Pope says there is no Hell !

Did the Pope really say there is no Hell in a recent interview?

No.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/vatican-claim-pope-denied-hells-existence...

See also posts 21 onwards in this (other) thread.

Are you crediting us with foresight, John? Your (3) is the last post I can see.

My, yes, wouldn't want to drop hell from the menu of obscene religious bullshit.

No, the "this thread" is a link and if you click on it it should take you to another thread in another group. Maybe I should have used a different phrase than "this thread", which I admit can be confusing, but on the other hand these links appear in a different colour to the main text (or at least they do on my laptop) so I thought it would be clear that it was a link. Let me edit it for clarity.

Anyway, here is the whole link: http://www.librarything.com/topic/286451#6431912

Instead of having a Vatican spokesman reply to his alleged denial, the Pope could have personally answered, in the words of Yogi Berra: "I never SAID half of the things I said!"

Seriously, as a non-denominational Christian, I greatly admire Pope Francis.

>5 LolaWalser: Pardon my English, but Hell no! to no Hell! Think of the disorder that would ensue...

>8 theoria:

I know! All bread and no circuses makes for a dull life, let alone afterlife.

But I must say it's amusing, in a morbid way, to see how highly Jaysus-lovers value eternal torment for their fellow humans. Why, a cynic might suppose the little beasts go for it for the pain in the first place.

>9 LolaWalser: Indeed. I would think one would rejoice from learning there’s no Hell from one who would know about such matters (such as the Pope). On the other hand, it would be a little sad if Hell were to go the way of the passenger pigeon. It possesses a rather rich symbolism, even if there was disagreement over its precise location and its operations. Jacques Le Goff, The Birth of Purgatory

Also, what would become of The Hellfire Club?

The Hellfire Club... is other people. :)

There have been various images of "heaven" and "hell" used in the Christian narrative to expore the concept of our existance continuing in some way after death, just as other religious narratives have explored reincarnation, spiritualism, etc. The dominant image of hell, which has often been used as an instrument of control by authority figures in the institutional church, is not the only one.

I think >11 LolaWalser:'s "The Hellfire Club... is other people" has a lot of truth in it. "Heaven" and "hell" are with us now, in how we live our lives and how we relate to other people and them to us, not something to look forward to or fear in the future.

Mind you, Rowan Atkinson's hell is always worth a second look...

I found Alice Turner's The History of Hell interesting.

I don't believe in literal hellfire forever and ever and ever. Hell is not being with God. I can't think of anything worse. God is love but respects our free will. If we choose not to be with God, God honors our choice. Granted that's coming from a Christian perspective.

Modern Family, Season 2, Episode 3:

[On the golf course]
Manny: So you're not worried about getting in trouble? You know, with God?
Jay: Oh, I think he's got bigger things on his plate.
Manny: So you're not worried about hell?
Jay: Let me let you in on a little secret, kid. There is no hell.
Manny: Seriously? No hell? That's fantastic! . . . So everyone just goes to heaven?
Jay: Yep. End of story.
Manny: Even bad people?
Jay: Yeah, they're . . . they're in another section. See, they got this thing figured out. Can I hit this? [Misses putt.] Damn it. You distracted me.
Manny: I didn't say anything.
Jay: I could hear you thinking.
Manny: I'm thinking about this heaven of yours that's full of bad people.
Jay: Not full. The tiniest fraction. They're walled in.
Manny: What if they break out?
Jay: They're surrounded by a lake of fire.
Manny: There are fiery lakes in heaven? This is turning into hell!
Jay: [Misses a short putt.] Tell me about it.

Hell is other people.

Was it not the great Jean-Paul Sartre who said (16)? If so, why are you not citing him. JGL?

I'm in favor of hell. Otherwise, where would we tell people to go?

I must say that Hell always seems to be depicted, in art and literature, as a far more interesting place that Heaven. There's a reason that a lot of people have read The Inferno, fewer have read Purgatorio, and even fewer Paradiso!

"...where would we tell people to go?" (18)

We should not tell people to go ANYWHERE. Least of all to a possibly not-existent place.
It trivializes the concept of a place of punishment, which should survive even if the place itself is non-existent.

..."far more interesting place than heaven." (18)
Well, thats the fault of religious fictionalizers of both alleged locales. (Danteʻs Inferno is perhaps an " interesting" exception.). Even the great Stanley Elkin couldnʻt make hell interesting (in his The Living End). He ended by having God persuaded by hellʻs denizens to give them annihilation -- abolish hell. He introduced his hell by calling it* the classic dysfunctional city.

*quoted from memory, not his exact words, but he did say "dysfunctional city".

I haven't read Matheson's novel, but the film What Dreams May Come borrowed immensely from Inferno. But down to the particular, Ann Neilson's stay there was self-inflicted (or at least based on self absorption). The theologic base of the story sucked, but heaven was represented as a fun and interesting place. Not that I'd be interested in the carnival atmosphere for more than a day.

As a child, Paul Micich's illustrations in The Littlest Angel formed my idea of heaven.

(Against of backdrop of ethereal images, the protagonist owned a grubby box of earthly boy treasures, so I decided that my pets would have to be there for me to be perfectly happy. Problem solved! ;-)

>21 margd: Thank you for reminding me of that book. I loved it.

As a teenager, my ideas of heaven were formed by 1 Corinthians 2:9:

However, as the scripture says,

“What no one ever saw or heard,
what no one ever thought could happen,
is the very thing God prepared for those who love him.”

My teen mind translated that into no matter how wonderful I imagined heaven to be, my dreams and hopes will pale compared to the awesome reality. So for me, too, >21 margd:, I felt sure my pets would be there. I've updated my dream as I've gotten older. Heaven will be like a wonderful cross between a library, coffee shop and club. Lots of comfy chairs. Areas for great conversation where we can talk with each other and people like Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. Quiet areas for contemplation.... And now, since my wife taught me to knit, lots and lots of yarn.

I probably misunderstood the actual meaning of 1 Cor 2:9, but I stand by the principle that because God is love, heaven will be awesome.

Speaking of heaven and needlework:

I have heard that in heaven there will be all the materials you want: cloth, wonderful threads, beads, patterns if you want them and, of course, infinite amounts of time to stitch. And in hell the same. But in hell there are no needles.

>24 MarthaJeanne: But in hell there are no needles

Oh, that is hell! I had a little taste of hell yesterday. I brought my knitting to work on during breaks and lunch. Being new to it, I dropped some stitches. Unfortunately, I left my crochet hook at home so I had a VERY hard time fixing my mistakes. I finally improvised with an alligator clip. Hell is wanting to knit but not being able to because I've screwed up and have to wait until I get home.