Nobel Prize in Literature 2016

Breaking News: The Nobel Prize in Literature has been awarded to Bob Dylan, "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition".

Wow. I'm shocked and very disappointed at this announcement. What do you think?

Dario Fo dies, Bob Dylan wins. Sad day twice over for literature.

Must've been the Sinatra covers that clinched it.

>3 krolik: "Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord/But you're gonna have to serve somebody"

#2--loved Dario Fo. He was a major outlier of a shock too though.

This was an even bigger shock. I was reading an article just yesterday that went through the odds of all those on Ladbrokes and kept repeating how Bob Dylan had no chance. So that guy has a bit of egg on his face.

Dylan particularly in the 60's was an iconic musical figure and lots of people got inspiration from his music and particularly his words. I was born in 1957 so I never really connected the time and event of the message like others did. I was a kid when Viet Nam and the Kennedy's and Martin Luther King were in the news--and when Muhammed Ali was to sports what Dylan was to music. For what I was doing these things were there but anything at all political was a bit over my head. I don't think I'm disappointed at this. It definitely is retro and I certainly don't think many look at Dylan as an iconic music figure anymore--but then again for me I moved on to punk rock which had a kind of idol bashing element to it. Those first several albums of Dylan's do have some interesting things and some magic about them--right person at the right time in the right place. There's hope for John Lydon. After that IMO he's more than less an ordinary somewhat overrated rock star.

Hey--what the fuck!---there have been worse IMO. I never really understood Winston Churchill for one. It breaks new territory. He wouldn't have been my first choice for sure but the sun will come up tomorrow--a new day. I can live with it. Now that he's won I don't have much choice anyway.

Are there better writers than Bob Dylan out there? Certainly, but most of them are terrible songwriters.
Is he worst writer to win in recent years? Certainly not.

Much as I like Dylan and would argue that he probably is best songwriter of the sixty years I'm still not sure it's literature. On the other hand his words have reached more people than any other winner so I can see some merit in that he managed to produce 'poetry' for the masses.

>5 lriley: - his albums of the last 20 years also have some merit. At least he and Cohen have faced up to growing old unlike many rock stars, i.e., Springsteen & The Rolling Stones, and all those young punks of the 70s who are now old men but keep touring the albums that spat in the face of older generation like Dylan.

Excellent.

Dylan was a big part of how I learned to interact with literature. I'm happy.

#6--musically I'm a bit all over the map. I can listen to Irish Punk, ska, post rock., reggae. I like the free range of live jazz. Basically the first thing I look for in music is a vibe and it needs to move. A lot of soul and motown do that too. And let's not forget rap--a kind of soul version of punk. All these people who couldn't afford instruments finding a way to make something compelling of their own. Where there's a will. Punk rock usually moves--though sometimes it lacks grace. It's a great venue for anti-authoritarian ironic comment though. That's an opinion. I still like much of the old 70's--early 80's punk rock but quite a lot of it is dated because it spoke just to a particular time an place. There's some timeless appeal to early Dylan IMO. The serve somebody Dylan--I have to be honest--I never cared for that--nor the Traveling Wilbury's.

Again I'm not disappointed at the choice and I think it breaks new ground which IMO is a good thing.

In this context, I see Dylan as a poet rather than a songwriter. Under that banner, he's more than worthy of a Nobel nod. Would he have been my choice? Nope, although I think his use of a certain form of literary expression is definitely not trivial if you look at the body of his work. My poetry preferences tend more towards Heaney or Szymborska. I think poetry is a very personal thing though and I can accept that Dylan, who for me is an enjoyable musical experience without depth, is for others something more ... and therein lies his mastery of form.

I'm agnostic on the topic of literary worth of Dylan's poetry but I love this Nobel as a political gesture, a reminder of and a cri de cœur FOR the sixties' striving for justice, solidarity, equality, union, love. That's what Dylan's songs brought to everyone everywhere.

Six large wombats and a bag of saltwater taffy to the Nobel committee.

Leonard Cohen was robbed.

>11 LolaWalser: Yes!

>12 justifiedsinner:

LOL! I think Cohen's a better "poet" but a whole 'nother kettle of fish. Cohen is all about the personal arse, introspection and Buddhist bollocks; Dylan energised the masses. The latter is what we need to improve the world--or at least put the brake on the ongoing hideousness.

>9 lriley: - I'm actually with you on those sentiments. I know everyone thinks their era of music is the best but I would argue that 1976-85/6 was the real heyday of pop/rock music because even after punk was dead. i.e., circa 1978/9, the ethos was still alive and more importantly the record companies didn't have a clue and in the wake of missing signing crucial punk bands just signed everyone so the musical landscape expanded dramatically. I'm obviously talking from a UK perspective but the judging by what America was producing in this period it seems to also apply.

>11 LolaWalser: - that's a better justification of why Dylan deserved the Prize than the Nobel Committee managed.

>12 justifiedsinner: - perhaps they should have shared the prize, with George Clinton, because the Nobel Committee need more funk. Everyone needs more funk. Fried ice cream is a reality.

Poetry in motion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYajHZ4QUVM

I, for one, am pretty much ecstatic about this. Dylan is not just a hero of mine, but a hero of my heroes. His influence is profound and extends across the arts - the work of Joyce Carol Oates, Stephen King, Alan Moore, The Beatles, and Martin Scorsese (to name just a few off the top of my head) would be different (and poorer) without him. I don't think a week has passed by in the last 30 years in which a lyric of his hasn't popped into my head. He has enriched my life and the lives of millions of others.

>9 lriley:

There's hope for John Lydon.

The king is gone
but he's not forgotten
This is the story
of Johnny Rotten

https://youtu.be/t4Y1wDdMYH4

>16 Crypto-Willobie:

He deserves a Nobel Prize just for being able to remember all those lyrics! :D

>17 artturnerjr: - if there was a Nobel Prize for guitar players Neil Young would be my pick, which would completely deserved on the basis of just one song - Like A Hurricane, specifically the version from Weld.

Would the litter-auteurs be outraged if Robert Burns won the Nobel (special time-travel edition)?
or Allen Ginsberg?

>19 Jargoneer:

I concur, but for me it's that first solo he plays on "Down by the River" (Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere version). I'm like a snake in front of a charmer when that one's on the box.

I'm shocked! It's sad that that was the best they could do.

In a way acknowledging Dylan is also a way of acknowledging his influences like Woody Guthrie. This land is your land every day and all 365 days of the year and every leap year too over the trite god bless america.

For the moment, much of the blowback in my (very unscientific) social media sample is not about the question of awarding a songwriter instead of a novelist or poet or playwright, but about the fact that a Nobel goes, yet one more time, to a white man.

I was sure Steve Perry was going to win:

"Any way you want it,
That's the way you need it,
Any way you want it."

Deep.

>24 krolik:
Of the last 25 Nobel Lits preceding Dylan (back to 1991) 14 were not white males -- 7 non-"white" and 8 female (it doesn't add up because Toni Morrison is both).

I was going to say that at least Dylan is a minority -- he's Jewish -- but now I see that Pinter and Kertesz had two Jewish parents, and Jelinka and Modiano one each.

>21 artturnerjr: - that is a great solo, one I'm happy to hear again and again.

The question I keep hearing now is - will he accept it? There seems to be a train of thought suggesting that not accepting it would be more of a Dylan thing to do.

For at least 30 years, a week was not complete for me without some time listening to some Dylan, but IMO most of Dylan's lyrics do not stand up well independently of the music. The samples of his poetry on his old album covers never impressed me either. So this choice only makes sense to me if sung lyrics are their own literary genre.

>27 Jargoneer:

The question I keep hearing now is - will he accept it? There seems to be a train of thought suggesting that not accepting it would be more of a Dylan thing to do.

Apparently there's no comment from the Dylan camp yet, so we'll just have to wait and see.

>26 Crypto-Willobie:

Am just the messenger. Speaking for myself, I wasn't worried about that angle, re Dylan. But thanks for the scorecard.

>11 LolaWalser: You deserve the Peace Prize for your mediation! Of course, you're absolutely right (correct).

>21 artturnerjr: Absolutely the best Neil Young.

>20 Crypto-Willobie: I think the point about Burns is important. Lyric poetry is a valid category of literature and lyric poetry is, by definition, sung. The majority of poetry produced nowadays is lyric because you can't make a living from it any other way.

>14 LolaWalser: >15 Jargoneer: The three greatest, popular poets of my era were Bob, Dylan, Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell. To me Dylan is more epic, Cohen more interior and Mitchell more confessional.

Personally, I was always more drawn to Cohen. He hears the darkling and many a times is half in love with easeful death.

>13 klarusu:, >15 Jargoneer:, >31 SassyLassy:

Thank you, thank you, will blurb for money or Marmite (described this morning in a newspaper as "brown sludge"--how DARE they! Especially when English industry may yet reduce to yeast extraction.)

>32 justifiedsinner:

I adore Cohen (despite the non-insignificant arsehole component of his beginnings), which is not something I can say about Dylan, and would have been just as glad to see the prize go to him. But it can't be all things to all people in a single year...

Cohen is preparing everyone for the worst in this New Yorker article. About halfway through it Dylan is asked about Cohen.

Great article.

Dylan sounds very knowledgable and articulate about Cohen's music.

Great clips in this article:

LISTEN TO ODETTA COVER DYLAN

https://youtu.be/YAzM7-yH5SU

>37 LolaWalser:

Thanks

O Bob, Where Art Thou?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/17/nobel-prize-bob-dylan-unable-to-re...

Leonard Cohen: giving Nobel to Bob Dylan like 'pinning medal on Everest'

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/oct/14/leonard-cohen-giving-nobel-to-bob-...