Godel, Escher, Bach

I just picked up a copy of Godel, Escher, Bach by Douglas R. Hofstadter, and, upon adding it my library, I can see 3400+ other member have a copy ... my question: how many have actually read it all the way through?

(Confession: This is one of those books I felt I "needed" in my library, even though I could barely stumble through a chapter, if that, of Hofstadter's Fluid Concepts and doubt I'll be able to get much farther w/this ... I don't feel guilty, though, since I got it at a book sale "bag day" and can thus pretend it was free.)

I've read it a couple of times. It isn't that difficult. I think it is more approachable than Fluid Concepts and creative analogies. I have also read Metamagical Themas which I liked quite a lot too.

I read it in college. It didn't hurt that I also took a math course that stepped through Godel's theorem.

how many have actually read it all the way through? (#1)
Well I think I have and that would be way back in the late 1970s. But to be honest I'm not at all knowledgeable about music and probably skimmed over some topics. But with such a wide-ranging book it would be surprising if some chapters did not appeal more than others. Like andyl I found it easier to read than the other two andyl mentions.

I definitely read it all through, probably in 1980, and have looked at bits of it occasionally since. I have long wanted to read it all again, but with new stuff coming in all the time and with my tendency to settle down to reading trivia at small provocation, it hasn't happened yet.

I've read all of Hofstadter's work (with minor exceptions) - starting with GEB in college, as many apparently do - and GEB's probably a good place to start. It's a lot more topically varied than his other books - as PossMan pointed out - and the serious, crunchy chapters alternate with (occasionally ridiculous) dialogues, so the heavy reading is broken up.

On the other hand, since all of his books are basically about the same thing, but from different angles (math/music, translation, computer programming, etc), finding the one that appeals most to your interests might be the best way to get at his ideas.

I read it about 20 years ago and enjoyed it immensely. It's really not that difficult, but then again, I love music, math and Eastern philosophy.

I have read it all the way through once, although I didn't completely understand everything in it. And I have dipped into it a few times since. I would like to read the whole book again someday.

I think Metamagical Themas is Hofstadters most readable book. I started Fluid Concepts and Creative Analogies but didn't finish it. It's more focused on a single topic (how to get AI programs to recognise analogies) than the other books.

The Mind's I (edited by Hofstadter) is good too, and very readable.

I also have his Le ton beau de Marot : in praise of the music of language which is almost a paean to the French language, but witten quite a bit in the style of his other books.

There is a bit of circularity to his books, so if you don't get what's going on in the first sweep, you'll perceive more further on. Sort of like a radar screen.

I read it all the way through in college as part of a theater set design course (oddly enough) and since then every once in a while I go back and dabble my way through parts of it.

I read about 33 - 50% of GEB a few years ago after I bought it, but it dropped off my radar when reading for coursework took over. Maybe I'll restart it.

I've also read it all the way through, although it was over twenty years ago. I remember it as an entertaining mash-up of ideas and narrative forms that I had, for the most part, encountered elsewhere (emergence, paradox, Gödel's proof, the structure of DNA, socratic dialog, baroque counterpoint, etc.).

I've been claiming to be "reading" this book for about a month now, but only last night finally started to get into some of it. Coming from a strong background in philosophy and logic, but with almost no background in music (other than really enjoying listening to it...), it's already grabbed me and seems really interesting.

Would anyone be interested in doing a simultaneous read and having an ongoing discussion about it? I'm reading it for leisure in the midst of doing a lot of (required) reading for my comps, so my progress is likely to be relatively slow. (I know, I know... talk about short notice, eh?)

Would anyone be interested in doing a simultaneous read and having an ongoing discussion about it?

I'd be interested, though I can't promise I'd actually be able to follow through. I'm on page 412 and haven't looked at the book for about two and a half years (I put it down when I was drugged up from wisdom teeth removal, and haven't gotten back to it yet). A discussion seems like a good way to refresh my memory of the earlier parts, and might also encourage me to get through the rest at a reasonable pace.

I just liked looking at the pictures...

Doh! I feel very silly, I hadn't seen the replies here until just now. I'm not sure how long it will take me to catch up to you, Zoe, at p. 412, but I'm sure I'll get there eventually rofl. Otherwise, maybe I'll wait until I get a few (3-5?) chapters under my belt and then just try and organize some thoughts that hopefully would jar your memory in terms of what you read a while back? Maybe by that time, others will jump in and discuss with us :) *hint hint*

I found a book group worked really well for this. We read a chapter a week, and met up in a pub to talk through whatever he was on about at the time. Pretty much everybody was hugely enthusiastic at a few points in the book, and flagged at a few others, so the group read pulled us all through quite well.

Hah, looking for this thread after being reminded in another thread, I found that I hadn't responded either! I should look at Book Talk more often.

So, is anyone else up for a slow group read?

Yes, thanks for reviving this Zoe. I'm still up for a slow read. I like MonkeyRobo's suggestion of a chapter a week, I could definitely keep that pace.

I'd be up for going through it again.

Perhaps some cross-posting to science, maths, and philosophy groups might bring in a few more interested people?

Done and done.

I don't know about a math group, but I didn't look too hard, either. Science & phil both show up in the largest groups list.

>21 philosojerk:
I don't know about a math group...

http://www.librarything.com/groups/mathematics

:)

Cheers.

> So, is anyone else up for a slow group read?

i'm slow. i'd be up for a group read!

i like of one chapter/week idea to allow those who get busy to miss a week and rejoin later. We just need a place, schedule, and organizer. KromesTomes, philosojerk, Jesse, MonkeyRobo, Zoe, any other takers?

Shall we just start, and see who jumps in? Maybe make next week (roughly the 30th - 4th) chapter 1, and have a single thread for chapters in bunches of... I dunno... 5? 3?

Also, the book is structured in a way that has a dialogue before each chapter - presumably we'd consider that part of the chapter (and not a chapter in itself)?

For those who aren't familiar with it, the dialogues are inspired by Lewis Carroll's famous essay, What the Tortoise said to Achilles - a play off of Zeno's arguments about movement, only Carroll uses it to make a point about logical deduction. Anyway, the article isn't long, and if you're interested, it's available here.

Hi there! Saw the Group Read thread finally, so here I am!

I will have to wait until I can actually obtain a copy, and I'm not sure if I will manage a chapter a week, but I'll try to keep up with you all.

philosojerk ~ Do you want the first discussion to be the intro (~ 30 pp) or intro + chapter 1? Perhaps we could discuss chapter 1 starting 4/7. Until then, people would have time to buy the book, read, discuss the intro, etc.

How much interest is there? Since a couple of weeks have passed since the last notice, should we cross-post again to other groups?

edit: in my case i'll need a day or two to find the book since i just moved and it's packed in a box ... somewhere ...

I'm interested. It's been over 20 years since I've read it so it's time for a re-read.

I took a look at it today. Not including the intro, there are 20 chapters, so we could just do 5 threads of 4 chapters each (or 4 threads of 5 chapters each, whichever) - this would give us roughly a month to five weeks to discuss each block of chapters, and presumably give people a chance to get through the intro for the first thread, too.

I think all those who have expressed interest have done so in this thread, so maybe if we start the first thread, we can just go leave a comment with a link to it on those peoples' profiles, and if you want, we can bump those threads I posted in the math, science, and phil groups as well. I suspect, as happened with the group read of War and Peace, more people will hop on as they realize we're doing it and get copies of the book, etc.

I finally found my copy of Godel - the cover is so faded at this point, I missed seeing it on my shelf. I got it as a birthday gift in 1980.

I'll give it a shot.

Marvellous.

I'm on holiday the week of 4/7, as it happens, but I'm still up for this in general.

Between the people here and those over in the Philosophy and Theory group, it seems like we've got a pretty good group together. I went ahead and started a thread for the first 4 chapters here, so anyone can just go ahead and start discussing when it suits them. I'm going to commit to re-read the intro and chapter 1 this week, in order to try and be discussing by around 4/7 as was suggested by Native.

There was a thread somewhere around LT which made an effort to track all ongoing group reads. I've tried to track it down this morning, but can't seem to find it. If anyone does know where it is, will they post a quick link to us over there?

I've read GEB all the way through, although it took me several tries. When I finally got all the way through and slogged through Godel's theorem, I finally "got" what the book was all about. That was something of an epiphany.

#34

Welcome to LT, and good luck with your cataloging.

Our postings here have kind of slipped away.

I think I liked Hofstadter's intertwining of themes from close to the beginning of the book, but my reading of it was several years ago.

This thread seems like the place to post this:

MIT OpenCourseWare video lectures on Gödel, Escher, Bach

(It's interesting that MIT developed this as a course for high school students.)

>34 Arthwollipot:

Thanks. That looks very interesting. I'd never have thought of looking!

I'm one of the (I suspect) many who managed about 10% before being terminally distracted. But that was decades ago - maybe I have more patience now ...

This is one of two books that I read in highschool that I feel shaped my entire college education (I majored in Cognitive Science and got my Ph.D. in Cognitive Psychology), my career, and my philosophy of life. I've read it MANY times since then, and am absolutely in love with it.

I totally would love to participate in -- or even help to lead -- a discussion group about the book. However, because of the complexity of the topics involved, I'm not really sure that I'm confident that a "virtual" group would be that successful. Maybe it's just old-fashionedness, but I feel like for a book of this type, an in-person interactive group would be more effective.

I'm willing to be wrong about that, though, if enough people are interested in trying.