Unseen Academicals: the spoiler thread. Don't read if you haven't read it!!

Just finished, gotta talk about it. Here's the place to do so.

I think I read this with the wrong mindset - I was looking for one of the more 'parody' Pratchett, so was expecting a thick accumulation of soccer jokes, rather than the rather more subtle and thoughtful (and less narrowly focused) book this was.

Interested to hear more about your thoughts on the LotR angle...

I can see that the 'multiple endings' could be taken at having a go at the movie 'Return of the King'.

In LotR it was Sauron who 'twisted' Elves (?) to create Orcs and yet on the Discworld it was Humans who made the Orcs. Does that put us on a par with one of the ultimate bad guys?

I did like the way that football at the start was as much, if not more, about the crowds (the Shove, chanting, colours, rivalry) than about the sport itself.

And Havelock got drunk! Falling down (well toe-stubbing) drunk! Who'd have thunk?

I wasn't quite able to appreciate all the jokes, not being a sports fan (and not acquainted with soccer).

A fun Pratchett book, certainly (always is) but not one of my favourites.

A swansong and, sadly, rather out of tune.

There were perhaps 50 pages where I smiled and the parody of Andrew Marvell's poem 'To His Coy Mistress' actually raised a laugh.

I started the book with the mindset that maybe I wasn't going to enjoy it - generated by the recent disappointment of Nation - but there was nothing there to change my mind.

Regarding the Tolkien angle: off the top of my head (corrections welcome), it was Morgoth, long before the War of the Ring era, who corrupted captured Elves to create the original Orcs; presumably Sauron could have repeated the process had he needed to, but I can't bring to mind any reference to his having done so. LotR does however have its suggestions that Saruman used Orc-Mannish interbreeding to create the 'fighting' Uruk-Hai.

Series-wise it's an interesting decision for Pratchett, certainly: it recalls the very earliest books, when Discworld was primarily a fantasy genre-spoof rather than primarily social satire.

Have to say I was disappointed. Loved the beginning, but it just didn't go anywhere. We had the same story (unlikely new character must save the city! Vetinari's machinations depend upon him/it!) as in Going Postal and the abomination that was Making Money (and, lets face it, Moving Pictures, The Truth, Feet of Clay, Thief of Time etc). We have beautiful-but-dim girl (again), plain-but-brave-and-intelligent girl (ditto – normally I like this one, but it's getting predictable) and we have Discworld-minority-of-the-moment saving the day. Think Men at Arms and werewolves, Feet of Clay and the golems, think The Truth and vampires, think Making Money and clowns, think Going Postal and banshees (ok, not so much ‘saving the day’ as providing some ethnic colour, but you get my point) … The whole Glenda/Nutt thing was a rehash of Miss Drapes/Mr Bent. (Ok, I know it's a classic story, but the details here are just too similar. With Nutt it was a ‘cupboard’ he was afraid to open, and with Bent it was a wardrobe. Both happened in the presence of the plain-etc girl, who supported him through it. Both caused a transformation into something terrible.)

I really wanted to like this one. And it's nowhere near as bad as Making Money. But it still doesn't manage to lift. It's as though he lost the plot halfway through writing it, and gave up trying to find it again.

(Edited because the original post truncated itself.)

I didn't love this one, either. Just finished it the other day and it's not my favorite. I really enjoy The Watch series and the Death series. I think Discworld is getting a few too many characters in it now, and so, as stated in the previous message, it's hard to keep them all interesting and unique. I'd prefer another story with Susan and Lobsang than another about Nutt and Glenda. However, I have enjoyed getting to know Vetinari a bit more in these later books. He's lost a bit of that air of mystique for me, though.

I did love it - I suspect it will end up as one of my favourites, and am looking forward to listening to it on Audible as well.

I loved it as well. I would like to reread it but it is loan out to one of my friends. Hopefully I can get her started on Discworld.

I liked it, it was much better than the recent few (i.e. Making Money), though I am always a sucker for the patrician.

Probably a good time to re-read UA while the 'danes are watching the World Cup.

This is not one of my favorites, as I expected more of the Soccer angle with which the book started. I think the additional threads of plot (like the fashion shows and the love stories) did more harm than good. But still it was an enjoyable read!

I did like it and thought the plots worked very well together - maybe the US doesn't have the WAG phenomena of our sports stars. it was a major topic last world cup.

#6 - agree with you re Tolkein, but disagree with you regarding Social satire. Lot soand lots of comment on how you treat people influences how they are. Cast Nutt as various different members of society!

the endings - it was sport corrispondant cliche "They think its all over ... it is now" as another goal was scored.

Definetly way way better than Making Money which I didn't much enjoy. More satire, better characters. the only thing I didn't liek was the continual creep of revisions to how AM 'works'. And maybe the wizard defections could have either been taken out or played up more. - although that too is a frequent sporting "excuse" - so and so was out of the team.

Just finished it last night and loved it. I'm a sucker for the politics and Big Meals of the Unseen University, so a book set mostly in the Unseen University was always going to appeal to me.

I did not expect to enjoy the football bits, since I hate the game, but the way all the soccer clichés got turned on their heads was a hoot... And I'm still sniggering at the ancient vase with 'The Tackle' on it.

Having said that, I did wonder whether this book would appeal so much to the US reader. Football is so entrenched in British culture that even someone like me who runs from the room whenever it comes on telly is still familiar with all the clichés. Some of it must be a bit puzzling to anyone who isn't constantly bombarded with the game.

I recently finished the read and so am finally reading this thread. I never even got a glimpse of LotR in it, except maybe for the word, "orc" which isn't exclusive to that work.

For me, it was all about the football intertwined with the love sonnet/Romeo & Juliet aspect. I loved the juxtaposition of the two. Regarding football, I am a barely knowledgeable California girl, but I reveled in the sports cliches. Maybe because I'm married to a man who has explained the European style of football to me?

Anyway, guess I like a good, predictable happy ending story. I loved Mr. Nutt. I loved the mystery of wondering what his mystery was and how that would affect the story and the other characters. I also loved seeing Vetinari "drunk." So talkative! :) Frankly, I identify strongly with Glenda, tending to bossiness and let's-get-down-to-business attitude.

I think you must have a mental illness of some kind, of disability maybe to suffer the feeling that secretly you are an orc, and no one knows---but it will come out. Maybe you can remember doing something bad as a child and waiting and waiting for the truth to surface and everyone will hate you. This is definitely not as funny, but I loved the way Pratchett pulled out the 'good' ending.
It's more of a contemplative book; talks about the fears artists have.

I quite liked the book, but it seems to be one of the "thicker" Discworld books around. I'm probably biased, but the longer the book, the more I tend to enjoy it.

But as always, I was laughing at the one liners, and I enjoyed the Rincewind cameos in it.

The ending was a bit serious for me though... I might have liked it better if it stopped after the football match.