your proposal to replace that language? Who do you propose to prevent from becoming U.S. citizens who are born within the United States? Who do you want the government to be able to deny citizenship to? Further, what country will those people then be citizens of?
During the Obama administration, the immigration laws were enforced more vigorously than they were at any point prior to then. Despite the fact that immigration was at near historic lows, the Obama administration deported more people than the previous administration had. The immigration laws were being enforced.
And what did guys like you do? You screamed about how terrible the administration was and how they were in favor of "open borders". You castigated the government for not doing enough to stop immigration even though - as I pointed out earlier - immigration had been consistently falling for the previous two decades.
Your claim that you just want the laws enforced is just another lie.
Further, no one in "democrat-controlled cities" is impeding federal law enforcement. Either you fundamentally misunderstand what it means to be a "sanctuary city" or you are simply lying again. The only thing being a "sanctuary city" means is that local law enforcement will not do the federal government's job for it. Federal officers have to do the enforcing of federal immigration law without subcontracting that role to the local police, who are generally neither qualified nor capable of doing that job anyway.
I do want the anchor baby loophole to be closed, though.
First off, there is no such thing as an anchor baby. The very notion of an anchor baby is yet another conservative lie. No one can serve as a sponsor for an immigrant under the family reunification process unless they are at least twenty-one years old. The notion that people are having "anchor babies" in the hope that twenty-one years down the line their child could sponsor them as an immigrant is ludicrous on its face.
Second, are you suggesting that the government ignore the U.S. Constitution? Because what makes people born in the United States citizens by virtue of being born in the United States is the text of the U.S. Constitution. I suppose you could be arguing that the Constitution be amended to change the provision, but what is your proposal to replace that language? Who do you propose to prevent from becoming U.S. citizens who are born within the United States? Who do you want the government to be able to deny citizenship to? Further, what country will those people then be citizens of?
69TrippB
>63 StormRaven:
"Prove it."
I point to 8 U.S.C. Chapter 12..
If find it surprising that I have to say this to you, but pointing to the US code, with no reference to other nations’ requirements, does nothing to establish proof of your assertion. Just for the sake of debate, I’ll let that go and play along as though U.S. immigration laws are among the most stringent in the world. So what? Unenforced laws are useless. Lots of laws, with numerous loopholes, are weak. Democrats are telling the world to ignore our laws, sneak in, and reap all the benefits of a generous nation. No society can withstand unlimited immigration, especially when that nation is incurring the costs. We need better laws and better enforcement.
More than a million immigrants arrive in the U.S. each year, and most follow the legal process. Why should we allow unlimited numbers of illegal aliens to swim across the Rio Grande, and bypass all the hopeful immigrants who respect our laws and who are going through the process prescribed by 8 U.S.C. Chapter 12? I don’t like cheaters, and certainly don’t want them living anywhere near me. My next door neighbor is from Iran. Behind me is a couple from Turkey. They’re all great neighbors, and they came in legally—I don’t think those two factors are coincidental.
Buying a condo isn't immigration. That's the first indication that you have no idea what you are talking about.
A reasonable person would have inferred that I not only wanted to buy a condo in Mexico, but that I also wanted to live in it. That involves compliance with immigration laws.
To immigrate to the U.S., none of the requirements you listed are even available as options. The U.S. makes immigration even more difficult that the countries you looked into immigrating to.
Fine. It should be difficult. Merit-based. Out of reach of criminals. Perhaps with a $500,000 fee if an immigrant wants to jump the line.
Have you been paying attention? I have. That's why I know you are lying.
Once again, you take the lazy way out. No substance. Democrats have called for illegal alien welfare, free medical care, voting rights, and more.
You're clearly invested in lying about this, so there is no reason to continue to respond to you….. There is no reason to care about your opinions at all.
I think I know exactly how you feel. You’re very welcome to block me. It won’t offend me any more than your attempts at ridicule.
"Prove it."
I point to 8 U.S.C. Chapter 12..
If find it surprising that I have to say this to you, but pointing to the US code, with no reference to other nations’ requirements, does nothing to establish proof of your assertion. Just for the sake of debate, I’ll let that go and play along as though U.S. immigration laws are among the most stringent in the world. So what? Unenforced laws are useless. Lots of laws, with numerous loopholes, are weak. Democrats are telling the world to ignore our laws, sneak in, and reap all the benefits of a generous nation. No society can withstand unlimited immigration, especially when that nation is incurring the costs. We need better laws and better enforcement.
More than a million immigrants arrive in the U.S. each year, and most follow the legal process. Why should we allow unlimited numbers of illegal aliens to swim across the Rio Grande, and bypass all the hopeful immigrants who respect our laws and who are going through the process prescribed by 8 U.S.C. Chapter 12? I don’t like cheaters, and certainly don’t want them living anywhere near me. My next door neighbor is from Iran. Behind me is a couple from Turkey. They’re all great neighbors, and they came in legally—I don’t think those two factors are coincidental.
Buying a condo isn't immigration. That's the first indication that you have no idea what you are talking about.
A reasonable person would have inferred that I not only wanted to buy a condo in Mexico, but that I also wanted to live in it. That involves compliance with immigration laws.
To immigrate to the U.S., none of the requirements you listed are even available as options. The U.S. makes immigration even more difficult that the countries you looked into immigrating to.
Fine. It should be difficult. Merit-based. Out of reach of criminals. Perhaps with a $500,000 fee if an immigrant wants to jump the line.
Have you been paying attention? I have. That's why I know you are lying.
Once again, you take the lazy way out. No substance. Democrats have called for illegal alien welfare, free medical care, voting rights, and more.
You're clearly invested in lying about this, so there is no reason to continue to respond to you….. There is no reason to care about your opinions at all.
I think I know exactly how you feel. You’re very welcome to block me. It won’t offend me any more than your attempts at ridicule.
70TrippB
This debate is often portrayed as conservative versus liberal. Growing up in Houston, my views, in part, were shaped by a Democrat member of Congress. I have great respect and admiration for the memory of Congresswoman Barbara Jordan. It's amazing to me how far democrats have moved to the extreme left since she gave the keynote speech at the democrat national convention when I was still a pre-teen.
Here is just one example of her common sense views on immigration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qjdZUx7fUw
I hope all 17 or so people who read this take a moment to listen to her words (you, too, jtf, if your connection will allow it). If she hadn't died too soon, it's very possible she would’ve been a presidential candidate, and I would've proudly voted for her. I think her first lady would’ve been great, too.
Here is just one example of her common sense views on immigration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qjdZUx7fUw
I hope all 17 or so people who read this take a moment to listen to her words (you, too, jtf, if your connection will allow it). If she hadn't died too soon, it's very possible she would’ve been a presidential candidate, and I would've proudly voted for her. I think her first lady would’ve been great, too.
71TrippB
>64 John5918:
Are you suggesting that this man and his daughter were "known MS-13 thugs"? Are you suggesting that a majority or even a large minority of the desperate people seeking sanctuary in the USA are "known MS-13 thugs"?
Thank you for noticing this minor reference. I am not suggesting this man was an MS-13 thug. I’m not saying he wasn’t, either. That is exactly the problem. We have no idea. When illegal aliens go to extreme effort to circumvent legal entry and sneak into the U.S., we don't know what we’re getting. He might be MS-13. He might have been deported multiple times. It’s possible he swam across multiple times, and been deported multiple times. There’s no way to tell who swims across, because they are not vetted. That must stop.
Are you suggesting that this man and his daughter were "known MS-13 thugs"? Are you suggesting that a majority or even a large minority of the desperate people seeking sanctuary in the USA are "known MS-13 thugs"?
Thank you for noticing this minor reference. I am not suggesting this man was an MS-13 thug. I’m not saying he wasn’t, either. That is exactly the problem. We have no idea. When illegal aliens go to extreme effort to circumvent legal entry and sneak into the U.S., we don't know what we’re getting. He might be MS-13. He might have been deported multiple times. It’s possible he swam across multiple times, and been deported multiple times. There’s no way to tell who swims across, because they are not vetted. That must stop.
72John5918
I fled Nazi Germany. I hope the US doesn't turn its back on refugees (Guardian)
Trump has made hostility to migrants and asylum seekers the running theme of his presidency. But asylum saved my family from certain death
Trump has made hostility to migrants and asylum seekers the running theme of his presidency. But asylum saved my family from certain death
73John5918
>71 TrippB: I am not suggesting this man was an MS-13 thug. I’m not saying he wasn’t, either. That is exactly the problem.
Problem solved. He's dead. If you make getting in to the country so difficult that people die on the border, then you don't need to vet them. Money saved, and no danger to any US citizens, only to vlunerable and desperate migrants and their small children. Perhaps you could just have open season, shooting them all? After all, you just don't know whether they are MS-13 thugs or not, so better to be on the safe side.
When illegal aliens go to extreme effort to circumvent legal entry and sneak into the U.S.
You seem to be ignoring the point that the reason vulnerable and desperate people go to such extreme efforts to "sneak" into the USA is because the USA makes it so difficult for them to apply to get "legal" admittance.
Problem solved. He's dead. If you make getting in to the country so difficult that people die on the border, then you don't need to vet them. Money saved, and no danger to any US citizens, only to vlunerable and desperate migrants and their small children. Perhaps you could just have open season, shooting them all? After all, you just don't know whether they are MS-13 thugs or not, so better to be on the safe side.
When illegal aliens go to extreme effort to circumvent legal entry and sneak into the U.S.
You seem to be ignoring the point that the reason vulnerable and desperate people go to such extreme efforts to "sneak" into the USA is because the USA makes it so difficult for them to apply to get "legal" admittance.
74StormRaven
I am not suggesting this man was an MS-13 thug. I’m not saying he wasn’t, either. That is exactly the problem. We have no idea.
That's not how things work. Try this: I am not suggesting you are a pedophile. I'm not saying you are not either. That is exactly the problem. We have no idea.
Does that bother you? If it does, you might want to consider why you think applying that same standard to a potential immigrant is okay.
When illegal aliens go to extreme effort to circumvent legal entry and sneak into the U.S., we don't know what we’re getting. He might be MS-13. He might have been deported multiple times. It’s possible he swam across multiple times, and been deported multiple times. There’s no way to tell who swims across, because they are not vetted.
Well then, maybe making it easier to access ports of entry would solve that problem. Your remedy of toughening this sort of thing up would seem to be counterproductive.
That's not how things work. Try this: I am not suggesting you are a pedophile. I'm not saying you are not either. That is exactly the problem. We have no idea.
Does that bother you? If it does, you might want to consider why you think applying that same standard to a potential immigrant is okay.
When illegal aliens go to extreme effort to circumvent legal entry and sneak into the U.S., we don't know what we’re getting. He might be MS-13. He might have been deported multiple times. It’s possible he swam across multiple times, and been deported multiple times. There’s no way to tell who swims across, because they are not vetted.
Well then, maybe making it easier to access ports of entry would solve that problem. Your remedy of toughening this sort of thing up would seem to be counterproductive.
75StormRaven
This debate is often portrayed as conservative versus liberal. Growing up in Houston, my views, in part, were shaped by a Democrat member of Congress.
Just because someone is a Democrat doesn't make them a liberal.
I would also point out that the Commission Jordan headed up had radically different prescriptions for how to deal with immigration than the administration is pursuing - including making ports of entry more accessible.
Just because someone is a Democrat doesn't make them a liberal.
I would also point out that the Commission Jordan headed up had radically different prescriptions for how to deal with immigration than the administration is pursuing - including making ports of entry more accessible.
76StormRaven
Democrats are telling the world to ignore our laws, sneak in, and reap all the benefits of a generous nation.
No they are not. Stop lying.
This is why no one takes you seriously. Until you stop constantly lying, you have no opinion worth caring about.
A reasonable person would have inferred that I not only wanted to buy a condo in Mexico, but that I also wanted to live in it. That involves compliance with immigration laws.
And yet you cited no immigration laws of any kind in your discussion of your efforts. A reasonable person would have inferred that you have no idea what the immigration rules actually were given that you spoke about nothing but your attempts to purchase real property.
You still present yourself as a clueless numpty.
Fine. It should be difficult. Merit-based. Out of reach of criminals. Perhaps with a $500,000 fee if an immigrant wants to jump the line.
This tells me, once again, that you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no line. There is no way to "get in line" and wait your turn to immigrate to the United States. The methods of immigrating to the United States are far more restrictive than that, and none of them involve a "line".
In fact, immigrating to the U.S. is already merit based, and incredibly difficult to do. The fact that you don't know this tells me, once again, that you don't even know the basics of the issue being discussed. Your proposal to allow cash payments to "jump the line" would make immigrating to the United States significantly easier than it is now, and that really only serves to prove my point about the relative toughness of U.S. immigration law. Every time you have tried to talk about the difficulties of immigrating to other countries or made a proposal to "toughen up" immigration to the United States, you have given options that are easier than current U.S. immigration laws.
Also, if you think that criminals are all people who don't have money, then you have no idea what you are talking about.
Once again, you take the lazy way out. No substance. Democrats have called for illegal alien welfare, free medical care, voting rights, and more.
No, they have not. Stop lying.
Let's put it this way, you keep claiming this, and you have yet to provide any substance to back it up. I assert that this is because you cannot, because you are lying.
No they are not. Stop lying.
This is why no one takes you seriously. Until you stop constantly lying, you have no opinion worth caring about.
A reasonable person would have inferred that I not only wanted to buy a condo in Mexico, but that I also wanted to live in it. That involves compliance with immigration laws.
And yet you cited no immigration laws of any kind in your discussion of your efforts. A reasonable person would have inferred that you have no idea what the immigration rules actually were given that you spoke about nothing but your attempts to purchase real property.
You still present yourself as a clueless numpty.
Fine. It should be difficult. Merit-based. Out of reach of criminals. Perhaps with a $500,000 fee if an immigrant wants to jump the line.
This tells me, once again, that you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no line. There is no way to "get in line" and wait your turn to immigrate to the United States. The methods of immigrating to the United States are far more restrictive than that, and none of them involve a "line".
In fact, immigrating to the U.S. is already merit based, and incredibly difficult to do. The fact that you don't know this tells me, once again, that you don't even know the basics of the issue being discussed. Your proposal to allow cash payments to "jump the line" would make immigrating to the United States significantly easier than it is now, and that really only serves to prove my point about the relative toughness of U.S. immigration law. Every time you have tried to talk about the difficulties of immigrating to other countries or made a proposal to "toughen up" immigration to the United States, you have given options that are easier than current U.S. immigration laws.
Also, if you think that criminals are all people who don't have money, then you have no idea what you are talking about.
Once again, you take the lazy way out. No substance. Democrats have called for illegal alien welfare, free medical care, voting rights, and more.
No, they have not. Stop lying.
Let's put it this way, you keep claiming this, and you have yet to provide any substance to back it up. I assert that this is because you cannot, because you are lying.
77John5918
US Border Patrol investigate ‘disturbing’ secret Facebook group (BBC)
US officials are investigating a secret Facebook group where border patrol members allegedly posted racist and sexist jokes about migrants.
The private group had about 9,500 members, including former and current border patrol agents, ProPublica reported.
Some posts mocked migrant deaths, while others targeted Latino members of Congress, ProPublica said.
The Border Patrol chief has called the posts "completely inappropriate".
"Any employees found to have violated our standards of conduct will be held accountable"...
US officials are investigating a secret Facebook group where border patrol members allegedly posted racist and sexist jokes about migrants.
The private group had about 9,500 members, including former and current border patrol agents, ProPublica reported.
Some posts mocked migrant deaths, while others targeted Latino members of Congress, ProPublica said.
The Border Patrol chief has called the posts "completely inappropriate".
"Any employees found to have violated our standards of conduct will be held accountable"...
78margd
57, contd.
Trump Administration Drops Effort to Add Citizenship Question to 2020 Census
Michael Wines | July 2, 2019
The Trump administration said Tuesday that it would be printing forms for the 2020 census without a question asking about citizenship, abandoning its quest to add the query after being blocked last week by the Supreme Court...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/us/trump-census-citizenship-question.html
_______________________________________________________________
Connection?
'Something came up': Vice President Mike Pence abruptly cancels trip for unclear reason
Maureen Groppe and John Fritze | July 2, 2019
..."Something came up that required the VP to remain in Washington, DC. It’s no cause for alarm," spokeswoman Alyssa Farah tweeted around noon. "He looks forward to rescheduling the trip to New Hampshire very soon."
Pence's top aide, Marc Short, told reporters that the reason for the cancellation would become known “in a few weeks."
Pence had been scheduled to meet with former patients at a drug addiction treatment center and comment on the opioid crisis...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/02/vice-president-mike-penc...
Trump Administration Drops Effort to Add Citizenship Question to 2020 Census
Michael Wines | July 2, 2019
The Trump administration said Tuesday that it would be printing forms for the 2020 census without a question asking about citizenship, abandoning its quest to add the query after being blocked last week by the Supreme Court...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/us/trump-census-citizenship-question.html
_______________________________________________________________
Connection?
'Something came up': Vice President Mike Pence abruptly cancels trip for unclear reason
Maureen Groppe and John Fritze | July 2, 2019
..."Something came up that required the VP to remain in Washington, DC. It’s no cause for alarm," spokeswoman Alyssa Farah tweeted around noon. "He looks forward to rescheduling the trip to New Hampshire very soon."
Pence's top aide, Marc Short, told reporters that the reason for the cancellation would become known “in a few weeks."
Pence had been scheduled to meet with former patients at a drug addiction treatment center and comment on the opioid crisis...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/02/vice-president-mike-penc...
79TrippB
>76 StormRaven:
Does that bother you?”
From a border security perspective, that doesn’t bother me a bit. In fact, in addition to checking everyone who crosses the border for pedophile offenses, I also want them to look for any indications that an immigrant is a criminal gang member, violent offender, drug dealer, drunk driver, suspected terrorist, or if they’re known to have any other unsavory aspects. I’ve been through more border checkpoints than I can remember. In the more capable countries, the border agent’s eyes are locked on a computer as they run my information through all the databases they have. Sometimes I’ve been questioned, and a couple of times I was actually interviewed. Several countries required very extensive visa applications so they could check me out in advance. It’s what responsible nations do.
The U.S. isn’t doing a good job of protecting society from human trash that sneaks across the border (and, before you jump on it, I don’t mean all who sneak across the border like thieves in the night are human trash…but some definitely are). Worse, once they’re in, they can make their way to Democrat-controlled sanctuary cities where they’ll actually be hidden from ICE and other federal authorities (and, before you jump on “hidden,” I mean that authorities in sanctuary cities refuse to share information about known criminal activity with federal authorities—which I consider to be negligence—impeding justice, even).
”Well then, maybe making it easier to access ports of entry would solve the problem”
Is that a joke? The subjects of this conversation traveled through two entire countries to reach the U.S., and they can’t walk a short distance to access a port of entry? Are you suggesting that they’re merely taking a shortcut when they sneak across the river?
”Stop lying.”
Stop relying on unsubstantiated accusations of lying. I’d say it’s common knowledge that Democrats are encouraging illegal immigration and proposing (or already giving) all kinds of welfare to those who make it across the border. Democrats have proposed abolishing ICE; democrats are behind sanctuary cities which give refuge to criminals; democrats have demanded the release of illegal aliens intercepted at the border; the list goes on and on.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-vote-against-motion-condemning-illega...
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/all_dem_candidates_raise_hand...
”And yet you cited no immigration laws of any kind in your discussion of your efforts”
{“Clueless numpty” I’ve been called just about every derogatory and obscene name that exists, multiple times, but that was a new one. Had to look up numpty, and learned something new. At least something came from this.}
My interest in buying Mexican real estate was years ago, and I don’t recall all of my sources, so I just looked online for you. I avoided the politically-motivated sources, and found useful information from a company that provides services to people moving to Mexico. You want to buy a home on a Mexican beach? The only way you can own it is if you are a Mexican citizen. Only citizens can own property in the Restricted Zone, which is all land within 50 km (30 miles) of any coastline or 100 km (60 miles) from any international border. No job, or not independently wealthy? You aren’t welcome in Mexico. Another interesting tidbit is that you cannot apply for residency from within Mexico, or at the border. It must be done at a consulate before you make your way to their border crossing. Good idea.
https://conciergediego.com/2017/08/23/moving-to-mexico-mexicos-new-immigration-l...
”There is no line.”
I think you know that is a commonly used figure of speech to encompass the many aspects of the immigration process, and it's likely only you that assumed I was describing a million hopeful immigrants queued up like they’re waiting for the teacup ride at Disneyland.
“In fact, immigrating to the U.S. is already merit based…”
Partially—the good part, anyway. Every year, 50,000 people simply win the visa lottery. Once they become citizens, they’re allowed to sponsor immigration of family, including brothers, sisters, and adult children; and the cycle continues. I’d like chain migration to be ended immediately.
”….criminals….(blah, blah, blah)””
What makes you think that allowing wealthy immigrants to streamline their entry process with a substantial payment to the treasury will result in more criminals? If we do proper background checks, we’ll intercept known criminals (which we are not doing for those who sneak in).
“Stop lying” (yes…he tried that yet again…it’s getting rather tedious)
I can’t believe you’re actually trying to deny direct statements and actions from Democrats that have been reported from multiple sources. I know HR 1 did not grant any voting rights, but it encourages illegal aliens to vote wherever they can. Democrats overwhelmingly rejected including language which would condemn voting by illegals. In New York, Democrats proposed a bill which would allow undocumented immigrants to vote, drive, receive professional licenses, run for civil office, and receive Medicaid as well as in-state tuition in New York by making them New York state citizens. Democrats in other locations have publicly stated support for similar initiatives. A Democrat member of Congress actually provided tips to illegals on how to evade law enforcement. Give up the weak “You’re lying” defense, as you must recognize that i’m not lying.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/22/ocasio-cortez-illegal-immigrants-law-enforcem...
https://ntknetwork.com/ocasio-cortez-calls-illegal-immigrants-her-constituents/
https://nyassembly.gov/Press/files/20190331a.php
In the face of overwhelming evidence readily available in the media, it’s apparent your strategy is to simply cry “You’re lying” in an attempt to discredit my opinion. It takes an incredible amount of pompous arrogance to think that your mere criticism is enough to render a counter opinion invalid. I’ve seen you do this throughout Pro & Con, to multiple opposing opinions, and it’s not impressive.
Does that bother you?”
From a border security perspective, that doesn’t bother me a bit. In fact, in addition to checking everyone who crosses the border for pedophile offenses, I also want them to look for any indications that an immigrant is a criminal gang member, violent offender, drug dealer, drunk driver, suspected terrorist, or if they’re known to have any other unsavory aspects. I’ve been through more border checkpoints than I can remember. In the more capable countries, the border agent’s eyes are locked on a computer as they run my information through all the databases they have. Sometimes I’ve been questioned, and a couple of times I was actually interviewed. Several countries required very extensive visa applications so they could check me out in advance. It’s what responsible nations do.
The U.S. isn’t doing a good job of protecting society from human trash that sneaks across the border (and, before you jump on it, I don’t mean all who sneak across the border like thieves in the night are human trash…but some definitely are). Worse, once they’re in, they can make their way to Democrat-controlled sanctuary cities where they’ll actually be hidden from ICE and other federal authorities (and, before you jump on “hidden,” I mean that authorities in sanctuary cities refuse to share information about known criminal activity with federal authorities—which I consider to be negligence—impeding justice, even).
”Well then, maybe making it easier to access ports of entry would solve the problem”
Is that a joke? The subjects of this conversation traveled through two entire countries to reach the U.S., and they can’t walk a short distance to access a port of entry? Are you suggesting that they’re merely taking a shortcut when they sneak across the river?
”Stop lying.”
Stop relying on unsubstantiated accusations of lying. I’d say it’s common knowledge that Democrats are encouraging illegal immigration and proposing (or already giving) all kinds of welfare to those who make it across the border. Democrats have proposed abolishing ICE; democrats are behind sanctuary cities which give refuge to criminals; democrats have demanded the release of illegal aliens intercepted at the border; the list goes on and on.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrats-vote-against-motion-condemning-illega...
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/all_dem_candidates_raise_hand...
”And yet you cited no immigration laws of any kind in your discussion of your efforts”
{“Clueless numpty” I’ve been called just about every derogatory and obscene name that exists, multiple times, but that was a new one. Had to look up numpty, and learned something new. At least something came from this.}
My interest in buying Mexican real estate was years ago, and I don’t recall all of my sources, so I just looked online for you. I avoided the politically-motivated sources, and found useful information from a company that provides services to people moving to Mexico. You want to buy a home on a Mexican beach? The only way you can own it is if you are a Mexican citizen. Only citizens can own property in the Restricted Zone, which is all land within 50 km (30 miles) of any coastline or 100 km (60 miles) from any international border. No job, or not independently wealthy? You aren’t welcome in Mexico. Another interesting tidbit is that you cannot apply for residency from within Mexico, or at the border. It must be done at a consulate before you make your way to their border crossing. Good idea.
https://conciergediego.com/2017/08/23/moving-to-mexico-mexicos-new-immigration-l...
”There is no line.”
I think you know that is a commonly used figure of speech to encompass the many aspects of the immigration process, and it's likely only you that assumed I was describing a million hopeful immigrants queued up like they’re waiting for the teacup ride at Disneyland.
“In fact, immigrating to the U.S. is already merit based…”
Partially—the good part, anyway. Every year, 50,000 people simply win the visa lottery. Once they become citizens, they’re allowed to sponsor immigration of family, including brothers, sisters, and adult children; and the cycle continues. I’d like chain migration to be ended immediately.
”….criminals….(blah, blah, blah)””
What makes you think that allowing wealthy immigrants to streamline their entry process with a substantial payment to the treasury will result in more criminals? If we do proper background checks, we’ll intercept known criminals (which we are not doing for those who sneak in).
“Stop lying” (yes…he tried that yet again…it’s getting rather tedious)
I can’t believe you’re actually trying to deny direct statements and actions from Democrats that have been reported from multiple sources. I know HR 1 did not grant any voting rights, but it encourages illegal aliens to vote wherever they can. Democrats overwhelmingly rejected including language which would condemn voting by illegals. In New York, Democrats proposed a bill which would allow undocumented immigrants to vote, drive, receive professional licenses, run for civil office, and receive Medicaid as well as in-state tuition in New York by making them New York state citizens. Democrats in other locations have publicly stated support for similar initiatives. A Democrat member of Congress actually provided tips to illegals on how to evade law enforcement. Give up the weak “You’re lying” defense, as you must recognize that i’m not lying.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/22/ocasio-cortez-illegal-immigrants-law-enforcem...
https://ntknetwork.com/ocasio-cortez-calls-illegal-immigrants-her-constituents/
https://nyassembly.gov/Press/files/20190331a.php
In the face of overwhelming evidence readily available in the media, it’s apparent your strategy is to simply cry “You’re lying” in an attempt to discredit my opinion. It takes an incredible amount of pompous arrogance to think that your mere criticism is enough to render a counter opinion invalid. I’ve seen you do this throughout Pro & Con, to multiple opposing opinions, and it’s not impressive.
80John5918
>79 TrippB: they can’t walk a short distance to access a port of entry?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that US immigration had prevented people from being able to walk directly to a border crossing point and claim asylum? I thought they had set up new procedures which made it virtually impossible to do so, and involved waiting for months in a third country before the processing even began?
I don’t mean all who sneak across the border like thieves in the night are human trash…but some definitely are
That's where you and I have a basic disagreement. There is no such thing as "human trash". There are human beings. There are some who behave well, and some who behave badly, and many who behave either well or badly depending on circumstances, on how they have been oppressed and traumatised, on how desperate and vulnerable they are, on how hopeless they are, on what misguided ideologies they have been indoctrinated into.
I suppose that's what makes me both sad and worried when I engage in conversations with you. I believe that you are not a bad person, that you are not part of the rightwing extremist fringe, that you respond to rational argument and, unlike StormRaven, I do not believe you are deliberately lying (although I do believe you are wittingly or unwittingly buying into a narrative which is based on lies). But if "good" people like yourself have such an attitude towards other human beings in need, an attititude which to me is frankly evil, where is the USA, and the world, heading? You've moved a long way from that famous quote, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that US immigration had prevented people from being able to walk directly to a border crossing point and claim asylum? I thought they had set up new procedures which made it virtually impossible to do so, and involved waiting for months in a third country before the processing even began?
I don’t mean all who sneak across the border like thieves in the night are human trash…but some definitely are
That's where you and I have a basic disagreement. There is no such thing as "human trash". There are human beings. There are some who behave well, and some who behave badly, and many who behave either well or badly depending on circumstances, on how they have been oppressed and traumatised, on how desperate and vulnerable they are, on how hopeless they are, on what misguided ideologies they have been indoctrinated into.
I suppose that's what makes me both sad and worried when I engage in conversations with you. I believe that you are not a bad person, that you are not part of the rightwing extremist fringe, that you respond to rational argument and, unlike StormRaven, I do not believe you are deliberately lying (although I do believe you are wittingly or unwittingly buying into a narrative which is based on lies). But if "good" people like yourself have such an attitude towards other human beings in need, an attititude which to me is frankly evil, where is the USA, and the world, heading? You've moved a long way from that famous quote, "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".
812wonderY
It occurs to me that the crowded conditions, long detentions, degraded care benchmarks and attitudes of Border Patrol employees in the detention facilities exposed by Homeland Security Inspector General's office are a prime cauldron for creating malcontents who might express their frustrations in future bad acts.
If those men in cages weren't political before detention, they surely are now.
If those men in cages weren't political before detention, they surely are now.
82John5918
>81 2wonderY: men in cages
That phrase, "men in cages", reminds me of the British government's discredited policy of internment during the Northern Ireland Troubles, where thousands of young men were locked up without having committed any crime. A fertile recruiting ground for the militants.
That phrase, "men in cages", reminds me of the British government's discredited policy of internment during the Northern Ireland Troubles, where thousands of young men were locked up without having committed any crime. A fertile recruiting ground for the militants.
83davidgn
>82 John5918: Indeed. To your point: I feel a song comin' on...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3vnPYaSm0A
(In fact, that's about the tamest example I can think of).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3vnPYaSm0A
(In fact, that's about the tamest example I can think of).
84John5918
>83 davidgn:
Thanks for that reminder. Much of my younger life was spent with second generation Irish Catholics in England and then with Irish priests all over the world, and we used to sing a lot of songs like that after a wee drink or three. It seems oppressors never learn that imprisoning innocent people for political or other reasons only creates a breeding ground for political (and often armed) resistance. Perhaps one of the classic lessons was from Robben Island in South Africa, where the ANC operated an informal "university" in the very stone quarries where they were doing forced hard labour. In Northern Ireland both the Republicans/Catholics and Loyalists/Protestants had well-organised structures within the prisons.
Thanks for that reminder. Much of my younger life was spent with second generation Irish Catholics in England and then with Irish priests all over the world, and we used to sing a lot of songs like that after a wee drink or three. It seems oppressors never learn that imprisoning innocent people for political or other reasons only creates a breeding ground for political (and often armed) resistance. Perhaps one of the classic lessons was from Robben Island in South Africa, where the ANC operated an informal "university" in the very stone quarries where they were doing forced hard labour. In Northern Ireland both the Republicans/Catholics and Loyalists/Protestants had well-organised structures within the prisons.
85alco261
>80 John5918: here you are JTF - the revised statement at the base of the Statue of Limitations
Don’t give me your tired, your poor because I believe they want everything for free, The human garbage that washes ashore . Don’t Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I”ve doused the lamp and slammed the door.
Don’t give me your tired, your poor because I believe they want everything for free, The human garbage that washes ashore . Don’t Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I”ve doused the lamp and slammed the door.
86davidgn
>84 John5918: Now you've got me investigating South African counterparts. ;-)
There's this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG3oKb2JQow
But this might be more apt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3upHN5sqd8
There's this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG3oKb2JQow
But this might be more apt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3upHN5sqd8
87davidgn
And while Chicano protest music is an unexplored territory for me, looks like this is a good place to start.
https://www.npr.org/sections/altlatino/2018/07/11/626537505/protesting-trumps-im...
For anyone who might underestimate the importance of songs: the U.S. government does not.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/jul/16/la-bestia-song-commissio...
https://www.npr.org/sections/altlatino/2018/07/11/626537505/protesting-trumps-im...
For anyone who might underestimate the importance of songs: the U.S. government does not.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/jul/16/la-bestia-song-commissio...
88John5918
>86 davidgn:
There were some good protest songs in and about South Africa. Even the protest marching was musical, with the toyi toyi dance - Trevor Noah does a good sketch on how white people really don't know how to march (but I can't find it at the moment). Here's a few:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztfe5iKlSTc&list=RDZtfe5iKlSTc&start_rad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DaZPqT7KKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWxB0yJ2MRM
And of course N'kosi Sikeleli Africa has been a powerful anti-colonial and anti-apartheid anthem.
Perhaps also worth looking at Spitting Images' contribution - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxEweP2TiMk
Music certainly plays a role in any struggle, whether it's militaristic marching bands or stirring protest and liberation songs.
There were some good protest songs in and about South Africa. Even the protest marching was musical, with the toyi toyi dance - Trevor Noah does a good sketch on how white people really don't know how to march (but I can't find it at the moment). Here's a few:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztfe5iKlSTc&list=RDZtfe5iKlSTc&start_rad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DaZPqT7KKI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWxB0yJ2MRM
And of course N'kosi Sikeleli Africa has been a powerful anti-colonial and anti-apartheid anthem.
Perhaps also worth looking at Spitting Images' contribution - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxEweP2TiMk
Music certainly plays a role in any struggle, whether it's militaristic marching bands or stirring protest and liberation songs.
89TrippB
>80 John5918:
Regarding the asylum process, in a rare position by CNN, Fareed Zakaria has admitted that “…the United States faces a crisis with its asylum system.”
https://youtu.be/8liPV-0WzpQ
A few excerpts:
“Since 2014, the flow of asylum seekers into the United States has skyrocketed. Last year, immigration courts received 162,000 asylum claims. A 240 percent increase from 2014. The result is a staggering backlog with more than 300,000 asylum cases pending and the average immigration case has been pending for more than 700 days. It’s also clear that the rules surrounding asylum are vague, lax and being gamed.
The initial step for many asylum seekers is to convince officers that they have a credible fear of persecution in their home countries. And about 75 percent meet that criteria. Some applicants for asylum have suspiciously similar stories using identical phrases. Many simply use the system to enter the U.S. and then melt into the shadows or gain a work permit while their application is pending.
“Asylum is meant to be granted to a very small number of people in extreme circumstances. Not as a substitute for the process of immigration itself. “
"Guilt-ridden over the rejection of many Jewish refugees during World War II the U.N. created a right of asylum to protect those who are fleeing regimes where they would be killed our imprisoned because of their identity or beliefs. This standard has gotten broader and broader over the years.”
“Applications from Hondurans, Guatemalans and Salvadorans have surged even though the murder rate in their countries has been cut in half. More broadly, hundreds of millions of people around the world who live in poor, unstable regions where threats of violence abound could easily apply for asylum. Do they all have the legal right to enter the U.S. through a backdoor, bypassing the normal immigration process?”
"Democrats have spent most of their efforts on this topic, assailing the Trump administration for its heartlessness. Fine. But that does not address the roots of this genuine crisis.”
Regarding the asylum process, in a rare position by CNN, Fareed Zakaria has admitted that “…the United States faces a crisis with its asylum system.”
https://youtu.be/8liPV-0WzpQ
A few excerpts:
“Since 2014, the flow of asylum seekers into the United States has skyrocketed. Last year, immigration courts received 162,000 asylum claims. A 240 percent increase from 2014. The result is a staggering backlog with more than 300,000 asylum cases pending and the average immigration case has been pending for more than 700 days. It’s also clear that the rules surrounding asylum are vague, lax and being gamed.
The initial step for many asylum seekers is to convince officers that they have a credible fear of persecution in their home countries. And about 75 percent meet that criteria. Some applicants for asylum have suspiciously similar stories using identical phrases. Many simply use the system to enter the U.S. and then melt into the shadows or gain a work permit while their application is pending.
“Asylum is meant to be granted to a very small number of people in extreme circumstances. Not as a substitute for the process of immigration itself. “
"Guilt-ridden over the rejection of many Jewish refugees during World War II the U.N. created a right of asylum to protect those who are fleeing regimes where they would be killed our imprisoned because of their identity or beliefs. This standard has gotten broader and broader over the years.”
“Applications from Hondurans, Guatemalans and Salvadorans have surged even though the murder rate in their countries has been cut in half. More broadly, hundreds of millions of people around the world who live in poor, unstable regions where threats of violence abound could easily apply for asylum. Do they all have the legal right to enter the U.S. through a backdoor, bypassing the normal immigration process?”
"Democrats have spent most of their efforts on this topic, assailing the Trump administration for its heartlessness. Fine. But that does not address the roots of this genuine crisis.”
90TrippB
>80 John5918:
There is no such thing as "human trash".
It’s possible I might be somewhat jaded. In my opinion, some evil people are irredeemable, and we should do all we can to keep those people out of our society. Screening immigrants is a quick win in terms of identifying known criminals and potential terrorists.
A secure border and effective immigration policy would prevent needless misery and death of Americans, like just the few of many I’ve listed below. Regarding wittingly or unwittingly buying into a narrative which is based on lies, which of these would you deem to be a lie?
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/undocumented-immigrant-charged-murder-cal...
https://www.montanasnews.tv/single-post/2019/05/28/Illegal-Alien-19-Year-Old-Mar...
MS-13 Gang Members Kill Girl, 14, After Maryland Jail Refuses ICE Detainer: In 2018, Fuentes-Ponce and Escobar, both Salvadoran nationals, were released from custody by Prince George’s County officials after being charged with multiple criminal offenses, including attempted first-degree murder, attempted second-degree murder, participation in gang activity, conspiracy to commit murder, and attempted robbery. The sanctuary county previously ignored an ICE detainer and released the pair leaving them free to commit the horrific crime in question. https://www.libertyheadlines.com/gang-kill-girl-maryland-detainer/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6907529/Illegal-immigrant-charged-killi...
https://nypost.com/2019/04/26/man-accused-of-killing-infant-over-paternity-had-b...
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/273381/illegal-alien-twice-deported-raped-and...
https://www.foxnews.com/us/washington-state-deputy-was-killed-by-illegal-immigra...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6846207/Illegal-immigrant-33-charged-sh...
Sanctuary Laws Allowed Illegal Immigrant Who Tried To Kill A Cop Remain In The US, ICE Claims https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/22/ice-california-sanctuary-law-cop/
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/21/police-illegal-alien-killed-four-a...
There is no such thing as "human trash".
It’s possible I might be somewhat jaded. In my opinion, some evil people are irredeemable, and we should do all we can to keep those people out of our society. Screening immigrants is a quick win in terms of identifying known criminals and potential terrorists.
A secure border and effective immigration policy would prevent needless misery and death of Americans, like just the few of many I’ve listed below. Regarding wittingly or unwittingly buying into a narrative which is based on lies, which of these would you deem to be a lie?
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/undocumented-immigrant-charged-murder-cal...
https://www.montanasnews.tv/single-post/2019/05/28/Illegal-Alien-19-Year-Old-Mar...
MS-13 Gang Members Kill Girl, 14, After Maryland Jail Refuses ICE Detainer: In 2018, Fuentes-Ponce and Escobar, both Salvadoran nationals, were released from custody by Prince George’s County officials after being charged with multiple criminal offenses, including attempted first-degree murder, attempted second-degree murder, participation in gang activity, conspiracy to commit murder, and attempted robbery. The sanctuary county previously ignored an ICE detainer and released the pair leaving them free to commit the horrific crime in question. https://www.libertyheadlines.com/gang-kill-girl-maryland-detainer/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6907529/Illegal-immigrant-charged-killi...
https://nypost.com/2019/04/26/man-accused-of-killing-infant-over-paternity-had-b...
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/273381/illegal-alien-twice-deported-raped-and...
https://www.foxnews.com/us/washington-state-deputy-was-killed-by-illegal-immigra...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6846207/Illegal-immigrant-33-charged-sh...
Sanctuary Laws Allowed Illegal Immigrant Who Tried To Kill A Cop Remain In The US, ICE Claims https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/22/ice-california-sanctuary-law-cop/
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/21/police-illegal-alien-killed-four-a...
91StormRaven
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that US immigration had prevented people from being able to walk directly to a border crossing point and claim asylum?
You are not wrong. In virtually every article about Oscar and Valeria Ramirez it is pointed out that Oscar tried to go to a port of entry, but the BP prevented him from being able to get to one and present himself to claim asylum. I will point out that preventing asylum seekers from applying for asylum is itself a violation of U.S. law. In short, the BP has created a lawless policy and created the unstable situation at the border. The BP is being taken to court a bunch these days, and losing. The ACLU announced today that it had secured a judgment against the administration concerning detention of asylum seekers.
The other thing about this is the whole "present yourself at a port of entry" thing is basically a right-wing lie. There is not only no requirement under U.S. that an asylum seeker present themselves at a port of entry, the law explicitly allows asylum seekers to seek asylum no matter how they entered the country - legally or illegally, at a port of entry or otherwise - all of that is immaterial to the asylum petition. The only requirement is that the asylum seeker be physically present in the United States.
You are not wrong. In virtually every article about Oscar and Valeria Ramirez it is pointed out that Oscar tried to go to a port of entry, but the BP prevented him from being able to get to one and present himself to claim asylum. I will point out that preventing asylum seekers from applying for asylum is itself a violation of U.S. law. In short, the BP has created a lawless policy and created the unstable situation at the border. The BP is being taken to court a bunch these days, and losing. The ACLU announced today that it had secured a judgment against the administration concerning detention of asylum seekers.
The other thing about this is the whole "present yourself at a port of entry" thing is basically a right-wing lie. There is not only no requirement under U.S. that an asylum seeker present themselves at a port of entry, the law explicitly allows asylum seekers to seek asylum no matter how they entered the country - legally or illegally, at a port of entry or otherwise - all of that is immaterial to the asylum petition. The only requirement is that the asylum seeker be physically present in the United States.
92StormRaven
A secure border and effective immigration policy would prevent needless misery and death of Americans, like just the few of many I’ve listed below. Regarding wittingly or unwittingly buying into a narrative which is based on lies, which of these would you deem to be a lie?
The part where you claim that "a secure border and effective immigration policy would prevent needless misery and death of Americans". That is a right-wing lie.
Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than native born individuals. If you want to see crime rates drop, you should admit more immigrants. Even the CATO Institute agrees that the evidence shows that immigrants, including illegal immigrants, commit crime less frequently than native born individuals.
Anyone claiming that stopping immigration will lead to less crime is a liar. Including you.
The part where you claim that "a secure border and effective immigration policy would prevent needless misery and death of Americans". That is a right-wing lie.
Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than native born individuals. If you want to see crime rates drop, you should admit more immigrants. Even the CATO Institute agrees that the evidence shows that immigrants, including illegal immigrants, commit crime less frequently than native born individuals.
Anyone claiming that stopping immigration will lead to less crime is a liar. Including you.
93LolaWalser
Deporting Republicans would prevent needless misery and death of Americans (to say nothing of not-Americans...)
But Hell doesn't want the scumbags.
But Hell doesn't want the scumbags.
94John5918
>91 StormRaven:
There was a piece on BBC radio yesterday where they interviewed a woman from Latin America who had recently made her way to the border, heavily pregnant, and had spent at least a month living in appalling conditions simply trying to get into the queue or line or beginning of the process for "legally" claiming asylum at a border crossing. Eventually when someone told her he knew of a way across the border "illegally", she took it out of desperation.
There was a piece on BBC radio yesterday where they interviewed a woman from Latin America who had recently made her way to the border, heavily pregnant, and had spent at least a month living in appalling conditions simply trying to get into the queue or line or beginning of the process for "legally" claiming asylum at a border crossing. Eventually when someone told her he knew of a way across the border "illegally", she took it out of desperation.
95John5918
>89 TrippB: "the United States faces a crisis with its asylum system.”
Precisely. The problem, or crisis, is not with the asylum seekers, the crisis is within the US asylum system. It is not fit for purpose, it is not performing the task it is supposed to perform, it is not receiving the funds and other resources it needs to do its job. Shifting the blame to the people fleeing from oppression is disingenuous, to say the least.
One also has to ask what is the fundamental underlying philosophy. Is it to find ways and means of helping these poor, desperate and vulnerable people (huddled masses) as much as possible, only turning away the very few who clearly pose a real and actual threat, or is it to turn away as many as possible, only allowing in a few exceptions?
“Asylum is meant to be granted to a very small number of people in extreme circumstances."
Since when? Surely asylum is meant to be granted to those who qualify for asylum, not according to some arbitrary mathematical formula?
Precisely. The problem, or crisis, is not with the asylum seekers, the crisis is within the US asylum system. It is not fit for purpose, it is not performing the task it is supposed to perform, it is not receiving the funds and other resources it needs to do its job. Shifting the blame to the people fleeing from oppression is disingenuous, to say the least.
One also has to ask what is the fundamental underlying philosophy. Is it to find ways and means of helping these poor, desperate and vulnerable people (huddled masses) as much as possible, only turning away the very few who clearly pose a real and actual threat, or is it to turn away as many as possible, only allowing in a few exceptions?
“Asylum is meant to be granted to a very small number of people in extreme circumstances."
Since when? Surely asylum is meant to be granted to those who qualify for asylum, not according to some arbitrary mathematical formula?
96margd
#56, #57
Trump’s Census Tweet Shows the U.S. Government Is Led by a Madman
Jay Michaelson | Updated 07.04.19
In one insane 24-hour period, the Trump administration shelved a proposed change to the census, then unshelved it, then admitted it has no idea what’s going on.
...Joshua Gardner, special counsel at the Department of Justice,...tell(s) the judge—on the phone, after the judge read (Trump's "fake news") tweet and asked for an impromptu hearing—that “I’ve always endeavored to be as candid as possible with the court. What I told the Court yesterday was absolutely my best understanding of the state of affairs… The tweet this morning was the first I had heard of the President’s position on this issue…. I am doing my absolute best to figure out what’s going on.”
...prolong the political battle, allowing Trump to score more points with his base.
...just having the president tweet about the citizenship question could, itself, deter some people from responding to the census. It’s entirely reasonable for folks to wonder: What are they asking? Would that get my family in trouble? And why risk it?
So, prolonging this battle makes political sense, even if there is no way to actually win it.
...the government will “perform the analysis requested” anyway, because doing so is politically expedient, and might just scare a few Latinos from responding. And most of all, because the president just tweeted that they would.
Welcome to the madhouse.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/2020-citizenship-census-question-trumps-tweet-show...
Trump’s Census Tweet Shows the U.S. Government Is Led by a Madman
Jay Michaelson | Updated 07.04.19
In one insane 24-hour period, the Trump administration shelved a proposed change to the census, then unshelved it, then admitted it has no idea what’s going on.
...Joshua Gardner, special counsel at the Department of Justice,...tell(s) the judge—on the phone, after the judge read (Trump's "fake news") tweet and asked for an impromptu hearing—that “I’ve always endeavored to be as candid as possible with the court. What I told the Court yesterday was absolutely my best understanding of the state of affairs… The tweet this morning was the first I had heard of the President’s position on this issue…. I am doing my absolute best to figure out what’s going on.”
...prolong the political battle, allowing Trump to score more points with his base.
...just having the president tweet about the citizenship question could, itself, deter some people from responding to the census. It’s entirely reasonable for folks to wonder: What are they asking? Would that get my family in trouble? And why risk it?
So, prolonging this battle makes political sense, even if there is no way to actually win it.
...the government will “perform the analysis requested” anyway, because doing so is politically expedient, and might just scare a few Latinos from responding. And most of all, because the president just tweeted that they would.
Welcome to the madhouse.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/2020-citizenship-census-question-trumps-tweet-show...
97TrippB
"Anyone claiming that stopping immigration will lead to less crime is a liar."
I don’t know if it was intentional, but you omitted an important qualifier. I haven’t been talking about immigrants—I’ve been focusing on illegal aliens. Most immigrants are grateful to be here, and I don’t doubt that they’re less likely to commit crimes. Several critics have pointed out flaws in the CATO study, and rates of incarceration for criminal offenses suggest CATO got it wrong when it comes to illegal aliens. In any case, look again at the few examples of horrific crimes I listed (and there are thousands and thousands more). Do you think the families of those victims would consider your mention of a CATO study to be consoling? In the case of Etta Nugent, a 75 year old woman, you would have had enough time to read her the entire report while she was being tortured by an illegal alien who eventually took her life. I don’t think your CATO study would have given her comfort.
Thousands of innocent Americans are dead because our immigration policy and enforcement is ineffective. You can cite all the dubious studies you want, but you cannot change that simple fact.
https://www.angelfamilies.org/
Regarding asylum, I’ve never read the original UN resolution. For those more familiar with it, does it say anything about passing through multiple other reasonably safe countries before finally requesting asylum at a preferred destination? I also doubt the veracity of many claims of imminent danger within their countries of origin. The reality is that the U.S., in the midst of record-setting low unemployment and a booming economy, is an attractive magnet for anyone seeking financial opportunity. I can understand that (and would welcome a well-controlled guest worker program), but it doesn’t mean we have to accept all comers into our society.
98John5918
>97 TrippB: being tortured by an illegal alien who eventually took her life
No, she was tortured by a criminal who eventually took her life. Thousands of people are killed every year by criminals who are US citizens. Why are you so focussed on the small number who are killed by non-US citizens? Incidentally non-US citizens who are in the USA legally also kill. There is no foolproof indicator which your immigration service can use to predict whether someone will snap and commit murder or any other criminal act at some point in the future. As you may be aware, the people who committed the 9/11 tragedy were in the USA legally.
No, she was tortured by a criminal who eventually took her life. Thousands of people are killed every year by criminals who are US citizens. Why are you so focussed on the small number who are killed by non-US citizens? Incidentally non-US citizens who are in the USA legally also kill. There is no foolproof indicator which your immigration service can use to predict whether someone will snap and commit murder or any other criminal act at some point in the future. As you may be aware, the people who committed the 9/11 tragedy were in the USA legally.
99StormRaven
Several critics have pointed out flaws in the CATO study, and rates of incarceration for criminal offenses suggest CATO got it wrong when it comes to illegal aliens.
Except that the CATO study didn't get it wrong.
I notice that when you want to lie about something, you do this handwavy thing where you say "several". This is another one of those times.
In any case, look again at the few examples of horrific crimes I listed (and there are thousands and thousands more).
The plural of anecdote is not data. All you have provided are anecdotes, and pretty rare ones at that. As was pointed out by the CATO paper, the number of people killed by illegal immigrants is less than half a percent of the murders in the U.S. Illegal immigrants are far less likely to murder you than native born individuals. In fact, if we let large numbers of illegal immigrants into the U.S., the evidence shows that murder rate would fall precipitously.
Try this for size. Here is a murder conviction of a man named Tripp. Based on this, I conclude that all people who use the name Tripp in any capacity are murderers and should be imprisoned for life or executed by lethal injection. I will note that this is the exact same logic you have been using to claim that immigrants should be kept out of the U.S. Because of this, I assume that you will now immediately turn yourself in for imprisonment or execution.
Except that the CATO study didn't get it wrong.
I notice that when you want to lie about something, you do this handwavy thing where you say "several". This is another one of those times.
In any case, look again at the few examples of horrific crimes I listed (and there are thousands and thousands more).
The plural of anecdote is not data. All you have provided are anecdotes, and pretty rare ones at that. As was pointed out by the CATO paper, the number of people killed by illegal immigrants is less than half a percent of the murders in the U.S. Illegal immigrants are far less likely to murder you than native born individuals. In fact, if we let large numbers of illegal immigrants into the U.S., the evidence shows that murder rate would fall precipitously.
Try this for size. Here is a murder conviction of a man named Tripp. Based on this, I conclude that all people who use the name Tripp in any capacity are murderers and should be imprisoned for life or executed by lethal injection. I will note that this is the exact same logic you have been using to claim that immigrants should be kept out of the U.S. Because of this, I assume that you will now immediately turn yourself in for imprisonment or execution.
100StormRaven
Regarding asylum, I’ve never read the original UN resolution. For those more familiar with it, does it say anything about passing through multiple other reasonably safe countries before finally requesting asylum at a preferred destination?
I will point that this is yet another instance in which you reveal that you have no idea what you are talking about. You've been banging on about immigrants and refugees and how the system is broken and in need of reform, and here you are admitting that you don't even know the most basic elements of the issue. You keep trumpeting your ignorance alongside constantly lying and you expect people will treat your opinions as anything but the worthless trash that they are.
Asylum is not governed by a U.N. resolution. It is governed by the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, which is a treaty worked out in the U.N., but is a treaty rather than a resolution. This means that individual member states have to ratify the treaty to be bound by it. 145 nations have ratified the treaty. The 1951 Treaty was followed up by a 1967 Protocol, which incorporated much of the 1951 Treaty and removed some limitations contained in the previous document. The United States has ratified the 1967 Protocol - I will note that ratifying a treaty gives that treaty the status of Federal law in the United States.
To answer the specific question: No. There is nothing that says a refugee must apply for asylum in the first safe country they come to. There is nothing in U.S. law that says that either. The whole "first safe country" thing is yet another right-wing piece of misinformation.
I will point that this is yet another instance in which you reveal that you have no idea what you are talking about. You've been banging on about immigrants and refugees and how the system is broken and in need of reform, and here you are admitting that you don't even know the most basic elements of the issue. You keep trumpeting your ignorance alongside constantly lying and you expect people will treat your opinions as anything but the worthless trash that they are.
Asylum is not governed by a U.N. resolution. It is governed by the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, which is a treaty worked out in the U.N., but is a treaty rather than a resolution. This means that individual member states have to ratify the treaty to be bound by it. 145 nations have ratified the treaty. The 1951 Treaty was followed up by a 1967 Protocol, which incorporated much of the 1951 Treaty and removed some limitations contained in the previous document. The United States has ratified the 1967 Protocol - I will note that ratifying a treaty gives that treaty the status of Federal law in the United States.
To answer the specific question: No. There is nothing that says a refugee must apply for asylum in the first safe country they come to. There is nothing in U.S. law that says that either. The whole "first safe country" thing is yet another right-wing piece of misinformation.
101John5918
>100 StormRaven: does it say anything about passing through multiple other reasonably safe countries before finally requesting asylum at a preferred destination
I think StormRaven is correct. Perhaps what confuses people is that within the EU I believe there is an internal agreement that people should seek asylum in the first country they arrive in, because the EU is a single political entiity of countries with basically the same laws, all signing up to the same human rights legislation. On the other hand some countries on the Mediterranean, for example, may feel that is rather unfair as they end up with more asylum seekers than countries in the far north of Europe. Swings and roundabouts.
I think StormRaven is correct. Perhaps what confuses people is that within the EU I believe there is an internal agreement that people should seek asylum in the first country they arrive in, because the EU is a single political entiity of countries with basically the same laws, all signing up to the same human rights legislation. On the other hand some countries on the Mediterranean, for example, may feel that is rather unfair as they end up with more asylum seekers than countries in the far north of Europe. Swings and roundabouts.
102TrippB
>99 StormRaven:
What makes you so confident the CATO study got it right? I think the several (good word, several) critics who looked into the CATO methodology have introduced sufficient basis for reasonable doubt. For some of CATO’s assessment of data, their methodology was little more than a guess.
“The Cato study concluded that ‘legal and illegal immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated than natives’ and the Sentencing Project concluded in their report that ‘foreign-born residents of the United States commit crime less often than native-born citizens.’ But the issue isn’t non-citizens who are in this country legally, and who must abide by the law to avoid having their visas revoked or their application for citizenship refused. The real issue is the crimes committed by illegal aliens. And in that context, the claim is quite misleading, because both of these studies combine the crime rates of both citizens and non-citizens, legal and illegal.
Instead of using official crime data, these reports also use surveys. The Sentencing Project measures ‘crime and related behavior based on self-reported accounts of behavior’ and Cato uses the United States Census American Community Survey (ACS). For obvious reasons, there is little incentive for anyone, let alone criminal aliens, to self-report their crimes. Many respondents will likely also fail to disclose that they are not a citizen out of fear of discovery and deportation.
These studies overlook disturbing actual data on crimes committed by criminal aliens. For example, the Government Accountability Office released two unsettling reports in 2005 on criminal aliens who are in prison for committing crimes in the United States, and issued an updated report in 2011.
The first report found that criminal aliens, both legal and illegal, make up 27 percent of all federal prisoners. Yet non-citizens are only about nine percent of the nation’s adult population. Thus, judging by the numbers in federal prisons alone, non-citizens commit federal crimes at three times the rate of citizens.
The findings in the second report are even more disturbing. It reviewed the criminal histories of 55,322 aliens in federal or state prisons and local jails who “entered the country illegally.” Those illegal aliens were arrested 459,614 times, an average of 8.3 arrests per illegal alien, and committed almost 700,000 criminal offenses, an average of roughly 12.7 offenses per illegal alien.
The 2011 GAO report is more of the same. The criminal histories of 251,000 criminal aliens showed that they had committed close to three million criminal offenses. Sixty-eight percent of those in federal prison and 66 percent of those in state prisons were from Mexico. Their offenses ranged from homicide and kidnapping to drugs, rape, burglary, and larceny.
Once again, these statistics are not fully representative of crimes committed by illegal aliens — this report only reflects the criminal histories of aliens who were in prison. If there were a way to include all crimes committed by criminal aliens, the numbers would likely be higher since prosecutors often drop criminal charges against an illegal alien if immigration authorities will deport the alien.
The GAO reports also highlight another flaw in using survey data from a national sample. A key factor highlighted in the GAO reports is that criminal aliens from Mexico disproportionately make up incarcerations and that most arrests are made in the three border states of California, Texas, and Arizona.
In sum, it has not been proven that illegal aliens commit crimes at a lesser rate than either native-born or naturalized American citizens. In fact, existing data may support the opposite conclusion.”
{This is an excerpt of an article by Hans A. von Spakovsky, Senior Legal Fellow with the Heritage Foundation)
https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/crimes-illegal-aliens-not-legal-...
“Two new studies, one from The Sentencing Project and one from the libertarian Cato Institute, reported that the percentage of immigrants committing crimes is lower than that of United States citizens. However, the underlying methodology used in each was critically flawed.”
(Excerpt from an article by Ronald Mortensen, Ph.D., as published in The Hill)
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/326272-most-illegal-aliens-ro...
There are others, but it’s not worth my time to find them again.
All you have provided are anecdotes, and pretty rare ones at that.
In the memory of Etta Nugent, and many thousands of other Americans who are no longer with us due to ineffective immigration controls, I will not allow people like you to go unchallenged when you discount lives cut short by illegal aliens and refer to innocent victims as mere rare anecdotes.
” I will note that this is the exact same logic you have been using to claim that immigrants should be kept out of the U.S. Because of this, I assume that you will now immediately turn yourself in for imprisonment or execution.
I could say, “You’re lying,” but that is a weak tactic. The point you’ve tried to make does not illustrate the logic I have used, and I have never said I want to keep immigrants out of the U.S. I’m not anti-immigrant. I recognize the value immigrants bring to the U.S., and strongly support bringing good people to the U.S. However, I am very much anti-illegal immigrant. Anyone entering the country illegally has already proven they have no respect for our laws. We often deport criminal illegal aliens who are known to be violent. When they're deported, they simply stroll or swim across the border, again, and often take refuge in Democrat-dominated sanctuary locales.
Regarding the asylum issue, unlike some people here, I have no qualms admitting when I don’t know something. I appreciate the background you provided, even if it was delivered in your typical obnoxious manner. However, you are wrong when you say it is the most basic element of this issue. My concern is illegal immigration and the hordes of people who have snuck across the border—too often multiple times—and too often with tragic results for innocent Americans. Asylum is a minor factor in that issue.
I’ll say it again, because it is still true. Thousands of innocent Americans are dead because our immigration policy and enforcement is ineffective. None of your accusations, denials, or handwavy weak arguments can prove that statement wrong. You haven’t proven anything.
What makes you so confident the CATO study got it right? I think the several (good word, several) critics who looked into the CATO methodology have introduced sufficient basis for reasonable doubt. For some of CATO’s assessment of data, their methodology was little more than a guess.
“The Cato study concluded that ‘legal and illegal immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated than natives’ and the Sentencing Project concluded in their report that ‘foreign-born residents of the United States commit crime less often than native-born citizens.’ But the issue isn’t non-citizens who are in this country legally, and who must abide by the law to avoid having their visas revoked or their application for citizenship refused. The real issue is the crimes committed by illegal aliens. And in that context, the claim is quite misleading, because both of these studies combine the crime rates of both citizens and non-citizens, legal and illegal.
Instead of using official crime data, these reports also use surveys. The Sentencing Project measures ‘crime and related behavior based on self-reported accounts of behavior’ and Cato uses the United States Census American Community Survey (ACS). For obvious reasons, there is little incentive for anyone, let alone criminal aliens, to self-report their crimes. Many respondents will likely also fail to disclose that they are not a citizen out of fear of discovery and deportation.
These studies overlook disturbing actual data on crimes committed by criminal aliens. For example, the Government Accountability Office released two unsettling reports in 2005 on criminal aliens who are in prison for committing crimes in the United States, and issued an updated report in 2011.
The first report found that criminal aliens, both legal and illegal, make up 27 percent of all federal prisoners. Yet non-citizens are only about nine percent of the nation’s adult population. Thus, judging by the numbers in federal prisons alone, non-citizens commit federal crimes at three times the rate of citizens.
The findings in the second report are even more disturbing. It reviewed the criminal histories of 55,322 aliens in federal or state prisons and local jails who “entered the country illegally.” Those illegal aliens were arrested 459,614 times, an average of 8.3 arrests per illegal alien, and committed almost 700,000 criminal offenses, an average of roughly 12.7 offenses per illegal alien.
The 2011 GAO report is more of the same. The criminal histories of 251,000 criminal aliens showed that they had committed close to three million criminal offenses. Sixty-eight percent of those in federal prison and 66 percent of those in state prisons were from Mexico. Their offenses ranged from homicide and kidnapping to drugs, rape, burglary, and larceny.
Once again, these statistics are not fully representative of crimes committed by illegal aliens — this report only reflects the criminal histories of aliens who were in prison. If there were a way to include all crimes committed by criminal aliens, the numbers would likely be higher since prosecutors often drop criminal charges against an illegal alien if immigration authorities will deport the alien.
The GAO reports also highlight another flaw in using survey data from a national sample. A key factor highlighted in the GAO reports is that criminal aliens from Mexico disproportionately make up incarcerations and that most arrests are made in the three border states of California, Texas, and Arizona.
In sum, it has not been proven that illegal aliens commit crimes at a lesser rate than either native-born or naturalized American citizens. In fact, existing data may support the opposite conclusion.”
{This is an excerpt of an article by Hans A. von Spakovsky, Senior Legal Fellow with the Heritage Foundation)
https://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/crimes-illegal-aliens-not-legal-...
“Two new studies, one from The Sentencing Project and one from the libertarian Cato Institute, reported that the percentage of immigrants committing crimes is lower than that of United States citizens. However, the underlying methodology used in each was critically flawed.”
(Excerpt from an article by Ronald Mortensen, Ph.D., as published in The Hill)
https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/immigration/326272-most-illegal-aliens-ro...
There are others, but it’s not worth my time to find them again.
All you have provided are anecdotes, and pretty rare ones at that.
In the memory of Etta Nugent, and many thousands of other Americans who are no longer with us due to ineffective immigration controls, I will not allow people like you to go unchallenged when you discount lives cut short by illegal aliens and refer to innocent victims as mere rare anecdotes.
” I will note that this is the exact same logic you have been using to claim that immigrants should be kept out of the U.S. Because of this, I assume that you will now immediately turn yourself in for imprisonment or execution.
I could say, “You’re lying,” but that is a weak tactic. The point you’ve tried to make does not illustrate the logic I have used, and I have never said I want to keep immigrants out of the U.S. I’m not anti-immigrant. I recognize the value immigrants bring to the U.S., and strongly support bringing good people to the U.S. However, I am very much anti-illegal immigrant. Anyone entering the country illegally has already proven they have no respect for our laws. We often deport criminal illegal aliens who are known to be violent. When they're deported, they simply stroll or swim across the border, again, and often take refuge in Democrat-dominated sanctuary locales.
Regarding the asylum issue, unlike some people here, I have no qualms admitting when I don’t know something. I appreciate the background you provided, even if it was delivered in your typical obnoxious manner. However, you are wrong when you say it is the most basic element of this issue. My concern is illegal immigration and the hordes of people who have snuck across the border—too often multiple times—and too often with tragic results for innocent Americans. Asylum is a minor factor in that issue.
I’ll say it again, because it is still true. Thousands of innocent Americans are dead because our immigration policy and enforcement is ineffective. None of your accusations, denials, or handwavy weak arguments can prove that statement wrong. You haven’t proven anything.
103John5918
>102 TrippB: Anyone entering the country illegally has already proven they have no respect for our laws.
No, no, no. Not when your laws make it virtually impossible for many ordinary asylum seekers to access the so-called "legal" process for entering. They have a right to seek asylum which overrides petty local regulations and laws. Note I am not saying they automatically have the right to be granted permanent asylum, but what your current system of laws, praxis and propaganda is doing is making it virtually impossible for many of them to even seek to do so "legally".
No, no, no. Not when your laws make it virtually impossible for many ordinary asylum seekers to access the so-called "legal" process for entering. They have a right to seek asylum which overrides petty local regulations and laws. Note I am not saying they automatically have the right to be granted permanent asylum, but what your current system of laws, praxis and propaganda is doing is making it virtually impossible for many of them to even seek to do so "legally".
104StormRaven
What makes you so confident the CATO study got it right?
Because the criticism you cite was written by people who clearly didn't read the CATO paper I linked. The CATO paper specifically goes into distinguishing between legal and illegal immigrants and determines that illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crime than the general population, and yet the "critic" you cited didn't notice that. He cites the GAO study incorrectly, and fails to note that more than 90% of the federal prisoners included in the study are incarcerated for entirely non violent offenses (mostly immigration violations). The criticism bases itself heavily on the GAO report, which covers federal prisoners, but that is just a small subset of crime data. It takes CATO to task for getting things wrong, but CATO used a broader set of data than your cited critic, including Texas crime data. Your critic is guilty of comparing apples and oranges and also selectively cherry picking data. I also note that the "critic" you primarily cited is from the Heritage Foundation, an organization with an established penchant for lying (in fact, the primary purpose of the Heritage Foundation appears to be to lie about things).
In short, you've taken your shot at criticizing the CATO paper and cited someone who can't even get the basics of what either the CATO Institute or the GAO said correct.
The point you’ve tried to make does not illustrate the logic I have used
In fact, it does. By your logic, I have proven in this thread that you are both a pedophile and a murderer. I will, from now on refer to you as "TrippB, proven pedophile and murderer".
Anyone entering the country illegally has already proven they have no respect for our laws.
They have as much respect for our laws as most of the native-born residents in the country. Entering illegally is a misdemeanor (and wasn't even a misdemeanor until 1996). That makes their "disrespect" for our laws the same level of disrespect as people who get moving violations.
We often deport criminal illegal aliens who are known to be violent.
"Known to be violent", and yet without evidence sufficient to convict them of a crime - because when an illegal alien has committed a crime, the U.S. generally prosecutes them when there is evidence sufficient to secure a conviction. If there is no evidence to convict them, there is no option for the government other than deporting them. As much as you would seem to want to convict immigrants of crimes without evidence, in the U.S. you just can't do that.
I’ll say it again, because it is still true. Thousands of innocent Americans are dead because our immigration policy and enforcement is ineffective.
It is still a lie. The number of innocent Americans who are dead because of immigration policy is vanishngly small. I should have noted earlier that you have been citing articles from Breitbart and Daily Caller. Those sources are completely worthless and anyone who cites them as news sources has thrown in their lot with white supremacists. You have demonstrated in this thread that, contrary to johnthefireman's assertion, there is in fact human trash. You are it. You are now "TrippB, proven pedophile, murderer, and white supremacist".
Because the criticism you cite was written by people who clearly didn't read the CATO paper I linked. The CATO paper specifically goes into distinguishing between legal and illegal immigrants and determines that illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crime than the general population, and yet the "critic" you cited didn't notice that. He cites the GAO study incorrectly, and fails to note that more than 90% of the federal prisoners included in the study are incarcerated for entirely non violent offenses (mostly immigration violations). The criticism bases itself heavily on the GAO report, which covers federal prisoners, but that is just a small subset of crime data. It takes CATO to task for getting things wrong, but CATO used a broader set of data than your cited critic, including Texas crime data. Your critic is guilty of comparing apples and oranges and also selectively cherry picking data. I also note that the "critic" you primarily cited is from the Heritage Foundation, an organization with an established penchant for lying (in fact, the primary purpose of the Heritage Foundation appears to be to lie about things).
In short, you've taken your shot at criticizing the CATO paper and cited someone who can't even get the basics of what either the CATO Institute or the GAO said correct.
The point you’ve tried to make does not illustrate the logic I have used
In fact, it does. By your logic, I have proven in this thread that you are both a pedophile and a murderer. I will, from now on refer to you as "TrippB, proven pedophile and murderer".
Anyone entering the country illegally has already proven they have no respect for our laws.
They have as much respect for our laws as most of the native-born residents in the country. Entering illegally is a misdemeanor (and wasn't even a misdemeanor until 1996). That makes their "disrespect" for our laws the same level of disrespect as people who get moving violations.
We often deport criminal illegal aliens who are known to be violent.
"Known to be violent", and yet without evidence sufficient to convict them of a crime - because when an illegal alien has committed a crime, the U.S. generally prosecutes them when there is evidence sufficient to secure a conviction. If there is no evidence to convict them, there is no option for the government other than deporting them. As much as you would seem to want to convict immigrants of crimes without evidence, in the U.S. you just can't do that.
I’ll say it again, because it is still true. Thousands of innocent Americans are dead because our immigration policy and enforcement is ineffective.
It is still a lie. The number of innocent Americans who are dead because of immigration policy is vanishngly small. I should have noted earlier that you have been citing articles from Breitbart and Daily Caller. Those sources are completely worthless and anyone who cites them as news sources has thrown in their lot with white supremacists. You have demonstrated in this thread that, contrary to johnthefireman's assertion, there is in fact human trash. You are it. You are now "TrippB, proven pedophile, murderer, and white supremacist".
105TrippB
>103 John5918:
“Not when your laws make it virtually impossible…”
I agree with you on this. Among the fixes needed for our broken immigration system, I’d like to see a guest worker program that will allow more people to temporarily work in the U.S. In my experience, many illegal aliens have no interest in staying in the U.S. permanently. They want to come in for a limited period, work hard (I worked right beside them when I was young), make money, and go home. Our laws make that difficult, so many stay rather than risk crossing the border again, and that requires them to remain in the shadows.
A well-controlled guest worker program would enable background checks to be done before they enter, and also help to identify, find, and deport those guests who are a threat to society.
Also, I may have taken it for granted, but I'd like to say that I appreciate your ability to have a civil conversation, even when we disagree.
“Not when your laws make it virtually impossible…”
I agree with you on this. Among the fixes needed for our broken immigration system, I’d like to see a guest worker program that will allow more people to temporarily work in the U.S. In my experience, many illegal aliens have no interest in staying in the U.S. permanently. They want to come in for a limited period, work hard (I worked right beside them when I was young), make money, and go home. Our laws make that difficult, so many stay rather than risk crossing the border again, and that requires them to remain in the shadows.
A well-controlled guest worker program would enable background checks to be done before they enter, and also help to identify, find, and deport those guests who are a threat to society.
Also, I may have taken it for granted, but I'd like to say that I appreciate your ability to have a civil conversation, even when we disagree.
106TrippB
>104 StormRaven:
”Cato…”
I still have doubts on the Cato study, but statistics and studies are not significant factors in my opinions. I also don’t care about your weak attempts to dismiss violent crimes of illegal aliens. I just want the porous border to be properly protected; I want visa violators deported; and I want zero tolerance for violence by immigrants. One strike, you’re out, and don’t come back, effectively enforced. You obviously want open borders, and suggest that when more people die as a result of Democrat refusals to fix the border and enforce immigration policy, we should just accept that as a vanishingly small part of crime. I won’t accept it, and I won’t accept your excuses or attempted diversions.
” the primary purpose of the Heritage Foundation appears to be to lie about things”,
So the Heritage Foundation is a proponent of lies? I’ve recognized that your definition of lies are any opinions counter to your own. That’s encouragement enough for me to look into them further, and maybe start donating to their cause. https://www.heritage.org/immigration. Thank you for inspiring me to read their material. They have excellent information on many issues.
”By your logic,..
Let’s apply your logic to one of our usual areas of disagreement. Out of the approximately 300 million firearms in the U.S., an even more miniscule percentage of guns are used for illegal acts (compared to percentage of crimes by illegal aliens). Obviously, going by your logic, that means that no action is needed on guns, right?
” If there is no evidence to convict them, there is no option for the government other than deporting them.”
As we should.
“Those sources are completely worthless”
I didn’t seek out articles from Breitbart or Daily Caller. I simply did a quick internet search for something along the lines of “illegal alien murdered” and those were among the many thousands of results. In your broad dismissal of the sources, I notice you selected to not challenge the accuracy of the actual articles. You know that headlines like, “ Illegal Alien, Twice Deported, Raped and Killed Jogger in Sanctuary State“ are factual and, unfortunately, too common.
Personally, I don’t need sources, and your denials will never be able to eliminate the experiences that have shaped my views. Not to go into too much detail or sound melodramatic, but I’ve been up close and personal with violence committed by criminal illegal aliens (often against peaceful illegal aliens), to the point where the aftermath sometimes dripped onto my shoes. The violence should never have happened, as the people who committed the crimes should have been deported and permanently kept out of the country after their first criminal offense.
Finally, for someone who claimed that my opinion doesn’t matter and “there is no reason to continue to respond to you,” you’ve sure devoted a lot of time on rebuttals. Continuing on the track you’re on, your posts will soon devolve into nothing more than sputtering, name-calling, tantrums. Your attempts at insult don’t offend me—that would require me to have at least a modicum of respect for you, and I don’t. Regardless, I’ve had more than enough of you on this issue, and will bow out, for now. It’s gotten boring.
”Cato…”
I still have doubts on the Cato study, but statistics and studies are not significant factors in my opinions. I also don’t care about your weak attempts to dismiss violent crimes of illegal aliens. I just want the porous border to be properly protected; I want visa violators deported; and I want zero tolerance for violence by immigrants. One strike, you’re out, and don’t come back, effectively enforced. You obviously want open borders, and suggest that when more people die as a result of Democrat refusals to fix the border and enforce immigration policy, we should just accept that as a vanishingly small part of crime. I won’t accept it, and I won’t accept your excuses or attempted diversions.
” the primary purpose of the Heritage Foundation appears to be to lie about things”,
So the Heritage Foundation is a proponent of lies? I’ve recognized that your definition of lies are any opinions counter to your own. That’s encouragement enough for me to look into them further, and maybe start donating to their cause. https://www.heritage.org/immigration. Thank you for inspiring me to read their material. They have excellent information on many issues.
”By your logic,..
Let’s apply your logic to one of our usual areas of disagreement. Out of the approximately 300 million firearms in the U.S., an even more miniscule percentage of guns are used for illegal acts (compared to percentage of crimes by illegal aliens). Obviously, going by your logic, that means that no action is needed on guns, right?
” If there is no evidence to convict them, there is no option for the government other than deporting them.”
As we should.
“Those sources are completely worthless”
I didn’t seek out articles from Breitbart or Daily Caller. I simply did a quick internet search for something along the lines of “illegal alien murdered” and those were among the many thousands of results. In your broad dismissal of the sources, I notice you selected to not challenge the accuracy of the actual articles. You know that headlines like, “ Illegal Alien, Twice Deported, Raped and Killed Jogger in Sanctuary State“ are factual and, unfortunately, too common.
Personally, I don’t need sources, and your denials will never be able to eliminate the experiences that have shaped my views. Not to go into too much detail or sound melodramatic, but I’ve been up close and personal with violence committed by criminal illegal aliens (often against peaceful illegal aliens), to the point where the aftermath sometimes dripped onto my shoes. The violence should never have happened, as the people who committed the crimes should have been deported and permanently kept out of the country after their first criminal offense.
Finally, for someone who claimed that my opinion doesn’t matter and “there is no reason to continue to respond to you,” you’ve sure devoted a lot of time on rebuttals. Continuing on the track you’re on, your posts will soon devolve into nothing more than sputtering, name-calling, tantrums. Your attempts at insult don’t offend me—that would require me to have at least a modicum of respect for you, and I don’t. Regardless, I’ve had more than enough of you on this issue, and will bow out, for now. It’s gotten boring.
107John5918
>105 TrippB: I appreciate your ability to have a civil conversation, even when we disagree.
Thanks, and likewise.
>106 TrippB: zero tolerance for violence by immigrants. One strike, you’re out, and don’t come back, effectively enforced
Again, I disagree with you (civilly, I hope). There have been scenarios in various countries where someone who came as a young immigrant, brought by their parents perhaps, and spent their entire conscious life in their new country has, much later in life, committed an offence. That person has never even known the country of their birth, probably doesn't know the language or culture, perhaps has no remaining family there, no roots there whatsoever. They have been educated and formed by the standards of the "new" country. They may be married and have children within the "new" country. They may own property, a house, a business. They may have paid taxes for many years, have a pension plan. As far as that person is concerned, and in reality, they are part of the "new" country and do not know anything different. If they commit a crime, they should be punished according to the laws of the country where they have spent their entire life, just as a native-born person would be. It is a cruel and inhumane punishment to exile them to an unknown country, and it is unfair to impose a vastly greater sentence on one criminal than you would on another. And, if someone who grew up and was nurtured by US society becomes a violent criminal, does the USA not bear some responsibility, and is it fair just to export the violent criminal to some other nation, perhaps one which doesn't have the same level of policing as the USA, so that he or she can potentially kill someone else? Or does it not matter if someone is killed outside the USA?
The violence should never have happened, as the people who committed the crimes should have been deported and permanently kept out of the country after their first criminal offense.
No violence should ever happen, but it does. Legal immigrants sometimes commit crimes. US citizens kill each other and kill migrants. If you're so keen on exporting violent criminals, why not deport all US citizens who commit violent crimes?
Thanks, and likewise.
>106 TrippB: zero tolerance for violence by immigrants. One strike, you’re out, and don’t come back, effectively enforced
Again, I disagree with you (civilly, I hope). There have been scenarios in various countries where someone who came as a young immigrant, brought by their parents perhaps, and spent their entire conscious life in their new country has, much later in life, committed an offence. That person has never even known the country of their birth, probably doesn't know the language or culture, perhaps has no remaining family there, no roots there whatsoever. They have been educated and formed by the standards of the "new" country. They may be married and have children within the "new" country. They may own property, a house, a business. They may have paid taxes for many years, have a pension plan. As far as that person is concerned, and in reality, they are part of the "new" country and do not know anything different. If they commit a crime, they should be punished according to the laws of the country where they have spent their entire life, just as a native-born person would be. It is a cruel and inhumane punishment to exile them to an unknown country, and it is unfair to impose a vastly greater sentence on one criminal than you would on another. And, if someone who grew up and was nurtured by US society becomes a violent criminal, does the USA not bear some responsibility, and is it fair just to export the violent criminal to some other nation, perhaps one which doesn't have the same level of policing as the USA, so that he or she can potentially kill someone else? Or does it not matter if someone is killed outside the USA?
The violence should never have happened, as the people who committed the crimes should have been deported and permanently kept out of the country after their first criminal offense.
No violence should ever happen, but it does. Legal immigrants sometimes commit crimes. US citizens kill each other and kill migrants. If you're so keen on exporting violent criminals, why not deport all US citizens who commit violent crimes?
108margd
Treatment of refugees and wouldbe immigrants at our southern border is yet another impeachable, high crime.
The Warden of Andersonville prison was the only Confederate tried for war crimes...
A Crime by Any Name
Adam Serwer | Jul 3, 2019
The Trump administration’s commitment to deterring immigration through cruelty has made horrifying conditions in detention facilities inevitable.
...the warden of the (Confederate) prison, Henry Wirz, became one of the only people tried for war crimes...The former Confederate captain was arrested in 1865, shortly after the close of the Civil War. The Union accused him of intending to “impair and injure the health and to destroy the lives of the prisoners, by subjecting them to torture and great suffering, by confining in unhealthy and unwholesome quarters.” Wirz was charged with conspiracy to murder Union prisoners by offering them spoiled food, fouled water, and inadequate living conditions and medical care.
...The conditions at these facilities (on southern border) may not result from acts of deliberate malice, but as with Andersonville, the administration’s unwavering pursuit of its ideological goal—making life so unbearable for migrants that they turn back—has made these conditions inevitable. The administration’s harsh approach to both the migrants and their countries of origin has failed in its stated aim. It has not decreased the number of people seeking refuge here, but the more people arrive, the harsher the administration’s response becomes. The administration’s only proposed solution is to legalize the unlawfully draconian treatment it has inflicted on migrants.
Although the administration has, in the past, misleadingly attempted to present conditions at the border as a crisis, there is now a genuine surge in the number of people fleeing violence and poverty in their home countries and seeking a better life in the United States. But to say there is a real problem at the border is not to endorse the Trump administration’s methods, which have only exacerbated the crisis, nor its proposed solutions, which would only worsen the conditions in the migrants’ nations of origin, leading to further emigration.
The Confederacy faced a genuine shortage of supplies for prisoners at Andersonville—but it also refused the obvious solution, declining a prisoner exchange. Upholding white supremacy was the reason for the Confederacy’s existence, and therefore too precious a goal to abandon. Above all else, the Trump administration wants to send the message that immigrants, especially those of African or Latin American descent, are not welcome in the United States, and as far as detention facilities are concerned, incompetence or indifference will serve that cause as faithfully as malice.
...The Trump administration could make it easier for migrants who do not pose a threat to public safety to be released pending deportation hearings, for which the overwhelming majority of undocumented immigrants show up, despite the president’s insistence otherwise. That would relieve the pressure on overstressed detention facilities. But it would also be insufficiently cruel, and therefore weak. And the cruelty is the point.
How could this be? To understand the Trump administration’s approach, consider his brain trust. Though the president himself is from Queens, New York, as Jane Coaston has written, the ideological engine of his administration is rooted in California, once the Reagan heartland, now a conservative wasteland. Trump advisers such as Stephen Miller are convinced that they lost California not through persuasion, but through demographics—that an influx of Latinos forever doomed conservatism. Cruelty toward migrants, even children, is justified as necessary to preserve the republic against what these advisers see as a foreign invasion. That Trump’s own home borough, once the home of Archie Bunker, is now one of the most diverse areas in the country likely only increases the resonance of this argument for the president.
On Fox News, which exercises unparalleled influence over Trump, conservative pundits warn that they will “lose the country” because of a “demographic shift” driven by Latino immigration, echoing warnings of “race suicide” from a century ago. Presenting Latino immigration as an existential threat allows both the president and his supporters to justify anything they might choose to do in response.
Yet this is not an inevitability, but a choice—conservatives in California made a political decision to demonize immigrants and paid the price. In Texas, where the GOP once charted a more moderate path, the party’s dominance was unchallenged until recently. Demographics are not destiny, unless you make them so. A conservatism that appeals almost exclusively to white people, and views nonwhites as an existential threat, is not worth fighting for.
The argument over whether or not these facilities amount to concentration camps is almost beside the point. The semantic dispute obscures the true conflict, over whether the Trump administration’s treatment of migrants amounts to a historic crime, whether future generations will wonder how those involved could possibly have gone along with it, whether there will one day be memorials erected to commemorate it, whether historians write solemn books about it, whether those looking back will vow never to repeat it.
These facilities are just such a crime, by whatever name you choose to call them.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-facilities/593239/
The Warden of Andersonville prison was the only Confederate tried for war crimes...
A Crime by Any Name
Adam Serwer | Jul 3, 2019
The Trump administration’s commitment to deterring immigration through cruelty has made horrifying conditions in detention facilities inevitable.
...the warden of the (Confederate) prison, Henry Wirz, became one of the only people tried for war crimes...The former Confederate captain was arrested in 1865, shortly after the close of the Civil War. The Union accused him of intending to “impair and injure the health and to destroy the lives of the prisoners, by subjecting them to torture and great suffering, by confining in unhealthy and unwholesome quarters.” Wirz was charged with conspiracy to murder Union prisoners by offering them spoiled food, fouled water, and inadequate living conditions and medical care.
...The conditions at these facilities (on southern border) may not result from acts of deliberate malice, but as with Andersonville, the administration’s unwavering pursuit of its ideological goal—making life so unbearable for migrants that they turn back—has made these conditions inevitable. The administration’s harsh approach to both the migrants and their countries of origin has failed in its stated aim. It has not decreased the number of people seeking refuge here, but the more people arrive, the harsher the administration’s response becomes. The administration’s only proposed solution is to legalize the unlawfully draconian treatment it has inflicted on migrants.
Although the administration has, in the past, misleadingly attempted to present conditions at the border as a crisis, there is now a genuine surge in the number of people fleeing violence and poverty in their home countries and seeking a better life in the United States. But to say there is a real problem at the border is not to endorse the Trump administration’s methods, which have only exacerbated the crisis, nor its proposed solutions, which would only worsen the conditions in the migrants’ nations of origin, leading to further emigration.
The Confederacy faced a genuine shortage of supplies for prisoners at Andersonville—but it also refused the obvious solution, declining a prisoner exchange. Upholding white supremacy was the reason for the Confederacy’s existence, and therefore too precious a goal to abandon. Above all else, the Trump administration wants to send the message that immigrants, especially those of African or Latin American descent, are not welcome in the United States, and as far as detention facilities are concerned, incompetence or indifference will serve that cause as faithfully as malice.
...The Trump administration could make it easier for migrants who do not pose a threat to public safety to be released pending deportation hearings, for which the overwhelming majority of undocumented immigrants show up, despite the president’s insistence otherwise. That would relieve the pressure on overstressed detention facilities. But it would also be insufficiently cruel, and therefore weak. And the cruelty is the point.
How could this be? To understand the Trump administration’s approach, consider his brain trust. Though the president himself is from Queens, New York, as Jane Coaston has written, the ideological engine of his administration is rooted in California, once the Reagan heartland, now a conservative wasteland. Trump advisers such as Stephen Miller are convinced that they lost California not through persuasion, but through demographics—that an influx of Latinos forever doomed conservatism. Cruelty toward migrants, even children, is justified as necessary to preserve the republic against what these advisers see as a foreign invasion. That Trump’s own home borough, once the home of Archie Bunker, is now one of the most diverse areas in the country likely only increases the resonance of this argument for the president.
On Fox News, which exercises unparalleled influence over Trump, conservative pundits warn that they will “lose the country” because of a “demographic shift” driven by Latino immigration, echoing warnings of “race suicide” from a century ago. Presenting Latino immigration as an existential threat allows both the president and his supporters to justify anything they might choose to do in response.
Yet this is not an inevitability, but a choice—conservatives in California made a political decision to demonize immigrants and paid the price. In Texas, where the GOP once charted a more moderate path, the party’s dominance was unchallenged until recently. Demographics are not destiny, unless you make them so. A conservatism that appeals almost exclusively to white people, and views nonwhites as an existential threat, is not worth fighting for.
The argument over whether or not these facilities amount to concentration camps is almost beside the point. The semantic dispute obscures the true conflict, over whether the Trump administration’s treatment of migrants amounts to a historic crime, whether future generations will wonder how those involved could possibly have gone along with it, whether there will one day be memorials erected to commemorate it, whether historians write solemn books about it, whether those looking back will vow never to repeat it.
These facilities are just such a crime, by whatever name you choose to call them.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-facilities/593239/
109John5918
Just a few recent articles about the stance the Catholic Church in the USA is taking on immigration, all from the National Catholic Reporter. Catholics reportedly make up just over 20% of the US population.
Who is our neighbor? Anyone who is in need
I became aware just a week or so ago, through a friend, of a person who was near the border of our country on our side bringing water and food to people who had crossed over and had become lost in the desert and were dying.
He was arrested and put on trial because it was a crime to give water to a dying person, according to our law. How can that be? He, in fact, went to trial twice, but the jurors were decent enough people who refused to convict him of any crime. He was reaching out to save a fellow human being. That's not a crime; that's an act of love...
Washington state bishops call for 'comprehensive immigration reform'
Washington's bishops have issued a call for "comprehensive immigration reform that honors the dignity of those seeking a better life in the United States, while also addressing the legitimate need for safe and secure borders"...
U.S. bishops join pope reacting to photos of drowned migrant father, child
"This image cries to heaven for justice. This image silences politics. Who can look on this picture and not see the results of the failures of all of us to find a humane and just solution to the immigration crisis?"...
As US immigration policy changes, so does work of Catholic agencies
Immigration policies rolled out during the Trump administration have spread fear among immigrant populations in the U.S., but Catholic organizations and parishes have responded with renewed efforts focused on helping those groups...
Who is our neighbor? Anyone who is in need
I became aware just a week or so ago, through a friend, of a person who was near the border of our country on our side bringing water and food to people who had crossed over and had become lost in the desert and were dying.
He was arrested and put on trial because it was a crime to give water to a dying person, according to our law. How can that be? He, in fact, went to trial twice, but the jurors were decent enough people who refused to convict him of any crime. He was reaching out to save a fellow human being. That's not a crime; that's an act of love...
Washington state bishops call for 'comprehensive immigration reform'
Washington's bishops have issued a call for "comprehensive immigration reform that honors the dignity of those seeking a better life in the United States, while also addressing the legitimate need for safe and secure borders"...
U.S. bishops join pope reacting to photos of drowned migrant father, child
"This image cries to heaven for justice. This image silences politics. Who can look on this picture and not see the results of the failures of all of us to find a humane and just solution to the immigration crisis?"...
As US immigration policy changes, so does work of Catholic agencies
Immigration policies rolled out during the Trump administration have spread fear among immigrant populations in the U.S., but Catholic organizations and parishes have responded with renewed efforts focused on helping those groups...
110margd
After letter from former undocumented employees, Trump feigns ignorance
Casey Michel | Jul 6, 2019
...“I don’t know because I don’t run it,” Trump said when asked about the immigration status of workers at his golf resorts. “But I would say this: Probably every club in the United States has that because it seems to be — from what I understand — a way that people did business.”
...Trump Organization...fired nearly two dozen undocumented employees from golf courses in both New York and New Jersey. (The Trump Organization also announced it would now be using E-Verify, a governmental system providing information on employees’ legal status.)
...In a two-page letter* addressed directly to Trump, some 21 former employees — all of whom are undocumented — called on the president to meet with them directly to discuss their situation.
...The signatories received a letter from the White House on Wednesday, noting that they were “reviewing” the letter.
...“We believe you have a heart and will do the right thing to find a home for us here in America,” (former Trump employees) wrote in their letter, “so that we can step out of the shadows and not deport us and our friends and family.”...
https://thinkprogress.org/after-letter-from-former-undocumented-employees-trump-...
* https://www.scribd.com/document/415992686/Letter-From-Undocumented-Former-Trump-...
Casey Michel | Jul 6, 2019
...“I don’t know because I don’t run it,” Trump said when asked about the immigration status of workers at his golf resorts. “But I would say this: Probably every club in the United States has that because it seems to be — from what I understand — a way that people did business.”
...Trump Organization...fired nearly two dozen undocumented employees from golf courses in both New York and New Jersey. (The Trump Organization also announced it would now be using E-Verify, a governmental system providing information on employees’ legal status.)
...In a two-page letter* addressed directly to Trump, some 21 former employees — all of whom are undocumented — called on the president to meet with them directly to discuss their situation.
...The signatories received a letter from the White House on Wednesday, noting that they were “reviewing” the letter.
...“We believe you have a heart and will do the right thing to find a home for us here in America,” (former Trump employees) wrote in their letter, “so that we can step out of the shadows and not deport us and our friends and family.”...
https://thinkprogress.org/after-letter-from-former-undocumented-employees-trump-...
* https://www.scribd.com/document/415992686/Letter-From-Undocumented-Former-Trump-...
111StormRaven
If you're so keen on exporting violent criminals, why not deport all US citizens who commit violent crimes?
Because "deporting violent criminals" is just a pretext to cover his racism.
Because "deporting violent criminals" is just a pretext to cover his racism.
112John5918
What's the state of illegal immigration in US? (BBC)
Some statistics which appear to challenge the dominant rightwing narrative.
Analysing US census data from 1990 until 2017, Pew reported a decline in the overall undocumented immigrant population within the US. After a high of 12.2 million undocumented immigrants in 2007, the totals for 2017 dipped by nearly two million...
And reports by the Department of Homeland Security note that most undocumented immigrants do not cross the US border illegally, but rather overstay their visas. In 2017, Canadians overstaying their visa made up the largest group of these migrants, followed by Mexicans...
Better crack down quickly on those illegal Canadians!
Some statistics which appear to challenge the dominant rightwing narrative.
Analysing US census data from 1990 until 2017, Pew reported a decline in the overall undocumented immigrant population within the US. After a high of 12.2 million undocumented immigrants in 2007, the totals for 2017 dipped by nearly two million...
And reports by the Department of Homeland Security note that most undocumented immigrants do not cross the US border illegally, but rather overstay their visas. In 2017, Canadians overstaying their visa made up the largest group of these migrants, followed by Mexicans...
Better crack down quickly on those illegal Canadians!
113John5918
Migrant shelters suffer harassment as Mexico toughens enforcement
The Franciscan-run migrant shelter La 72 has welcomed a steady stream of migrants since opening its doors in 2011 in this railway terminus near the Guatemalan border.
It has also endured a steady stream of harassment — from politicians and police officers, immigration officials and even organized crime — as it tended to people fleeing poverty and violence in Central America.
But the latest indignity inflicted on the shelter stunned the staff: insinuations of money laundering, an odd activity for the project of a religious order renowned for its vows of poverty...
Our children are dying at the border. Bishops, where are you?
People showing up at the border are not vacationing. They are frantic and out of alternatives. This is survival, not opportunism.
It is futile to attempt to argue with, much less expect something better, from an administration that has justified separating families and caging children in deplorable conditions — unsanitary, without proper food and crowded to cruel proportions...
Cuccinelli said that the drowning was the fault of the father, who should have observed the rules regarding asylum. Notwithstanding that the claim is absurd, and disgusting, on its face, the fact is that even if the anguished father had kept up with the news and the law on the dangerous and difficult trek northward, one might have excused him for becoming confused. The Trump administration plays daily games, at times, shifting the rules. The basic fact is that anyone can seek asylum anywhere along the border. It is not illegal.
It is, however, cruel to contemplate rule changes, as is currently underway in this administration, that would essentially eliminate asylum for Central Americans...
It's not complicated. The mass of people arriving at our border are mostly escaping desperate and dangerous circumstances, trying to protect their children — our children. Our government is brutalizing them — men, women and children — under the cover of manipulated law and a narrative that raises unjustifiable fear and prejudice.
Bishops, where are you?
Both from National Catholic Reporter (a US newspaper).
The Franciscan-run migrant shelter La 72 has welcomed a steady stream of migrants since opening its doors in 2011 in this railway terminus near the Guatemalan border.
It has also endured a steady stream of harassment — from politicians and police officers, immigration officials and even organized crime — as it tended to people fleeing poverty and violence in Central America.
But the latest indignity inflicted on the shelter stunned the staff: insinuations of money laundering, an odd activity for the project of a religious order renowned for its vows of poverty...
Our children are dying at the border. Bishops, where are you?
People showing up at the border are not vacationing. They are frantic and out of alternatives. This is survival, not opportunism.
It is futile to attempt to argue with, much less expect something better, from an administration that has justified separating families and caging children in deplorable conditions — unsanitary, without proper food and crowded to cruel proportions...
Cuccinelli said that the drowning was the fault of the father, who should have observed the rules regarding asylum. Notwithstanding that the claim is absurd, and disgusting, on its face, the fact is that even if the anguished father had kept up with the news and the law on the dangerous and difficult trek northward, one might have excused him for becoming confused. The Trump administration plays daily games, at times, shifting the rules. The basic fact is that anyone can seek asylum anywhere along the border. It is not illegal.
It is, however, cruel to contemplate rule changes, as is currently underway in this administration, that would essentially eliminate asylum for Central Americans...
It's not complicated. The mass of people arriving at our border are mostly escaping desperate and dangerous circumstances, trying to protect their children — our children. Our government is brutalizing them — men, women and children — under the cover of manipulated law and a narrative that raises unjustifiable fear and prejudice.
Bishops, where are you?
Both from National Catholic Reporter (a US newspaper).
116John5918
>115 2wonderY:
BUt the UN has issued some comments, eg:
US must abide by humanitarian refugee accords: UN refugee agency (UN News)
Central American migrants must be protected, urge UN experts (UN News)
U.S. should stop detaining migrants, separating children: U.N. (Reuters)
UN expert requests full investigation of migrant girl’s death in the US, urges end to migration detention of children (OHCHR)
BUt the UN has issued some comments, eg:
US must abide by humanitarian refugee accords: UN refugee agency (UN News)
Central American migrants must be protected, urge UN experts (UN News)
U.S. should stop detaining migrants, separating children: U.N. (Reuters)
UN expert requests full investigation of migrant girl’s death in the US, urges end to migration detention of children (OHCHR)
118TrippB
>111 StormRaven:
”Because "deporting violent criminals" is just a pretext to cover his racism.”
I wasn’t going to waste any more time with you, but I can’t let this nonsense go unchallenged. Every aspect of my position has been, and is, based on zero tolerance for crime. Nothing has pertained to race, as race has nothing to do with my opinions. All races comprise our violent illegal alien population, and I welcome none who prey on innocent Americans.
The fact that you misinterpret my comments on criminals to be about race says much more about your prejudices than mine. Or, perhaps you’re merely resorting to the usual Democrat tactic that says when you have nothing else, throw out a few baseless accusations of racism or homophobia. That may be more likely.
”Because "deporting violent criminals" is just a pretext to cover his racism.”
I wasn’t going to waste any more time with you, but I can’t let this nonsense go unchallenged. Every aspect of my position has been, and is, based on zero tolerance for crime. Nothing has pertained to race, as race has nothing to do with my opinions. All races comprise our violent illegal alien population, and I welcome none who prey on innocent Americans.
The fact that you misinterpret my comments on criminals to be about race says much more about your prejudices than mine. Or, perhaps you’re merely resorting to the usual Democrat tactic that says when you have nothing else, throw out a few baseless accusations of racism or homophobia. That may be more likely.
119jjwilson61
I think the comment is justified since you only seem to be concerned about crimes committed by certain racial groups.
120TrippB
Prove it. I know, and you know, you can't prove that, based on anything I've ever thought, or stated, here or anywhere, because it a baseless attempt to discredit my calls to protect the U.S. from illegal alien criminals.
121John5918
>118 TrippB: All races comprise our violent illegal alien population
You don't have a "violent illegal alien population". You have a largely peaceful and law-abiding alien population of which a tiny percentage may commit violent crimes, equivalent to or less than the percentage of the total population.
You don't have a "violent illegal alien population". You have a largely peaceful and law-abiding alien population of which a tiny percentage may commit violent crimes, equivalent to or less than the percentage of the total population.
122John5918
I was persecuted in Sudan for being a Christian, but America welcomed me (Daily Herald)
It is important for Americans to know that most refugees did not choose this path. We never wanted to leave our homes, our families, our friends, our schools or our work. We came because our lives were at stake, and we had nowhere else to go. We also know that we may never truly be considered Americans. Even if you live somewhere for twenty or fifty years, you will always be from the place where you are born. As an African, part of me will always belong to my hometown. I can say I am from Chicagoland, but I do not fully belong to Chicago.
My children, however, will have a different experience. They are Americans. They tell people they are from Wheaton, Illinois, and they will have the right to say that. Because they belong to America, everything I went through will be worth it. I am proud of what their lives can be...
I'm grateful to the United States for receiving me. My prayer is that this country would once again be a beacon of safety and religious freedom for refugees, who have been forced to flee.
An experience from the early 2000s...
It is important for Americans to know that most refugees did not choose this path. We never wanted to leave our homes, our families, our friends, our schools or our work. We came because our lives were at stake, and we had nowhere else to go. We also know that we may never truly be considered Americans. Even if you live somewhere for twenty or fifty years, you will always be from the place where you are born. As an African, part of me will always belong to my hometown. I can say I am from Chicagoland, but I do not fully belong to Chicago.
My children, however, will have a different experience. They are Americans. They tell people they are from Wheaton, Illinois, and they will have the right to say that. Because they belong to America, everything I went through will be worth it. I am proud of what their lives can be...
I'm grateful to the United States for receiving me. My prayer is that this country would once again be a beacon of safety and religious freedom for refugees, who have been forced to flee.
An experience from the early 2000s...
123John5918
Immigration agency secretly searches millions of Americans' ID photos (Guardian)
US immigration authorities have accessed driver’s licenses databases across the country, searching millions of people’s photos without their knowledge...
US immigration authorities have accessed driver’s licenses databases across the country, searching millions of people’s photos without their knowledge...
124StormRaven
Every aspect of my position has been, and is, based on zero tolerance for crime. Nothing has pertained to race, as race has nothing to do with my opinions.
The simple fact is that your "concern" over crime committed by immigrants is just a pretense to provide cover for your racism. You are merely following in the well-worn footprints of white supremacist agitators through all of U.S. history. The rhetoric and language you have been using is the exact same rhetoric and language used in the nineteenth century by nativist xenophobes screaming about how the Irish, Italians, Jews, and other immigrant groups were all criminals. It is the same rhetoric and language used in the twentieth century by racist xenophobes screaming about how Japanese and Chinese immigrants were violent. It is the same thinking that led to Sacco and Vanzetti getting railroaded, that was used to justify the Chinese Exclusion Act, that was used to justify the Japanese internment camps. Not coincidentally, it is the same language and rhetoric used to justify Jim Crow laws, which were frequently justified as being anti-crime measures.
Every time that racist xenophobes have wanted a cloak to obscure their racism, they have fallen back to the "I'm just concerned about crime" line. That's you. You're following in a long line of other racist xenophobes, but it is an act that has been tried often enough that it is readily apparent when guys like you try to use it.
The simple fact is that your "concern" over crime committed by immigrants is just a pretense to provide cover for your racism. You are merely following in the well-worn footprints of white supremacist agitators through all of U.S. history. The rhetoric and language you have been using is the exact same rhetoric and language used in the nineteenth century by nativist xenophobes screaming about how the Irish, Italians, Jews, and other immigrant groups were all criminals. It is the same rhetoric and language used in the twentieth century by racist xenophobes screaming about how Japanese and Chinese immigrants were violent. It is the same thinking that led to Sacco and Vanzetti getting railroaded, that was used to justify the Chinese Exclusion Act, that was used to justify the Japanese internment camps. Not coincidentally, it is the same language and rhetoric used to justify Jim Crow laws, which were frequently justified as being anti-crime measures.
Every time that racist xenophobes have wanted a cloak to obscure their racism, they have fallen back to the "I'm just concerned about crime" line. That's you. You're following in a long line of other racist xenophobes, but it is an act that has been tried often enough that it is readily apparent when guys like you try to use it.
125John5918
TrippB, I think what >124 StormRaven: is saying is akin to what I meant when, in >80 John5918:, I said, "I do not believe you are deliberately lying (although I do believe you are wittingly or unwittingly buying into a narrative which is based on lies)". However innocently you might be stating the case as you see it, you are using a narrative which has a history, a lot of baggage, and a lot of lies and/or misrepresentations and/or propaganda as an integral part of it. And although you may disassociate yourself from the ideologues who are currently pushing this narrative, you are using their narrative. By doing so, unfortunately but inevitably, people will associate you with them, and with their racist and xenophobic agenda, and with the lies inherent in that narrative, whether you like it or not.
126John5918
Pope Francis: Migrants are people, not just a social issue (Catholic Herald)
Pope Francis called Monday for an end to the rhetoric which views migrants as something ‘other,’ saying they are human beings...
“They are persons; these are not mere social or migrant issues!” he said on July 8. “‘This is not just about migrants,’ in the twofold sense that migrants are first of all human persons, and that they are the symbol of all those rejected by today’s globalized society”...
“These least ones are abandoned and cheated into dying in the desert; these least ones are tortured, abused and violated in detention camps; these least ones face the waves of an unforgiving sea; these least ones are left in reception camps too long for them to be called temporary”...
Francis goes on to speak in language which should move anybody who claims to be Christian, but what I have quoted is the humanitarian language which should resonate with people of all religions and none. Migrants are human beings, just like you and me.
Pope Francis called Monday for an end to the rhetoric which views migrants as something ‘other,’ saying they are human beings...
“They are persons; these are not mere social or migrant issues!” he said on July 8. “‘This is not just about migrants,’ in the twofold sense that migrants are first of all human persons, and that they are the symbol of all those rejected by today’s globalized society”...
“These least ones are abandoned and cheated into dying in the desert; these least ones are tortured, abused and violated in detention camps; these least ones face the waves of an unforgiving sea; these least ones are left in reception camps too long for them to be called temporary”...
Francis goes on to speak in language which should move anybody who claims to be Christian, but what I have quoted is the humanitarian language which should resonate with people of all religions and none. Migrants are human beings, just like you and me.
127John5918
Mother whose toddler died after Ice detention speaks out in emotional testimony (Guardian)
The House hearing comes as reports of harrowing conditions at border detention facilities have sparked a national outcry
The House hearing comes as reports of harrowing conditions at border detention facilities have sparked a national outcry
128TrippB
>125 John5918:
”I think what >124 StormRaven: StormRaven: is saying is…”
I recognize quite clearly what he’s trying to say. He’s proclaiming that, In the absence of anything else, he’s falling back on the liberal strategy of throwing out baseless accusations of racism. It’s quite trendy these days. The racist label is used to cover just about any issue—even if it’s petty or irrelevant.
There is no credibility in his attempt to say that anyone in favor of basic and reasonable immigration control is a xenophobic racist. It’s a ludicrous argument.
”…you are using a narrative which has a history, a lot of baggage, and a lot of lies and/or misrepresentations and/or propaganda as an integral part of it.”
Your perspective is likely much more sincere than many in the U.S. From your international personal experience, I believe you, and I fully recognize how fear can be use to manipulate. I also know my position is not based on manipulation—it’s based on demonstrated realities and personal experience. I’m also nothing remotely close to xenophobic. I welcome good immigrants of all races, and think that’s the predominant opinion in the U.S.—one out of seven people in the U.S. are immigrants, and most have come in legally. I’ve been an immigrant, even if for just a few years, and I greatly appreciate how good immigrants have added value to my life.
In terms of history, let’s go there for the information pertinent to > 124 that was conveniently omitted. He tried to avoid political affiliations, but with racist xenophobes, that’s impossible. Democrats were the founders of the Ku Klux Klan. Democrats were the party that defended slavery. Democrats were the authors and staunch defenders of Jim Crow laws. The vote for the Chinese Exclusion Act was dominated by Democrats who voted in favor (House: 69 R / 202 D; Senate: 9 R / 22 D,, with a lot of cowards abstaining). A Democrat president signed the executive order that established Japanese internment camps. At least one known Democrat KKK member served in Congress until less than a decade ago. No wonder he carefully avoided political parties in his diatribe.
Using the poor reasoning he so vehemently demonstrated {I just can’t call it logic), I could proclaim that everyone who supports Democrats are pro-KKK, pro-slavery, and pro-‘Jim Crow’ and internment camp denials of civil rights. But that would be wrong, and my sense of basic human decency prevents me from painting all Democrat supporters with so wide a brush. Individual positions on issues aren’t always so easily pigeon-holed into convenient categories. Unfortunately, some people apparently aren’t capable of thinking that broadly. Or, more likely, they know the truth, but they’re merely promoting an agenda rather than a logical position.
”I think what >124 StormRaven: StormRaven: is saying is…”
I recognize quite clearly what he’s trying to say. He’s proclaiming that, In the absence of anything else, he’s falling back on the liberal strategy of throwing out baseless accusations of racism. It’s quite trendy these days. The racist label is used to cover just about any issue—even if it’s petty or irrelevant.
There is no credibility in his attempt to say that anyone in favor of basic and reasonable immigration control is a xenophobic racist. It’s a ludicrous argument.
”…you are using a narrative which has a history, a lot of baggage, and a lot of lies and/or misrepresentations and/or propaganda as an integral part of it.”
Your perspective is likely much more sincere than many in the U.S. From your international personal experience, I believe you, and I fully recognize how fear can be use to manipulate. I also know my position is not based on manipulation—it’s based on demonstrated realities and personal experience. I’m also nothing remotely close to xenophobic. I welcome good immigrants of all races, and think that’s the predominant opinion in the U.S.—one out of seven people in the U.S. are immigrants, and most have come in legally. I’ve been an immigrant, even if for just a few years, and I greatly appreciate how good immigrants have added value to my life.
In terms of history, let’s go there for the information pertinent to > 124 that was conveniently omitted. He tried to avoid political affiliations, but with racist xenophobes, that’s impossible. Democrats were the founders of the Ku Klux Klan. Democrats were the party that defended slavery. Democrats were the authors and staunch defenders of Jim Crow laws. The vote for the Chinese Exclusion Act was dominated by Democrats who voted in favor (House: 69 R / 202 D; Senate: 9 R / 22 D,, with a lot of cowards abstaining). A Democrat president signed the executive order that established Japanese internment camps. At least one known Democrat KKK member served in Congress until less than a decade ago. No wonder he carefully avoided political parties in his diatribe.
Using the poor reasoning he so vehemently demonstrated {I just can’t call it logic), I could proclaim that everyone who supports Democrats are pro-KKK, pro-slavery, and pro-‘Jim Crow’ and internment camp denials of civil rights. But that would be wrong, and my sense of basic human decency prevents me from painting all Democrat supporters with so wide a brush. Individual positions on issues aren’t always so easily pigeon-holed into convenient categories. Unfortunately, some people apparently aren’t capable of thinking that broadly. Or, more likely, they know the truth, but they’re merely promoting an agenda rather than a logical position.
129proximity1
>124 StormRaven:
"The simple fact is that your "concern" over crime committed by immigrants is just a pretense to provide cover for your racism." ...
_______________________________
Meanwhile, people who spout such asinine stuff as the above don't even bother to offer a pretense for their own blatant racism:
VIZ : all illegal aliens must be allowed free and unimpeded entry to the U.S. especially if their skin isn't "white"-looking!--otherwise, one is necessarily a racist for opposing that.
"Liberal-guilt" -- it's so large that "liberals" are going to need you to bear a very generous portion of it for them.
Yeah, right. FUCK THAT.
2020 Trump re-elected. For good cause.
"The simple fact is that your "concern" over crime committed by (ILLEGAL) immigrants is just a pretense to provide cover for your racism." ...
("fixed it for you"!)
130margd
9th Circuit rules in favor of Trump admin in 'sanctuary city' case
Tal Axelrod - 07/12/19
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday...ruling, a split 2-1 decision, said the Department of Justice (DOJ) was within its rights to withhold Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) grants from sanctuary cities and states over their refusal to work with federal immigration enforcement authorities and instead prioritize agencies that focused on unauthorized immigration and agreed to give Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) access to jail records and immigrants in custody.
The city of Los Angeles first sued the administration after it was denied a $3 million grant on the grounds that it did not receive the money because it did not focus on immigration for its community policing grant application. The decision reversed a district court’s ruling.
“The panel rejected Los Angeles’s argument that DOJ’s practice of giving additional consideration to applicants that choose to further the two specified federal goals violated the Constitution’s Spending Clause,” wrote Judge Sandra Ikuta, joined by Judge Jay Bybee.
“The panel held that DOJ did not exceed its statutory authority in awarding bonus points to applicants that selected the illegal immigration focus area or that agreed to the Certification,” she wrote.
Judge Kim Wardlaw wrote in dissent that the Justice Department’s efforts to prioritize immigration in determining the awarding of COPS grants was “Orwellian” and said the majority’s ruling goes “astray.”
“The majority goes astray by finding no meaning in Congress’s use of the term ‘community-oriented policing’ and then deferring under Chevron to DOJ’s Orwellian effort to define ‘community-oriented policing’ to include 'partnering with federal law enforcement to address illegal immigration,' ” she wrote.
“Congress did not authorize COPS grants for anything other than placing additional state and local cops on the beat and promote community partnerships,” she wrote.
Congress created the fund in 1994...It allowed the Justice Department to administer the funds...
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/452862-9th-circuit-rules-in-favor-o...
Tal Axelrod - 07/12/19
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday...ruling, a split 2-1 decision, said the Department of Justice (DOJ) was within its rights to withhold Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) grants from sanctuary cities and states over their refusal to work with federal immigration enforcement authorities and instead prioritize agencies that focused on unauthorized immigration and agreed to give Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) access to jail records and immigrants in custody.
The city of Los Angeles first sued the administration after it was denied a $3 million grant on the grounds that it did not receive the money because it did not focus on immigration for its community policing grant application. The decision reversed a district court’s ruling.
“The panel rejected Los Angeles’s argument that DOJ’s practice of giving additional consideration to applicants that choose to further the two specified federal goals violated the Constitution’s Spending Clause,” wrote Judge Sandra Ikuta, joined by Judge Jay Bybee.
“The panel held that DOJ did not exceed its statutory authority in awarding bonus points to applicants that selected the illegal immigration focus area or that agreed to the Certification,” she wrote.
Judge Kim Wardlaw wrote in dissent that the Justice Department’s efforts to prioritize immigration in determining the awarding of COPS grants was “Orwellian” and said the majority’s ruling goes “astray.”
“The majority goes astray by finding no meaning in Congress’s use of the term ‘community-oriented policing’ and then deferring under Chevron to DOJ’s Orwellian effort to define ‘community-oriented policing’ to include 'partnering with federal law enforcement to address illegal immigration,' ” she wrote.
“Congress did not authorize COPS grants for anything other than placing additional state and local cops on the beat and promote community partnerships,” she wrote.
Congress created the fund in 1994...It allowed the Justice Department to administer the funds...
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/452862-9th-circuit-rules-in-favor-o...
131StormRaven
all illegal aliens must be allowed free and unimpeded entry to the U.S. especially if their skin isn't "white"-looking!--otherwise, one is necessarily a racist for opposing that.
Literally no one has said that, so as usual, you are lying.
But that's not surprising proximity. Lying is all you ever do.
Literally no one has said that, so as usual, you are lying.
But that's not surprising proximity. Lying is all you ever do.
132RickHarsch
>131 StormRaven: referencing StormRaven's lie on the 2020 thread accusing me of engaging in 'conspiracy theories'.
133proximity1
>131 StormRaven:
LOL!
... "Literally no one has said that"...
Right--that's actually my point: literally-speaking, "no one" (sort of) has said that; in fact, since you probably aren't actually fucking omnicient, you really don't know your assertion is true. Statistically, your claim is almost certainly false; somewhere, sometime, it's practically certain that someone has said this--"off-mic", in an unguarded moment. But that is not the point here.
The point is what your comment is designed to evade and distract from: these people genuinely intend and mean that there's virtually never any place for the deliberate interdiction of people's efforts to illegally enter a country other than their own native land--never mind these people's race, religion, skin-color, national origin, etc. That, though (of course) it's not avowed, not stated literally, is in fact what is meant.
(By the way, let's get this aspect straight: genuine asylum-seekers who are fleeing danger, who are in immediate and direct danger unless they flee their home country, these people are not legally qualified to be called "illegal aliens"--they're asylum-seekers, in flight out fear for their lives and safety and those fears are well-founded. Again, we are not concerned here with this kind of case.)
To claim otherwise is the real lie.
That's your problem.
LOL!
... "Literally no one has said that"...
Right--that's actually my point: literally-speaking, "no one" (sort of) has said that; in fact, since you probably aren't actually fucking omnicient, you really don't know your assertion is true. Statistically, your claim is almost certainly false; somewhere, sometime, it's practically certain that someone has said this--"off-mic", in an unguarded moment. But that is not the point here.
The point is what your comment is designed to evade and distract from: these people genuinely intend and mean that there's virtually never any place for the deliberate interdiction of people's efforts to illegally enter a country other than their own native land--never mind these people's race, religion, skin-color, national origin, etc. That, though (of course) it's not avowed, not stated literally, is in fact what is meant.
(By the way, let's get this aspect straight: genuine asylum-seekers who are fleeing danger, who are in immediate and direct danger unless they flee their home country, these people are not legally qualified to be called "illegal aliens"--they're asylum-seekers, in flight out fear for their lives and safety and those fears are well-founded. Again, we are not concerned here with this kind of case.)
To claim otherwise is the real lie.
That's your problem.
134StormRaven
In the absence of anything else, he’s falling back on the liberal strategy of throwing out baseless accusations of racism.
This is the plaintive cry of literally every racist who is called out on his racism. By whining in this vein, you're just confirming that you are, in fact, making racist arguments.
I also know my position is not based on manipulation—it’s based on demonstrated realities and personal experience.
"My racism is justified" is the rallying cry of racists everywhere. This response from you was entirely predictable. It also confirms that you are following along in the footsteps of a long line of racists.
I’m also nothing remotely close to xenophobic.
Your xenophobia literally drips from every post you make.
I welcome good immigrants of all races
Talking about the "good" members of groups is a line of rhetoric only a racist would use.
In terms of history, let’s go there for the information pertinent to > 124 that was conveniently omitted. He tried to avoid political affiliations, but with racist xenophobes, that’s impossible. Democrats were the founders of the Ku Klux Klan. Democrats were the party that defended slavery. Democrats were the authors and staunch defenders of Jim Crow laws. The vote for the Chinese Exclusion Act was dominated by Democrats who voted in favor (House: 69 R / 202 D; Senate: 9 R / 22 D,, with a lot of cowards abstaining).
"Democrats has a lot of racists in the party a hundred years ago" is not really the killer argument you seem to think it is. In fact, it is one of the go to arguments for racist conservatives now. What your "analysis" (if what you are doing can be called that) is ignoring the fact that during the time periods you are referring to, the Democratic party was mostly conservative, and based in the South. Unless you are going to try to claim that the Democrats are now the true conservatives, your attempted evasions don't carry much weight.
One could also point out that in the early part of the twentieth century, the Republican party was also dominated by the KKK, because American politics as a whole were dominated by racists. The only difference is that the Democratic party has tried to shed that, while the Republican party seems to be embracing racism as a core value of the party.
At this point, you're just making by the numbers racist arguments. Every post you make just confirms that you are comfortable lining up alongside racist xenophobes and parroting their arguments.
This is the plaintive cry of literally every racist who is called out on his racism. By whining in this vein, you're just confirming that you are, in fact, making racist arguments.
I also know my position is not based on manipulation—it’s based on demonstrated realities and personal experience.
"My racism is justified" is the rallying cry of racists everywhere. This response from you was entirely predictable. It also confirms that you are following along in the footsteps of a long line of racists.
I’m also nothing remotely close to xenophobic.
Your xenophobia literally drips from every post you make.
I welcome good immigrants of all races
Talking about the "good" members of groups is a line of rhetoric only a racist would use.
In terms of history, let’s go there for the information pertinent to > 124 that was conveniently omitted. He tried to avoid political affiliations, but with racist xenophobes, that’s impossible. Democrats were the founders of the Ku Klux Klan. Democrats were the party that defended slavery. Democrats were the authors and staunch defenders of Jim Crow laws. The vote for the Chinese Exclusion Act was dominated by Democrats who voted in favor (House: 69 R / 202 D; Senate: 9 R / 22 D,, with a lot of cowards abstaining).
"Democrats has a lot of racists in the party a hundred years ago" is not really the killer argument you seem to think it is. In fact, it is one of the go to arguments for racist conservatives now. What your "analysis" (if what you are doing can be called that) is ignoring the fact that during the time periods you are referring to, the Democratic party was mostly conservative, and based in the South. Unless you are going to try to claim that the Democrats are now the true conservatives, your attempted evasions don't carry much weight.
One could also point out that in the early part of the twentieth century, the Republican party was also dominated by the KKK, because American politics as a whole were dominated by racists. The only difference is that the Democratic party has tried to shed that, while the Republican party seems to be embracing racism as a core value of the party.
At this point, you're just making by the numbers racist arguments. Every post you make just confirms that you are comfortable lining up alongside racist xenophobes and parroting their arguments.
135StormRaven
133: As usual, you have all the insight of a racist drunk unemployed homeless man screaming on a street corner.
Adding more lies to your previous lies doesn't actually make them anything but lies.
Not only is no one saying what you claim they are saying, no one is intending what you claim they are intending.
Once again, all you have are lies. It is your stock in trade.
Adding more lies to your previous lies doesn't actually make them anything but lies.
Not only is no one saying what you claim they are saying, no one is intending what you claim they are intending.
Once again, all you have are lies. It is your stock in trade.
136RickHarsch
Let's clean things up a little here:
>135 StormRaven: "you have all the insight of a racist drunk unemployed homeless man screaming on a street corner."
I've been around, but I have never seen an employed homeless man screaming at a street corner. I'm sure it happens.
>133 proximity1: It's OMNISCIENT, with that sc combination we see so often.
>135 StormRaven: "you have all the insight of a racist drunk unemployed homeless man screaming on a street corner."
I've been around, but I have never seen an employed homeless man screaming at a street corner. I'm sure it happens.
>133 proximity1: It's OMNISCIENT, with that sc combination we see so often.
1372wonderY
Citizens fear being without their papers.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fear-ice-raids-leads-some-u-s-citizens-carr...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fear-ice-raids-leads-some-u-s-citizens-carr...
138TrippB
>134 StormRaven:
”Your xenophobia literally drips from every post you make.”
I have no xenophobia, but I apparently have more Internet influence than I thought. Nice visual.
Your post is still nothing but a lot of words that come down to “You’re racist because I say your racist.” I keep thinking that someday you will add something useful to a discussion instead of feebly trying to insult people. At least you did a good job of parroting the recent “Anyone-who-opposes-open-borders-must be accused of racism” party line. Publicly accused racists Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden would approve.
”Your xenophobia literally drips from every post you make.”
I have no xenophobia, but I apparently have more Internet influence than I thought. Nice visual.
Your post is still nothing but a lot of words that come down to “You’re racist because I say your racist.” I keep thinking that someday you will add something useful to a discussion instead of feebly trying to insult people. At least you did a good job of parroting the recent “Anyone-who-opposes-open-borders-must be accused of racism” party line. Publicly accused racists Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden would approve.
139StormRaven
Your post is still nothing but a lot of words that come down to “You’re racist because I say your racist.”
I see reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
My posts say "You are racist because you are parroting two hundred years worth of racist xenophobic arguments, and then following that up with the same racist evasions they used when their racism was pointed out."
I see reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
My posts say "You are racist because you are parroting two hundred years worth of racist xenophobic arguments, and then following that up with the same racist evasions they used when their racism was pointed out."
140StormRaven
133: By the way, let's get this aspect straight: genuine asylum-seekers who are fleeing danger, who are in immediate and direct danger unless they flee their home country, these people are not legally qualified to be called "illegal aliens"--they're asylum-seekers, in flight out fear for their lives and safety and those fears are well-founded. Again, we are not concerned here with this kind of case.
This is, like most everything else you post, transparently a lie.
The people being detained are being detained prior to a determination of their status as asylum seekers. In other words, there has been no determination that they are not, in fact, genuine asylum seekers. If you actually were not concerned with that kind of case, you would be outraged over this administration's policy of detaining all such claimants in abysmal conditions. You would be outraged over this administration's child separation policy. You would be outraged over this administration's efforts to hamper the operation of the administrative law judges hearing the cases, and would be outraged over the policy of denying asylum seekers the right to counsel.
You would be outraged over these things because these policies would be affecting potential "genuine" asylum seekers, many whom are actually genuine asylum seekers. But you are not. And that fact tells me that your "lack of concern" over that sort of case is a lie. You care about those cases. The only conclusion one can draw from your indifference to their mistreatment is that you want them deterred as well. That you want them mistreated as well.
This is, like most everything else you post, transparently a lie.
The people being detained are being detained prior to a determination of their status as asylum seekers. In other words, there has been no determination that they are not, in fact, genuine asylum seekers. If you actually were not concerned with that kind of case, you would be outraged over this administration's policy of detaining all such claimants in abysmal conditions. You would be outraged over this administration's child separation policy. You would be outraged over this administration's efforts to hamper the operation of the administrative law judges hearing the cases, and would be outraged over the policy of denying asylum seekers the right to counsel.
You would be outraged over these things because these policies would be affecting potential "genuine" asylum seekers, many whom are actually genuine asylum seekers. But you are not. And that fact tells me that your "lack of concern" over that sort of case is a lie. You care about those cases. The only conclusion one can draw from your indifference to their mistreatment is that you want them deterred as well. That you want them mistreated as well.
141John5918
Why No One Is Discussing the Rise in Africans Migrants Piled at U.S.-Mexico Border (Atlanta Black Star)
Amongst other things, this article notes, "Primarily African developing nations take in 80 percent of the global refugee population, which strains these countries’ health care and water systems. Trump’s decision to cut aid to African nations, particularly those with large numbers of refugees, may exacerbate the world refugee crisis by fueling the conflicts that make migration necessary..."
Amongst other things, this article notes, "Primarily African developing nations take in 80 percent of the global refugee population, which strains these countries’ health care and water systems. Trump’s decision to cut aid to African nations, particularly those with large numbers of refugees, may exacerbate the world refugee crisis by fueling the conflicts that make migration necessary..."
143proximity1
>140 StormRaven:
..."the people being detained are being detained prior to a determination of their status as asylum seekers." ..."in abysmal conditions" ...
I agree that everyone, all suspects, all those arrested and held on suspicion of whatever the matter may be, including anyone held on suspicion of having illegally entered the country--that is, even suspected illegal immigrants--deserves humane treatment from the moment of his or her arrest. That's an important matter, of course, but it isn't the issue here.
Again, here, you hope to divert, distract and change the subject. The subject is: what is to be done about those about whom there is probable cause to believe that they have entered the country illegally or, later, have been determined to have illegally entered the country, once this determination has been made?
There's a general concerted effort to make into a taboo any effort toward the effective interdiction of anyone, especially any who aren't of a "white" skin-color, entering the country illegally and without any well-founded claim for an humanitarian asylum claim.
..."the people being detained are being detained prior to a determination of their status as asylum seekers." ..."in abysmal conditions" ...
I agree that everyone, all suspects, all those arrested and held on suspicion of whatever the matter may be, including anyone held on suspicion of having illegally entered the country--that is, even suspected illegal immigrants--deserves humane treatment from the moment of his or her arrest. That's an important matter, of course, but it isn't the issue here.
Again, here, you hope to divert, distract and change the subject. The subject is: what is to be done about those about whom there is probable cause to believe that they have entered the country illegally or, later, have been determined to have illegally entered the country, once this determination has been made?
There's a general concerted effort to make into a taboo any effort toward the effective interdiction of anyone, especially any who aren't of a "white" skin-color, entering the country illegally and without any well-founded claim for an humanitarian asylum claim.
144RickHarsch
>143 proximity1:
"I agree that everyone, all suspects, all those arrested and held on suspicion of whatever the matter may be, including anyone held on suspicion of having illegally entered the country--that is, even suspected illegal immigrants--deserve humane treatment from the moment of his or her arrest."
That's not a bad starting point for coming to agreement with someone about the immigration circumstance in the US. The rest of the post seems an effort to will the self towards oppostion of the self. Essentially, he asks what needs to be done. The obvious response to that is indeed, good question, what should be done? The scumfroth of the debate is the mutual accusations that commingle into a racial and historical topping, intricate and evanescent.
"I agree that everyone, all suspects, all those arrested and held on suspicion of whatever the matter may be, including anyone held on suspicion of having illegally entered the country--that is, even suspected illegal immigrants--deserve humane treatment from the moment of his or her arrest."
That's not a bad starting point for coming to agreement with someone about the immigration circumstance in the US. The rest of the post seems an effort to will the self towards oppostion of the self. Essentially, he asks what needs to be done. The obvious response to that is indeed, good question, what should be done? The scumfroth of the debate is the mutual accusations that commingle into a racial and historical topping, intricate and evanescent.
145StormRaven
But, again, here, you hope to divert, distract and change the subject. The subject is: what is to be done about those about whom there is probable cause to believe that they have entered the country illegally or, later, have been determined to have illegally enter the country, once this determination has been made?
No, in fact that isn't the subject. The current problem relates solely to those being held in pre-hearing detention. Previous administrations didn't feel the need to hold most of those who were seeking asylum, and about 90% of asylum seekers showed up for their hearings (even higher when they were given the right to counsel). Not only is there no rational reason from the administration's policies, they are probably counterproductive, spending money detaining individuals needlessly while shorting other areas where that money would be more effectively spent.
The larger issue - which Tripp decided to get into, of how easy it is to immigrate to the U.S. (the usual argument being that potential immigrants should "get in line" and wait their turn, notwithstanding the fact that U.S. immigration law has no process by which someone can "get in line"). The reality is that the U.S. already has incredibly stringent immigration laws, and excludes many people that the U.S. would be better off admitting.
One could also point out that until 1996, entering the country illegally wasn't even a misdemeanor, and the U.S. seemed to do just fine then. One could also point out that every argument that has been advanced through U.S. history about how immigration needed to be limited has been racist in nature - whether the exclusion was aimed at Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, Slavic immigrants, Jewish immigrants, Chinese immigrants, Japanese immigrants, or some other group.
Economic migrants do the U.S. no harm, and in fact are often a benefit. The farm industry and the food processing industry rely upon migrant labor, and that is simply not going to change. Every time there has been a crackdown on immigration, two things have happened: The number of illegal immigrants in the country has gone up, and farms have found themselves unable to harvest their crops. I'm not seeing how either of those situations are particularly beneficial.
No, in fact that isn't the subject. The current problem relates solely to those being held in pre-hearing detention. Previous administrations didn't feel the need to hold most of those who were seeking asylum, and about 90% of asylum seekers showed up for their hearings (even higher when they were given the right to counsel). Not only is there no rational reason from the administration's policies, they are probably counterproductive, spending money detaining individuals needlessly while shorting other areas where that money would be more effectively spent.
The larger issue - which Tripp decided to get into, of how easy it is to immigrate to the U.S. (the usual argument being that potential immigrants should "get in line" and wait their turn, notwithstanding the fact that U.S. immigration law has no process by which someone can "get in line"). The reality is that the U.S. already has incredibly stringent immigration laws, and excludes many people that the U.S. would be better off admitting.
One could also point out that until 1996, entering the country illegally wasn't even a misdemeanor, and the U.S. seemed to do just fine then. One could also point out that every argument that has been advanced through U.S. history about how immigration needed to be limited has been racist in nature - whether the exclusion was aimed at Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, Slavic immigrants, Jewish immigrants, Chinese immigrants, Japanese immigrants, or some other group.
Economic migrants do the U.S. no harm, and in fact are often a benefit. The farm industry and the food processing industry rely upon migrant labor, and that is simply not going to change. Every time there has been a crackdown on immigration, two things have happened: The number of illegal immigrants in the country has gone up, and farms have found themselves unable to harvest their crops. I'm not seeing how either of those situations are particularly beneficial.
146proximity1
>145 StormRaven:
... "and the U.S. seemed to do just fine then" ...
LOL!
Oh, right. Of course they did! And, that reminds me: take a poll of the multi-billionaires. They'll tell you earnestly that, a few things here and there aside, the system is working well and many are prospering by it.
"How would you describe the state of affairs from the point of view of economic justice and fairness in the country and the responsiveness of our social and political order to the needs of the majority of people?"
A.) Could not be better.
B.) Excellent.
C.) Good.
D.) Satisfactory.
E.) Fair with only some rather minor and transitory matters for concern.
E.) Needs significant improvement but can be redressed and put right without fundamental changes to the order.
F.) Unsatisfactory.
G.) &cetera
H.)
__________________________________
"Economic migrants do the U.S. no harm, and in fact are often a benefit."
... "The farm industry and the food processing industry rely upon migrant labor, and that is simply not going to change."*
(>131 StormRaven:) Q.E.D. I rest my case.
So then, there we have it: what U.S. agriculture--and, above all, the Californian fresh-produce agriculture sector--must ensure is that social and economic conditions in Mexico and, as much as possible, in the rest of Central and South America, remain as wretched and miserable, as life-devastating and cruelly unfair as it is possible for them to be short of provoking an outright violent order-reversing revolution.
Take your claims, put them on a big campaign-style button/pin in large, readily legible, type, and wear that everywhere you go.
I expect many people will not be shy about telling you what they think of such bullshit. Better keep a body-guard with you in many, many parts of the country, high long-term immigrant areas included.
I don't want anyone who thinks as you do in any position of authority or responsibility, anywhere, ever.
_______________________________________
* If you, "Dems" & others who think as you do have their way, sure. You should be condemned by court-order to twenty years of picking lettuce in the Salinas valley since such misery is precisely what your policy-position is designed to promote and perpetuate.
Here's Trump's 2020 Re-Election slogan :
Crazy Dems say, "Economic migrants do the U.S. no harm, and in fact are often a benefit"! (they just carefully omit the admission that "illegal" is the modifier term which belongs before "migrants")
"Caesar-salad dressing is white-but that's because we've strained out the migrants' blood which it comes filled with prior to our processing."
So much for attempts to 'guilt-trip' Trump-supporters with this hypocrisy-dripping concern of yours for the welfare of migrants, desperate to get into the U.S. via the southern border. Migrants wash up dead or die of dehydration in the border deserts of northern Mexico so that wealthy financiers and business executives in New York, Boston, Washington, D.C. and other U.S. cities may enjoy their salads, grapes, peaches, strawberries and melons at much lower prices than should otherwise be the case-and, just as much or more, so that the powerful agri-business farms and their customers, the grocery-store chain retailers can reap enormous 'middle-man' profits-- since the price of the fruits and vegetables on the grocery aisle bears little resemblance to what the independent (if any such remain) farmers are paid for their produce. Next time you enjoy such food, I hope your thoughts--never mind calling it a "conscience"--are filled with images of the bodies of dead immigrants who never survived long enough to be arrested and detained in those ghastly detention-centers.
... "and the U.S. seemed to do just fine then" ...
LOL!
Oh, right. Of course they did! And, that reminds me: take a poll of the multi-billionaires. They'll tell you earnestly that, a few things here and there aside, the system is working well and many are prospering by it.
"How would you describe the state of affairs from the point of view of economic justice and fairness in the country and the responsiveness of our social and political order to the needs of the majority of people?"
A.) Could not be better.
B.) Excellent.
C.) Good.
D.) Satisfactory.
E.) Fair with only some rather minor and transitory matters for concern.
E.) Needs significant improvement but can be redressed and put right without fundamental changes to the order.
F.) Unsatisfactory.
G.) &cetera
H.)
__________________________________
"Economic migrants do the U.S. no harm, and in fact are often a benefit."
... "The farm industry and the food processing industry rely upon migrant labor, and that is simply not going to change."*
(>131 StormRaven:) Q.E.D. I rest my case.
So then, there we have it: what U.S. agriculture--and, above all, the Californian fresh-produce agriculture sector--must ensure is that social and economic conditions in Mexico and, as much as possible, in the rest of Central and South America, remain as wretched and miserable, as life-devastating and cruelly unfair as it is possible for them to be short of provoking an outright violent order-reversing revolution.
Take your claims, put them on a big campaign-style button/pin in large, readily legible, type, and wear that everywhere you go.
I expect many people will not be shy about telling you what they think of such bullshit. Better keep a body-guard with you in many, many parts of the country, high long-term immigrant areas included.
I don't want anyone who thinks as you do in any position of authority or responsibility, anywhere, ever.
_______________________________________
* If you, "Dems" & others who think as you do have their way, sure. You should be condemned by court-order to twenty years of picking lettuce in the Salinas valley since such misery is precisely what your policy-position is designed to promote and perpetuate.
Here's Trump's 2020 Re-Election slogan :
Crazy Dems say, "Economic migrants do the U.S. no harm, and in fact are often a benefit"! (they just carefully omit the admission that "illegal" is the modifier term which belongs before "migrants")
"Caesar-salad dressing is white-but that's because we've strained out the migrants' blood which it comes filled with prior to our processing."
So much for attempts to 'guilt-trip' Trump-supporters with this hypocrisy-dripping concern of yours for the welfare of migrants, desperate to get into the U.S. via the southern border. Migrants wash up dead or die of dehydration in the border deserts of northern Mexico so that wealthy financiers and business executives in New York, Boston, Washington, D.C. and other U.S. cities may enjoy their salads, grapes, peaches, strawberries and melons at much lower prices than should otherwise be the case-and, just as much or more, so that the powerful agri-business farms and their customers, the grocery-store chain retailers can reap enormous 'middle-man' profits-- since the price of the fruits and vegetables on the grocery aisle bears little resemblance to what the independent (if any such remain) farmers are paid for their produce. Next time you enjoy such food, I hope your thoughts--never mind calling it a "conscience"--are filled with images of the bodies of dead immigrants who never survived long enough to be arrested and detained in those ghastly detention-centers.
147John5918
UN Refugee Agency 'Concerned' About New Asylum Restrictions (Newsmax)
"UNHCR, the U.N. refugee agency, is deeply concerned about the new rule barring from asylum the majority of people crossing the southern U.S. land border... This will endanger vulnerable people in need of international protection from violence or persecution"...
"This measure is severe and is not the best way forward."
The new rule, published in the Federal Register, says asylum seekers who pass through another country will not be eligible for asylum at the U.S. southern border...
"UNHCR believes the rule excessively curtails the right to apply for asylum, jeopardizes the right to protection from refoulement, significantly raises the burden of proof on asylum seekers beyond the international legal standard, sharply curtails basic rights and freedoms of those who manage to meet it, and is not in line with international obligations"...
"UNHCR, the U.N. refugee agency, is deeply concerned about the new rule barring from asylum the majority of people crossing the southern U.S. land border... This will endanger vulnerable people in need of international protection from violence or persecution"...
"This measure is severe and is not the best way forward."
The new rule, published in the Federal Register, says asylum seekers who pass through another country will not be eligible for asylum at the U.S. southern border...
"UNHCR believes the rule excessively curtails the right to apply for asylum, jeopardizes the right to protection from refoulement, significantly raises the burden of proof on asylum seekers beyond the international legal standard, sharply curtails basic rights and freedoms of those who manage to meet it, and is not in line with international obligations"...
148margd
Comparing Benefits for Refugees and Senior Citizens (US)
Saranac Hale Spencer | July 19, 2019
...An internal report from the Department of Health and Human Services in 2017 estimated that the annual per refugee cost was $7,134 for federal, state and local governments combined between 2005 and 2014. Programs funded by the federal government were 74 percent of that total, so, on average, the federal government spent $440 per refugee, per month, during the study’s time period...
Also, many of the programs that refugees are eligible to apply for are temporary.
...The average monthly Social Security benefit for all retired workers in 2019 is $1,461, according to the Social Security Administration.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/comparing-benefits-for-refugees-and-senior-cit...
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Do ‘Illegal’ Refugees Receive $3,874 Per Month from the Government? (Canada)
Dan MacGuill | 15 November 2017
Claim: Each refugee in Canada receives $3,874 every month from the government under the Resettlement Assistance Program.
("This is what 1 illegal refugee gets with the federal assistance program: $3874 per month.")
Rating: Mostly False
What's False: Refugees who receive the listed benefits are, by definition, not "illegal" (i.e. undocumented), most of the listed benefits are one-off payments and, not monthly stipends, and these benefits are for a family of five people rather than a single individual.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/monthly-refugee-benefits/
Saranac Hale Spencer | July 19, 2019
...An internal report from the Department of Health and Human Services in 2017 estimated that the annual per refugee cost was $7,134 for federal, state and local governments combined between 2005 and 2014. Programs funded by the federal government were 74 percent of that total, so, on average, the federal government spent $440 per refugee, per month, during the study’s time period...
Also, many of the programs that refugees are eligible to apply for are temporary.
...The average monthly Social Security benefit for all retired workers in 2019 is $1,461, according to the Social Security Administration.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/comparing-benefits-for-refugees-and-senior-cit...
_________________________________________________________
Do ‘Illegal’ Refugees Receive $3,874 Per Month from the Government? (Canada)
Dan MacGuill | 15 November 2017
Claim: Each refugee in Canada receives $3,874 every month from the government under the Resettlement Assistance Program.
("This is what 1 illegal refugee gets with the federal assistance program: $3874 per month.")
Rating: Mostly False
What's False: Refugees who receive the listed benefits are, by definition, not "illegal" (i.e. undocumented), most of the listed benefits are one-off payments and, not monthly stipends, and these benefits are for a family of five people rather than a single individual.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/monthly-refugee-benefits/
149John5918
The horrors at US detention centres for migrant children are haunting even some Border Patrol agents (Scroll.in)
In the frontline of Donald Trump’s crackdown on immigration, some agents have been forced to accept conditions in holding camps as normal, even appropriate...
In the frontline of Donald Trump’s crackdown on immigration, some agents have been forced to accept conditions in holding camps as normal, even appropriate...
150John5918
Desperation and Fear on the Mexican Border (Inter Press Service)
On the 2,000-mile journey from San Pedro Sula, Honduras, to the US-Mexico border, the 20-year-old asylum seeker and her 16-year-old brother took turns sleeping every time they managed to catch a ride or get on a bus. She told me they kept each other safe that way.
The asylum seeker – I’ll call her Gloria because she was afraid to have her real name published – said she fled Honduras with her little brother after a member of a gang there stalked and threatened to kill her for refusing to be his girlfriend.
When the siblings turned themselves in to US Border Patrol near El Paso, Texas, in mid-April, agents separated them.
“Where are you taking him?” she asked.
“He’s going to a better place than you,” she said an agent replied. But as we have found, Gloria’s brother, like other children in Border Patrol detention, certainly was not going to a good place.
Gloria said she spent six days in Customs and Border Protection custody without sunlight in an overcrowded cell with no shower or ready access to water. She was then placed in the Trump administration’s Migrant Protection Protocols (MPP) or “Remain in Mexico” program and sent alone to Mexico. She is expected to wait there for the duration of her asylum case, which could take months or years. She will be allowed to travel to the US only to attend immigration court hearings.
When I interviewed her in the border city of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, in May, she hadn’t heard from her brother in weeks. She seemed more worried about him than anything else, but her own situation was dire.
Like the other asylum seekers we interviewed about the cruel and chaotic MPP program, Gloria found it hard enough to survive, let alone pursue her asylum case.
The shelter where she spoke to me has a limit on the number of days she can stay. Shelter operators explained they don’t want to kick vulnerable people out, but they feel they must give priority to those US authorities have most recently sent to Mexico, since they’re the most disoriented.
One shelter operator broke down and cried when we asked why one family was told that day would be their last...
151John5918
US expands powers to deport migrants without going to court (BBC)
The US government is introducing a new fast-track deportation process that will bypass immigration courts.
Under the new rules, migrants who cannot prove they have been in the US continuously for more than two years can be immediately deported.
Until now, expedited deportations could only be applied to those detained near the border who had been in the US for less than two weeks.
Rights groups say hundreds of thousands of people could be affected.
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) says it will challenge the policy in court...
One of the things that many of us admire in the USA is due process. It seems this is yet another attack on the sense that everybody is entitled to a fair hearing and due process.
The US government is introducing a new fast-track deportation process that will bypass immigration courts.
Under the new rules, migrants who cannot prove they have been in the US continuously for more than two years can be immediately deported.
Until now, expedited deportations could only be applied to those detained near the border who had been in the US for less than two weeks.
Rights groups say hundreds of thousands of people could be affected.
The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) says it will challenge the policy in court...
One of the things that many of us admire in the USA is due process. It seems this is yet another attack on the sense that everybody is entitled to a fair hearing and due process.
Este tema fue continuado por Crafting Immigration Policy in America 4.
