A quick introduction and question about calibrating expectations for condition of LEC books

Hello George Macy Devotees,

I have been reading this forum avidly for the past week or so as I find my interest draw towards collecting some LEC books. I wanted to introduce myself (hello!) and pose a general question about the condition of LEC books.

I have been collecting 'nice' books for the last few years and have mainly focused on Folio Society and Franklin Library. With those two publishers, I have gradually built up an understanding about what kind of condition one can expect or hope for (and hold out for!). Generally, I am very fussy about the condition and for Folio Society almost always hold out for pristine unread copies, including the slipcase, if possible. For Franklin Library it hasn't been too difficult to find plenty of still sealed/boxed books or copies from the earliest years of production that look as if they were never handled.

Now I turn my attention to LEC books I find myself somewhat back to square one, and unsure if I can maintain those standards due to the age and relative scarcity of the books. Obviously I don't expect to find LECs still in sealed boxes but do I need to recalibrate my expectations for condition in general, even for the more modern (1960s, 1970s and onwards) LECs?

As an example, I would love to acquire a copy of "A Raw Youth" by Dostoevsky, (or indeed any of his other works). Can I expect to still find one in 'mint' or 'very fine' condition? The closest I have found so far is as follows:

- Slipcase in (I would say) 'near fine' condition with a few light marks to the label, a couple of rubs to the side panels, and a faint crease to one corner.
- Books look unread, still in intact glassine wrappers, with only obvious flaw being just a little faint grey discolouration of the page block next to the spine. There is also a little sagging of the page block, which I assume is inevitable for a book of this age, unless stored horizontally?

So, can I hold out for better, or should I be snapping the proverbial hand off?

I want to find the right balance between practicing patience, enjoying the hobby, and obtaining copies that I will be pleased with. Generally I am always happy to pay a (fair) premium for a book in the best condition. I am UK based so have been looking on eBay, Abe, and a variety of rare/antiquarian bookseller websites.

Could anyone comment on this title and on LECs in general? Do you still hold out for the very best, and if so have you sometimes regretted letting books slip through your fingers due to a few minor flaws?

Thank you!

I am similar to you in that I'm very new to LEC, and very interested in LEC, and I am sensitive when it comes to the physical quality of the books I'm considering. We're all sensitive to that, it's just a matter of to what extent, and that's where personal preference intersects with experience to develop your knowledge of and appreciation of LEC books (or any other older fine press book). And experience of course comes through trial and error, but maybe I, and the others here who are much more experienced, can help flatten your learning curve.

I only recently took the plunge with several purchases: Tess of the d'Urbervilles, Sons and Lovers, The Martian Chronicles, Fahrenheit 451 and (the somewhat notorious) Brave New World. The last three I have already received. These were all purchased through eBay. With all of them, I had many options and price ranges to choose from (including on Abe and Biblio), and the conditions seemed to generally match the asking prices. Fortunately, the books I have received (with one exception, see below) have been what I expected and I am pleased.

I am particular about having books that display nicely. I can live with a little bit of wear, but I won't purchase anything that is so beaten up and/or dirty/faded/discolored that it will always be a disappointing distraction whenever I even glance at it. With that as a starting point, it's simply a matter of comparing the acceptable options (photos, price, etc.) and deciding if I want to pull the trigger. Being a Folio Society buyer for years has helped me to gauge what I believe is good value, and then this message board is often a valuable resource. I appreciate the qualities that make LEC books special - the original illustrations, letterpress, quality materials. And the fact such books can be purchased for roughly what a standard FS sells for (and sometimes much less) is a bit amazing, and helps make LEC books such a pleasure to collect.

It can be challenging to find an LEC in acceptable condition, at a price I'm willing to pay. That's also part of the fun - the hunt. One bit of advice I can give you is to not fear feeling regret over "missing out" on a particular book. There will always be similar books available. So stick to your guns when it comes to your personal standards and the price you're willing to pay. You seem like a discerning book collector, so I encourage you to be patient and avoid snapping up an LEC simply so you can own that title as an LEC.

One other title I recently purchased was Winesburg, Ohio, which I'm now returning because there was a pencil scribble inside that the seller never mentioned (and it was supposed to also have the newsletter inlaid, and that was missing). Otherwise, the book was near-fine and I would have been happy to keep it, but it wasn't what I thought I was buying. My point is, I know I can buy this title again in the future, at a similar price, so I felt no need to "settle" for this.

As for A Raw Youth, just doing a quick survey on eBay, there's about a $100 spread in the options. There is an $85 option that seems very promising. However, there is only one photo. So I would ask the seller for more photos. Don't be shy about asking for many photos. Any respectable seller should be happy to accommodate you.

I hope this has been helpful. Let us know how things turn out with the Dostoevsky, and anything else you get.

Hello! Welcome to the madhouse :)

This issue is complicated by the fact that you live in the UK, making the shipping cost of acquiring an LEC not $4-8 for Media Mail in the US. (If I still lived in my native UK, I could not afford to be an LEC collector.) Due to the cost of Airmail, the cost of the LEC will be 60-70 percent of your total spend on the item; what is more, it would be uneconomic to return a book for being not as described. Therefore, it makes sense to be more selective than us US-based collectors need to be, and to pay whatever premium you are comfortable with for a -- verified through photos and a fuller description -- Fine copy (though NF is sometimes the best you will ever find, for any money).

One way to obtain a fuller description from an Abe seller without seeming to cast doubt on the veracity of their description is to phrase your inquiry along the lines of "Is the book STILL (obviously no need to capitalize!) free of heavy handling wear? Has any foxing developed SINCE you uploaded the description to Abe?" That gives the bookseller the opportunity to revise (usually downwards) his/her condition grading without losing face.

More to follow. And, again, welcome! We are few in number, but ample in passion!

Thanks for bringing up this topic as I am a new collector of LEC's. By the way, I love your username, The Garden of Forking Paths may be my favorite short story of all time.

>1 GardenOfForkingPaths:

A good rule of thumb is that if it's an LEC bound or quarter-bound in sheepskin you're going to have to make some serious compromises. The sheepskin they used has for the most part not stood the test of time. In some cases this is true, though to a lesser degree, even when LEC used goatskin. From about 1970 on they appear to have upped the quality of their leather. Another positive -- LEC often used exceptionally strong types of cloth.

For LEC's produced before 1940 it's much harder to get copies which include the Monthly Letter and a bit harder to get intact slipcases. If the glassine dust cover is still present and intact that's usually a good sign.

For certain LEC's like The Iliad, Odyssey, Sinbad, Emerson's Essays etc. you can almost always expect the spine to be sunned. I've never seen a copy of 'The Seven Voyages of Sinbad' with a Fine spine.

There are a couple of LECs with Eastern style bindings. These tend to be a bit more worn.

You will often seen plate/illustration offsetting as well, but this is not something that can not be helped and shouldn't really affect your buying decision. I don't recall any LEC that made use of tissue guards, not that tissue guards are a guarantee against offsetting anyways.

Thank you everyone for your kind welcome and your responses. I'm delighted to be here.

>2 johnbean9:

Thank you for your excellent advice. I really relate to what you said about how knowing the imperfections prior to purchase makes all the difference. I find the buying experience sometimes seems to permeate my feelings about the book, and if I think I have been misled then somehow it can affect the whole enterprise, whereas those same imperfections known in advance (and even at the same price) might not be as much of a deal breaker. I'm admitting this to myself for the first time, so this is a kind of therapy :)

>3 NYCFaddict:

Exactly - the shipping cost is a very important factor. I don't begrudge paying $30-$40 in shipping if it's a book I will really love. Strangely, eBay's global shipping program often seems to work out the best value because it already includes any taxes/customs duty.

I think what you and johnbean9 said about the photos is key, and I like your questioning tactic. It's amazing how vexed some sellers can become by very polite requests to see photos! A couple of days ago I enquired about a LEC copy of "A Lost Lady" on eBay and the seller immediately declined to provide additional photos, essentially saying they were a professional seller, the book was listed as fine and that was that. In those circumstances, when there's no opportunity for me to return the book if opinions differ, there's not much more to do than politely walk away. I hate to make anyone feel that I don't trust their descriptions, but it's just a case of needing to be cautious and a little more selective, just as you say.

>4 dwursten:

One of my favourites too! Sadly, the LEC edition of Ficciones is a little out of my price-range, but the Folio Society edition of "Labyrinths" is very nice!

>5 MobyRichard:

Thank you! Brilliant information and exactly the kind of thing that will help me calibrate my expectations when I encounter these particular books.

So do you all have a fair bit of latitude in terms of what level of wear you will accept on the slipcases, as long as the books are fine? I know quite often they are just plain boxes with a label on the back, so perhaps I am worrying about them more than I should.

A Lost Lady has tissue guards, as does Far Away and Long Ago. I can't think of any others.

I'm probably less picky than most when it comes to slipcases. But still, if the case is in really bad shape, it would affect my buying decision. I would still consider purchasing if the book were in outstanding shape. It could always be shelved with the book spine facing out if the slipcase spine were the issue. I just got The Age of Innocence and plan to shelve it that way, which I'm fine doing if I didn't pay much for the book (which I didn't in this case). For a higher-end purchase, I would have a hard time dropping serious dough without a good-looking case. Keep in mind, according to others on this board, custom cases can be made for a relatively modest cost. Might be a good course for high-end purchases with ugly cases. And if you search "slipcase" on this board you will find some previous enlightening discussions.

>7 NYCFaddict:. My copies of Sheridan’s The Rivals and the first Don Quixote (1933 have tissue guards, thankfully. The School for Scandal printed earlier suffers from transfer and there is significant transfer on the tissues on my DQ.

Oh yes, you are perfectly correct!

>7 NYCFaddict:
The Education of Henry Adams and The Secret Sharer have tissue guards.

>1 GardenOfForkingPaths:

1. Your desire to find pristine LEC books AND slipcases, many of which are 60 to 90 y.o., is unrealistic. These are not Easton Press or Franklin Library books.

2. Compare apples to apples. If you are interested in a particular LEC book, educate yourself with regard to the condition of this book as listed and described by booksellers on Abebooks.com, both past and present. A particular LEC title in VG+ condition may actually be better than the vast majority of copies whereas in other LEC titles it would be unacceptable.

3. Shipping costs from the U.S will be substantial and must be factored into your purchase.

>12 dlphcoracl:

Especially now, shipping costs could be a real problem. U.S. is starting to see covid cases spike again so who knows what may happen.

>11 kermaier:

Oh yes, you're right. Education of Henry Adams is the only one of those mentioned above that I own, but I should have remembered.

>1 GardenOfForkingPaths: I'm also in the UK. As I'm sure you know, trans-Atlantic shipping cost can usually be kept as low as possible for eBay purchases by buying from sellers who use the Global Shipping Programme. It seems that Biblio also offers expedited shipping, and it can be cheaper overall to buy via Biblio than, say, via Abebooks. Always worth checking.

I have been following a similar path to you recently - fewer purchases from Folio Society and instead buying LEC books. I buy them to read (not a new idea, I realise) and I can tolerate a less-than-perfect slip case as this stays on the shelf while I am reading the book, but want the book itself to be in the best condition I can find.

I'm currently reading (and enjoying) the handsome 1934 LEC 'Adventures of Tyl Ulenspiegl' and this has scuffing to the slipcase, but the book itself is in very good + condition with the main fault being a darkening of the spine. The binding is sound and the pages are clean. For me this is acceptable. The scuffing to the slipcase kept the cost down.

It is great that you even found a copy with an intact slipcase!

Thank you all for your generosity in sharing your experience and expertise. I feel much better equipped now.

>12 dlphcoracl: Thank you for the reality check and sound advice about making sure I am comparing like for like. I do like to have high standards, but as you say it's most important to be realistic, not least for one's own sanity. I have taken this on board.

>15 edgeworn: Yes, great advice. I have used eBay's GSP and Biblio's consolidated shipping program, and it's turned out well. I know there's a lot of criticism about the poor handling that can occur with the Global Shipping Program, but fortunately I haven't experienced this (so far). Good luck with your LEC hunting!

>1 GardenOfForkingPaths: I have a few additional thoughts. For most of these books there were only 1500 printed, some 90 years ago. So expectations have to be tempered. I tend to wrap my good books in mylar so the condition of the slipcase or its absence is of less interest to me. That said, I've found some fine copies which look as if they could have been published last month. Reading the Monthly Letter on such a book is like entering a time machine! The ML is probably more important to me than the slipcase. Having the Google drive copies helps too where the ML is missing.

The Heritage Press did some original books or different editions of some LEC books. These are also worth looking into. Look for New York as the publishing source. Also, a number of the Heritage counterparts are very close to being equal to the LEC version. As mentioned above, the sheepskin LECs have not held up well. "The Ballad of Reading Gaol"> is one where i think the Heritage binding is superior. I'm dithering over getting the LEC "Comus" because i have the Heritage and the printing and Dulac illustration reproductions appear identical.

By and large, I would not buy Easton Press reprints. These come from the Heritage editions but the print and illustration quality is generally not as good. An occasional Deluxe Limited Edition, like their "Salome" where extra effort is put in, may be a respectable alternative.

Great advice. Perhaps we could crowdsource a list of New York era Heritage where the production standards are almost up to LECs with less durable bindings. I would add Eugene Onegin. How about A Sentimental Journey, given the LEC fading issues?

Come to think of it, we already have a thread called When is Heritage superior to LEC, or something like that.

>19 NYCFaddict: I've done some of that work already with my Heritage Press Exclusive list: https://georgemacyimagery.wordpress.com/heritage-press-exclusives/. It might be interesting to expand that with commentary on bindings.

A great resource!

>18 laotzu225: Sage advice on tempering expectations, thank you! I'm learning to be less fussy about the slipcases.

Thanks all all for pointing me towards the Heritage Press titles, I'll be gathering all the information I can from the forum. At the prices I have seen, they really seem like fabulous value.

>23 GardenOfForkingPaths: I may be repeating myself but watch out for later Heritage Press editions with a Connecticut address on the title page. These are later and the quality varies considerably. Heritage New York is a much better bet. Only go with a Connecticut book if you have had a chance to examine it.

Hunting for early Heritage Press books is so much fun. Often times it is harder to find copies of these compared to majority of LEC. Take for example the 1938 HP Crime and Punishment or the 1941 Two Years Before the Mast.

>24 laotzu225:
>25 BuzzBuzzard:

Thanks! I will be careful and make sure I do the necessary research from here on in. I made a slight error a couple of weeks ago and ordered the 1969 edition of "The Moon and Sixpence", not realising it was a reprint of the 1941 edition.

>25 BuzzBuzzard:

Have often looked for a Very Good or Fine 1938 HP Crime and Punishment and 1941 The Moon and Sixpence to no avail. Luckily I have the 1941 Two Years Before the Mast with only a moderately faded spine--meaning the navy blue has faded to a light lavender and has not turned gray, as has virtually every other copy I've seen.

Does anyone know the Sandglass issue for the 1941 The Moon and Sixpence?

>28 kdweber:

Ken, it's 8D as reproduced in Bussacco's Sandglass Companion.

A short epilogue to my original post - I'm pleased to report that I now have a lovely copy of the LEC 'A Raw Youth'.

A wonderful set of books indeed (and a very comfortable size for reading too). In person, I think the cloth binding is quite beautiful. The text and layout is immaculate! I've had a quick peek at a couple of the Eichenberg illustrations, which look absolutely superb, but decided to save them for enjoyment as I arrive at each one during reading.

Overall, I'm delighted. Thanks again to you all for your help getting me started.