Thoughts on Translations

sivani wrote about Kitchen by Banana Yoshimoto: I'll be joining in the discussion, but right now I am bothered a little by the translation - I get the feeling that the strings are showing but, not knowing Japanese, I cannot tell whether the awkward bits are Yoshimoto's or translation problems. Then again, I am only about 15 pages in - I will wait to see how things shape up in the rest of the book.

I've never been that keen to read a translation of a book into English. After all, how well does an author's ideas translate when a different language usually comes with a different historical background, different idioms, different customs, different myths, different beliefs, etc... So I've been waiting to read books until I can read them in their original language, (since I can only read English at the moment that won't be for a long while) but on the other hand, there are a million plus books out there I'm not giving a chance.

Has anyone tried a book in its original and translated version? Or read a book translated from their first language? Does the translation work well?

I am going to say something that perhaps will surprise you (anf others too).
I read Le nozze di Cadmo e Armonia by Roberto Calasso in Italian and, subsequently, in the English translation, The marriage of Cadmus and Harmony, by Tim Parks. I am a native speaker of Italian, but I have to say that the English translation is so good that it is better than the original!
After having experienced this, I believe anything can happen...

Paola

How could you possibly learn - and master - all the languages that you need to read books from all over the world? Have confidence in the translator!
Translators have a dual role: to introduce a new book and to introduce a new culture. Some things will sound "funny" because they are foreign concepts to us. The translator tries to present those concepts in a way that will be understood by us. As our culture opens to the foreign culture, new concepts can be introduced and the translation becomes more accurate and more "true".
A good example is Kafka - the first translation into French was very bland because it focussed on the philosophy behind The Trial; the second translation was more lively because, now that the concepts were familiar, the translator could concentrate on brining Kafka's style alive. This is why the same books get translated over and over.
You will always have some translators that are better than others, but generally speaking they are very accurate and work closely with the author (when possible) or in groups (even as university projects) to bring the essence of the original into the translation.

Thanks for your opinions aluvalibri and Cecilturtle.

I"ve read three books that I can think of that were translated into English: Pippi Longstocking, The Travels of Marco Polo and If Only it Were True (aka Just Like Heaven). All three seemed flat to me, like they were just literal translations of the events from the originals. I was not drawn in to any of them and didn't feel like I got to know any of the characters at all. I didn't feel like I was there, in the story.

But I have been thinking about giving some others a try. I'll see how they go.

Cecilturtle is right, absolutely! It would be great to be able to read ALL foreign books in their original language, but who knows if there is anybody on earth who can do that? I seriously doubt it.
In the not too distant past, I did quite a bit of translating, mostly art and some literature, and I can guarantee that it is a complicated and very tiring occupation. To say it in a few words, translating is actually the 'rewriting' of a text in another language, and it requires patience, dedication and a good (to say the least) knowledge of both languages. Also, the language you are translating into should always be your mother tongue, because only a native speaker knows all the nuances and subtleties of his/her language. In fact, I always and only translated into Italian, my mother tongue.
So, sandragon, give it another try, please! :-))

I'm always aware whether translations into English use US or UK variants. All the Haruki Murakami I've read has been American (which may be appropriate, given his fondness for Raymond Carver, etc. The same thing applies to Ryu Murakami, although I haven't read so much of his stuff.

But I've just read a book by Victor Pelevin, which strikes me as being a very British translation. This is especially the case when translators try to render slang. Does anyone else feel that this gets in the way?

Gregory Rabassa, the translator of Gabriel Garcia Marquez and many other Latin American (both Spanish and Portuguese) writers wrote a very interesting memoir/exploration of the art of translation called If This Be Treason. While this has nothing to do with Asian literature, it does give a lot of insight into translation. And he's a very witty writer, too.

Incidentally, Marquez was said to have said that he preferred Rabassa's English translation of One Hundred Years of Solitude to his Spanish original.

CulturalSnow, I have enjoyed Andrew Bromfield's Pelevin translations. Very readable although I had not thought about English variations....hmmm. I noticed also that Bromfield does the translations for the Boris Akunin mysteries (Winter Queen). With Pelevin, my problem was always that I felt I didn't always know exactly what he was satirizing!

I have to admit that I first discussed translations many years ago with regards to poetry. Imagine what the translators must do there! Not only do they have to do all things mentioned in the previous messages above, but they have to think about sound of words, cadences, and possibly even rhyme! I suppose that would also be true of translating a writer whose prose is particularly lyrical also...

Which is all to say, that I have a great respect for translators. In all my reading, I have found a few titles terribly translated (maybe two); but they are rare (which isn't to say that some books are awkward to read).

I love Howard Goldblatt's translations of Chinese Literature. He does all of Mo Yan's stuff and works very closely with him. There are some differences--for instance the English version of The Garlic Ballads contains a chapter or two that wasn't in the Chinese original (I'm guessing that Yan cut them because he knew that keeping them in would make the book immediately banned in China, and given that he's a member of the army, probably cause some severe complications).

He also translated Beijing Doll which I didn't like, and made it easy to see how well Goldblatt captures the original author's voice.

I'll also always go for a translation by Cyril Birch.

One interesting class in college, we had to read a few translations of The Book of Songs and compare them. It was interesting to say the least-- I highly suggest reading the Arthur Waley translation (very literal-- you keep the meaning but lose the poetry) and the Ezra Pound one (where you keep the poetry but can lose the meaning).

Also, when I was a research assistant my professor spent all summer trying to find translations she liked of the books she wanted to teach. For books I really like, I'll often read a few different translations, figuring that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

>9 kidsilkhaze: Pound's original poetry is indisputably among the greatest of the 20th C, but the Fogies wonder if you might have overstated his poetic merits as translator. Gilbert Highet skewered him neatly with this (from memory, excuse minor variation)

'Alkaios
Caius Properzius
Li Pu
--All great guys,
And I know 'em, see?

Perhaps it's our own lack of poetic feeling, but a Book of Odes in which Hep Cat Chung rubs shoulders with Ole Marse Shao just makes us guffaw. Sometimes the truth is in the middle, but sometimes, you know, it bloody well ain't.

I'll stick up for Pound as a translator of Chinese any day of the week. His translations are certainly flawed and I would never recommend someone only read his versions. But translations that are more "correct" are all rather boring and dry and lose the humor, beauty, rhythm, and phrasing of the original collection.

When I want to look something up or do something scholarly, I'll turn to Whaley, but when I want to actually read poetry, give me Ezra.

I often have issues with translations. My first experience with this was with Homer's Odyssey. I love the Fitzgerald translation because it keeps it in poetry, while others turn it into prose and I think steal the entire power of the piece.

However, I have also see how sometimes even native speakers cannot translate things well. I am a native English speaker, but I'm slowly becoming fluent in Dutch, and I had a job of rewriting the translations used at my university because they were 'too Dutch' in their English. It's a delicate balance between rewriting the work and keeping to the tone and style of the original.

In my experience, if you aren't satisfied with a piece of work in a foreign language, seek out another translator and see if you like their style more. It's all just a matter of taste, and as CecilTurtle said, there is a reason why the same books are translated over and over again.

I have read some things in their original French (Moliere, Saint-Exupery) and of course there is a difference, but I find that difference to lie in the essence of the way of thinking that goes along with the language.

This is, the words are basically the same, but when one learns a foreign language, one inevitably picks up a type of understanding of the sensibilities that go along with the culture, if that makes any sense.

Going back to Sandragon's first message, I have read hundreds of translated books with the original as a translation checker and, yes, most do lose, on the whole, in translation, though the translation can improve the content if the original needed tighter editing and the style if the original is poorly written.

There is a big difference, however, in the problems faced translating between cognate and exotic tongues. In the latter case, even when the words are "basically the same" (which they often are not), much must be lost in translation as both the connections and the order of the words may not be retained. I try to cope with this by creating gains in translation to offset what is lost to come out with a proper balance of wit. Samples of my translations from Japanese of largely witty poems with explanation may be read at Google Books. My most recent work, A Dolphin In The Woods (Touchstones gives only "Walden" for it! Well, I did help get Thoreau's other best book Cape Cod published in Japanese . . .) is full of such.

Ah, of course there are plenty of horrendous translations, too. A book of mine on the subject (Goyaku-tengoku) went five printings in Japan.