OPRAH ON PUPPY MILLS

Did anyone watch the Oprah show on Friday 4-4. It was a piece on Puppy Mills and it was gut wrenching. It was hard to get through, but was critical in helping people see how inhumane puppy mills treat the dogs. Its so important that this message get out to the public, and that everyone know how incrediblaly necessary it is to spay and neuter our dogs, and to get our dogs from a shelter, instead of a puppy store (Like I'm sorry to say I did). If anyone saw it would love to hear your comments on it...

I am sorry to say that I don't watch or read Oprah Winfrey at all. Scratch that, not sorry at all. She just leaves me cold and thinking "Shut up".
However, on the subject of puppy mills, I agree totally on the inhumanity of such operations. My husband is a veterinarian, and in such a profession, we both see these ops way too much. People cannot understand that just as humans are not meant to bear child after child after child (the body can only stand so much), neither can female dogs. Their litters are of course much bigger, and more taxing to their bodies, esp as they try to nurse after birth. These puppiesfrom mills) usually turn out to be much less healthy that those from a mom bred only once by someone who cares for the mother dog.
Spaying/neutering is always a good idea for one or two dog households. It makes the dog happier and more obedient (removal of large amts. of hormones) and removes the possibility of accidents if another intact dog comes around.
Animals deserve our best care b/c they are more helpless than we are, and have no freedom of choice as we do. Good vet care for your animals is a must for those of us who have them. They can be our best friends if nurtured.

Edited to add; my comment about "child after child..." is not meant to offend those with large families. I come from one myself.

I don't watch Oprah. But puppy mills are awful! So inhumane. I posted this on another group, but it would probably be better off here (it was a very small dog group).
Spaying and Neutering: I think that it's needed because there are already so many dogs and cats in shelters without homes that we don't want to put more on the planet who might end up without homes too. We should adopt the ones already here because they need homes desperately.

What are your feelings on having dogs (and cats) spayed and neutered?

#2 Have you seen that TV show where the couple has 17 kids? None were adopted. (which is bad too...)

No, CB, have not seen that show. I don't want to. If I had 17 kids naturally, I would never want sex again. Too scared of the consequences **hehe**.
Are you asking me my opinion of spaying/neutering?

LOL, I've never watched the show, but I've seen commercials for it.
Sure. You already said some things.

I don't watch any daytime TV, but I'm happy to hear someone with the clout that Oprah obviously has used her show to to shed some light on those horrible places. We need more outspoken people to do the same.

Thanks for sharing this info, ljreader.

#2 - Gee, couldn't you just have said you don't watch her without the snarky comments?

clamairy - Thanks!!! Her show aired Friday and already in one of our offices people are starting a fundraising campaign to sell little bags of dog treats with the money going to our local shelter. So far in one afternoon they raised over $100.00, all a direct result of her show. Oprah herself did not do the reporting, it was done by Lisa Ling, and the message was critical that the message get out. IMHO all pets should be spayed and neutered unless you are a breeder. Besides the health benefits there is no reason to mate your dog for "kicks" to just have some cute puppies which you'll wind up giving away, as I've known some people to do. There are so many dogs in shelters that will be killed if someone doesn't take them. As far as Puppy Mills, its awful what conditions these pups and adult dogs are kept in. They showed a golden lab mother dog that they rescued, about 5 years old, who had never walked on ground. Her whole life was spent in a cage. They showed her trying to walk and it just broke your heart. Later in the show they showed that same dog romping in the grass. I watched the show clutching my dog (to his annoyane) so tight to me that I was almost impeding his airway. You may not like Oprah, but you've gotta give her credit when credit is due....

#8 - Actually I like and admire her very much, I just don't watch TV anymore.
:o)
It is heartbreaking what some humans do to animals, especially the ones that trust us the most.

There is quite a large movement among shelters to become "no kill" shelters. Even the publicly funded shelters around here use large groups of volunteers to work hard at getting every animal adopted. Frankly, I think "unwanted" cats are even a bigger problem than dogs. But, bottom line, if you can't adopt an animal find a shelter to help.

My roommate Tivo'd this for me, but I couldn't make myself watch it. After spending six years of my life working for two animal shelters (five years involved in cruelty investigations) I just can't watch stuff like this anymore. I'm burnt out.

I don't think we even get any Oprah over here at the moment but, considering most doggy people have known about and/or campaigned about puppy farms/mills/supermarkets etc for decades now it amazes me how the word still doesn't seem to have got out, so good for her if she's highlighting the issue.

It also amazes me how many people who I would consider to be otherwise normal, and who know how the rest of us feel about these places, still don't think it applies to them. I'm talking about the kind of person who moans and groans along with the rest of us on the subject then one day you bump into them and they announce they've just bought a puppy from the 'factory' down the road despite the fact that it cost twice what they would have paid a good breeder, they get no papers with it, there is no guarantee if anything goes wrong etc etc and yes, they usually picked the tiniest, scared-est looking one because they felt sorry for it (usually this is because they decided they wanted a puppy and "just couldn't wait"). I'm sure we all know the temptations but the only way to close these places down is to keep away from them. And then usually, when the puppy dies or costs them a fortune in vets' fees within the first month, they're sooooo surprised. Well, WHAT DID WE TELL THEM?

I never watch Oprah and I am home during the day, but I did hear about this show after the fact. Not only are these "millers" or even "backyard breeders" harming the animals, they are creating sick dogs by not knowing how or caring to study a pedigree!

I have three Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and believe me I did my research before acquiring my dogs. All were from respectable breeders, members of the breed clubs and showed their dogs. I visited each one's house and saw the conditions. I read up on the dogs and pedigrees beforehand. These folks do not "make money" on their dogs.

I despise puppy/kitten millers for deliberately breeding the animals to death, and I also have disdain for the backyard breeder type who says "I plan on breeding my labrador retriever to pay for my daughter's wedding reception with the money from the puppies." I actually had that said to me by a dental receptionist once. I was horrified.

These people who just want "one litter" for whatever reason, should get educated. Off my soapbox now!

#13 I just saw this and am shocked that someone would say this.

When we got Scottie we paid a lot of money for her because they are a scarce dog to get. When a family member found out how much we had paid he said "Are you going to breed it? You could earn a fortune."

He was shocked when I said no and explained that as soon as she was a year old she was having the op. The vet said she would be mature enough by then and would have had a couple of seasons. He kept insisting that we could earn a fortune and wouldn't take no for an answer.

In the end I told him that she was our pet, not a cash machine or a licence to print money. We know nothing about breeding or caring for litter of puppies and we felt it inappropriate to risk her health and any potential litter she might have. Scottie's are prone to an internal bleeding problem and if I made her suffer and die for a few hundred pounds I would never have forgiven myself.

He still brings up how much money we have "thrown away" and he gets the third eyeball from me every time.

Jody, perhaps you could stump him with how much public moneys are spent every year having to either care for or put down the thousands of mixed breed dogs who end up in shelters. Tell him that breeding pure breed dogs just contributes to the problem of all the mixed breed dogs who have no home. If everyone who has more than one dog would be sure to at least rescue one or two for every pure bred that they purchase, we might make some in roads on the problem.

now, I'll crawl down from my soap box.

Just had to jump in on this one having read the last few, esp # 13.

In theory, of course I'm with you but by avoiding the 'just one litter' people you may be missing out on some truly excellent breeding. All breeders have to start with 'just one litter'. We bred one litter a number of years ago from our beardie bitch, with the full intention of going on later to have one more litter from her and keeping a daughter to do the same. Because it was our first litter (not counting a pregnant cocker spaniel we rescued many years before) we were determined to do everything right and took advice from Daisy's breeders on selecting the right stud dog and all the other practicalities. Despite the advice of many more experienced breeders who said 'oh, you don't really need to spend money on hip scores, calcium, vet checks etc' we spent a fortune on all those things and, despite eight puppies, didn't really make a profit in the end - but then that was never our intention. Daisy was our beloved pet and we wanted, above all, to keep her safe and healthy.

Because we only had the one litter we were able to put much more time and effort than many professional breeders into checking out potential homes and we stayed in touch with all the people who bought our puppies for at least the first couple of years and, in some cases, for the lifetime of the dog and longer. We ended up keeping two puppies ourselves.

We also had advice right the way through from the people who had bred our bitch (first class, caring breeders themselves) and our excellent vet and we took the advice, not believing we knew better, as some more experienced breeders do. I'm not knocking experienced breeders for a moment - without them, none of us would have our pets, though I have met a number who I would certainly criticise - none or them involved in this story.

When the puppies were around six months old, two things happened that prevented us carrying on with our breeding plans - firstly, we moved to a smaller house that really didn't allow for another litter, secondly, Daisy developed a problem with a kind of pedal dermatitis that we were assured was not hereditary. However, being (I would like to think) responsible breeders, we contacted the owners of all our pups and discovered that one of them had just developed the same thing. Because we would never breed from any dog who might be able to pass on any form of illness to her puppies we made the decision then to have both Daisy and her daughter spayed. We also passed on the information to all the puppies' owners.

What I am trying to say is that a single litter might be just the start of a larger breeding programme or there may be reasons why the breeders discontinue their plans - that doesn't make them more interested in the money than in the puppies - that depends entirely on the person concerned and happens just as much among professional breeders as it does to first-timers. Of course, anyone who is buying a puppy should very carefully check out the breeders and the kind of person who bred just to pay for a holiday is also the kind of person who got a cheap mating from the dog down the road, irrespective of suitability, and saved money on food and care as well, but just to refuse to consider anyone with their first litter is as silly as it is to refuse to look at puppies from a big breeder.

When we were looking for a dog we were turned down by the rescue centre and so turned to the private ads. One was close-by and mentioned Scottie's so we went and found what at first looked like a dump-it site and turned out to be a farm.

The woman who greeted us was uninterested in us as people or potential owners, didn't ask us any questions except had we brought the money with us. I was ready to walk out but wanted to see what condition the dogs were in, just in case I needed to report her. So we looked at the puppies, two different breeds but no Scotties. They were in home-built cages in what looked like an old stable and although they looked clean and healthy the conditions were cramped and dark, with just a tiny pen outside for exercise.

We said we really wanted a Scottie as that was why we came and the woman said her Scottie pups had gone but she could probably get one from her sister in Wales who also bred them. We said that we would call her but instead we rang the RSPCA. They said they were aware of her and her sister and suspected them of being linked to a breeding farm in Wales who were selling dogs that were inbred, sick and "poor quality" with false papers.

We never heard what happened and moved away before we had chance to drive by and check on if the farm was still selling pups.

I would rather find a good backyard breeder than a bad professional and I wish everyone who decided to breed their pet was like Booksloth and researched it (and cared for thier dogs as much as she does). I know that our circumstances at the time would have made us bad breeders and carers for puppy's, living where we did and both working full time when we would need to be at home.

I think what a good breeder needs more than any other thing is a love of dogs, not a love of money.

Thank you very much, Jody, for those kind words. It's a two-way thing, of course - both breeders and buyers have a responsibility to the dogs. There's a certain type of buyer who thinks they are entitled to your puppies just as long as they have the right amount of money (though, of course, if they can haggle, they will). I think my 'favourite' of these (aside from the ones who never stood a chance after their first words on the phone were 'How much are the puppies?') was the woman who simply couldn't understand why I wouldn't sell her one of my babies after she had explained (quite tearfully) that her last THREE dogs had all been run over because she was too damn stupid to shut the gate!

ETA - spelling again - I'm sorry, I just can't help it!

It must have been so hard, having seen the pups to walk away. I'd have wanted to buy them all to rescue them. lets hope the RSPCA took some action.

It's the hardest thing in the world not to buy them all. The trouble with doing that is that you're just encouraging these people to breed more (not to mention putting more money in their pockets - they don't care,after all, whether their puppies sell because people feel sorry for them - it's all just money in the bank to them). Jody did completely the right thing in contacting the RSPCA instead but I bet she felt a great big magnet pulling her back there for ages.

I still think about those pups and thier parents now and I do feel guilty for leaving them. I have a feeling that the RSPCA were too late to save those ones but hopefully got all the evidence they needed and put a stop to this woman and her sister quite soon afterwards.

And I wouldn't have sold a pup to someone who had three dogs run over either. Scottie has escaped three times I think and although I feel guilty she has never been hurt. How many times would those dogs have had to get out before they got run over? It is too much of a coincidence to think that all three could be hit first time.

That's a good point, Jody. I think she must really have been one of those who just leaves the dogs to exercise themselves but didn't want to admit it. We've all had the occasional bid for freedom (Skeelo, are you listening?) but three dogs in a row is a bit much. Maybe I was too fussy - in the end we actually turned away more potential buyers than we accepted (I certainly couldn't do that if I had three or four litters on the go at once and was expecting the same again the following year as we were prepared, in the most extreme instance, to keep the lot if the right people didn't turn up). That may have been a bit over the top but all our puppies stayed with their new owners till the day they died and none of them were run over, so maybe it wasn't a bad thing in the end.

Actually, I'll throw in a word of warning to anyone who is planning a litter of their own. Selling those pups was one of the most traumatic things I'd ever done at that point. And I don't even mean the part about letting them go (to be honest, by the time they are 8 weeks old, it's all getting a bit much and, as long as the new homes have been carefully vetted, there's a bit of a feeling of relief too). No, I'm talking about all the people who ring to ask about them and then tell you exactly how their last dog died. So many of these people were still raw in their grief and most of the phone calls ended up in tears on both ends. (Luckily, these tended to be the ones who were successful in getting a pup or who I could at least pass on to another breeder when my babies had all sold). It's a heartbreaking business though (and I don't mean 'business' in the commercial sense), but ultimately very satisfying - especially when people come to visit you, bringing their much-loved, now fully grown dog with them for you to see how well he/she is doing.

I couldn't bring myself to watch it. I saw the previews and that was plenty for me. I'm from Missouri and we're the 'land of puppymills'. They are everywhere and hard to avoid. We have highway signs and commercials (think Sarah McClaughlan's ASPCA Commercial) everywhere. I can't watch that commercial without crying........so there's no way I could have gotten through Oprah.

Hi Jody, question on your message #17. Why on earth were you turned down by a rescure organization??? Are they nuts??? Just curious.

#24 - sorry just seen this, I was avoiding this thread a bit because it makes me feel so sad.

They turned us down for lots of reasons, the first being that we picked a dog they did not want to re-home because of his temper. They said that he could not be walked without a muzzle, be in a house with a garden attached to any other garden or to anyone with other pets or children. He was sitting perfectly quietly, surrounded by other dogs and not harming a fly. I had put my hand through the bars to pet him and he loved it yet they insisted he would bite anyone he didn't know. They wanted him to go to a farm family but I don't know why because farms are full of animals even if they are not pets.

So we chose another dog and they said our garden was not secure enough for her because she could jump the fence. We offered to put up a bigger fence and they said that still wouldn't be enough because our neighbours had cats and she would chase them (she was an ex-hunting dog) so a high fence still wouldn't deter her if she felt like chasing them.

So we chose a third dog and they said that since we lived in a flat, even though we were moving to a house within the next three months, it was not suitable for a dog.

We asked why they hadn't told us this when we had been visited and before we had chosen two dogs and they said that it didn't matter with the other two dogs because they were unsuitable anyway for other reasons.

They made it so difficult to rescue a dog that it was easier to buy one. And the man who sold Scottie to us was no slouch about her welfare either. He asked us just as many questions, made us sign something to say if we decided we couldn't cope we would sell her back to him or at least offer him first refusal, he called every week for two months to check on her and he took the number of the vet we registered her with so he could check that her puppy check-up went well (partly so he knew his pups were healthy and partly I think to double check we had bothered to get her a vet).

#23 beckylynn- I just got Finnegan, from Missouri. The breeder we got him from was recommened to me by 2 other breeders that I know and trust. I did do tons of research on the breed and breeder, asked tons of questions, and talked to references before I went for my first visit. We met the breeder, asked tons more questions, looked at the puppies, the parents, and the living conditions.
From my research I found that there are tons of puppy farms in Missouri, but there are also the legitimate breeders. Although I wanted to go home with the puppy right then, I knew that I was just there for a visit. He came home with us a week later.
I think it's very important for breeders and buyers to do their research before buying a puppy/dog. This can eliminate some of the problems with the puppy farms/mills.
I don't watch Opera, but I'm in the same boat with you about the commercial. I tear up every time.

I'm good with spaying/neutering (all though my dad says it ruins the dog *rolls eyes towards dad*). Not only does it eliminate the risk of unwanted pets, it also helps with some medical conditions. Finnegan has been neutered, since I have no plans of showing or competing with him.