When are You Now? (2016)

I am back in 7th century Ireland with Sister Fidelma as she and Brother Eadulf as they go to Laisre ( a pagan state) to negotiate permission to build a Christian church and school in the novel Valley of the Shadow by Petre Tremayne.

This is the 5th or 6th book in the Sister Fedelma series that I will have read.... always a good read.

Tree book: Georgia: A Novel of Georgia O'Keeffe by Dawn Tripp, LTER, MOT, finishing
E-book: Circling the Sun by Paula McLain, MOT, finishing
A-book: A Mercy by Toni Morrison, narrated by the author, library loan, beginning
Read-aloud book: The Hut Six Story: Breaking the Enigma Codes by Gordon Welchman, by the man who did it, tree book, library loan, beginning

Next Up: Matriarch: An Australian Novel of Love and War by Geoffrey Hope Gibson: tree book, LTER

Just finished The Captain's Wife by Douglas Kelley, based on the 1855 adventures of real-life Mary Patten. Along for the ride on a clipper ship run around Cape Horn, her husband became gravely ill and she became commander and navigator--while pregnant and with a violent and mutinous first mate imprisoned below decks. (Mercy, we are weak and spoiled these days, eh?) Quite, quite good!

>3 gmathis: looks like my kind of story... I will be looking for it

>4 Lynxear: lynxear: Best $1.50 I've spent at Goodwill for a while :)

I am in 1964 London with a retiring Churchill and his black dog depression personified. Mr Chartwell by Rebecca Hunt

1813 in Russia near Moscow in War and Peace.

>7 jnwelch:, The French are coming! The French are coming!

Sorry. I thought that was funny for a minute there. Normally it's the Russians, see, but this story is set in Russia, and this time it's the French army that's ... never mind.

>9 jnwelch: Ha! Well, you made me laugh, if that helps. :-)

Now the French are going! The French are going! What a head-shaking time in history that was.

Dual times, contemporary and WWII. The Distant Hours by Kate Morton

I'm in 18th century Lisbon and London with Sebastian Foxx in Day of Atonement by David Liss. He's one of my favorite historical fiction writers and he never fails to write such cultivating novels.

I am now in 1808 with Hornblower in Happy Return as he leads his ship, HMS Lydia, to a secret mission off the coast of Nicaragua.

This book (at least the edition I have) has a very interesting introduction. This is Forrester's first book he wrote in the Hornblower series. At the time he was an unemployed scriptwriter on a pirate movie that was one-upped by Errol Flynn starring in a film on almost the same material called Captain Blood. The film producer that he was working with was Arthur Hornblow (coincidence??). He was also being pursued by an opera singer regarding a paternity suit... the introduction speculates that is why he gave his Hornblower a hatred of music...hahaha. There is a lot more info in that introduction by Bernard Cornwell.

I have just finished a satisfying read of Valley of the Shadow a Sister Fedelma mystery... now onto another favourite author.

I'm in WWII era France and Germany with Anthony Doerr's All The Light We Cannot See. Also, I'm totally new to LibraryThing and am trying to figure things out here. Apparently I need to figure out how to link to the books I post about :-)

1640, England, with poet Robert Herrick during the lead-up to the Civil War in Rose Macaulay's They Were Defeated; the witch-hunter and his team have just arrived in the district...

>13 Melissa_J:

Melissa, to make a 'touchstone' (the blue highlighting / link for a book title), put your title in square brackets. Then before you save, check to the right to see if it is linking to the correct book (it might choose a different book with the same title). If it does not have the right book, click 'others' to get a list to choose from.

All The Light We Cannot See

Welcome to LT! :)

>14 lyzard: Thank you! That's a great feature.

I had both knees replaced just after Christmas, and you would think this would be a great time for reading, right? But no, I find I have little interest in anything at the moment...

However, I did manage to finish The Rebels of Ireland and have moved on to something much lighter, a Regency called Enchanted by Victoria Malvey.

>16 dkhiggin:, ouch, my mom had one done last year and gets another next month, puts her out of the mood for just about anything too. Good luck with your recovery!

>16 dkhiggin: dk, when I had my knees done I thought it would be a good time for reading too. Unfortunately, the pain meds scrambled my vision so I couldn't focus on the page or even the television. About all I could do was listen to music. By the 3rd or 4th week you will see the light at the end of the tunnel and be reading up a storm.

Yes, some days, I'm more whiney than others! The physical therapists and doctors and nurses all tell me I am doing great, so I guess I must be! It's just these darn things feel like wooden pirate's legs and I want them to bend!!!

I am looking forward to just a little more motivation, though. :-)

>19 dkhiggin: Most people get one knee replaced at a time not both at once! My mother had both her knees replaced while in her 60's and she recovered 90% of her old mobility in a year. It made a vast difference to her quality of life in the following 15 years when she passed away due to cancer... She would be live today if she had a colorectal exam in the previous 5 years to her death.

Anyway, I assume your knees were pretty painful before the surgery... If you are diligent in your therapy I am sure you will be happy with the result as my mother was. Good Luck.

I finished Happy Return by CS Forester... it is the fifth Hornblower novel in the series but is in fact the first one written. I thoroughly enjoyed the read, this despite some of the characteristics emphasized in this book were well known to the reader if they followed the series. You do see a different side of him though on the "almost" romantic side of him with his relationship with Lady Wellesley... 'nuff said, read the book :)

>20 Lynxear:
Yes, I gather most people think I am either very brave or missing a screw! My father had a friend who had both done at once, and I figured if an 80-something man could do it, I could do it. My main issue is that I'm not a back sleeper, and you really can't maneuver yourself into any other comfortable position. They all hurt! Soooo, not getting much sleep at the moment, but I'll survive!

>22 dkhiggin: I understand such pain though not in my knees. I had a cancer surgery to remove a cancerous appendix. I had a full laperodomy (SP)... a 15 inch cut along side my navel through all the stomach muscles to remove a cancerous appendix (as it turned out.)

It took me 3 days to get out of bed and walk. The bathroom was 20 feet away and I could get there in a blazing speed of 5-10 minutes. a week later I went to a AAA ball game and I parked about 500 feet from the entrance and it took the best part of 40 mins to reach my seat... I could only shuffle along... but then things got gradually better.

The trick is to revel in small improvements. Small steps...don't try to do everything in a session. Eventually something that was too painful to do becomes doable... build on that.... It isn't like you become bionic everyday :) When you start seeing progress you attitude and abilities grow exponentially

I'm in early 17th century India with The Feast of Roses, second book in Indu Sundaresan's series about the Moghal empire. I enjoyed the first one, The Twentieth Wife, but I'm liking this one a bit better. I'm also new to LibraryThing, figuring it all out, but liking it so far.

>24 SabinaE:

Welcome! I'm not new anymore to LT, but I am still trying to figure it all out! Tim and his fabulous crew are always making tweaks and improvements. Keeps LT exciting and us users on our toes.

Thank you! It's good to learn new things (or so I keep telling myself!) and so far it's been great!

>23 Lynxear:, congrats on getting through that! If something had to get cancerous and be removed, at least it was your appendix.

>26 SabinaE:, definitely poke around the various menus and links, there's hidden treasures it literally took me months to discover before my attention was drawn to them.

>23 Lynxear:
Wow! Sounds painful just reading about it! It's a good thing we have short memories when it comes to pain. I have had so many surgeries, I usually have to write on the back of the page when filling out forms! But, we carry on...

I am seeing tiny improvements already, of course. A lot of the swelling has gone down, but my knees are still so stiff! Just call me peg leg times two!

>27 Cecrow: >28 dkhiggin: well that operation happened in 1998 and after 5 years of followup and testing I am squeaky clean of cancer. It is funny how years later you can see gallows humour from something like that.

One story and I will get off this subject :)

They did not stitch me up... I suppose it is the normal thing to do now but I was startled to see I was stapled together. I woke up in my hospital bed about 5 hours after the surgery and it was late at night. I had to take a whiz and called for a nurse for a bottle. She looked at my chart and said I was supposed to walk to the bathroom. I said "What!!! I just had a major surgery!!!" I looked at this little biddy girl who was about 5'2" and maybe 100lbs... I am a big guy 6'4" and 240lbs.

I said... "who is going to catch me when I collapse???"
She said "you aren't going to collapse, are you?"
I said, "I have no idea what will happen... I have never had major surgery before but if I did I am sure you would collapse under me. I want a male nurse present"

So she went and got one.

I am sure women who have had a Cesarean section can relate....you have no muscles in your stomach. I struggled to try to rise to a sitting position with no success. In frustration I showed a fist to the male nurse with my elbow bent at the elbow, so that he would do the same and I would haul myself up.

He did this and I started to pull myself up and the pain came on sharp and fast... I though I had popped a few staples in the process as I screamed like a banshee and fell back in the bed. The sounds of my scream echoed down the quiet late night hallways.

I got my bottle :)

At the time it was horrific for me.... but now I smile and say "I told you so!"

DKhiggin - you too will look back on this and see the humour of the situation that you find yourself in. My mother went through the same thing.. it takes time to get those muscles working proper again.... but it is like Dr. Ruth says with her German cackle (you know who Dr. Ruth is, don't you?) "Practice... Practice... Practice" :) ..... humour is a great coping mechanism.

Cecrow - yes in retrospect it was fortunate it was in my appendix but the fact is that most people don't survive this cancer... I was a novelty for 5 years of post-op testing. I did not go in for cancer surgery. I went to emergency complaining of a pain in my right side and a low grade fever... like a stomach flue. The only organ on the right side is the appendix but my white cell count was normal. I had a mass on the outside of my appendix so they opened me up because they were not sure what they would find. It was only after the surgery and the biopsy on the appendix (routine if you are over 50) that they found a microscopic adenocarcenoid tumour was the cause of the problem... the mass was 50 cc of puss from fighting the tumour.

I was told that if the tumour was 1 mm in size I would have had 6 months to live.... 1cm in size... one month to live.

Most times this cancer is caught too late. I was lucky and dodged a huge bullet... sometimes I feel like I cheated as a cancer survivor. I did not suffer much...no radiation or chem treatments... but 16 years later I still think about the cancer at least every other day.

>29 Lynxear:
Just glad you're still with us! One of my many surgeries was something called robotic abdominal sacrocolpoplexy. It involved five abdominal incisions! None of them were large, but you wouldn't know it from the amount of pain involved in simple things like sitting up in bed, rolling over in bed (OMG!), bending down to put on your socks, etc.

Well, I think we have sufficiently hijacked this thread! Back to historical fiction now...

> 30 yeah.. we are sounding like old biddies on a park bench, aren't we?

I am currently finishing a Baldacci novel Split Second but next on my list is a historical fiction novel ... a Sister Fidelma mystery Badger's Moon

I'm in Portugal in 1807 in The Lure of the Moonflower.

I'm in Poland during World War II with Joel C. Rosenberg's The Auschwitz Escape.

I'm in 1819 in A Fashionable Indulgence.

I'm in Georgia in 1861 with 10 year old Doc Holliday.

>35 Zumbanista: this sounds like a book I'd like to read... let me know how you like it.

I am in the 1st century BC in Rome with I am Livia, the woman who would eventually marry Caesar Augustus.

Sometimes I am reading My Father's Notebook in Revolutionary Iran. Other times I wave and say to my good friend, Good Night, Mr. Wodehouse before tucking into my early 20th C. bed and reading the book.

Now I'm in 1866 in Once Upon a Marquess.

>36 Lynxear: I'm 34% in and am in love with both the writing and the subject matter.

>37 dkhiggin: Lucky you! DH and I read aloud on a road trip and both loved it. Very moving and great writing. There is a sequel in the works apparently.

about 1868, with Sisi: Empress on Her Own. Enjoying it so far. It occurs to me that I don't really know much about the lead up to WWI other than a few stark facts.

>41 al.vick: I was first introduced to Sisi on a trip to Vienna and admit being a bit obsessed with her strong personality. Had the chance to visit her palace in Corfu last year as well. Interested to hear how you enjoy the book and if you read the first one The Accidental Empress?

No, I haven't read the first one, in fact I just found out that there was a first one, so I added it to my wishlist on amazon.
I'm enjoying it so far.

I'm currently hanging out in 12th century England with Elizabeth Chadwick's The Love Knot

>40 Zumbanista: I will look for the book then... I took a look at your library and see we have a similar taste in historical fiction. I will recommend a book in trade for your suggestion.

Comanche Dawn by Mike Blakely..... an introduction to the forming of the Comanche nation and its horse culture....I think you will really like it.

>45 Lynxear:. Just rated & reviewed Doc at 4.5 stars. I loved the prose and hope you will too.

Thanks for recommending Comanche Dawn and I'll add it to my Amazon Wishlist - if it's not already there! I think it might be.

I'm mostly in Dublin, with occasional stopovers in New York City, in 1916, by Morgan Llywelyn.

And I too loved Doc. Epitaph is pretty good too.

I'm now reading in Buenos Aires, circa 1950, via A Quiet Flame, the 5th entry in Philip Kerr's brilliant "Bernie Gunther" noir series.

I have finished Sisi Empress on Her Own, and am just starting The Accidental Empress. I enjoyed the first one, thought I admit it was bit depressing near the end when so many of her loved ones die. So far I like the Accidental Empress. It is nice to see Sisi happy!

Angle of Repose is a fictional retelling of the life of Mary Hallock Foote, author and artist who lived in the western United States from the 1880s into the 20th century., with all kinds of insight into frontier life and especially the mining industry. I think this one is geared for post-retirement reading which is another twenty years out for me, but still enjoying it.

Imperium by Robert Harris, performed by Simon Jones, begins in 65 BCE. First volume in the trilogy about the life of Cicero, ancient Rome's greatest orator.

Pompey has just been named Supreme Commander, Pappa Doc, All Powerful and is off to conquer the Ostian pirates, ostensibly, but really to consolidate his position as Ruler of the World. Cicero helped make him so.

Absolutely un-unlistenable to.

I am in 1643, London, England. reading about a little girl in I, Coriander by Sally Gardiner. It is a young adult book that is supposed to be a fairy tale but it is more of a historical fantasy about a young girl who grows up with a mother who is a healer who sells potions and a father who is a cloth merchant. Charles I has just been beheaded and Puritans are making life miserable for those who supported the executed king. Her mother has died and Father had to marry an evil woman who is a Puritan. Rumours of witchcraft make life difficult for the girl who does seem to have inherited some of her mother's gifts.

I am in the late 15th/early 16th centuries with The Last Voyage of Columbus by Martin Dugard. Just started, so I haven't formed much of an opinion yet!

>53 dkhiggin: I'd be interest to know if you enjoyed it once you have read more of it!

Left Cicero to his 55 BCE Imperium (to be continued in vol. II) for a sojourn in mid-20th C. England at an obscure college where Lucky Jim teaches Medieval history.

I'm reading Morning Ran Red by Stephen Bowman. This is a fictionalized account of an actual event: a multiple axe murder in Iowa in 1912. The book was published in 1986.

I'm in 17th century Germany with A Werewolf of Bamberg by Oliver Potzch. It's the fifth installment of his A Hangman's Daughter series, and so far the best one.

Back with Uhtred of Bebbanburg sometime in the early 900s in England in his latest, Warriors of the Storm. Always enjoy seeing what old Uhtred will get up to (and who he will kill) next

Finished the Time Machine, I am so used to the Rod Taylor movie, I keep looking for things to happen.

>59 mnleona:, LOL - this topic is meant to be for historical fiction titles, but how can you argue with time travel being applicable to "When are you Now?"

>58 tjm568: Yep me too! Enjoying it so far.

I've started The Run of the Country by Shane Connaughton. It's an Irish coming of age story that begins during the days of the Irish Civil War (so early 1920s), but very quickly flashes back to the protagonist's childhood. I think the book is going to spend most of its time working back up to its beginning. At any rate, early-20th century Ireland, near the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

1850s, India, with Rebel Queen by Michelle Moran. Very readable, I am speeding through it.

Well, it turned out that The Run of the Country, as reported in post 62, above, does not take place in the 1920s, but in the 1950s instead. It just takes a while to work that out. It's not a flaw in the book, though, as that vagueness fits in well with the narrative's overall theme. I report this here simply for the sake of accuracy. Still a good book and still historical fiction, as the novel was published in the 1990s.

>54 al.vick:
Turns out, The Last Voyage of Columbus is not historical fiction at all, but history! It is so well-written, though, it reads like a novel. I am about two-thirds done (I don't have much reading time lately!) and I am really enjoying it.

I'm in 1388 in London with Crispin Guest in The Silence of Stones.

I just got back to Rome during the reign of Tiberius in the year 26 with Tribune of Rome.

I spent last night and this morning in London, first in 1819/1820 in A Seditious Affair and now 1866 in Her Every Wish.

I am in England in 1859 in the novel Zulu Hart by Saul David. I am following George Hart who does not know his father though he was posh and his mother is half Irish/Zulu. He wants to serve Queen and country but as you can imagine his road is rough.

I am in 1890-1900 America, Chicago, reading Homeland: The Crown Family Saga, 1890-1900 by John Jakes. I will be there for sometime as it's 1260 pages in length and I'm on page 200.

May, 1971, West Pakistan, in the midst of the civil war that will soon create the independent country of Bangladesh, reading A Golden Age by Tahmima Anam.

1100 AD England with King Henry in Afton of Margate Castle by Angela Elwell Hunt, a really great book!

I'm in 16th century England with Mistress Shakespeare and good ol' William! Enjoying the unusual take on his life.

I'm in Regency England with Longbourn by Jo Baker. It's based on the servants from Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen and it's very well written but a little slow moving.

I am in the 1870's American West with Doc by Mary Doria Russell, keeping company with Doc Holliday, Wyatt, Morgan and James Earp. Excellent book so far.

#74
Persevere. In the end it moves considerably faster than Austen!

I am on a US warship, part of a first wave, landing on a beach at Anopopei Island, a fictional island in the South Pacific some time in the early part of World War II. It is Norman Mailer's classic novel The Naked and the Dead

In Berlin in 1932 in both the German and the Jewish quarters in All My Love, Detrick

In 12th century Venice in The Eye Stone by Roberto Tiraboschi. It's his first novel translated into English, and I am absolutely loving it. It's about a monk with failing eyesight looking for a miracle cure (the eye stone) who is plunged into the world of Venetian glassmakers, with murders and intrigue going on.

>79 wjburton: you have the wrong touchstone for The Eye Stone when you don't see the correct touchstone under Touchstones to the right of the add-a-message box, click on (others) and a list box of other possibilities will drop down and you can find the correct one.

This sounds like a book I'd like to read if I ever come across it. Let me know your impressions when you finish it.

I'm enjoying my time in Victoria Englad with Charlotte Pitt in Paragon Walk.

I'm in what would eventually become known as Canada in the early 17th century, in Joseph Boyden's The Orenda.

Actually, I'm on current day reading Michael Wallace's The Righteous about polygamous Mormons.

I'm in 1940 in London and Malta in Everyone Brave is Forgiven.

1940 on both sides of the Atlantic with The Postmistress. Just got started; liking it immensely.

Finished The Naked and the Dead... It was a struggle to read through this negative view of the war in the Pacific and disappointed me after waiting so long to find and read this novel.

#86
No doubt your disappointment is exacerbated by the fact that it isn't even a historical novel, having been published in 1948!

> 87

No it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it being or not being Historical Fiction. It has EVERYTHING to do with the content and utter negative view of life and the miserable nature of all characters in the story.

This IS Historical fiction by my standards and the standards of other writers. I looked up a writer's reference as to what Historical Fiction means

http://fmwriters.com/Visionback/Issue34/historicalfic.htm

Now you may not believe in their definition but it supports my view and that is fine by me. Nowhere in their discussion does time enter into their definition.

"..... So historical fiction is a close relative of history, but not simply a retelling of the lectures we learned to dread in high school. We write historical fiction, and read it, not to learn about history so much as to live it. It is the closest we can get to experiencing the past without having been there. We finish a history and think "So that's what happened!" We finish a work of historical fiction, catch our breath, and think "So that's what it was like!"....."

I have gone through this nonsense in another thread (which I believe you have already probably read...hence you are probably acting as a troll here).

The book is NOT autobiographical as hinted at in the Wikipedia discussion of the book... If you depend on Wikipedia for your information I feel sorry for you. The book is set on a fictional Island somewhere in the Pacific theater of World War II which is over 75 years ago.

I am tired of this debate...

#88
Now, now, no need to get your knickers in a knot! For the record, I am not a troll, I have not consulted Wikipedia about this book (and I feel sorry for anybody who goes to Wikipedia for literary criticism) and I suggest you consult a respectable dictionary for a definition of "exacerbation".

The discussion which you quote is spot on about the reasons why we read historical fiction, but it does not address the definition of historical fiction. I will not go into this because it is apparent that others have got up your nose about it elsewhere.

You are entitled to your view, but the inevitable consequence is that any novel will qualify as a historical novel in due course, possibly within as little as twelve months depending on the reader's memory of events.

I think we're an open-minded enough community here to accept variance in definition with much quibbling (same in just about every other LT group devoted to a particular genre, that I've seen). Such an interesting thing to discuss, though.

>88 Lynxear:, it's an interesting link (and entirely relevant to this topic, so thank you), although I think it would add more to a discussion about how much freedom a writer has to play with actual historical events than whether date of publication pertains to the question. The opening line being "Historical fiction is far from the most popular of fiction genres" and taking the point made by >89 dajashby: point into account (everything would become historical fiction in short order by the most liberal definition), it seems like there's a contradiction if we're to take the link as defence for The Naked and the Dead and similar examples.

I've been reading a lot of Dickens and some critique of his work, and I've found it's consistently said he wrote only two historical fiction novels, among his many. That statement obviously takes into context the publication dates of when he wrote his works (i.e. we do not regard all of his work as historical fiction), and one example of the context I consistently see the term being used in, so I personally stick with that. On a more personal note I think someone writing about the times they live in is generally more reliable (even in fiction) of capturing the true zeitgeist of those times (being part of those times themselves), so that drawing the line by using publication date is informative to the reader.

#90
Thank you, I try my best. You need a bit more practice though - cunt is too crude, the appropriate expression would be berk.

#91
I think it's pretty clear that I prefer the definition of "historical novel" as one set in a period before the writer's memory, which with the greatest respect to Lynxear is generally accepted as the conventional definition.

The link I thought was rather narrowly focused. It claimed that historical fiction is usually written by historians and retired military persons.

Really? The best stuff is, IMO, written by novelists; considerDorothy Dunnett, Patrick O'Brian, Hilary Mantel, Pat Barker and a host of lesser but still very accomplished authors. We won't of course mention the writers of bodice rippers...

I do agree with you about Dickens, and he's not the only one - I'm quite keen on Anthony Trollope, Nancy Mitford, Evelyn Waugh and even Doris Lessing to name but a few for giving you insights into what life was like in the past.

>91 Cecrow: >92 dajashby: I believe there is too much emphasis on the definition of Historical Fiction.

As I have said, if the book covers a historical period and is written in a fictional style ... it is Historical Fiction to me.

Contrast that with Jane Austen and Dickens, their writing is basically a slice of life from centuries ago but they are not necessarily commenting on an event in history... So splitting hairs one could just say it was fiction and not historical fiction.

Having said that, when a book is written by an author in the first half of the previous century and presents us with a vivid description of what life was like in a that era of the past and is about a significant event in history, I would happily consider it historical fiction.

What is the difference if the Naked and The Dead was written last week or a few years after that war???

The words would be the same but the book written a week ago would be considered historical fiction by all.... but the book written after the war is supposed to have a different classification today?

Either way, it would be illustrating life as a US soldier, in a recon platoon on an island somewhere in the Pacific Theater of World War II attacking the Japanese. You would experience what it would be like during that time and in this case you are also presented with the prejudices and attitudes as well. Though in this case, I would hate to think life during that time was as miserable as portrayed as there is no redeeming qualities in any of the characters.

Is a novel written today with a setting from 200 years ago not historical fiction if it does not include mention of a 'historical event' or 'significant event in history'?

A war veteran writing a novel that draws upon his personal and recent experiences, versus me today (never having served) writing a novel in that same setting - I think the effect will differ significantly. In the first instance as a reader I will say "I didn't realize it was like this to experience that." In the second instance I can only say, "It might have been like this to experience that - I wonder?" Modern authors play to modern sensibilities and mores, and their imagination is based on influences and assumptions rather than experience (I'm talking about thoughts, observations and feelings of characters, not facts which can be researched); all readers should take that into account.

I haven't read The Naked and the Dead, and it sounds pretty depressing. Based on your description, I wouldn't go so far as to think "all American GIs were like this, felt and thought this way", but I might come away with "this was the experience for some of them." Or I might imagine some poor saps like you and me were assigned to platoons like that and had to deal with these people, on top of not getting killed. I'd have to assume this is a point Mailer was trying to make, that the men fighting the war for us were not heroic beings, they were just men. He might have been reacting to a "hurrah for victory!" atmosphere in the late forties that he felt glorified everyone involved, and wanted to bring some balance to that. I'm just speculating.

If that book were written today by me, you might suspect me of aiming for shock value while denigrating the memory of the soldiers who served, or contriving a symbolic message about the futility of war in general, or commenting on modern warfare using a historical setting as disguise. Different effect.

>95 Cecrow: you are speculating about a book you have not read.

You should read the novel before such speculation and I think you would come away with the same feelings that I and several of other reviewers have of the novel. I am not saying the novel is badly written....but reading 500+ pages where everyone from the command on down to privates are unredeemable is certainly the opposite pendulum swing from the "rah rah" of the war but I find it hard to believe true.... though it may be I suppose but I find it hard to believe a military force could win a war with such attitudes.

I never got that sense from talking to my uncles, father and grandfather talking about their war experiences. From them I heard of the terrible times but also of camaraderie and even funny experiences when behind the lines and not in combat. Then again they were in the European theatre...not in the Pacific and they were in the Canadian military... not the US... might be a difference there.

>95 Cecrow: Well said.

I have read The Naked and the Dead, although many years ago. One thing to remember is that he was writing about things he actually experienced. As for the depiction of the soldiers, if I remember correctly, the events of the book were taking place near the end of the war, when the soldiers involved would have already gone through several years of savage, dehumanizing combat, as by all but the most gussied up accounts, the war in the Pacific was.

#96
For somebody who claims to be tired of the debate you certainly have a lot to say. You have made it abundantly clear that you did not enjoy The Naked and The Dead, there is no need to keep on defending your opinion.

However, I have been giving serious consideration to the application of your definition of a historical novel, using your own examples, and I think - if you will forgive me for saying so - that you are insufficiently rigorous.

I wonder if you have read much Dickens. A Tale of Two Cities is by your definition and everybody else's a historical novel, because it comments on the French Revolution, which took place before Dickens was born. But how many of his other novels would you dismiss as merely "slice of life"? Dickens was a tireless campaigner for social reform and all sorts of historical events and facts feature in his stories. What about David Copperfield (child labour and the debtors' prison)? Hard Times (the Industrial Revolution)? Surely for you these would have to be historical novels.

As for Jane Austen, Lydia would never have met Wickham if he had not been in town with the soldiery, who were there because of the Napoleonic Wars. Are you maintaining that Pride and Prejudice is not a historical novel merely because nobody explicitly Mentions The War?

Personally I don't think there is any such thing as a pure "slice of life" novel. There are always historical events in the background; yes, even with Barbara Pym.

>98 dajashby: then you agree Dickens, Jane Austen are Historical Fiction writers by my definition and that of the reference of that writer's website I quoted.

I am tired of this discussion but I will defend my views on the subject when called upon.

>99 Lynxear:, I believe >98 dajashby: and I are both fascinated with your definition, for the very reason that there must be exceedingly little which is NOT historical fiction. Unless you do rule out the 'slice of life' novels, but I can't imagine how difficult it must be to determine which those are. It's an extremely complex concept you've created, when you start delving into it.

> 100

I will repeat myself

"What is the difference if the Naked and The Dead was written last week or a few years after that war???

The words would be the same but the book written a week ago would be considered historical fiction by all.... but the book written after the war is supposed to have a different classification today? "

I fail to see how the timing of the publishing of a book should affect its classification. The book would be identical, the book would show the emotions, prejudices and racism of soldiers who were participating in a historical event though in a fictional setting.
You experience what war in that period was like from the point of view of the author.

It is not a case of a setting where the timing sets the story in a historical period but the story is about general life during those times and the history of the period is not really apart of the story (Jane Austen) those I would consider to be less Historical Fiction, though through her writing you do experience life during her time period... Dickens I would consider Historical Fiction without hesitation.

>101 Lynxear:, I concede you've established that when a book was written/published has no bearing on how you read it. It seems the author's personal experience and biography also has no bearing on how you read and interpret what he/she writes. But I would suggest to you that you are missing out on considerable context that would help inform an accurate perception and interpretation of what you are reading, in both cases. If you imagined the same scenario while reading non-fiction (e.g. a science textbook written today versus one written in 1916 on the same topic) I trust the difference that such context brings would be more obvious. If you don't accept the premise that a similar effect applies to fiction, I'm at a loss for posing any further argument.

The separation of 'general life' from 'history of the period' is where the complexity lies that I referred to. To use your Jane Austen example, you consider her work to be "less" historical fiction, which suggests the degrees of "historical fiction-ness" on a sliding scale that your interpretation demands. My interpretation is much simpler and therefore more functional. I can quickly say whether a novel is historical fiction or it is not (some exceptions, around the debate of how long before publication is the setting before you can truly call it historical).

Your interpretation works, but it makes the categorization appear spotty and continues to feel, to me, less informative and wieldy. You must have some additional named category in mind for works like Austen's that are ruled out as historical fiction but still take place centuries ago, since I doubt whether you would place Pride and Prejudice alongside today's bestsellers without distinguishing.

>102 Cecrow:

I have been thinking about Jane Austen's work... Her work is basically about romance... So I might characterize her work as Historical Romance. The forms of romance change with the ages and she basically describing what it would be like in the 18th century.

Similarly I am a great fan of the author, C. J. Sansom. He is a mystery writer primarily and his excellent Shardlake series is based on issues during the reign of Henry VIII. You really come to understand life and especially the judiciary in those times. IMHO those books are Historical Mysteries in that series. Similar Historical Mystery writers would be Tremayne, Peter with his Sister Fidelma series based in Ireland in the 7th century and Marston, Edward who writes mysteries taking place during the reign of Charles II just after the great fire of London. There are many more examples... those are just two other Historical mystery writers that I particularly like.

#103
Let's just clarify one thing. Neither Cecrow nor I accept your definition, we are merely attempting to see how it works in practice. You yourself have been doing the same, and have consequently changed your views on Dickens and Austen.

Jane Austen, I am afraid, is often mistaken - usually by young female readers - for a writer of romances, but she isn't. Her work is better described as comedy of manners; marriage is a major plot element because women from Austen's class had no alternative other than governessing if they weren't to be totally dependant on their male relatives. They cannot afford to succumb to romantic feelings; Lizzie doesn't marry Darcey because she loves him, she marries him because he's stinking rich. Agreed, she discovers he's quite a decent chap despite his rather off-putting manner.

I cannot accept categorising Austen as Historical Romance, lumped in with Georgette Heyer - whose books I have to say are not a bad read if you like that sort of thing. Austen is not a genre writer of any variety. She gets shelved with the straight "literary" fiction like the stylistically similar works of Barbara Pym.

Historical Mysteries are an accepted genre. I'm keen on Ellis Peters myself, and even keener on Lyndsey Davis and her wonderful Falco series set in Ancient Rome. I find Sansom's style a bit ponderous, too much tell instead of show.

If we might double back somewhat, I wonder how you would classify Death Comes to Pemberley by P. D. James. In case you haven't read it, some years after the events in Pride and Prejudice there is a murder near Pemberley and the local magistrate investigates.

I would call this a historical novel, or more specifically a historical mystery if not a very good one, but I think you have a problem because James bases her story on fictional, not real historical events. Like a set of Russian dolls, isn't it?

>104 dajashby:

I don't recall changing my views on Dickens or Jane Austen for that matter... I consider Jane Austen a romance writer of her period. I must confess though my reading of Pride and Prejudice was over 50 years ago as it was required reading in an english course I took.

I called it Historical fiction and then refined that to Historical romance. In any genre of writing there are good writers and there are bad writers. You obviously consider Georgette Heyer a poor writer of romance novels, I have never read her work so unlike others, I cannot comment on something or some author that I have not read so I have no opinion there.

You do not like C.J. Sansom it seems.... Your opinion is your opinion. I for that matter like the degree of detail Sansom puts into his novels. The frustrating thing for both the reader AND the characters in the book is that in investigating one mystery Shardlake usually uncovers one or two more and the clues mix together making it difficult for the reader to solve the mystery. For me, not having being lead by the hand to the solution(s) is a bonus .... not a detriment. Everyone to their own taste.

An example of Historical fiction that I do not like is by Simon Scarrow who writes about the invasion of England by Romans (initially anyway). My main bone to pick with his writing is his use of modern British slang in his writing. He does not even pretend to use language appropriate for the time. I recall a general getting so mad that he said he would "throw the book at him", really?. He may be a scholar on the subject but not on the language.

The opposite end of the scale as far as language goes is Patrick O'Brian. His naval novels pretty much require a naval English dictionary of the times to understand the dialog. I don't have to have authentic language to enjoy the book but there should not be modern slang in the work... that is just off putting for me.

So as far as lumping one author with another author in the same genre and being offended by it... that is a personal thing... nothing more

As far as P.D. James goes... as one who likes mysteries, I did thumb through a couple of her novels in bookstores to see if a novel appealed to me but did not find any that grabbed my attention.... There are many mystery writers that don't appeal to me. But she certainly is a mystery writer and writing in a historical setting... I have no problem putting her work( or at least the work you mention) in a Historical mystery category.

I don't have a problem the book not relating to a historical event as long as the novel makes me feel as though I am experiencing life of that time period.

One writer that I really like in a more modern setting as a Mystery writer is Tim Downs. You don't find many books written about a forensic entomologist...very educating :)

#105
Oh dear, I wish you would read a bit more carefully. I consider Heyer a good writer of historical romances - "not a bad read if you like that sort of thing" were my exact words. Many people consider her the doyenne of the genre, which I haven't bothered with since my teens.

With respect, you did change your mind about Dickens. At #94 you said his writing was "slice of life" and therefore not historical fiction which you seemed to think at that stage required explicit comment on an event in history.

I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding about Sansom. I was not referring to his plots but to his ability to establish characterisation. I feel he tends to tell you that somebody is cheerful or sarcastic or whatever, rather than letting the reader work it out from the way the character speaks or behaves. It's just my preference in the sort of writing that appeals to me. I never said I did not like his books, just that I liked other people's better.

We will have to agree to disagree about Austen, but then we always did - I was merely curious to see how you fitted her into your system. I'm not sure that it's necessary for you to do it by classifying her work as "romance", a genre which arguably began with the great-grandmother of them all Jane Eyre. Isn't it enough for you that her books are set in the past?

Never fear, we have a number of reference books relating to the works of Patrick O'Brian - there's even a cookbook. That's part of the fun, the sensation of immersing yourself in another reality.

You really should give P. D. James a try. Her novels are less about the crime - sometimes you know from the beginning who did it - than about the psychology of the criminal, and very well-written.

I will have to look up Tim Downs.

Whew! I think we might have exhausted the possibilities of the discussion, but it's been very entertaining :-)

Then we shall agree to disagree... really there is no capital offense on how one decides how to classify an author.

There are a couple of mystery writers that I don't seem to twig to... P.D James is one, (perhaps if you could suggest her best I will look for it), John Sandford is another though I did read one book of his that was tolerable Dark of the Moon

One writer that seems popular but I have not read yet is Dorothy L. Sayers Others that I seem to shy away from are Sue Grafton, Patricia Cornwell.

Older writers I have trouble with are Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett and Agatha Christie... and I really cannot say why, though the first 2 writers are hard to find in used book stores.

"I think we have a bit of a misunderstanding about Sansom. I was not referring to his plots but to his ability to establish characterization. I feel he tends to tell you that somebody is cheerful or sarcastic or whatever, rather than letting the reader work it out from the way the character speaks or behaves."

Well I did not find that with him but it would rank in the same vein as being ticked when reading modern British slang coming from the mouth of a pre-Christian Roman.... I like how Ellis Peters or Peter Tremayne (depending which name you prefer) deals with language... especially Latin by sprinkling Latin phrases throughout his books and then having the phrase translated by another character...I took Latin in High School so it is fun to try to translate them myself :)

I only did not like one book by Sansom and that was Winter in Madrid .... a rather boring novel set in the Spanish Civil war

As far as Tim Downs goes... I like them all but especially First the Dead . I had trouble with the book for 50 pages but then it took off. Imagine... Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans and of the many bodies in the water he finds some that he believes were murders... his method of tracking the culprits made interesting reading for me.

Anyway... time to focus on reading and not classification :)

I don't think there is any argument here :)

It is June 29 1863, I am with a spy for the Rebel army spying on Union soldiers, 20,000 men. He must hurry now and warn General Lee in the story The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara

#107
P. D. James - begin with Cover Her Face, the first Adam Dalgleish book. I do not say it is her best book, but it's always advisable to start a series with the first one. An Unsuitable Job for a Woman, the first Cordelia Grey, is really a spin-off, you need the backstory from the earlier books.

The thing about slang is avoiding obvious anachronisms. Analogies and similes present particular perils. You certainly couldn't have Falco saying he'd got his wires crossed! But, colourful character that he is, he would have been using Ancient Roman slang and as far as I'm concerned Davis is free to invent phrases that sound right if there isn't a documented equivalent.

We seem to be hijacking this thread! Want to start a new one about anachronistic language in historical fiction?

#109

We could perhaps do a thread on anachronisms in general as it applies to Historical fiction... but other than you and I, I not sure how popular it would be :)

#110
Suck it and see.

>92 dajashby: You're right and thanks for the advice. And I apologize. Completely inappropriate.

>111 dajashby: Say what???

>46 Zumbanista: I think I have a must read for you as you and I like good novels of the old west.

I just started The Killer Angels which won a Pulitzer prize for Michael Shaara.... It is a novel about the 4 days of battle for Gettysburg in the American Civil war. VERY well written...

I am one third through it and will probably finish it by the end of Monday....cannot put it down.

>114 Lynxear: thanks for thinking of me! I heartily agree, the Killer Angels is superb. Hubby is the Civil War fan and he's colonized me over the years.

>115 Zumbanista: So you have already read it then... I heartily support your assessment :)

I'm in Lin'an in 13th Century China, with Antonio Garrido's The Corpse Reader.

#113
Sorry. Translates as "give it a try and see what happens".

>118 dajashby: That is not the way I read it....hmmm.... I am in my 60's, You are probably thinking I am current in modern slang. Your comment was not intuitive.

>119 Lynxear: Could be regional too. The Australians teased me unmercifully for using the term SICI (sickie) when I was training software. Take a sickie (or maybe chuck a sickie) = call in sick when you aren't (playing hooky)

#120
You are correct, it's regional. If anything it's a bit out of date - I am also in my 60's. I will try to be more careful about colloquialisms in future!

>121 dajashby: I see, you were being a tool by causing this kerfuffle, I would say

Just finished The Killer Angels... an excellent novel of the Gettysburg battle described through the eyes of the officers on both sides.

Next novel is another Historical Fiction, Light a Distant Fire by Lucia St. Clair Robson. This will be the third novel by this author. She is an amazing writer and I and actively searching for the rest of her work.

>123 Lynxear:. I see we do have similar tastes! I've only read (and adored) Ride the Wind by Lucia St. Clair Robson but would read anything she has written. I apparently talked non-stop about the book to all and sundry when I was reading it. Can't recommend it or the author enough. I'll be interested to see how you like this one - and what other one have you read?

#122
Very good, you could pass for a Pom any day!

>124 Zumbanista: I haven't read Ride the Wind but it is not hard to find so eventually it will be read.

Light a Distant Fire is a bit more confusing at the start... I am 50 pages in and it seems to be bouncing around a bit. I haven't settled into this one yet.

You have not read The Tokaido Road yet... I think you will really like it. It is a bit of a departure for her... it is about a Japanese courtesan who wants revenge on those who killed her father. She is a pampered person who does not know anything about the real world and is being chased by a ronin who is supposed to find/kill her... an excellent read and apparently it has some basis in history.

I see you have read one Bernard Cornwell... or is that your husband's read. If he likes military Historical fiction... surprise him with Sharpe's Tiger... you will have him hooked on a 20 book series (must be read in order). His Grail series and singles like Gallows Thief and Agincourt especially the latter are very good reads too... I don't like his Viking books very much though.

>124 Zumbanista: >126 Lynxear: Couldn't agree more about Bernard Cornwell. On top of the books already mentioned I would also recommend The Last Kingdom series.

>126 Lynxear: >127 Andrew-theQM: Such great Recommendations - thank you both!

1933 - I think. I just finished re-reading Lost Horizon by James Hilton & loved it.

>129 enaid:, I read that for the first time last December and was impressed with the incorporation of its own "all things in moderation" theme. Still a good adventure story all these years later.

>130 Cecrow: It was a really good read! And, bless James Hilton for being such a solid writer because I was quite absorbed by it. The issue of war and it's consequences seemed very current to me; especially regarding Conway(a character that I liked very much). I'd say Lost Horizon has held up well over the years.

in Hong Kong 1850 NOBLE HOUSE by J Clavell

>132 lbfjrmd:, awesome, an author I worry will be forgotten over time, always great to know he's still read.

I have finished Light a Distant Fire by Lucia St. Clair Robson. The basic thread of the story follows the history of the Second Seminole war though there is probably some license in the details. Good story nonetheless. Lucia St. Clair Robson is a favourite author of mine.

>134 Lynxear: I have a book of hers in my TBR pile - Ride The Wind. I read it once a long time ago and am looking forward to a reread, but I haven't read anything else of hers. I will add your suggestion to my wishlist. Are there any others that you would recommend?

>135 Darth-Heather: : I have not read Ride the Wind yet but I am looking for it :)

So far every book of hers has been a joy to read. But, as I described in >126 Lynxear: I strongly advise you read Tokaido Road I think this is one of her best books. A real page turner and I guarantee you will love the book.

>135 Darth-Heather: & >136 Lynxear: Ride the Wind is awesome. I'm from Texas and have been to Fort Parker a few times. A friend and I took a Cynthia Ann Parker vacation (why, yes, I'm adorkable) going to various points in Texas directly related to CAP and Ride the Wind.

oh, how fun! I love historical sight-seeing. I've always wanted to do the Laura Ingalls Wilder tour of the midwest.

Just came back from Enlightenment-era Europe (mostly). I just completed the 8-book, 3-volume, The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson. Quite a ride!

>139 ScoLgo: Woukd you recommend these?

>140 Andrew-theQM:

A deceptively simple question that is extremely difficult to answer... No wonder they call you the Question Master! ;)

Hate to be wishy-washy but... Stephenson is probably not for everyone. This makes his books difficult to recommend. Some people really like his sprawling style of writing. Others cannot abide it. I have read quite a few of his books and land firmly in the 'like it' camp.

Here are a couple of non-spoilery reviews for the first volume in the trilogy, Quicksilver. Hopefully, they help you decide one way or the other...
- The Moby Dick Question
- This Person Hated It

Keep in mind that the series is 8 books. You can get them separately in paperback, (probably in audio too), but if you get the hardcovers, you will get three novels in the first volume, two in the 2nd, and three in the 3rd volume. To further confuse the issue, book #1 is titled Quicksilver and so is volume #1 of the hardcover editions. Further, The Baroque Cycle is a prequel for Stephenson's Cryptonomicon. Should you decide to dive in, it might be better to read that first. Otherwise, the Cycle might spoil a few things that happen in Cryptonomicon - especially since it was published earlier.

Finally, I will add that I recently read Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul: Church, State, and the Birth of Liberty. This (very excellent) non-fiction book truly enhanced my enjoyment of The Baroque Cycle as it gave me a wealth of factual background regarding British society leading up to the times upon which Stephenson painted this fictional work.

I sincerely hope this is more helpful than confusing!

>141 ScoLgo: Thanks very much for the detailed feedback. The Moby Dick Question made me laugh! Certainly intrigued enough to pick up the first book and give it a try.

I'm in 1820 in A Gentleman's Position.

Now I'm in 1937 in Flight of Dreams, and so far I'm skeptical.

I'm currently in Rennes-Le-Chateau, France hot on the heels of the Great Devise and the secret of the Knights Templar in The Templar Legacy by Steve Berry. Most of this story is referencing back to the 1890's and the early 14th Century.

1799 in Imperial Japan, Nagasaki to be exact, in The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet: A Novel.

London June 2016 when England took its first giant step to recovering democracy and sovereignty ...

So it was fiction after all. What a relief!

Lol! Certainly a moment that will go down in history!

It is 480 BC, I am with the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae against the mighty Persian army that some say is 2 million strong. It is a suicide mission with the objective of delaying the Persian advance in the novel Gates of Fire by Steven Pressfield

I was just in the early 19th Century Battle of Waterloo in Georgette Heyer's An Infamous Army. I'm now starting her The Spanish Bride, with more of Wellington from the Spanish wars.

I spent a little time in the 1850s yesterday in The Christmas Wager.

Roaming between England, Iceland, and Greenland in about 1000 AD while reading Avalon.

I just finished fighting with 300 Spartans in Gates of Fire, an amazing book by Steven Pressfield.

I am starting another in Peter Tremayne's Sister Fidelma mystery series set in the mid-600's AD in ancient Ireland. The book's title is Badger's Moon

I read my way to 1950s Georgia via Toni Morrison's short, beautiful novel, Home.

I have finished reading Badger Moon. While it was a decent read the ending left a lot to be desired. Basically it was the summary where she reveals all which is usually very good but I thought the ending to be quite weak and something that one could not figure out on simple reading. So many red herrings.....

I'm in 1461 with young Edward, Duke of York in my second attempt with Sharon Kay Penman's Sunne in Splendour. The first time, I gave up about the 20% mark, but blame that on trying to read it aloud with my husband. This time I'm taking it slower, making notes to help me keep everyone straight and feel confident I'll finish it. The writing is really exceptional.

>157 Zumbanista: That's one of my favourite books.

I'm about to go off on crusade with Deus Lo Volt!

>158 Andrew-theQM: it always tops the list of Best Historical Fiction, but it's length is daunting!

>160 Zumbanista: I agree but love the long books by her, by Barbara Erskine and the Century Trilogy by Ken Follett.

>161 Andrew-theQM: the Follett Trilogy is in my TBR pile. Haven't read Barbara Erskine but just noted I have Lady of Hay in my TBR as well.

Love this thread! Leads me to so many unknown (to me) gems!

>162 Zumbanista: Lady of Hay, Child of the Phoenix and Kingdom of Shadows are her three biggest books but her very best! I love all 3 books and they all made my favourites list. I do want to read all 3 again. That's what I love about book discussions getting new book suggestions off others.

I like the Follett books I've read :)

I'm currently in 17th century Scotland doing a beta read for another author. However, when I'm done I'll be delving into 12th century Ireland to write my next novel in the Druid's Brooch series. This one will be called Misfortune of Vision (working title).

Currently in 18th century Scotland reading Outlander. Very good!

I'm in Kenya in 1919 at the moment in Circling the Sun.

I think I am in for a real treat... I am in the early 19th century in Nantucket reading about Ahab's Wife a novel by Sena Jeter Naslund

1743-Scotland and 1968-US in Dragonfly in Amber, the 2nd in the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon.

I just got out of the wrestling world of the 1920s in Champion of the World yesterday, and I spent today in Poland during WWII in A Meal in Winter.

I'm currently finishing my time within the pages of The Secret Language of Stones which has me in Paris, France during the World War era. This is my second entrance into the Daughters of La Lune as I previously enjoyed my stay within the chapters of The Witch of Painted Sorrows. This is my third MJ Rose novel for review but not my third Rose novel overall. I found that the Reincarnationist series wasn't as keenly whetting my thirst of interest such as the latter novels she's been releasing. What truly caught me is how she writes sensory fiction and uses atmospheric gestures to grab you front and center.

I devour so much #HistFic per year, you could say I'm a frequent time traveller! lol

I spent yesterday and today in the 1950s across the American south in Absalom's Daughters.

Sand Hills of Nebraska, ten years after the massacre at wounded knee with Dulcinea and Rose in bones of paradise

Off Cape Fear in 1769 in The Drums of Autumn, book #4 in the Outlander Series. This series is heavy into the history with only a smidge of magic realism in book 1....so I'm classifying it as historical fiction. Also reading Black Hills by Dan Simmons also a HF and I'm in 1876 in the Black Hills in flashbacks and in real life 1923 as Mount Rushmore is being built.

Just started The Summer Before the War by Helen Simonson, so I guess I'm in 1913 or 14. I can't comment about it yet, but I liked Simonson's writing.

FInished A Town Like Alice by Nevil Shute, which starts off near the end of WWII.

>173 Tess_W:
Black Hills has been on my wishlist for years, being an old South Dakota girl! Do you like it?

I just jumped into 12th century Ulster Ireland for my new novel! Irish Norman invasion... go!

>176 dkhiggin: All in all, I do like it, I'm about half way finished. If you are not into mysticism (Native American) and lots of Indian words, you probably won't like it....that is a pitfall of the book, I think. The storyline is very good, though.

I am in 11th century Scotland as I am reading Queen Hereafter by Susan Fraser King. This is an historical novel about Margaret of Scotland.

I am reading Three Sisters, Three Queens by Philippa Gregory. About King James IV and Queen Margaret (Tudor) of Scotland.

>178 Tess_W:

I don't mind mysticism a bit and I love learning new words! Sounds like I will like the novel if I ever get ahold of a copy...

WWII in London
Everyone Brave Is Forgiven

I finished Ahab's Wife an interesting read though it could have been 100 pages shorter.

I am moving back to Mystery for my next read

I am anxious to read this...I see some mixed reviews...but I have enjoyed most everything she has written,

>184 NHreader: If you are referring to Ahab's Wife, if you want a detailed description of life on the New England coast from a woman's point of view in the early 1800's. This could be a book for you. If you are one who likes a detailed story that unfolds slowly (except for that weird opening, that is revisited later when it should have been written) and seamlessly from being a young girl to that of a woman in her early 30's (guessing there).... this is a good read for you (as it was for me).

If you desire action sequences constantly during a read, you will be disappointed. There are some tense scenes that are the dessert rather than the meat of the book.

If you have read and enjoyed her works before then I would guess this would be a great read for you. Myself, I would look for more of her books as I like her writing style.

The One Man by Andrew Gross
Book Description
“As moving as it is gripping. A winner on all fronts.”―Booklist (starred review)

“Heart-pounding…This is Gross’s best work yet, with his heart and soul imprinted on every page.”―Kirkus Reviews (starred review)

Poland. 1944. Alfred Mendl and his family are brought on a crowded train to a Nazi concentration camp after being caught trying to flee Paris with forged papers. His family is torn away from him on arrival, his life’s work burned before his eyes. To the guards, he is just another prisoner, but in fact Mendl―a renowned physicist―holds knowledge that only two people in the world possess. And the other is already at work for the Nazi war machine.

Four thousand miles away, in Washington, DC, Intelligence lieutenant Nathan Blum routinely decodes messages from occupied Poland. Having escaped the Krakow ghetto as a teenager after the Nazis executed his family, Nathan longs to do more for his new country in the war. But never did he expect the proposal he receives from “Wild” Bill Donovan, head of the OSS: to sneak into the most guarded place on earth, a living hell, on a mission to find and escape with one man, the one man the Allies believe can ensure them victory in the war.

Bursting with compelling characters and tense story lines, this historical thriller from New York Times bestseller Andrew Gross is a deeply affecting, unputdownable series of twists and turns through a landscape at times horrifyingly familiar but

The Exiles and The Settlers by William Stuart Long (to fulfill my "book set in Australia" category).

The first book details (and I mean DETAILS) the story of a young girl and her mother who are driven to desperate straits in the grungy underground of London and sentenced for thievery to be transported to the newly claimed land of Australia. They, along with thousands of other convicts, are meant to start carving out habitable area along the coast, developing what eventually becomes the city of Sydney. This book is slow to get going, and there are a lot of characters to keep track of.

The second book has better pacing. The city is gaining ground, although the outlying farms are suffering greatly from antagonism from the indigenous tribes, who are of course loath to give up prime hunting land and water sources. The main character is now almost twenty, and determined to succeed in this new land.

The positive aspects of this series: the setting is fascinating, with lots of well-researched details.

The negatives: the characters aren't too badly fashioned, but sometimes they do things that are out-of-character to advance a plot point, which I find distracting.

There are about a dozen books in this series, and I doubt if I will seriously pursue them but might pick up the next one if I run across it.

1945 at the end of WWII with refugees in East Prussia.

Salt to the Sea by Ruta Sepetys

I spent the last couple of days in 1884 in Alaska and Washington in To the Bright Edge of the World.

1792 in Cornwall, England with Ross Poldark

Warleggan byWinston Graham

>190 nrmay: I love this series and am half way through it. The first book Ross Poldark will hook you.... enjoy

>190 nrmay: >191 Lynxear: This is a series I keep meaning to read.

Just finished Book 1 in the Hannibal Trilogy by Ben Kane, Hannibal : Enemy of Rome.
4.5 Stars.
Yet another trilogy that started with a good book, and grew on me the more it went along. An interesting and varied group of characters and rather a unique friendship that developed in very trying circumstances. The Second Punic War is something I know nothing about (apart from Hannibal's elephants) and am really enjoying expanding my historical knowledge. I look forward to getting to book 2 very soon. If you haven't tried any Ben Kane books yet, what are you waiting for!

>190 nrmay: >191 Lynxear: >192 Andrew-theQM: got it I my Wishlist, probably won't get to it till next year though 😫

I am reading about the late 12th Century, slogging along on the Third Crusade via Men Like Shadows by Dorothy Charques.

I am in India in 1799 with Richard Sharpe in Sharpe's Tiger, my first Sharpe book!

196> Enjoy and remember there are 19 more books left in the series. Either by luck or design you have started with the first book of the series.... not in the published order but in terms of Dick Sharpe's career. Be very careful to read this series in order. You will see his character develop as well as the proper entry of significant future characters (Sgt Harper for example).

You will be hooked after reading this first book. I have all but two books in my physical library... I am missing Sharpe's Skirmish and Sharpe's Christmas ... very hard to find in new/used bookstores.

>197 Lynxear:
I only have six of the books so far. And worse yet, I don't have the second one in the chronological series. :-(

>197 Lynxear: >198 dkhiggin: It took me a few years to collect all the books from charity shops but now have the full set.

>199 Andrew-theQM: Including the ones I am missing? {sigh} I think I might have a line on Sharpe's Skirmish but I have not had a sniff of Sharpe's Christmas...... {Arghhhhhh} I now find I have not read a third book Sharpe's Ransom... yet another book to find.

> 198 I think that is Sharpe's Triumph ... it is an important book in the series as it establishes Sharpe's relationship with Duke of Wellington that shapes much of his future within the British army... directly and indirectly... It should not be read out of order IMHO. I see lots of copies in used book stores here.

I am moving on to Ratcatcher .... it was recommended to me by @ Andrew-theQM as another Bow Runner book. I am looking forward to the read.

Hope you enjoy it >201 Lynxear:. This is a series I need to get back to. I read the first one a few years ago.

>200 Lynxear: Must admit I don't own Sharpe's Skirmish or Sharpe's Christmas which look like Novellas. May get hold of these at some point. I do, however, own all other books in the series.

Yes, I had to go on line to search them out. They were part of a holiday promotion and have very limited availability.

>200 Lynxear:, >202 Andrew-theQM: I've read all the Sharpe books with great enjoyment, including Sharpe's Skirmish and Sharpe's Christmas. It's about time for me to re-read some. I'm hoping Cornwell comes out with a new one. I just read his Waterloo: The History, a nonfiction book. It's very good but, of course, there's no Richard Sharpe to be found in it. :-(

> 204 As much as I hate to say it.... I think Richard Sharpe is retired as a character for Bernard Cornwell.

However, I wonder if you have read his books that feature the English Long Bow.

As a standalone I heartily recommend Agincourt... It is a novel set during the Hundred Years war. The hero is an archer who has murdered someone and in those days the way to escape being hung, you joined the military. This novel ends with the Battle of Agincourt in France... reading this novel, you will understand how archers, men-at-arms, knights and the halberd bearers, all work together as a team on the battlefield. As in the Sharpe novels, you will be in the thick of the battles.... you won't be able to put the book down.

If you like this book (and I guarantee you will) then you might want to read the Grail series Harlequin, Vagabond, Heretic as well as 1356 (the last one I have not read yet). The first novel, Harlequin (also known as The Archer's Tale), culminates in the Battle of Crecy in France where the English forces are heavily outnumbered but the French mistakes, combined with the superiority of the English Long Bow results in the defeat of the French. The rest of the novels has the hero continuing his search for the Holy Grail

I am not a fan of Cornwell's Viking series of books... they are not as well researched IMHO and seem to me to be just devoted to blood and gore... but that is just me.

I am also not a great fan of the Starbuck series on the American Civil war. The books are well written but for some reason they did not "grab me".

I am half way through RatCatcher. Finally the book is starting to make sense as a mystery. As a historical novel on the Bow Runners of England it is ok but I think I like The Emperor's Assassin better. It is also about Bow Street runners. While in Ratcatcher James McGee does give a cursory description of the surroundings, I didn't get the feeling I was walking along side him in this novel as I do in TF Banks version..

Also I have a nagging feeling that the hero, Hawkwood is patterned after Bernard Cornwell's Richard Sharpe. Also Jago, his former Sargent in Welsley's army sounds a lot like Sgt. Harper to me. There is a point in Ratcatcher where Hawkwood's military career is discussed. He is in Portugal, under the command of a useless Regimental Colonel who through his incompetence has his men cross a bridge putting his forces to the back of a river (against Hawkwood's strong advice) and loses most of his forces to a French counter attack. In disgust Hawkwood duels and kills the Colonel... and I am thinking.... hmmmm I have read a similar scenario in Sharpe's Eagle... Sharpe was in the Rifles at this point... Different name of the Colonel name but same location - Talavera- and similar scenario. Sharpe argues strongly that the Colonel's forces should not cross the bridge but wants to blow up the bridge instead... he is overruled and the result is a route of the British forces... Sharpe is put to trial for failing to follow orders but Welsley sides with Sharpe and The Colonel is sent home in disgrace.

This feeling nags me but does not take away from this book though it causes me to wonder.

I am in 1920s England and Connecticut (and now Canada) reading The Wooden Shepherdess by Richard Hughes.

>205 Lynxear: >206 Lynxear: My sentiments exactly. I have read the Sharpe series from the beginning, when the first book came out, and I think the early ones are the best. The Indian episodes are interesting from the historical point of view, but the dramatic conflict of Sharpe as a square peg in a round hole is missing. And some of the others look like a desperate attempt to fill every available time slot.
Thanks for the recommendatiuon for T.F. Banks, off to find a copy!

>208 MissWatson: Though he's mined his life and adventures as much as possible, Cornwell has scattered bits of Sharpe's early, pre-military life throughout the books. I think he could put together one based on his youth and early career after he meets that one particularly dastardly recruiter.

>208 MissWatson: I started reading the Sharpe series in order about 10 years ago. I think I only found one maybe two that were ordinary reads. I really liked Sharpe's Tiger and his battle with Sgt. Hakeswill. My interest might have faded as he entered the Rifles but the introduction of Sgt. Harper was a masterstroke for Cornwell. I devoured every book afterward as their relationship developed.

>209 varielle: I agree that it would be interesting to see Sharpe growing up in the streets of London. There could be many stories developed about his life in the orphanage and living by his wits. I believe he had to enter the army to escape the law as he was caught thieving something... I think that was his reason for being in the army. I am not sure he was tricked into joining... I think he had no choice in the matter... though I could be wrong on that.

I think I could reread that entire series and get more insight...one day I may.

>205 Lynxear: I did enjoy Agincourt very much. I read, I think, the first three of Cornwell's Vikings books, and lost interest. I've been looking at The Archer's Tale with curiosity, so with your endorsement, I'll give it a try.

>205 Lynxear: >211 jnwelch: I will second this endorsement. I also enjoyed the Arthur Trilogy which starts with The Winter King.

I would also personally recommend the first book in A Crowning Mercy Series which he wrote with his wife. Quite different book but really enjoyed it. Yet to get to the other two books in the trilogy.

>211 jnwelch: The Archer's Tale or Harlequin as it is also known is an excellent book. It is sort of like Agincourt in many ways but it has the added intrigue (without spoiling the story) that his father was thought to be crazy and had relics that were stolen one of which was the Holy Grail or so they say.

I found "The Archer's Tale" to be excellent... the Battle of Crecy at the end was an amazing read. Vagabond was even better to me as he develops his main character , Thomas Hookton, so well. The next in the series, Heretic, started to lose some of the steam but still all in all a very good read. I thought when I read these that there would not be a continuation of the series but I was wrong as apparently there is another 1356 and I will track this in my bookstore haunts and read it.

You will totally enjoy reading this series.

I agree with you about the Viking series.... I read Last Kingdom but did not like it enough to continue the series. With the Sharpe series and Archer books you feel that you are part of the story, in battle you are right there firing a musket or drawing a bow (I swear if I picked up a musket I could load and fire one in 20 seconds after one or two tries...hahaha) but in the Viking series it seemed I was a distant observer and I did not learn much about Viking culture and after a while the fighting seemed to be dull repitition.

>212 Andrew-theQM: I did not know that The Winter King was the start of the Arthurian legend by Cornwell. I may give that book a read but it would have to be very good to beat, What I think is the best series on this legend written by Jack Whyte

I read these books long ago and have not added them to my library and I should correct that.

I highly recommend you read The Skystone to start the series. The book starts with the exit of the Romans from England after losing their battle with the Picts and Scots and now the invading Saxons made it impossible for most to stay. A Roman general, Caius Britannicus, and veteran soldier/sword maker Publius Varrus decide to remain in England and maintain the Roman way of life in a place called Camulad (sound it out :)...). There is a dagger in existence that is sooo beautiful, sooo perfect and the metal so unlike anything else in the known world that wars were fought for its possession. Publius Varrus believes it was smelted from a sky stone(meteor) and he wants to find such a stone and make a sword from it.

There are 9 books to this series and you will be introduced to all the characters of the Arthurian legend through the series in a manner that really seems quite plausible to me.

If you like my recommendations so far :) make sure you source out this series... you won't regret it.

>214 Lynxear: Not read any Jack Whyte or this series so thanks for the recommendation. I will definitely check them out. I do own all of Jack Whyte's Templar Trilogy which starts with The Knights of the Black and White but have not read that yet either.

This is the order for Cornwell's Arthur series:
Warlord Chronicles
1. The Winter King
2. Enemy of God
3. Excalibur
I read all 3 of them one after the other, which is a lot of reading and felt they were a slightly different twist on the story. I would certainly recommend them.

I also have not read 1356 and notice it was written 9 years after the previous three and written after I read these ones.

>215 Andrew-theQM: Well Jack Whyte's version of the Arthurian legend is certainly a novel one using a Roman survivalist colony in ancient England with Saxons invading as the rest of Roman presence retreats from the island for the continent, as the start of the story.... but it really works.

I looked at the Templar series but I did not buy into it yet. I did read The Forest Laird which is supposed to be about Will Wallace (Braveheart) and the expulsion of the British from Scotland. The book was very long and I was disappointed in that Wallace was only one of about three main characters and it definitely did not seem like a stand alone book.... or so I thought. The next book is about Robert the Bruce... not a continuation of the William Wallace story. I was looking forward to the battle I saw in the Mel Gibson movie, BraveHeart... but it seems that is not to be.

Whyte is a very detail oriented writer and often gets caught up in that detail which can be boring sometimes and he has a tendency to let his main theme dribble out a book at a time :) This series though seems to be dedicated to major figures in Scottish history... but not the complete story it seems.

I also have not read 1356 and notice it was written 9 years after the previous three and written after I read these ones.

Yep, the same thing happened to me :)

Finally, when I read The Skystone, I expected Whyte to be some British scholar.... How surprised was I to find that he was located in my backyard of Calgary, Alberta Canada. I think he has moved now from here...wished I could have met him when he was here.

I will read The Winter King at least.... you have to read "The Skystone"... we can compare our impressions later

>216 Lynxear: The Scottish series sounds interesting, I will have to keep an eye out for those books too.

Given the books Jack Whyte has written it is strange to think he is from Calgary! Looking a bit further into it, it seems he was born and raised in Scotland and moved to Canada in 1967.

I am definitely going to pick up The Skystone and I will let you know what I think. The good news is that one of the local libraries has one copy.

Well I finished Ratcatcher and I really wanted to like this book but it got to more and more unbelievable as the story progressed.

The author refers to several events as "miracles" which got to be annoying after a while, with Hawkwood getting himself in impossible situations and being saved by a miracle. He should have been dead several times were it not for such miracles.

As a mystery it started out reasonably for the first 100 pages but it seemed all his clues seemed to come from bad guys about to kill him and telling him stuff about their actions. As a historical fiction, it lacked the descriptive feel of the various locations. He was kind of a minimalist, as he would describe the scene in short choppy sentences but you never really feel you are part of the scene. Many names of historical significance are tossed about but they were not overly involved in the story other than to be there... sort of Historical name dropping IMO.

I will not be reading the next in the series.

I'm currently in Italy in 216 BC with Hannibal and his forces, in the lead up to the Battle of Cannae, reading Ben Kane's Hannibal: Fields of Blood.

I finished The Wooden Shepherdess by Richard Hughes. In addition to visiting 1920s Connecticut, as mentioned above, the novel eventually brings us an in-depth look at the Nazi's rise, taking the reader through 1934 and culminating with Hitler's brutal 1934 consolidation of power known as the Night of the Long Knives. Some time is also spent with British politics of the same era. There is a fascinating description of the unintended economics of the German war reparation payments mandated by the Treaty of Versailles. According to Hughes, once Germany ran out of money and gold with which to make these payments, British and French financiers decided that the only way to make those payments possible was to lend money to German industrialists who could then rebuild and create revenue allowing tax payments to the German government allowing reparation payments to continue. By Hughes' description, once this began, twice as much money flowed into Germany in the form of loans as was coming back out in the form of reparation payments. And so Germany enjoyed a mini-boom for a few years, until the Great Depression opened a giant sinkhole under the entire process.

I am currently reading one of my favourite author's novels Ride the Wind by Lucia St. Clair Robson... every novel I have read of hers I have rated over 4stars... from the first 50 pages so far I predict my rating will be 4.5 or 5 stars.

I'm in Austria during WWII in The Chosen Ones.

I'm going back and forth between Malaya and Australia in Nevil Shute's A Town Like Alice. It is written as historical fiction but critics say it's a real story, the names were changed to protect the innocent, etc. etc.

Just finished Ride the Wind by Lucia St. Clair Robson. I have read this book before...about 20 years ago. While I understood the book was based on the true story of the kidnap of Cynthia Parker at the age of nine by the Comanches and I did remember some of the story as I came to it but it in no way interfered with my enjoyment of this novel the second time around.

I read another book on the Comanches written by Mike Blakely titled Comanche Dawn. This is a great companion novel to Ride The Wind. Blakely's novel is about the beginning of the Comanche nation when they discovered horses and use them to dominate their enemies. This novel ends in the 1500's. Robson's novel starts in the 1800's when the Comanche is at their peak but the expansion of white settlers encroach on their territory and way of life.... the two books complement each other in my opinion

Both books give an incredible amount of detail of life as a Comanche. For me, though life as a Comanche was brutal and the tribes fought each other... this was their culture back then, a way of young men to gain status and the women could be just as brutal... this was their way of life and it is sad to see how treaty after treaty was broken, promises not kept and the use of starvation and disease by the whites was horrible.

I gave both books 5 stars... if I could give more, I would

>224 Lynxear: Glowing praise!

About 1771 in Outlander Book #6 A Breath of Snow and Ashes and 1950's in Go Set a Watchman.

I'm with intrepid journalists in early 1960s Indonesia during the rule of Sukarno in The Year of Living Dangerously.

Mid 14th Century France 🇫🇷 with Nicholas Flamel, and current day France in The Lafayette Sword by Eric Giacometti.

Threads West
Maps of Fate
Uncompahgre
by Reid Lance Rosenthal

I had high hopes for this series, which takes place in the American midwest in the middle of the 19th century. A group of emigrants from Europe sign on with a wagon train going to Colorado and Utah. The author has a good way with the scenery and setting, but the characters are quite awfully one-dimensional. Good guys are All Good and bad guys are All Bad, while women have almost no personality at all until they get pregnant, at which time they are portrayed as needy and weepy.

I got all three books together, so I wanted to get through them in search of a redeeming feature. By the end of the third book, the wagon train has only reached as far as being within sight of their destination. I don't intend to read the next three. There was far too much 'heaving bosoms' for my taste - I don't mind that sort of thing in the right context, but this became gratuitous and took up far too many pages, which is when I started skimming for adventure scenes.

In the stone age, and more than halfway through The Land of Painted Caves. Although, it might be more accurate to mention this one in the Fantasy group. lol

>230 Cecrow: I liked the first two books in this series, but it starts to go off track a bit after that.

>231 Darth-Heather: I agree with you... both Clan of the Cave Bear and Valley of Horses were pretty good with Mammoth Hunters not too bad either but then the wheels fall off. The problem with Jean Auel is that she tends to pad succeeding books with flashbacks that make up to 1/4 or more of the new book. This is annoying to this reader. Also it is a bit of a stretch to have a heroine who invents everything from fire from flint and steel to the wheel. But the first two books are pretty good reads.

>232 Lynxear: "...it is a bit of a stretch to have a heroine who invents everything from fire from flint and steel to the wheel."

Perhaps she was a prehistoric super-heroine? ;)

I read the first two books back around the time they were published. After Valley of Horses, I was done - for the same reasons you all are bringing up.

I'm in 1885 London and also earlier in South Africa with the atmospheric crime novel By Gaslight by Canadian author Stephen Price. Enjoying it so far.

I'm in 11th century Persia with Omar Khayyam in Samarcande. Learning so many things I didn't know...

I'm in Barkskins, mostly in what will eventually be Canada but not exclusively. Currently I'm in the mid 18th century, but since I started in the 17th I'm really not sure how far I'll be going before it ends.

I will end 2016 in the State of New York in August of 1776, watching the movements of General Gage's troops in Diana Gabaldon's 7th book, An Echo in the Bone.

16th C. New World, exploring Florida with Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca and others on the (doomed) Narváez expedition of 1527 in The Moor's Account.

1921, commuting between London and Surrey with the Grevilles in Circles of Time by Phillip Rock, the sequel to The Passing Bells. Publishers recommend it as a Downton Abbey withdrawal substitute--there are lots of similarities.