New Folio LE : Herodotus – The Histories

Herodotus – The Histories LE new on Folio Website this morning. Full leather binding. £345

https://www.foliosociety.com/uk/the-histories.html

Ordered. I was wondering when this would come out after that tease a few months ago. I like the art a lot and do not have the book in my library - a very handsome looking edition.

I'll have to think about this. Would want more maps in a really nice modern Histories.

Ordered. I was hoping the image teased a while back would be Herodotus. It'll make a lovely replacement for my tatty Penguin paperback. The price seems quite reasonable too.

>3 gmacaree: True. But I think the pros far outweigh the cons here.

ETA: finally a Folio made in the UK too :-)

...sumptuous full-grain leather of the binding, tanned using only vegetable products, aniline-dyed a magnificent teal and meticulously hand-polished by Harmatan and Oakridge in Northamptonshire, the traditional heartland of British leather production. The experts at Smith Settle in Yorkshire undertook the binding and the text was printed not far away in Sheffield.

I do like the illustrative style though not an instabuy for me, will definitely nab one when the low stock counter for it goes up.

>4 Levin40: I was going to ask about the leather since they don't specify whether it's calf, goatskin or god forbid the iffy pigskin they used for Pilgrim's Progress. A cursory look at Harmatan and Oakridge's website suggest it's, thankfully, likely to be either one of the former two.

Looks beautiful. The illustrations are very much to my liking also - and as always I wish there was more of them. It's very tempting whatever the case.

This could be my first LE, if stays available till January.

It's a tough call. I've read Herodotus multiple times and for quality, details and translation there is nothing better than the Landmark Herodotus. Every page is full of either maps or very detailed explanatory notes which is extremely useful. In the forum there was talk of this being Herodotus or Thucydides and I really wish they used the landmark series. I guess if I buy this it will solely be for aesthetic purposes.

I do wish they would bind the limitation page into the volume rather than just tipping it in at the front. It might make production a little more complicated, but it would at least avoid the signing feeling so much like a mass-produced afterthought.

Top marks for the gold foil tip though.

I have one Folio edition with a tipped in signature, and they glued it crooked. Irritating.

>8 Joshbooks1:
I agree that the wonderful Landmark edition is the ultimate one. Easton Press published a leather bound Landmark Herodotus/Thucydides set in 2014, now out of print. It wasn’t a limited edition, but the only reason I would consider buying this LE would be for the illustrations.

Good addition to the catalogue. The spine intrigues me, does the placement of the name over the book title indicate an ancient LE series?

Disappointed. Not that there is anything wrong with the idea of Herodotus as an LE. But FS has already published two full versions, and this one doesn't really seem to add much of value for £345. I see no compelling reason to update my two existing FS editions and my Landmark Herodotus. This just seems like an uninspired choice for an LE.

Just my opinion of course. Your mileage may vary :-)

I remember when this was on a survey, and am glad they published it. I will probably buy, though hopefully in a few months when my book budget is replenished a bit. Anyone have any experience with this translation/translator? I’ve heard much praise about the Landmark edition, but I’m curious what people think of the translation at hand.

Ordered 😊

Nah! I said no on the survey a couple of years ago, so I will stick to my Landmark Herodotus. The Folio Le looks nice, but Landmark spoilt me.

Very tempted to make this my first LE, especially because of the interior art previewed in the video. Not exactly thrilled with the teal though and also already have the 1992 FS edition that I'm quite fond of. Tough decision ahead.

Disappointed with yet another edition of Herototus. I'm pleased enough with my LEC and Landmark editions. It seems a steep price ($500 plus tax and shipping) to replace my Oxford trade edition of Robin Waterfield's translation. I wish there were more examples of the interior illustrations by Nick Hayes (I only see one - in the Father of History subsection). Binding looks nice. I think it will probably sell pretty well.

>19 kdweber: I wish there were more examples of the interior illustrations by Nick Hayes

The release video shows a few more illustrations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRj5qevctws&feature=emb_logo

>20 bacchus.: Speaking of the video - does anyone know the piece that was played as the music for it? Really quite lovely.

The FS website says that the illustrations "recall the British linocut tradition embodied by Edward Bawden and Eric Ravilious". I wonder if they might have been specifically inspired by Frank Martin's engravings in FS's 1967 edition of Salomé:

>21 vmb443: According to Shazam, it's Sky City by HalusaTwin.

>22 CLWggg:

That's beautiful.

>21 vmb443: It's lovely indeed but couldn't match song in any app. Maybe one more acquainted with FS customer service can ask? It might be that the original piece was adjusted for the video promotion.

>23 CLWggg: seems that Shazam falls back to obscure electronic music :)

>24 SF-72: It truly is a beautiful volume - the illustrations are gorgeous, it comes in an iridescent brocade binding with peacocks, and as it dates from 1957 it's letterpress. (There are a couple of copies on UK eBay, one of which is just £8.40 with free UK delivery. There also seems to be a 1974 edition with a much plainer binding, but that still retains the peacock motif.)



Does Dr Carter own a copy? If so, I reckon it'd make a great candidate for a "From the archives" post!

Here is a review of several Herodotus translations, including Waterfield’s:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/04/28/arms-and-the-man-3/amp

>26 CLWggg:

Thank you for the extra photo and information. It's a real gem.

There should be plenty of copies of Salome available; it was the free membership giveaway for 1957. The cover material has lasted better than any other silk-type of the period. It is a man-made product produced by a company taken over shortly afterwards. I can't say that the Hayes illustrations scream Bawden or Ravilious to me.

>26 CLWggg: I actually prefer gems like this to LE’s! Possibly because I really don’t like big books. But I love finding and coming back to unique books like this! Thanks for sharing!

Completely enabled by talk both of the new Herodotus LE and the '57 Salome...total cliché, but this group has, in the year or so since I discovered it, been a DISASTER for my wallet--but an absolute delight for this bibliophile's quality of life...

>26 CLWggg: There also seems to be a 1974 edition with a much plainer binding

That was the Folio Press/Dent reprint which was printed lithographically rather than letterpress. To be avoided, really. The original is so much better and is readily and cheaply available.

I have the Nonesuch Press edition with the Rawlinson translation and the woodcuts by Campion. Is the Waterfield translation so good as to warrant purchase of this edition in addition to the Nonesuch one? Would any Herodotus aficionados care to comment?

>26 CLWggg:
I own the Heritage Press edition of Salome, not the FS version, so no Folio Archives review. I may obtain an FS copy as well in the future though, so we will see.

Nice edition. This is one for the wishlist.

Order placed, looks stunning and I have not read this, while I also find myself in need of a comfort purchase during these turbulent times. Production values seem high for that price, when compared to recent LEs like Dune.

I love my Landmark Herodotus, so despite buying nearly all FS LEs, I will pass on this one.

My copy arrived about half an hour ago. First impressions - it looks better in the hand than on the websight and in the video. Pleasantly surprised by the binding which, for the price, I thought might be cheap leather but no. Why Folio don't use Smith Settle more often is beyond me. The only thing that irritates me is the slipcase is VERY tight. Overall I would say that it is extremely good value for the price.

>38 folio_books: what kind of leather is it?

>38 folio_books: can you post some photos, I’m on the fence with this one :)

>39 ultrarightist: what kind of leather is it?

I have no idea, if you mean is it goat or calf. We can eliminate bonded, though.

>40 Bookenstein: can you post some photos, I’m on the fence with this one

Any photos I might take would be of inferior quality to the website so you'll have to trust me it's well worth climbing down from the fence for.

>38 folio_books:

Did you get a nice low number, Glenn? I'm waiting on this one, tempted by the translation and the presentation, but discouraged by having plenty of Herodotus already (Folio Henry Cary translation - not great - and Landmark and Tom Holland)

>41 folio_books: Yes, that is what I meant. Could be cowhide, I suppose. I think someone mentioned that Harmatan's offerings are limited to goatskin and calfskin; if that is true, then it is indeed one or the other. Either way, a full-grain leather from Harmatan is definitely high end.

>42 affle: Did you get a nice low number, Glenn?

No. 8, Alan, with which I am well pleased. I have their 1992 Herodotus but that's now listed on eBay, as per my usual thing. It's only very rarely that I keep multiple copies of the same title. I confess to four Rubaiyats (all Folios, obviously) but that's exceptional.

>43 ultrarightist: Either way, a full-grain leather from Harmatan is definitely high end.

They confirm it's full-grain on the website. After that, I'm lost. What I can say it doesn't have the sumptuous, "bury-your-fingers-in-it" feel of, say, the Luttrell Psalter or Liber Bestiarum LEs, but the feel and smell is of a very nice leather. Hope this helps.

>44 folio_books: I reviewed the Harmatan website. They offer only goatskin or calfskin, so based on that fact and your reply above, I think the leather is calfskin. Again, anything from Harmatan is high end, even if it is not their finest goatskin leather.

>44 folio_books:
>45 ultrarightist:

Calfskin is usually pretty obvious (appears smooth, subtle grain until you get close up).So unless they imprinted an artificial grain for some reason sounds like goatskin to me. Goatskin also doesn't seem to tool as well because of the large grain so there's that. Sometimes adds an interesting pixelated effect to gold tooling. And Harmatan does sell different grades of leather, although seems strange for FS not to get the best quality. If they wanted to save money, there should be better options than going 3rd best of the High-End leathers.

>21 vmb443: does anyone know the piece that was played as the music for it?

>25 bacchus.: Maybe one more acquainted with FS customer service can ask?

That would be me. So I asked. Not unreasonably, they didn't know, other than it had been licensed from the copyright holder, but no further information. If they subsequently turn it up I'll let you know. Sounds very Game-of-Thrones-ish to my tone deaf ear.

Really like this set.



(Selincourt translation and does the job fine for me)

Even though I keep reading that `one can`t have enough editions of Herodotus`

I would easily skip this LE out of arguments mentioned. But, if this would be the start of a new set (which it quite naturally will as it opens doors), I would also be a bit "sad" to miss out on the start

Seem rightly priced, but darn .. I was hoping to save some money

The enthusiasm for the Herodotus LE is way below that for other recent FS LEs.
In the first 48 hours after being notified by folio_books that this LE, and the Dune LE were listed on the website there were 144 comments about Dune, while only 48 for Herodotus.
I do not think it will sell out any time soon.

>49 wcarter:
The enthusiasm for the Herodotus LE is way below that for other recent FS LEs.

This sort of book will always be a slow burn. You don't quite get the same sort of fanatacism for classics that you get for specific genres like fantasy and scifi either.

Personally, I really hope that they go down the route of Candide, Moby Dick and others, where a good quality 'standard' version becomes available. I really can't justify this sort of money nowadays, but would love a 'nice' edition of this version (I really like the Waterfield translation); I would dearly love a copy that I could enjoy reading without the worry of damaging/marking it etc. Same with the Flaubert and the Sterne - these would both be instant buys for me.

Having said that, this is the first to very seriously tempt me for a while, with the added bonus that Smith Settle is very local (I really like their work, including the SF editions).

>49 wcarter: Not sure Dune is a good comparison here. That was exceptional, is currently hugely hyped and had a lower limitation. Clearly Herodotus is not going to sell-out in a timeframe of days. Even the now incredibly-highly-sought-after Book of the New Sun and Dracula both took some weeks to go. However, given the presentation, binding and pricepoint I believe it will sell-out faster than many LEs, perhaps in a 6 month-1 year timeframe, perhaps slightly quicker. A fairer comparison would be with, for example, the Dr Zhivago and Wanderer LEs, both of which are now gone but I believe quite sought after.

>48 Pellias: "Really like this set."

I have the same set and really like it too.
Still, didn't manage to resist this LE... 😊

>48 Pellias: But, if this would be the start of a new set...

That would be great if so! According to Robin Waterfield's website, Folio are working on an edition of his 'Creators, Conquerors, and Citizens'.

https://www.robinwaterfield.com/Current-Projects.html

Though this is perhaps more likely to be a standard edition, probably along the lines of SPQR. He mentions three other translations already published by FS. Anyone know which they are?

It’s a wait and see for me. I too have the Landmark version which is a superior presentation of the actual text.

I would only purchase this for aesthetic reasons. I appreciate the full leather and illustrations, but the colour doesn’t appeal much.

>54 Levin40: He mentions three other translations already published by FS. Anyone know which they are?

Plato, Republic (Great Philosophers of the Ancient World – five-volume boxed set – 2003 and also issued later as a single volume.)

Polybius, The Rise of Rome - 2013

>50 Willoyd: totally agree and just look at some second hand prices. You can pick up the LE Metamorphoses for ~£240 most days, barely more than some popular standard editions. It’s a little insane.

>50 Willoyd:

I know collectors like to keep things pristine but leather is pretty tough :). So is most buckram and the kind of book cloth fine presses use. I read all my fancy books regularly and it takes a lot to even scuff a modern fine press binding. I'd say environmental damage is far more of a problem than handling (the silverfish nibbles page 157 in agreement). The one exception maybe would be the Flaubert LE? Silk seems to age really badly.

>1 folio_books: I cant get the order phone number to work from USA. (all circuits busy)

>53 Dr.Fiddy: Hello fellow Norwegian, nice ! I had quite some work fulfilling that set. To just sort of abandon and turn my back on it. Regarding this LE. I will wait for the counter myself

>54 Levin40: It indeed would be great, and very very likely. The `Gibbon` would pop up someday also.

>58 MobyRichard:
Oh, yes, I know it's tough, but that still doesn't stop me worrying every time I pick up an LE. It's partly why I'm selling most of mine off and replacing with standard or other editions! Can't hack the stress!!

>48 Pellias: I agree! It's one of my favourite Folio sets too. I like the illustrations of this new LE but the relative paucity of them for the price means it doesn't tempt me when I already have the 2007 edition with its 27 full colour illustrations on 17 plates.

PS I'm impressed to see our regular sea-skirted seller on abe already offering the LE for £544 (plus shipping).

Does anyone have a correct phone number for folio that is not the one listed on the site...for USA customers?

My copy arrived today, it's a lot bigger and heavier than I expected (feels similar in weight to the Zhivago LE). The binding and artwork are beautiful, love the leather, very happy with this purchase. My only complaint is the tight "slip" case, but a common issue with FS that I have learned to accept.

>23 CLWggg: Thanks!

My copy arrived today - Copy #5, I was going to put my two cents in, but >64 didaho: said everything I would have said! I am glad I have it!

>27 jroger1: many thanks for your link to the New Yorker article about Herodotus' Histories which I thoroughly enjoyed reading. I'm keen to read George Rawlinson's translation now. I had no idea that Herodotus' prose read so poetically in the original Greek, it's a shame that most translators into English don't appear to have preserved this.

In related news, I was just on a online book browsing tour and discovered the long expected Xenophon's Anabasis in The Landmark Ancient Histories series is up for preorder. No additional information yet on the website.

The Landmark Ancient Histories Books and Samples
Anabasis preorder on Amazon

>67 NLNils: Not available on Amazon's US site.

>67 NLNils:

I'm waiting for Polybius.

This looks like a beautiful LE, I like the elegant and clean design. Hopefully I will be able to obtain it in the future.

>67 NLNils:

It's actually been advertised for a while now. I pre-ordered it some weeks ago.

I'm contemplating this but... I don't know. I have the Easton Press Landmark Herodotus and I can't imagine actually reading another copy, but the color and binding of this are so nice, and it fits right in with the accidental red and turquoisey-blue theme of my ancient world books. But $500 is pretty steep for "I think it's pretty but probably won't actually read this copy."

I received my FS copy (#12) today in fine condition.

With the winter months upon us, I am going to try and read this translation and use the Landmark paperback as a supplemental resource. I am not sure how well this will go but it should be an interesting season.

Bring on the snow.

I had to email about this book since the phone number is out of service. I assume we all know that installments are completely gone from Folio and I am just late to the party? They said it wouldn't work with their new system. It worked fine with their old system as did shipping and online live account history. Not sure what new software they signed up for but definitely not progressive in the e-commerce world. Which it needs to be fully functional since Folio is now online only.

On the Landmark edition: the hardback seems virtually unobtainable. Is the paperback worthwhile buying, or would people wait and see if can get a h/b version?

>75 Willoyd: I own the paperback of Herodotus by them and it’s a good, low cost option. The hardcover is glued, so you are not missing out on quality.

>74 cu29640: You can use PayPal. While paying through PayPal it has an emi option of 4 months. I have never bought on emi but for those people looking at that option it might be good.

>77 bookish_elf: I've looked into that PayPal option myself and my understanding is that installment payments must be made every 2 weeks (still potentially helpful for someone who gets a paycheck every 2 weeks), so you would have 1.5 months to complete payment. Having a credit account with PayPal does open up more interest-free payment options with longer time frames.

>76 NLNils:
Thank you - just the sort of info I needed!

I think this FS edition is lovely. That said, I can't deny that I am biased towards the amazing LEC edition. For one thing, the Limited Editions Club edition is fully illustrated (and signed) by Edward Bawden! Numerous B&W illustrations as well as color illustrations. Printed letterpress. Like the FS edition the endpages are maps (also has fold-out maps). Gilt top. The translator who includes numerous footnotes is Harry Carter - unfortunately I don't know too much about him, so I can't say how good the translation is. Although in general the LEC were very careful with everything they did, so in principle it should be excellent. A NF copy is somewhere between $200-300. Is it worth $300? The answer is NO - it's worth more like $800! Seriously, to produce something like this today (letterpress)... phew, I'd say it's a $1000+ per book project. The fact that it's ridiculously underpriced is something all bibliophiles should use to their advantage! Also, there's the Heritage Press edition which is similar, but in two volumes sans the signature and the price for that is so mind-bogglingly low that I don't even know what to say. The FS edition is a bit larger, although I have no problem reading my LEC copy. By the way, if anyone has/will get copies of both the LEC and FS I would love to hear you thoughts. Enjoy the pics :)


chops monkey junction "width=640"

I have both the EP Landmark edition, the text of which is identical to the trade edition, translated by Andrea Purvis, and the Robin Waterfield trade edition. As others have noted in this thread, the Landmark edition is remarkable in its scope because of its maps/illustrations/notes/glossary and 21 essays.

But I wanted to compare the translations themselves. Not knowing Greek, I compared several passages and came away with the general impression that Purvis sounds more literal and compact while Waterfield sounds more contemporary. Although both read easily and have the same meaning, there is definitely a difference in style. As an example, I’ve copied below the very first paragraph from each translation.

Purvis: “Herodotus of Halicarnassus here presents his research so that human events do not fade with time. May the great and wonderful deeds—some brought forth by the Hellenes, others by the barbarians—not go unsung; as well as the causes that led them to make war on each other.”

Waterfield: “Here are presented the results of the enquiry carried out by Herodotus of Halicarnassus. The purpose is to prevent the traces of human events from being erased by time, and to preserve the fame of the important and remarkable achievements produced by both Greeks and non-Greeks; among the matters covered is, in particular, the cause of the hostilities between Greeks and non-Greeks.”

Which translation you prefer is, as always, a personal decision.

>81 jroger1: nice, and here is the LEC translation

Here are set forth the researches of Herodotus of Halicarnassus that men's actions may not in time be forgotten nor things great and wonderful, accomplished whether by Greeks or barbarians, go without report, nor, especially, the cause of the wars between one and the other.

I'm a novice at all this, but I prefer the LEC translation.

The Waterfield translation sounds like a high school essay, especially the "the purpose is to prevent..." part, along with the incongruous repetition of "Greek and non-Greeks" towards the end of the quote.

Purvis is a close second.

>81 jroger1:, >82 astropi: Comparing the 3 translations above with the Greek text:
Purvis: I daresay too dramatic compared to the original. Doesn't sound like the Greek Herodotus.
Waterfield: Closer to home than Purvis, but it does sound more academic - translates "barbarians" as "non-Greeks" (which is what Greeks assumed of anyone not speaking Greek, so not inaccurate in a contemporary sense)
LEC: The prose here is the closest to the original, in my eyes this is the most accurate translation of the specific extract.

>83 U_238:
I'm a novice at all this, but I prefer the LEC translation. The Waterfield translation sounds like a high school essay, especially the "the purpose is to prevent..." part, along with the incongruous repetition of "Greek and non-Greeks" towards the end of the quote.

I'm a novice at this too, but was interested in what you had to say, not least you're the first reviewer I agree with on this! I bought the Oxford World Classics paperback (Waterfield) a while ago given all the recommendations, but found it rather soulless to read - as >81 jroger1: says, more contemporary - but that doesn't read right to me for a book that is as old as it is.

I've now bought a copy of the Everyman Classics Histories - the mid-19th century translation by Rawlinson. It may have its faults (some reviewers dismiss it almost without comment), but almost instantly, I loved the flow and feel of the language. It just felt right. And I have read reviews that note that it reflects Herodotus's own rhythmic style, and others that say it's actually quite a good version. I do also like the Everyman style and value - their editions are generally so readable in handling.

First para for comparison:
These are the researches of Herodotus of Helicarnassus, which he publishes in the hope of thereby preserving from decay the remembrance of what men have done, and of preventing the great and wonderful actions of the Greeks and the Barbarians from losing their due meed of glory; and withal to put on record what were their grounds of feud.

Love that meed!
(BTW am still intending to get a copy of the Landmark version for all the extras! That LEC does look a beauty too).

>80 astropi:

The most common flaw being a uniformly sunned spine - if one is willing to put up with this it is possible to find an otherwise fine or at least NF copy for closer to $100 with patience.

Which being said - I (also) hope the FS edition brings much joy to at least 750 people!

>83 U_238: Agree (subjectively!).

>80 astropi: Thank you so much for enabling me! I looked on Abe and grabbed a near fine copy (no 600) in slipcase and signed by Bawden in his beautiful italic hand (and none of your tipped-in malarkey either) for only £150. Such a treat. There is another copy still there for £95 but without slipcase and not such good condition and as you say, any number of the 2 volume edition starting at £20.

I already have the brown 2006 FS edition, but was tempted by the LE. Having actual Bawden illustrations rather than 'inspired by Bawden ' - and so many of them - has settled matters for me.

>87 red_guy: my pleasure!
Truly, the LEC is priced far below it's actual value, and it is one of my all-time favorites.

The A2 spread brochure for The Histories by Herodotus is now available for perusal on the FSD wiki here.

For those early purchasers of this edition who have now had it for a few months, has the slipcase loosened at all? Mine is so tight it literally took two people to remove (gravity alone was not nearly enough) and after the first (and so far, only) removal, there was already mild to moderate rubbing and leather wear on three edges of the book. If it doesn’t loosen, I may have to store without the slipcase or just never remove it (and what’s the point of that then?) because of the damage the “protective” slipcase is causing to the volume.

>90 ChampagneSVP: Did you consider wrapping the book in Mylar before putting it into the slipcase. It won't make much difference in tightness, but should prevent rubbing.

The title of this topic makes me chuckle.

>91 ubiquitousuk: Are you sure adding mylar won't just make it tighter?

>91 ubiquitousuk:
I didn’t but there’s no way the wrap wouldn’t just shred or wrinkle and refuse to slide in as I tried to put the book back in the case. It’s the tightest one I’ve ever seen. I’m not exaggerating when I say it took both me and my husband, one holding the case, one holding the book, two full minutes of struggling to coax it out! And now I’m scared to put it back in.

>92 U_238:
It gets your hopes up, doesn’t it?!

>91 ubiquitousuk:
>93 ChampagneSVP:

I would agree that it's the tightest fit of any Folio I've known. I truly cannot see it fitting back into the case with an extra layer, even one as thin as Mylar. I managed to extricate it, then left it a few days knowing it would be difficult to get it back. I succeeded eventually but I think when it comes to reading it I'll have to leave it out until I'm finished. The leather is gorgeous but I believe will be easily damaged with constant ins-and-outs. Currently considering if there's any safe way to expand the slipcase. Half a millimetre should he a help.

>93 ChampagneSVP: interestingly enough, there's a thread about this back from 2015 :)
https://www.librarything.com/topic/192721

>96 astropi:
Thanks! Lots of folks with the same problem but apparently no solution yet.

Thinking of buying so thought I’d see how many left in stock.........85!!!!

>98 LoveAlice: that could mean that there are only 85 left of the limitation of 750 copies, but it could also mean that 200 or so are, of which only 85 are currently available for sale and immediate dispatch. It's not like Folio marketing department to restrain themselves with 'over two-thirds' sold when the fraction sold is actually far higher, though of course, they may just have not been paying attention :)

>99 cronshaw: you maybe correct, otherwise they would have had a counter on there....thanks!

It hurts everytime I read "HeroTotus"

>101 drasvola: It is hard on the retina. I'm confident one of our new administrators will shortly amend it :)

>101 drasvola: I hadn't noticed and now I can't unsee it...

>101 drasvola:
>103 DanGoddard98:

Fixed, with abject apologies. I do know better, honest ...

>102 cronshaw:

It was one of the new administrators who perpetrated the calamity.

A book, everyone should read.

>101 drasvola: I missed "HeroTotus"?? Now I feel completely left out... can we go back and unfix it, for just a little bit :)

>106 astropi:

Yes, one gets used to the oddest things...

>80 astropi: thanks for those images; they enabled me by a circuitous route (via the George Macy forum of LT and then the GM imagery website) to purchase the Heritage Press edition. Like the author of the Herodotus Histories thread of the GM imagery wordpress site, I too prefer the look of the two-volume HP set over the more expensive original Limited Editions Club version; not only must having the work in two volumes rather than one be easier to handle and read, but the striking binding design of the HP edition is so much more Bawden, whose artwork here is magnificent. A fine, seemingly unread set in slipcases with sandglass insert cost me £50 including postage from the U.S., and I'm definitely feeling in excess of £50 worth of delight :)

>108 cronshaw: Congrats, that looks gorgeous and I may try to now look for a copy!

As to the other users here, what are your thoughts on the Folio limited edition? The classics have always been a favorite of mine and the book looks gorgeous, I just keep going back and forth because of the Landmark series. I'm sure it will sell out soon so need to act relatively soon.

>108 cronshaw: I'm glad you're happy! Everyone has different tastes, and I personally do not care for the Heritage Press cover. I think the spine is fine, but the cover art just is not appealing. The LEC cover as you noted is not Bawden but is really classy, so I can appreciate that. Also the LEC slipcase interestingly enough has a beautiful design by Bawden, and why the Heritage Press did not use that for the cover art I don't know... alas. I will add that the LEC edition is easy to hold and read, what typically makes them more expensive is the limitation number and signature.

>108 cronshaw:

Congratulations on your acquisition, Russell. I'm a big fan of Bawden. You got a real bargain there.

I have the Folio LE and really like it. I like the full leather binding, the color of the leather, the art style, and the translation they chose is my favorite. It is quite a tome though! I think it's the most massive book I own.

>111 folio_books: Not sure if it's a real bargain, Glenn, since postage alone was £20, but I'm very happy with it. I've a few Heritage Press volumes and have to say I'm generally very fond of them. They have a certain 20th century charm that appeals to this analogue-headed bibliophile. I know you collect only FS, but I'm sure there are some HP editions you'd be smitten by if you saw them :)

>113 cronshaw: In my opinion the LEC is still the best "bang for your bucks" of any fine press! Over the past few years, some of their books are finally getting the respect they deserve among collectors and have gone up substantially in price. Still, overall a real bargain. Do you have a favorite LEC or Heritage?

>114 astropi: I don't have many, but of the few I have, the Great Gatsby (perfect illustrations, binding design and reading size) has to be my favourite LEC, and Herodotus my favourite HP (certainly my most expensive HP to date). While I do have a few limited editions and fine press volumes, I'm more a reader than a fine press collector, I'm not especially fussed about signatures or limitations for example, so the fact that some well-designed Heritage Press volumes are available on the secondary market for little more than the cost of paperbacks I find extraordinary and wonderful!

>113 cronshaw:

As you know I rarely comment on books which are not published by Folio but I took a long look at that one, since you recommended it. £50 including postage from the US - for such a beautiful book, how can that not be a bargain?. I consider the Folio LE to be a bargain and I wouldn't swap it, but it was/is over six times as expensive.

>109 Joshbooks1: I just keep going back and forth because of the Landmark series.

There's an easy solution to that one - have both. I have the LE and complement it with the paperback Landmark Herodotus, for all the additional information.

Or you can always go for the gold and get the Nonesuch edition of Herodotus as well.

>113 cronshaw: Thanks for the enablement, I ended up ordering a set as well for about the same price! I think the FS LE looks gorgeous but wouldn’t pay that much and not really an LE person.

Hopefully our discussion about the LEC and HP books has done a bit of enabling! It looks like very few copies are left on the secondary market at this point so these gems have found a good home :)

ps I found 4 HP copies and 1 LEC on the secondary market and that is it! Interestingly enough, 3/4 are from UK sellers.

I have just been informed that the last available LEC Herodotus has been claimed by another member of this forum! Wonderful :)

Looks like this edition sold out relatively quickly. Successful product from FS perspective. The smaller limitations seem to be working well for them. Too expensive for what you get for my tastes plus I have no confidence that the FS would be able to deliver it to me undamaged. Also it's hard to justify another edition since I have the LEC, Landmark, Oxford trade edition of Waterfield's translation, and the Allen Press extract.

>121 kdweber:
What’s your opinion about the Allen Press Egypt?

>122 SebRinelli: I love the Allen Press and will buy almost any edition they put out if I can find it for a decent price. That said, actually reading a book that was printed in Unciala is not fun. This edition is short and thus even with the horrid typeface was a quick read. The design is beautiful. I'll never read this copy again but I might show it off to others that enjoy beautiful books. To be frank, I don't look at my LEC anymore either. I tend to reference either my Waterfield or Landmark editions.

I discovered Herodotus from watching The English Patient. Never looked back.

>124 LesMiserables:

That I must watch again, I might have missed it when I watched the film for the first time. What a great film!

>125 ironjaw: yes, he carried it around, his only possession.

Low stock 43 left!

so I had a great idea to wait and see what was in the summer sale before deciding on the Herodotus, but now, with only 24 copies left, looks like my hand will be forced, as I don't think this will make it until July!! maybe not even next week!

just purchased one with 6 left, so i expect this will sell out in next 24 hours

Last one remaining. I’m hovering the add to cart button, but I don’t think it’d be my kind of read.

>130 Nerevarine: I was hovering for a while, but then I saw an advert for it at the back of Slightly Foxed which I took as a sign (in my normal life I am the least superstitious person you can find, FAD does things to you!)

personally I decided I would rather regret having it than not, so take the plunge now while there is still time!!

Sold out!

Yes! Another bout of FOMO successfully defeated!

This is one I desired but being Greek I decided there wasn't much to gain - I settled for Gargantua instead.

Also happy to say that the amazing Limited Editions Club edition - designed and signed by Edward Bawden - also sold out entirely on the second-hand market, and perhaps this thread had something to do with that :)

For anyone who missed out, Byblos has one on eBay for £800. I don’t think Herodotus’ giant ants and tangents are worth than much.

>135 astropi: Still immensely grateful that you put me on to that!

>136 behemoththecat: Haha or just get a Landmark Herodotus for $22 which is superior to any Herodotus edition in every way except for binding. I eventually passed on the Folio edition since I would never read it and it would solely be for aesthetic purposes. Landmark is doing Polybius next and I really hope they do Livy soon thereafter.

>138 Joshbooks1: That is what enabled me to pass and defeat FOMO as well. How can it compare to the Landmark series?

I'm glad to hear that the FS LE edition sold out. It looks like a very nice and high quality book. I passed on it because I am satisfied with the two editions I own: the LEC and the Nonesuch Press.

>138 Joshbooks1: Definitely disagree that the Landmark edition is "superior to any Herodotus edition in every way". Perhaps the Landmark has more maps, and scholarly references. However, the LEC and FS version are not meant to be used primarily for scholarly work, they are meant to be beautiful works of art which frankly the Landmark edition is not.

>141 astropi: to be fair, the full quote was “superior to any Herodotus edition in every way except for binding”, which acknowledges that the Landmark isn’t a “work of art” as you put it. I don’t think the Landmark edition is limited to use “primarily for scholarly work” either. The maps and illustrations help any reader visualize locations and follow the narrative.

>138 Joshbooks1: any text which is translated can never have a definitive edition in my opinion, it’s always worth having more. The presentation of the Landmark is the gold standard though.

Incidentally, I haven’t read the Landmark Herodotus yet, but the introduction to the Thucydides explains that it was based on an existing English translation due to budget constraints. Robert Sadler paid for someone to ‘correct’ spellings into American versions. This is his prerogative of course given he paid for it, but is it really so distressing for Americans to read of rumours and colours, rather than rumors and colors?!

>142 ChampagneSVP: I would say the LEC and FS have superior binding, paper, illustrations, design, typography... so apart from that perhaps you could call the Landmark "superior" although I rather fail to see the meaning here.

>144 astropi: And don't forget longevity.

It seems strange to have to make this argument on this forum, of all places. My Penguin paperback Complete Essays of Montaigne is obviously far superior to Folio's current Essays, containing as it does all the essays, a lengthy introduction and extensive notes. Any yet, I know which one I'd rather take down from my shelf and read. There's a place for both.

>138 Joshbooks1: solely be for aesthetic purposes. True for almost any Folio edition I'd imagine.

>144 astropi: Didn't mean to offend and both the FS and LEC LE are beautiful books - I understand why people are excited by both. It's a little different comparing the FS binding, paper, design, etc., with shipping to the US plus taxes comes out to be well over $500, vs a hardcover Landmark edition which I purchased for $25 when it initially was released, so, what, >20x the price? Landmark doesn't have all the pretty bells and whistles but instead maps and footnotes on nearly every page. To me anyway, for many classical authors, especially Herodotus, this is a must since things get quite confusing. He was the father of history but is all over the place and at times it is impossible discerning fact vs fiction. I found the footnotes and maps to be incredibly useful and it makes for a much better read than say a Penguin or Oxford edition where you constantly keep flipping to the front and back of the book.

>145 Levin40: Levin40: Again I don't mean to disparage the FS edition, it's gorgeous. My two main interests are literature and classical history so this book has more interest to me than most Folio editions, however, I like to read my Folio books and personally I wouldn't for the Herodotus edition since Landmark Herodotus is a superior read. The FS edition would sit on my shelf and I would never crack the binding. If Folio Society had done the Landmark version with illustrations I probably would have paid double.

My initial comment was in reply to someone trying to sell their sold out FS Herodotus for well over asking price and was to more tell others who missed out or didn't have the funds that there are more options. For readability, maybe even superior options.

>146 Joshbooks1: you shouldn’t need to make a case for caring about the content of the book.

There are many beautiful books that I would never buy due to flawed or inaccurate translations, incompleteness, bowdlerization, lack of critical apparatuses (for some titles), etc.

There’s an Allen Press title by one of my favorite authors (Thomas Mann) that uses Sanskrit decorations… but the Sanskrit is meaningless! I consider this the fine press equivalent of getting a Chinese character tattoo without knowing what it means. (They do the same thing with other “foreign” scripts used decoratively, such as writing Hebrew upside down.)

While I don’t think there are any major shortcomings of this sort in the FS Herodotus, having all the maps conveniently inline in the manner of the Landmark edition is a major benefit when actually reading the book (even just casually; I’m not talking about scholarly use necessarily), despite the lower construction standards in all other respects.

(I sold my hardcover copy of the Landmark edition a while back, but I believe it did have a solid sewn binding and probably archival-quality paper, to appeal to academic libraries.)

This was a strange LE for me. It should have been right up my alley really. It is one of my favorite books of any genre (I have the Rawlinson translation and the Landmark for the maps), it is my favorite publisher, and it is one of those massive tomes which I actually love. Yet somehow I was unmoved by this offering. There is something distinctly unspecial about it that I can't identify. The price is a deterrent but not a barrier as I have bought the Gargantua and Pantagruel LE without blinking. There is something about this Herodotus that is maybe bland or uninspired or something. I really don't know what it is. Does anyone else feel this way? I feel like this should have been an immediate buy for me but now that it's gone I feel no regret.

>148 L.Bloom: I'm in the same boat as you and am quite shocked with myself that I didn't pounce on this since I love classical history and there was no urgency to buy it and I still feel no remorse, which is again strange. I am happy for those who bought it though and seem to love the edition.

Isn't Gargantua and Pantagruel gorgeous? I also recently purchased this and it's my favorite since, maybe, Birds Drawn for John Gould? I love everything about it and is certainly in my top 5 Folio Limited Editions. I hope Folio goes back to making large, expensive, beautifully done LE's which they seem to have gotten away from since this book was published.

>148 L.Bloom: I’m the same. I considered it and considered it, but now that it’s gone, I’m strangely okay about it. I should have bought it, but something held me back—maybe the teal? The lack of letterpress? I’m not sure. I jumped for the Poetic Edda and Aeneid LEs (among others) but not this one. Maybe the huge number of choices on the secondary market made the fear of missing out less potent.

>148 L.Bloom: I’m on the flip side. I bought it but I’m lukewarm on it and am considering offloading it. If I thought Thucydides was in the works maybe I’d reconsider but I’m trying not to keep books I won’t likely read anymore and for reading I’d go with the Landmark.

I bought a copy from abe, was 439.36$ with tax and shipment and described as fine. It was not in fine condition of course, had significant rubbing of the spine and front almost all over, presumably from very tight slipcase, so I returned the book, successfully.
It was bigger then I anticipated and leather felt great but.. the pages were not opening flat and I could not appreciate the illustrations fully, and if the binding is so prone to rubbing I would be afraid to get it out. So I decided against buying the book in the future. I recently had read the Landmark edition and sure this new one would be more of a collectible, but still one wants to have an opportunity to read and enjoy the collectibles.

>148 L.Bloom: Agreed. I have the trade Hardback Landmark and the LEC editions. I also have the OU trade hardback with Robin Waterfield's translation so this should have been an easily justifiable swap but it just didn't call to me. I too like the Dore illustrated Gargantua and Pantagruel though I wish the FS could have delivered it to me in adequate packaging so I wouldn't have a dented up slipcase.

>151 ChampagneSVP: See that's my only reservation. I love Thucydides and find him much more enjoyable than Herodotus. The latter has several great passages but a lot of the book can be skipped and one isn't missing too much. Thucydides is one of the best and it's a shame he died before finishing. Xenophon tried but clearly lacked the skill of his predecessor.

Also if they did Thucydides it would be interesting to see if they would stop there and if not what else to publish? We'll see.

>143 Uppernorwood:
This is his prerogative of course given he paid for it, but is it really so distressing for Americans to read of rumours and colours, rather than rumors and colors?!
Well, unless it's an American book, I find reading of rumors and colors quite distressing - to me it's misspelling - so can understand why an American might think the other way round.

I would have bought this but I have the 1935 Nonesuch Press edition with the amazing annotations by AW Lawrence and woodcuts by V LeCampion, which for me is the definitive Herodotus. I also have the Easton Press Landmark edition. I just couldn’t justify another Herodotus, as nice as this edition looked.

Well, a survey has just arrived in my inbox inviting votes on which of eighteen listed classical authors Folio should publish next - "We are concentrating on Classical works of history, politics and philosophy, and as such we have omitted Homer, Virgil, Ovid and the dramatists from this list."

The options are Aristotle, Arrian, Caesar, Catullus, Cicero, Hesiod, Horace, Livy, Lucan, Lucretius, Plato, Pliny the Elder, Plutarch, Seneca, Socrates (?!), Suetonius, Thucydides and Xenophon.

>157 terebinth: Very Funny to see Socrates in that list. I've noticed that FS staff aren't very knowledgeable when it comes to classical works. They have made some huge errors before, presenting Aesop's Fables on their website.

>158 Lukas1990:

I think there are arguments to be made that the Socrates option might be a collection of Plato, Aristophanes, Xenophon, etc works regarding Socrates. But such a book might be better as an SE rather than an LE.

>157 terebinth: I hope that whatever they end up choosing becomes a SE as well as a LE, which is unlikely I fear.

I like the classics but I have never been tempted by a FS LE of them.

>160 behemoththecat: I like the classics but I have never been tempted by a FS LE of them.

Me neither. I have my ideal Plutarch (eight volume Shakespeare Head Press limited edition from 1928), the five volumes of Jowett's translation of Plato, several other authors on the list fairly well covered, and the five volume Medici Society Plotinus, hence or otherwise I'm finding it hard to imagine being swayed into purchasing a classical Folio LE.

Since they have made the survey public by posting it on Twitter, I don’t think sharing it here is an issue.
Here’s a link to it: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/social-classics

Closes at midnight (UK), June 27th.

Went with Thucydides, Plutarch (maybe the lives will be properly arranged this time) and Livy.

I went with Cicero, Aristotle and Plato. I sincerely hope they put either a SE or LE of Cicero together. Easily my favorite among the list. And one of my favorites in general.

Thucydides for me. I don't have a preference for any of the others as a Limited Edition.

I went with Livy, Cicero and Caesar.

A complete set of all surviving Livy would be great.

Great to see that they intend to do LEs of classical works.
I went with Thucydides, Pliny and Livy, but will be happy with any of the ones on the list, although I have several of them as SEs already...

Plato... I love Plato, BUT, there are plenty of fine press Plato to pass around.
Give me Arrian, Catullus, Hesiod... and make mine letterpress!! I know, it probably won't happen, but that's want I want.

>157 terebinth: Though I've bought plenty of classical works from the FS I didn't receive a survey. I wonder if they only sent it to buyers of the Herodotus LE? I've already got nice editions of most of their choices with the exception of no Hesiod and only Loeb editions of Suetonius and Lucan.

Hesiod my first, second and third choices

>170 kdweber:

I've no idea why I was among the chosen, unless the criterion was long-term LE purchasers who haven't bought much lately and so might have some ready cash building up! I didn't buy the Herodotus, and the survey includes a question as to whether the prospective buyer did - the version I received only differs from the "social" one in post 162 above in not asking whether one has bought from the FS before.

Arrian, Hesiod, and Seneca (tough choice on the latter between him and Cattulus)

I went with Aristotle, Plato and Caesar but did also note the odd Socrates. I am although a bit confused as I would rather have them concentrate on other works. Focusing on works other than Homer, Ovid, and Virgil would otherwise only appeal to classicist and academics and such enthusiast alike? I do like my classics but not as a LE

>170 kdweber:

I bought the Herodotus (and other classics, as well as other Limited Editions) and didn't get the survey either. Which doesn't make a lot of sense, does it, but then that's quite typical for FS.

As for excluding certain authors: I would actually enjoy it if they'd publish editions of Homer in a style and size that would fit to the LE Aeneid.

>170 kdweber:

Didn't purchase Herodotus and I received the survey via email. It's probably random.

I think FS must sometimes send marketing emails out in batches for whatever reason. I bought the Herodotus LE and haven't received this survey yet, but I expect it'll turn up in the next few days. I didn't receive the 75th Anniversary survey email until a couple of days after it was first posted on here either, and I'm sure that's been the case for some other emails mentioned here too (and vice versa, where I've received the email but seen others mentioning that they've yet to receive theirs). They usually turn up eventually, in my experience.

The survey was posted on their twitter this morning:

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/social-classics

>170 kdweber: I don’t think so , as one of the questions was whether you had bought the Herodotus so it wasn’t aimed only at people they knew had bought that LE. The survey link was also posted on their Instagram & Twitter too so doesn’t seem to be targeted particularly.

I received the email today, asking me to help by voting for three. I bought Herodotus’ Histories and other LE’s. It could very well be random though.

I particularly would love to see a book by Socrates, I applaud Folio for this exclusive. I heard Plato got the publication delayed after Socrates wrote that Plato was his worst pupil and got all his ideas wrong…

My choice was Cicero, Hesiod and Thucydides.

>181 Hamwick: LOL

>179 reticular: Thanks for the link. I did complete the survey with Hesiod, Suetonius, and Lucan.

>173 ultrarightist: Check out the University of California Press 2005 edition of Catullus.

>181 Hamwick: well that’s Socrates for you: a lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he’s pissed

>184 Uppernorwood:

Plato's half a crate of whiskey every day puts a new spin on their disagreements though.

I did order the Herodotus LE but did not get the survey except for seeing it on the Facebook Group. FS also posted it directly on Facebook. From that survey link I chose Caesar, Cicero and Thucydides.

I'm not sure where to post this, didn't want to make a new thread.

I recently received the Landmark Histories, and Creators, Conquerors & Citizens from Folio. I am relatively familiar with the Iliad and Odyssey from reading both 15+ years ago.

What should I read first, the Landmark Histories or CC&C? I see benefits to starting with each (source material then overview versus overview and then into the source)!

I also have lined up the next Landmark Thucydides.

>187 simbae: if you haven’t read much Ancient Greek history before I’d definitely start with CC&C. Herodotus and Thucydides are the main source material for two important periods of CC&C, so will be a lot more in depth and have less overall context (although the Landmark notes and Appendices are superb).

Herodotus also has hundreds of pages on Egyptian, Persian and other regions. The Greek parts don’t really come in until about two thirds of the way through!

>188 Uppernorwood: Great, will do and much appreciated on the advice. I amateurly read Greek history online but haven't read any published ancient Greek history books. Will start with the nice overview of CC&C, then into the source materials with that greater context.

For anyone interested in Herodotus, he is the subject of this week’s ‘In Our Time’ programme on Radio 4. Available on podcast etc. I only caught part of it and am totally unqualified on the subject, but it might well be of interest to the readers of this thread!

>190 jranstead: In Our Time is a great repository.

Is anyone else able to add this to their basket on the website? It says 10 left - I thought it sold out months back?!

>192 behemoththecat: Yes me too. They must of found some left in there warehouse. A nice second chance for those who regretted not getting it.

>192 behemoththecat:

It's not an unknown phenomenon with Folio - "finding" extra copies of books deemed sold out down the back of the sofa. My advice is grab it while you can - they don't last very long.

>194 folio_books: I will put it in my letter to Santa.

>195 assemblyman: Hopefully your letter to Santa gets there quick

>196 PrestigeWorldWide: Maybe if I just wish hard enough for that last one left (which is all that is left) he will get the message :)

>197 assemblyman: Maybe if I just wish hard enough for that last one left (which is all that is left)

Goodness. Well I did say they wouldn't last very long ...

>197 assemblyman: I hope you wished hard enough - all gone now!

Son of a