What art do you practice?

I practice Tai chi, Xing Yi, Ba Gua and internal arts of Kung fu (Animal styles) or rather hope to practice the internal Kung fu someday :)

I am an armchair 'practioner' at this point though I keep gravitating towards Aikido. I did an intro to Tang Soo Do quite a while ago.

Nice, good choice on the Aikido, my cousin is a practitioner and Morihei Ueshiba was one amazing man. Have you read his works? I have yet too, my cousin keeps pestering me on doing so, but there are so many other books to read.

Right now I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and MMA. The latter isn't really a martial art as such, I know; in my club it consists of MMA, Greco-Roman wrestling and Thai boxing.

In the past I've done Japanese Jiu Jitsu (shodan), boxing, Goju-Ryu Karate and Tae Kwon Do.

As for Aikido ... it's unquestionably one of the most beautiful and graceful martial art I've seen. My Japanese JJ club shared space with an Aikido club, so I got to watch their sessions through the space of several years. If you're going to do Aikido for the choreography and the art, all the more power to you. But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone looking to learn self-defence, because in that aspect it's useless.

I practice Krav Maga. I love its practical applications.

I have not read Ueshiba directly.

My first martial art (years ago) was hapkido. Most recently I practiced ju-jitsu for a couple of years; and I have practiced a very little bit of ninjutsu and tae kwon do. Currently, when I train, I do so with a hybrid of all of them.

I've studied a tiny bit of Karate and Tai Chi, but I'd really like to study a Martial Art in depth. I'm trying to decide which would be best for me.

I would like it to be something that would give me some self-defense if ever needed (single woman), but mostly, I want to be able to have better control, discipline, and mental awareness. And, of course, to be more physically fit. All Martial Arts give all of this, so I'm not sure how to choose which would be a good fit to me. Also, I do have an interest in weapons. I'd love to be able to develop that skill.

Any ideas for me? thanks everyone!

annabethblue: For self defence as a single woman, the two absolute best martial arts you can do are Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and kickboxing/Thaiboxing.

BJJ gives you control when the fight is taken to the ground, which, sad to say, is where most fights involving a man assaulting a woman are headed. An attacker is far more likely to try and hold you down, possibly with sexual assault in mind, than he is to simply hit you in the face.

Kickboxing and Thai boxing is the best you can do if you only want to fight on your feet, and are absolutely certain that you'll never be grabbed or held down. Regular Western style boxing works as well, but you're rather held back if you can't kick, since women tend to have much less punching power than men.

I should warn you that, in my experience at least, true control and discipline doesn't come from the way in which classes are taught. I've been to clubs where each session was like an army training ,with everyone lining up, shouting at the appropriate time, marching in step - and it had absolutely zero effect on their ability to defend themselves, nor to transfer this club discipline into their personal training routines. Control, discipline and mental awareness all come from doing live sparring over and over and over again, with a fully resisting opponent. The discipline keeps you at it, the control comes while you're doing it, and the mental awareness is a direct result.

If you have any specific questions, or feel that something I've said is unclear or wrong, feel free to email them to me directly. The mail address is on my profile page. Tomorrow I'm leaving for a month to stay with my girlfriend in Denmark, so I don't know how much I'll be able to access librarything, but I check my email once a day.

Personally for a single woman looking for the things Annabeth described I would recommend Tai chi, Xing Yi or Ba Gua...These are terribly powerful internal martial arts. That intently focus on the Will, Qi and Mind first rather than the body. Most describe it like this (and I am not fond of this b/c there is more to all martial arts) But your external styles i.e. Karate, Shaolin, Jiu Jitsu these are great arts but focus on strength toughening and stregthening the body first. Then gradually allowing the mind and spirit to come into it to reach higher levels.
Tai chi, Xing Yi, Ba Gua (internal styles) are the opposite to where when you perform (as you probably know Annabeth) You focus on complete relaxation. The goal or idea is to be so Yin that you reach a complete and utter state or relaxation, so you are meditating (and in Wudang Mountain terms) Uniting with Tao, thus becoming compeltely and totally aware of anything, everything and nothing.
I have seen a 90 year old man that practiced Tai chi easily take out 10 25 yr old martial artists in about a minute and not even breathing heavily.
The internal arts rely on the perfect balance of mind, body, spirit and Qi. Like my master has told me:
"The reason me, a 150 lb 50 yr old man can throw a 300 or more lb man is a matter of balance. I cannot obviously match him pound for pound, but I can make him off balance, then his 300 lbs. becomes 3-4 ozs. This I can throw without effort."

though with all of us being interested in the Martial arts and with you looking you will get 1,000's of opinions on what is best. Here are some things that helped me:

"There is no superior martial art...only a superior martial artist!"
"Let the martial art choose you."

As for the discipline and control, you already do this day to day. You already have this inherent within you, we all do. You just have to work at bringing it out yourself. And while there are teachers out there that may say different the only one that has access to those things are you. At least in my experience. Even if you train in a Martial Art A teacher will not be there 24/7 telling you to practice and so on, this is where the discipline and control come in.

Hope this helps with your search and if you are looking for some in depth books on some martial arts let me know I can readily give you reccomendations. Some are in my library and some are not.

*Bows*

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this, Taoquan. As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as an internal martial art, only martial arts that work or don't work when you get into a fight. The ones that work can be seen in tournaments, both in their own styles and in free-for-alls. The ones that don't work can only make baseless claims that they work, and when they fail, they maintain that the failure was in the student and not in the art itself.

If a person wants to get into the culture of martial arts, that's fine. But if they're looking at it with self defence in mind, you do them a disservice by muddying the waters with pseudoscientific crud. There is no inner peace as far as self defence goes, no total awareness, no chi, and no old masters capable of beating groups of young people.

(I completely belive you, Taoquan, when you say that you saw a 90 year old Tai Chi practicioner beat 10 martial artists. I suspect they were his students, or at the very least studying the same art. I also fully believe that if this man had been faced with a single competent boxer, he'd have been knocked out on the spot. I base this belief on my own experience in the ring and in various martial art dojos.)

To test whether a martial art is an effective means of self-defence, do this: Get one of its practicioners to fight a boxer, a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu student, or a Greco-Roman wrestler. All of these sports are focused solely on performance and are for the most part utterly devoid of the senseless vagueness and mystery that pervades so many martial arts. If someone can hold their own against one of these people, their training is good for self-defence. If they can't, then it isn't, and if self-defence was their primary goal then they've been wasting their time.

Oh, and if the teachers don't want their students to fight one of those people, that's all the proof you need that their art doesn't work.

I think we will agree to disagree here, though I do want to point out the the very culture of martial arts is the basis of Qi and peace of mind...You have to remember that when ancient masters (and some current ones, esp. of asian decent) had a hard time conveying to words what they were experiencing in terms of our more modern language.
So techniques were given names like "Dragonfly dipping in the water" When it seemed more poetic (to an asian background) than squat down, center your weight to the left and when you feel so much pressure shift weight and turn.
The internal martial arts are actual a set of martial arts that are based in very strict scienctific proof, if this is what you are wondering. All of the internal Martial arts is based so you use the least strength needed within a fight.
How is this accomplished? By learning a very strict set of physics, balance and the use of angles and vulcrums. Throwing a 300 lb man, or even 200 lb is difficult w/o being very strong, however if you take his center (i.e. make him lose balance) through the use of angles and physics...anyone is easy to throw if their balance is off set. Most people can barely maintain balance on their own when they lose it and add someone pushing from an advantageous position, it makes some appear as though they have super human strength, when in truth it is timing, balance, angle and little power.
This is the basis of internal martial arts, this is why anyone can learn and use physics to their advantage. The problem was explaining the idea of vulcrums, gravity and balance in the East 1,000 years ago, they came up with more poetic and mystifying terms.

I would like to learn more about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and what you practice Chilblain. Can you recommend any books or info I could look into for it.

If you are interested in a more demystified book of Tai chi, look in to The Dao of Taijiquan by Grandmaster Jou Tsung Hwa...he does a marvelous job of explaining some of this history and putting the Asian thought of Internal martial arts in more a western thought.

Though I do want to mention that currently my Master does not allow us to fight (tourneys are frowned upon) more b/c we as students are taught to NEVER pull a punch (we spar in nearly full body gear). This decreases the effectiveness of martial arts by nearly half. He mentions he would rather have us never compete and learn to never pull punches, in order to not have the fear of pulling a punch in a real life, life or death situation.

*Bows*

btw I have heard of Hapkido...that is more of tight and close range martial art is that right Dodger?? otherwise I know little of it.

Also Engprof can you explain or recommend where I can find more info in Krav Maga I heard of it but that is all.

Thanks all
*Bows*

Krav Maga is a form of martial arts used by the Isreali Military. It focuses on hand-to-hand combat based on the principles of the way your body naturally moves. It focues on teaching you to react to reality-based situations. I will say it takes a lot of hard work and dedication. My orange-belt test was a 2 and a half hour workshop followed immediately by a 2 and a half hour test.

I agree with practically everything in your post, Taoquan, apart possibly from the last bit about pulling punches.

The problem isn't so much with the techniques as with the way they're taught and practiced. Take Japanese Jiu Jitsu and Judo, for example. I have a black belt in the former (from the World Jiu-Jitsu Organization) and while I have not done the latter I'm very familiar with it (my current MA club used to share space with a Judo club, and we've competed in each other's tournaments).

The techniques between Japanese Jiu Jitsu (JJJ) and Judo are often extremely similar; most of the throws are just about identical. However, while Judo goes in for a lot of sparring and tournament work, JJJ doesn't, and in fact has no valid sparring at all. The upshot of this is that if you do a few years in Judo and manage to achieve a black belt, you're going to be extremely efficient at tossing people about - something I can vouch for, having sparred with Judo black belters. But if you do a few years in JJJ and get a black belt, you'll be utterly useless at defending yourself, even if you know many of the same throws that the Judo guys do. What's worse, you'll have developed a lot of bad habits that will actually decrease your chances at escaping unscathed from a fight. I know a bunch of JJJ black belters, and although many of them are friends of mine, people I really like, I know full well that if they got into a fight with a Judoka they'd be eaten alive. Given equal weight and age, even someone with a year's worth of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu could beat them fairly easily.

That's what I dislike when it comes to mysticism in the martial arts. All by itself it's perfectly fine, and I'd never dream of criticizing anyone who likes it just for the philosophy, history or cultural value. But it's too often used to mask the ineffectiveness of a martial art.

You mention that you guys spar, which I think is great; sparring is the cornerstone of any martial art, so long as it's done with resistant partners. I presume that during your sparring you're able to pull off the techniques you've learned in class, against fellow practicioners and newcomers alike. If you are, I'd say your martial arts works perfectly well for self defence.

As for books on BJJ, good question. I have none myself; the only martial arts books I have are the one on Small Circle Jiujitsu by Wally Jay, and The Tao of Jeet Kune Do by Bruce Lee. Given the tone of your posts, though, I strongly suspect you would enjoy The Snow Leopard. It's nothing to do with martial arts, and is merely a travelogue of a man trudging through the mountains of Tibet, but it does contain a lot of very potent observations about life and one's place in it, ones that I've seen echoed in some of the more mystical martial artists. I didn't like the book much myself, but that's simply because I'm not at a place in my life where I can appreciate it, and don't expect to be for a while yet. Since I have nothing more to do with it, I'd be happy to mail you my copy if you're so inclined.

Thanks for the offer Chilblain, but you keep it just in case you get to that point within you life. You never know.

Engprof, I thought I recognized Krav Maga from somewhere I just could not remember where. If memory serves that is also a very brutal martial art is it not?

For any interested here is the website of where I practice, it does give you more info. on the internal martial arts and so on.

www.iwt-ma.org

*Bows*

I started with Karate and Tae Kwon Do but I didn't much care for them at all. I couldn't do anything with them. Of course I was much younger and only about 60lbs of nothing and the only thing I could do was grapple because I could slip out of anything but I couldn't /do/ anything. It's all fine and dandy breaking boards and bricks and being able to do that, but if I couldn't use it on a person.. well...

So I pretty much gave up for awhile, then I found Aikido. And it's awesome. We have a tiny dojo where we learn the kata, of course, and then break it down to see how it works, what we can use in different situations, and how to modify it ever so slightly. We also learn a lot of judo and jujitsu and defending against different weapons.

I've seen several styles of Aikido that I don't think would work all that well. But they were a 'hard' style and I've been learning for years to respond to the attacker, and not force the attacker to go somewhere they aren't trying to get to. I wouldn't use the word 'internal' for Aikido, even though there is a lot written on the energy and all. I'd say intellectual and physical because the mind really has to be engaged in where the body is, and where the body of the attacker is, and where the attacker's going and where the body needs to be.

As for not working for self defence, well, It's saved my life, so I can say it works. As for fighting other martial artists, Aikido is not a competitive sport. But I have seen upper level (red and white) belts who I know would win in any fight you put them in. I've also seen upper levels that wouldn't. I don't think it's the martial art, but the way the different people learn it and try and use it. I know some people will not deviate from the kata at all and do not understand what they are trying to learn. It's not the martial art's fault. The tools are all there for everyone to use and figure out! Especially with a good teacher, which we have plenty of.

I've read a lot of books on Aikido, but I only own one (and it's not only library thing) and even that book was an accident. Long story. I've been on the look out for more, but I don't have much money. :P

Welcome aboard Writist, good to have you in the group. I agree with you about how people learn the martial art. My teacher would always say:
"There is no superior martial art, only a superior martial artist!"
I am curious if your aikido book is Morihei Ueshiba's? My cousin has the same book and Morihei Ueshiba (O' Sensei) was a truly amazing man. Some tales say he did base Aikido off of some Ba'gua that he learned during his time in china. If you practice Aikido and have seen Ba'gua you can see the similarities.
Anyway welcome aboard, we aren't a terribly active group, but we are here
:)

Aikido is very much the son of Daito Ryu akijitsu. relationships to bagua merely generic. Aikido emphasises multiple attacker defenses more than than most arts and thus shares with Bagua an emphasis on fighting in the round. also like Aikijitsu Bagua was intended as a bodyguards art, Form follows function. so there are resemblences. but comparing the ashisabaki of most aki styles will reveal how little aikido footwork has with the Bagua practise of walking the circle.

Welcome Simon,
I am unfamiliar with Daito Ryu Akijitsu, can you suggest any sources on it? I was always told that during Morihei Ueshiba's time in China he spent time learning from a Bagua master. Though only told this by other teachers, I cannot find much info. as fact. Though I am curious about this other art you mention.

Hmm. the ebudo forum is probably a good place to start.

Sokaku Takeda also well known for his swordsmanship taught Daito Ryu, He claimed it was an an ancient art but that the paperwork had been lost in a fire. and Ueshiba had a teaching certificate in this art was the one that sugested that the name be to aikijujitsu from jujitsu. he never gain a menkyo kaiden in this art but did award these to other people. Most people not maintaining a diplomatic silence say they fell out because The money for these certificates never found its way to Takeda. It was a big influence on a lot of styles at this time.

Hang on while I cut and paste something that I added to Wikipedia and seems more or less unchanged since.
There are a number of martial arts in addition to aikido which appear or claim to descend from the art of Daito-ryu or the teachings of Takeda Sokaku. Among them is the Korean martial art of hapkido founded by Choi Yong Sul, who made unverified claims to have trained under Takeda Sokaku, Hakko Ryu founded by Okuyama Yoshiharu who trained under Takeda, Nippon Shorinji Kempo founded by Nakano Michiomi (So Doshin) who is known to have trained under Okuyama. Several other modern schools of aikijutsu such as Yamate-Ryu, Takeda-Ryu and Nami-Ryu also claim a connection to Takeda.

The original style still exists but as is so often the case it is worth checking more than the sign above the door before you enrol.

Wow - there are martial arts here that I've never heard of. Pleasure to meet you all.

I am a first degree black belt in Choi Kwang Do. It's a blend created by Grandmaster Choi of tai kwan do, yoga, chiropractics, and boxing. It's incredibly effective and focuses on personal best. I was an asst instructor for a few years, and now my brother is a second degree black belt and a chief instructor. My mom swore that by the time her kids were 18, we would all be black belts and we are. ;) I have very little upper body strength, so my specialties were in balance, kicks, and just being plain ole squirrelly.

I quit CKD after I was diagnosed with a heart disorder and the speed drills became too difficult for me to master. Since then, I've been dabbling in Tai Chi but haven't gotten very far with it. I would love to get into something to keep me toned and limber again.

Welcome Imaginelove,
Tai Chi would be great for your heart condition as it does focus on stretching, strengthening and proper body alignment. Actually Ba gua would also be great,

one book to check out is the Dao of Taijiquan by Grandmaster Jou Tsung Hwa.

I practice primarily Shotokan Karate and Yoseikan Aikido (really called Yoseikan Budo, but we shyed away from the competitive sport nature and focused on the Aikido and Judo aspects). I've also learned a bit of weaponry, and have done a bit of T'ai Chi.

I'm another BJJ guy: been training at the Roger Gracie Academy in London, UK since November 2006. Did various styles before that, mainly something called Zhuan Shu Kuan (basically, kickboxing with traditional trimmings) from 1999-2007.

Hi there, I'm new to this group.

Just wanted to share my words with you all. I practice Aikido myself for not so long. Also I've practiced Ninjitsu, Thai-Boxing and some Pencak Silat.

For those of you that are unfamiliar with these sports. Aikido evolves around the tiniest motions, Ninjitsu is quite like Karate-Do, and Thai-Boxing and Pencak Silat involves a lot of breaking techniques versus immobiliarization moves. Of course this is just the one sentence explanation of what these arts are about and practicing them for real, involves presumably a lifetime.

But for now I think I will stick to Aikido.

Read The book of five rings by Miyamoto Musashi, very good book for the samurai equivalence of the present day.

I do Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido and Muay Thai.

By the way im also new to this group and i would like to hear from u all and hear all bout the different styles of martial arts u do.

Is this group dead?

Anyway, I am practicing several martial arts. The schools I attend are from Bruce Lee's philosophy of JKD.

So, currently I am training in Pekiti Tersia Kali, Inosanto Kali, JKD, Wing Chun, and actually taking Inosanto Kali at 2 diff schools.

Every so often, I take silat and mess around with the wrestling and BJJ guys as they show me great tips on how to roll forward, backward, escaping guillotines etc :)

Thankyou for creating this group, Taoquan.

I've done a bit of boxing, a little Tae kwan do, about 20years of Zen Do Kai (a mixture of martial arts descended from Goju Kai), Muay Thai, some Jiu Jitsu, dabbled in Kendo ,western style fencing and other weapons, Tai chi, Yoga and am learning some BJJ. I've worked as a security officer and bouncer.

I like to say I'm retired and just grow vegetables.

Know a good teacher of Ba Gua? I've been curious about that for some time and would love to learn. I like the practical and the internal aspects of martial arts. I think that much of our practical comes from that internal.

Still enjoying the journey,

Deepest of bows :)