harry potter and the SS/PS chapters 5,6,7,8,

okay here it is gang

I loved the way JKR descibed Quirrel when he told Harry he had to pick up a book on vampires!
"He looked terrified at the thought."

Was Quirrell always a nervous individual or just since he met up with V

hagrid said he was fine until he went to romania and ran into V

I thought Monday counted as the weekend still, no? Guess I needed to have read earlier. Will hit the book! :)

I was too hasty in posting, and used up my insights on the other thread. :-)

RE: Quirrell -- He was probably not all that fearless before, but meeting Voldemort must have taken its toll.

it would on anyone!

I found it siginificant that Snape is described as looking past Quirrell into Harry's eyes. I now wonder what he was feeling as he saw Harry for the first time especially the eyes.

I second the comments about world building on the end of the other thread. There are so many lovely details. I think the loss of these details are what fans complain about most in the movie adaptations.

On the bit (again from the old thread) about Dumbledore's few words. I loved it. Not just because it is funny and quirky but because it also captures how children feel about such times. When adults get up and make pompous speeches I suspect that it registers less that oddment would.

I was also thinking about how well she captures the fears of starting a new school- especially one away from family and the magnification of potential embarassment that can bring. I suppose it is easy for all of us to connect to Harry at that moment because everyone has been afraid of not being accepted or living up to expectations.

The first time Harry gets a sting in his scar, (I'm suddenly reminded of Frodo, but I digress) it's because Snape is looking past Quirrellmort. Harry naturally assumes it was because of Snape, which sets him up for antagonism even before Snape treats him badly in class. Nice misdirection on JKR's part, as well.

Poor Snape is in this position throughout the series, as a former DE, people see him through the cloud of Voldy and not as he really is.

#7 -- While I entirely and completely agree with everything you've said, I would add that Snape does nothing to help his own image as one of "the good guys," either. At least since the fifth book I've been making the point (forcefully and probably irritatingly, to anyone who would listen) that in Snape, JKR has done several very mature and interesting things for a children's book:
-She's created a not-very-likeable (unless you're strange like me) character who is, nevertheless, on the side of the good -- the 'lesson' being that you sometimes have to work with people you don't like; that just because you don't like someone does not mean that they're always wrong.
-She's created a teacher, seen from a child's/teen's point of view, who has a very multifacted personality. Adults can be such flat characters to children, in the real world as well as in fiction, and realizing that they're human, with quirks and shortcomings and long personal histories that you may know nothing about, is part of growing up. JKR did this a great deal with Dumbledore in the last book, but she's been doing it with Snape, to some extent, all along.

These points have been made elsewhere before, but I thought that, in light of the fact that Snape begins to come into discussion here (since he first appears in these chapters), they bore repeating.

I agree foggi, I think that is one of her best features is to create flawed characters especially flawed adults. And she moves beyond simple good and evil to complicated which is how the world is. Umbridge (jumping ahead) isn't a death eater but she definitely does harm to a lot of people.

I think it is part of growing up to discover that adults are flawed and don't have all the answers and people do good and bad things is one of the most subversive messages in the books (as far as children's books go). It is because she doesn't shelter children in a world that is more clear cut or condescending that is part of why the series is so successful.

I have one issue with LG's post, at this point quirll didn't have voldy on his head. Remember he talks about when he failed at the quidditch match and his master decided to keep a closer eye on him. I always interpreted that to mean that that was when Voldy attached himself to his head.

I could be wrong though'

I sometimes think, and this is pure speculation on my part, that harry scare twinges when he meets snape just because of the emotion that flies between the two. At this point Harry was carrying his mother love in his veins (he loses that protection in book 4) and maybe that lingered an emotion of something toward snape. Maybe it was his mothers blood that caused that reaction

^^wow that sounded so much better in my head^^

I think Voldy is already there because when Harry meets Quirrel in the Leaky Cauldron there's no mention of the turban. The turban is first mentioned at the feast, so I always assumed that Voldy had just attached himself. That & Harry's scar acting up.

Did he attach himself after Quirrel bungled on stealing the stone from Gringotts?

hang on
*checks book*
alright never mind i just checked he attached himself after the bungle at gringotts

I still like my love theory though

uh G Harry did not lose his mothers protection until Book 7,
I was a bit confused that you said book four

Why do you think Percy is such a prat?

I think Its jealousy

Polly, it says in book four when Voldy uses harry's blood to regain his body that he know longer has the protection. It's why Voldy can touch Harry.

Also doesn't DD say that he overcame that 'particular' barrier in his office after words?

There are 2 different magics there, the love between Lily and her sister, the blood between them, and the the connection between her and harry with her sacrifice.

#15 -- Maybe some jealousy, but also I think that he's trying to rise above people's perceptions of his family. I think he's a little ashamed of the Weasley clan. Remember, he's a middle child, too. You know how Ron saw himself as Head Boy and Quidditch Captain in the Mirror of Erised (oh, wait, we're not there yet)? I think that acting like a prat is Percy's way of standing out -- he just chose a really obnoxious way of going about it.

Percy is a prat, and where did this attack on my name from Percy come from?

Look the guy blew off his family, and while my family is a little strange (and I may blow them off cuz my family sucks)

my friends are my family, and even if I hated there opinions and choices I stick by them

the guys a prat

I never said he wasn't a prat! In fact, I said that he was! The question was "why," and I gave my best explanation. I think the Weasleys are great, really. :-)

I think every weasley excluding Muriel and Percy were great (and I"m going as far as including Flur in there)

Where's polly I'd like to continue my argument with her

yes G?

In DH they had to wait until Harry actually turned, seventeen, to leave because thats when harry's magical motherly love charm breaks....am I correct?

besides we're not there yet

*rolls eyes*

like I said, that was TWO different spells! Dumbledore "placed" the spell on Harry at the house. The protection Harry had through his mom was love, not a spell...

hmmmmm...
i'll have to research that!

I already posted this over on bloopers, but, it does pertain to Chpt 5. How did the Potters get so rich? There's so much about them that was left unexplained.

I thought it was from inheritance.

yes I believe it was an inheritance, like sirius, Jame's family was old money!

Is that canon? Or internet speculation? polly, get me the facts, I know you can do it.

yes ma'am, I'm sure its true but I'll go find proof

http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2000/1000-aol-chat.htm

If you look here you will find an AOL interview WithJo, she answers the question

I think the link is broken.

I found it by going to accio quote and searching potters in the characters category.

Also JKR mentions it in her internet chat on bloomsberry

I'm reviving this thread for two reasons:

First of all, to remind everyone to read chapters 9-12 so we can discuss them on Monday!

Second, I had an interesting conversation with a RL friend the other day. We were talking about how Snape and Harry's childhoods were more similar than either of them originally supposed, and my friend remarked on how Snape couldn't have known, upon first meeting Harry, the sort of neglect that Harry experienced at the Dursleys, because Harry acted very normal and well-adjusted. We thought it was an interesting point, and I thought I'd bring it up here for further discussion, if anyone has anything to add.

Snape was pretty close to Dumbledore. Since DD knew the whole deal with Snape/Lily/James, he may have tried to tell him a bit about Harry had been going through, to try to spare Harry any anti-James abuse. I doubt it would have an affect on Snape's feelings in any case. Dude had issues, took them out on Harry because he could.

Both Snape and Sirius treated Harry as if he were actually James or a James substitute. Both were damaged psychologically...hmmmm...

Thos are both interesting points. However, didn't Snape see some of Harry's memories. One would think that might have inspired some sympathy. However, I think the assessment that these were horribly damaged individuals is fair.

It is interesting how truncated or damaged childhoods appear throughout the series. Tom Riddle, Snape, Harry, Neville, Sirius, Luna has a loving father but lost a mother in a horrible way, Dumbledore's family is damaged.

The real center of loving families in the book is the Weasleys.

Harry saw Snape's memories, too, and while it did inspire some sympathy, it didn't affect the way he treated him. They still pretty much hated each other.

When I said that their childhoods were more similar than either of them originally supposed, I was referring to their initial reactions in this book -- And I do think that the way they treated each other, or at least the way they considered each other, changed after the Occlumency lessons (but, as Polly would remind us, we're not there yet!) -- though knowing something about Harry's past certainly didn't keep Snape from giving him detention every time he turned around during the sixth year. I like LG's point that both Sirius and Snape saw Harry as a James substitute.

I also liked LG point about the James substitute

I also like the image that the only completed family was the Weasley's. Which has now got me thinking. The Weasley's were the family that we all dreamed of, the over achieving mother, the understanding father, the crazy siblings.

sorry for that little rabbit trail...

I was also surprised Snape didn't treat Harry differently after seeing his memories from the years with the Dursley's. Dudley and his gang tormenting Harry was so much like James and Sirius picking on Snape, yet Snape would still make comments about how Harry was always struting around like his father. I wanted to shake Snape and tell him Harry was more like him that his father.

Remember, even though the Weasley's were the best family unit, just like a really family they still had their problems. Although Fred and George are great, it would have been hard having them as sons, and Percy certainly turned into a major problem!

My apologies for wandering away from SS/PS

I think Snape couldn't see the forest for the trees when it came to Harry. If Harry didn't look and act so much like James would Snape still have treated him as horrible as he did? Maybe he would have treated him bad but not as terrible as he did if say Harry had brown hair. Seeing a little James look alike running around had to make Snape relive the horrible years he spent at Hogwarts being teased.

That and the fact that, like James, Harry pretty much gets away with murder. He should have been expelled about a million times, but gets by on charm and quidditch skill (and reputation). Snape, as a hardworking nerd who never gets social acceptance, would have to resent people like the Potters, even if they didn't get his girl.

Re: #41: "Snape, as a hardworking nerd who never gets social acceptance . . ."

I think I just figured out why I like this character so much -- you just summed me up in eight words! ;-)

We accept you here, foggi. Probably because we are all nerds....

speak for yourself!

whatever, polly!

So sweet, Polly! (See if I ever go image-hunting for cherry pie for you again!)

tsk tsk, polly. :)

I'll be a nerd. :)

Don't worry all Mommy dearest is a nerd she is just in Denial 8)

Hmm, I want to post a photo but this is one of our more serious threads, so here's a link instead.

http://www.hometownfavorites.com/images/items/Large/hfca089.jpg

Okay I'm going to freak people out more and resurrect another one.

It struck me in listening this time how important Hagrid's description of Gringotts turns out to be. You kind of don't notice it because you get information that's important to the PS/SS story, but everything he says when describing Gringotts comes into play in DH. JKR actually really drives home the "there are dragons at Gringotts" thing too. I wonder if Jim Dale's inflections are making me notice these things more, or if I'm just in a better position to reflect on these things in the car.

I do love that. I can hardly wait until we get to discuss DH!

that is goign to be quite the scene

We might even get suge or LadyN or some other old timers to chime in on that!

I know that waaaayyyyy back when we started this, there were some who just wanted to do a DH reread. We'll have to make a big deal about it when we get there.

I can't wait for that one! I read it twice when it came out but now of course it's been awhile! maybe I can be more "objective" (as objective as I can be reading HP)

It'll be great. And even more so because the rest of the series will be fresh in our minds. (Like my mind is ever fresh. sheesh.)

Does anyone else wonder now what Dumbledore's true feelings about his "defeat of the Dark Wizard Grindewald" being on his chocolate frog card? After JKR's announcement I think maybe that made him a little sad...although having been in a bad relationship myself maybe not. But I don't feel like Dumbledore had any real bad feeling regarding Grindewald so yeah, maybe sad.

#57 -- I think it was long enough past that he could look back on it with at least a measure of equanimity. I think he got a kick out of being on the chocolate frog cards, and that he always had an excellent sense of humor about life in general.

I have a chocolate frog card of Dumbledore!

"Considered by many the greatest wizard of modern times, Dumbledore is particularly famous for his defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945, for the discover of the 12 uses of dragon's blood, and his work on alchemy with his partner, Nicolas Flamel. Professor Dumbledore enjoys chamber music and tenpin bowling."

Yeah, I know he was happy about being on the chocolate frog cards in general, I just thought maybe he would prefer that that little part not be there to be a constant reminder of how their....ummmm.....special friendship ended.

So is there a bowling alley at Hogwarts? I mean, what does he do for recreation during the school term?

As a knitter, I was kinda bummed his love for knitting patterns was not included on his CFC.

What are the 12 uses of dragon's blood, anyway?

I'm not sure we ever learned about all twelve in the books. Let's see what the lexicon has to say, you never know....

Other than what we know aBout Dumbledore being the one who discovered the twelve uses of dragon's blood, this is all it has to say:

First years are taught the twelve uses of it, and

The twelfth use of dragon blood is oven cleaner.

Hmm.

does oven cleaner really count as a use?
and technically can't you use it like Slughorn did

The lexicon seems to think it counts as one of the uses, just the least important one since the refer to it as the twelefth use.

I don't imagine Slughorn's use of dragon blood counts, either. ;)

LOL to think of Dumbledore sitting around thinking "Come on, come on! You said you'd come up with 12 uses and you've only got 10....think, think...
Just make something up....ummm....I suppose, #11 you could use it to fake your own death, yeah, that'll work and ummm....#12, let's see....ummmm.....OVEN CLEANER. It's perfect since wizards don't need oven cleaner, no one will ever test it! They'll simply trust my brilliance!"

Hehehe! So Dumbledore didn't know the twelve uses of dragon's blood! ;)

Nope, figured out ten and made the rest up to meet his quota! :)

It's totally something DD would do.

I would have thought some of the other uses would have been mentioned in the books. Maybe JKR doesn't know them, either.

that is hysterical, i wish i could have been an owl on a perch for the last conversation

You couldn't laugh then, G. ;)

I'd hoot

LOL, nice play on words g :)

I have to post this while I remember and then I'm off to bed.

One of my favorite lines in all of Harry Potter is after they sing the school song and Dumbledore says "Ah music, a magic beyond any we teach here."

That is all I have to say. Good night.

Belated goodnight to Biblio!

75: In relation to the Hogwarts Express I think this quote would be appropriate:

"Ah laughter, a magic beyond anything!"