What Are We Reading, Page 5

Time to start another thread.
I'm about 50 pages into Three Strong Women by Marie N'Diaye about a French woman whose smarmy Senegalese father kidnapped her 5 year old brother when she was a child and the repercussions throughout the life of the family. Very good character building so far.

I'm reading My Life in Middlemarch, by Rebecca Mead, which others have loved but which I'm afraid is annoying me a little in the amount of conjecture it engages in ....

LyzzyBee: I was attracted to that book, but I was afraid it might mess up my own life in Middlemarch. Another reason I'm hinky about Longbourne.

Still slogging through The Word Exchange, which is verbose, clever, clunky, and fascinating by turns.

Starting a new discussion for anyone who wants to discuss the problem of promiscuous reading habits. (Mea culpa.)

It's my birthday today so I gave myself a little present and abandoned Wise Children by Angela Carter. I'm half way through but got tired of forcing myself to get back to it. The writing is so choppy that even though parts are interesting a thread doesn't continue long enough to keep me reading. Ah, I feel better. Now on to the second Anne Hillerman book, Rock With Wings.

>4 Citizenjoyce: Happy Birthday! I am surprised that you abandoned Wise Children. It seems to be generating quite a discussion over on the Monthly Author reads group. Most of it is hidden by spoiler preventers, which intrigues me.

>4 Citizenjoyce: Happy, happy birthday!

>4 Citizenjoyce:, >5 vwinsloe: Yes, most of us read Wise Children for May when Carter was the monthly author: https://www.librarything.com/topic/190226

The writing style was ... interesting. Some of the stuff behind the spoilers is about our confusion as to where the book was going plot wise, which wasn't obvious from the beginning part of the book.

>5 vwinsloe:, >6 sweetiegherkin: Thank you
The book isn't bad, really, I just couldn't maintain any interest in it. Maybe some day I'll go back to it in a different mood. I can see why people would find it intriguing, but I'm not one of those people, today.

The book I'm reading right now isn't girly. I don't think it even has a female character. But I've got two rising to the top of the stack and one of them will be next. Suggestions?

-My Sister's Keeper by Jodi Picoult
-The Grandmother's by Doris Lessing

>8 JackieCarroll: Just a suggestion, but don't read Jodi Picoult.

>9 nohrt4me2: I'll second that, though that's not the worst book by her I've read. The book about osteogenesis imperfecta, now that was the bottom of the barrel.

>10 Citizenjoyce: I don't know that one; My Sister's Keeper did me in. I appreciated the moral dilemmas she was trying to raise, but the ending. Oy!

So after a month and a half revisiting the works of Mary Daly for an article I was writing (which has finally been published, here, if anyone is interested: http://bloom-site.com/2015/06/15/mary-daly-desire-and-exuberant-feminist-ethics/..., I've moved to an Audre Lorde binge. Partly, because she and Daly had a fairly famous split that I don't think ever truly healed, but mostly because reading Daly sent me into this mad desire to revisit all my early radical feminist influences. So I re-read Sister Outsider and Our Dead Behind Us, tracked down and devoured Zami, and even dug up a copy of Lorde's biography, Warrior Poet. It's been pretty exhilarating. Lorde is a little like Adrienne Rich to me in that I love her poetry and her essays equally well. Usually that doesn't happen for me. I'll like the way they talk but not the way they construct a poem, or I'll love the poem, but find the prose pendantic. Audre Lorde, though, she is a woman who gives deep resonance to everything she says.

>9 nohrt4me2: Really? I enjoyed Lone Wolf and the one where the protagonist accidentally bonds with a baby elephant--I forgot the name of that one.

So I started The Grandmothers. I read the first thirty or so pages last night and I know I'm going to love it. I'm having a little problem, though, because I'm reading my way through the short stories in Alice Munro's Family Furnishings between other books, and I'm finding that Alice Munro and Doris Lessing are similar in so many ways that I'm having trouble keeping my stories straight.

I love short stories if they are written by a truely skillful writer. So many writers these days think they should be mini novels with all the detail stripped out. A good short story is a rich tapestry created with a minimum of words. I always come away wondering how they did that.

>13 JackieCarroll: Yeah, really, I can't stand Jodi Picoult, but that's not to imply anything is morally, legally, or aesthetically wrong with you if you do, or that we can't be friends.

I also can't stand Harper Lee, Ann Patchett, Sylvia Plath, Marge Piercy, Fannie Flagg, and I'm pretty sure I can't stand Virginia Woolf, though I like to read about her.

I wasn't best impressed with My Life In Middlemarch I'm afraid - my review is here https://librofulltime.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/book-reviews-tempest-tost-and-the...

I love Fannie Flagg, but I'm glad we can still be friends. I can take or leave the rest of the list.

The Gaither sisters are back! I'm just starting Gone Crazy in Alabama, which came out in April as the third and final volume of the trilogy, following on One Crazy Summer and P.S. Be Eleven (and see my 5***** review of the latter). Middle Reader, but don't let that put you off.

>12 southernbooklady:. Thanks for linking your very personal, and very perceptive, piece on Mary Daly. Questioning how we should think about things and what language means, instead of reflexively accepting the norm, is a profound part of her legacy.

>18 vwinsloe: Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. They edited out my sex scene, alas (not me and Mary Daly, just to clear), but they assured me it was for reasons of space, not content. :)

>19 southernbooklady:. LOL.

I've started a book you recommended, vwinsloe, Wild Horse Annie and the Last of the Mustangs: The Life of Velma Johnston and am fascinated. Thanks for the mention.

>21 Citizenjoyce:. I hope that you enjoy it. She was an interesting person!

>22 vwinsloe: She was fascinating, but it's had to continue reading about the slaughter of wild mustangs for dog food. It's almost unbelievable.

>23 Citizenjoyce:. It is not unbelievable in the context of what was happening with wolves and other wildlife at the time, but I admit that even as a lifelong horse person, I had no idea of the extent of the mustang slaughter. Once they have made it clear what was happening, the book does move on to Johnston's legislative campaigns and relationship with Marguerite Henry and less horrifying subjects.

By the way, I am reading The Storied Life of A.J. Fikry and I probably should have paid more attention to what you said about it. Quite disappointing.

I seem to be out of step with the others here yet again because I absolutely loved The Storied Life of A.J. Fikry.

I don't remember if I mentioned that I'm reading The Clothes On Their Backs by Linda Grant, but I like it so much that I'm setting everything else aside until I finish it. It may be a while because, in my usual fashion, I've put off some work until that deadline is approaching at a frightening pace. I write best when finishing on time is nearly impossible, so I should write very well over the next couple of weeks.

>25 JackieCarroll: You're not out of step. Lots of people loved it. I thought it was just ok, but on the whole I think most people thought more of it.

>26 Citizenjoyce:. Agreed. Very light and sweet, but for me too light and sweet regarding some tragic circumstances.

I'm finally reading Orange is the New Black. I haven't seen the television series, so this is brand new for me.

I am listening to Wonder which is a highly acclaimed children's book. I'm not too far into it, but the reader's voice is really putting me off. Since the protagonist is supposed to be entering the 5th grade, I don't understand why they couldn't have hired a child actor to read the book which is in the first person. The woman who is reading it has put on a very cartoonish voice, and I find it distracting from the serious content of the book. Anyone else read or listen to this book?

#28 Haven't read it or listened to it, but remember a Tammy Grimes reading of Daisy Miller, which was very good except for the little boy voice she put on for Daisy's brother. It really does grate.

There are good voice actors who can do children's voices (am thinking of those who voice Lisa and Bart Simpson).

Have also heard men reading women's parts who sometimes approach falsetto. That's also annoying.

<29. I just reached part two of Wonder and discovered that there is a new narrator. Thank goodness!

>29 nohrt4me2: My own favorite: Sissy Spacek reading To Kill a Mockingbird. She captures Scout's voice perfectly.

I finished Wild Horse Annie and found it enormously frustrating. It doesn't seem possible that this woman could have worked so hard for so long and established such a broad collection of like minded people to save wild animals while thew BLM continues seemingly to serve the interests of small minded people who want only to turn them into dog food. I know it was within the last year that I heard a spokesperson from the BLM making the same old assertions - the horses are ruining the land and they are starving so they must be rounded up and removed. Makes me want to follow in Velma's footsteps and mix myself up a nice batch of daqueries.

>32 Citizenjoyce:. Amen!

I was going to work the last 10 days of the month, but I must subconsciously want to get fired because I can't seem to quit reading. I finished The Grandmothers, Which is the first story in Doris Lessing's book by the same name. Lessing's stories often make me feel uncomfortable, but this one is edgy in the way that Nabokov's Lolita is edgy. The victims were teen boys, and like Nabokov novel, this story wants you to think she is blaming the victims. It's almost too much, and the ending is particularly disconcerting. I need a break before I read the rest of the stories. They are called Novels, but they are between 50 and 100 pages each, and read more like short stories.

I also finished The Clothes On Their Backs, and it was the best book I have read in a long time. Lyrical prose and a dreamy main character carry you through the story. It's on my "read this one again" list.

And, on a lighter note, I read the first half of Kathy Reichs' Deadly Decisions. I'm not saying Ms. Reichs' books are without substance, but on the heels of the books I just finished, this one seems to have nothing to hold on to.

I'm probably the last science fiction reader in the world to be reading Ancillary Justice. I find her gimmick of having the protagonist refer to all of the other characters as female to be interesting, but not distracting as some readers have commented. So far, so good, anyway.

We don't seem to have an active Message Board, so I am posting this here.

Over in the Reading Globally group, Anoplophora is leading our fourth quarter read on women writers who wrote in languages other than English. She has asked for assistance here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/189398#5191432. So, all you who are thinking about women writers, please give her any ideas you have.

I'm reading The Post-Birthday World which was recommended by a friend. I'm about half way through and have found that it moves a little slowly, but the concept of the book, describing two different lives after a critical choice made by the protagonist, is fascinating.

Lionel Shriver delivers a few highly memorable turns of phrase, and I can't wait to see how it all ends up.

I'm still deep in my mid-century domestic thrillers, and probably won't come up until October (am doing a conference presentation on this topic then). But a friend recommended Old Filth by Jane Gardam (which I keep wanting to type as "goddam," my bad).

Anybody know this book? Thoughts?

It seems downright slow in this group this summer.

I'm reading The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry which, so far, seems to be a modern parable of sorts.

I'm listening to Hand to Mouth: Living in Bootstrap America. I am glad that I chose the audiobook, even though it is read by the author. She reads a little quickly, but other than that she is a very good reader, and provides the emotional impact that her words deserve. Reading about her psychological issues underscores, for me, the chicken/egg question in regards to the relationship between mental health and poverty in the US. I wish that we as a society would see the treatment of mental illness the priority that it is. Where are the charity fundraisers-the walks, runs, and bike rides-to fund donations to brain and behavior research?

>39 vwinsloe: That book has been on my list for a looong time, but, as a low income person, I'm still getting over being depressed by Nickel and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich.

There have been myriad studies about the link between poverty and mental health, poverty and IQ, poverty, poverty and behavior. NPR ran this a couple of years ago: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2013/08/29/216784944/how-money-worries-...

The sad fact is that it's hard to get people to care about poverty when they're already struggling themselves because employers have so many incentives to hire a part-time contractor workforce. Forcing people to work two or three jobs to make ends meet is a great way to control workers. They have no energy left to unionize, and they're so afraid of losing the jobs they have, you can pile work on them and ask them to work all kinds of crazy hours.

Some people tend to think this trend is relegated to low-skilled jobs at gas stations and fast food, but half the professors in American colleges are now adjunct or contingents. That this has happened in institutions that arguably have the most progressive-minded workforces is incredible. http://www.aaup.org/issues/contingency/background-facts

I'm listening to the audiobook Among the Ten Thousand Things. I like it so far, but I've read quite a few bad reviews, so we'll see how I feel when it's over. I think I'm on part three.

I'm reading the ebook Wolf Winter by Clare Francis. I like it a lot, but I've been exhausted lately and it's hard to read past a few pages at a time.

Several times in my working life, I was subjected to a workplace trick where they hire well-educated and intelligent people as part-timers. That way they don't have to give them benefits such as healthcare, vacation and retirement. Even the lowest level supervisors are salaried, so they don't have to pay them overtime. They hire minimal staff so that the supervisors have to fill in when the hourly workers are out sick or quit their job, and they do it for free. Apparently it's all completely legal.

>40 nohrt4me2:. Thanks for the additions to my knowledge bank on this subject. I think that you would like Linda Tirado's book. It's really angry.

>40 nohrt4me2: and >41 JackieCarroll:. I, too, worked my share of those jobs--McDonald's, a diner, Friendly's, Howard Johnsons. People wondered why I had melt downs and/or got fired so often. I absolutely could not take the sh*t that I was expected to take at sub-minimum wage without being afforded any dignity or respect. This book makes me feel totally justified!

I should have mentioned that the jobs I was talking about were professional level jobs in Hospitals. It didn't happen to nurses so much because there was a nursing shortage, but other professionals were treated terribly. Yes, I'm going to have to read this book.

>43 JackieCarroll: Alas, it happens to nurses too. I just finished The Nurses: A Year with the Heroes Behind the Hospital Curtain by Alexandra Robbins and found it to be a very accurate portrayal of the kinds of disdain shoveled onto nurses who, in the minds of some patients, doctors and hospital administrators continue to be forced into the role of handmaiden. I worked as a labor and delivery nurse for 21 years. It's a very rewarding profession, but in the end I couldn't stand all the politics and doctor appeasing. This was in a teaching hospital where the nursing force was unionized. It was even worse in the private hospitals, nursing was understaffed, overworked and frequently asked to do things we knew were wrong. I stood up for my patients and myself and sometimes got away with it, but it's a constant battle. The ones in power can do whatever they want, the ones doing the work are made to go along to get along.

Years ago it was OK for a doctor to yell, throw things, break things, grab you arm to keep you from walking away, etc. Not so much now, thank God. I worked as a Medical Technologist with a masters degree for 20 years and then left to start my own business. You don't know how bad it really is until you walk away and feel the stress drain away. It doesn't have to be that way, but if administration can find a way to squeeze another dime out of you by making you work harder, longer, with less help and for less money, they will.

>45 JackieCarroll: Years ago it was OK for a doctor to yell, throw things, break things, grab you arm to keep you from walking away, etc. Not so much now,
I retired 9 years ago, it was still happening then. How I hope it isn't now, but some of those nasty doctors, I don't know. Probably they don't grab you now, but throwing and breaking things, I can see that still happening. And the ultimate, of course, threatening you'll lose your job - always the aid of those in power.

>42 vwinsloe: I think that you would like Linda Tirado's book. It's really angry. Yeah, I do enjoy writing and reading angry rants. Here's another one:

Those "79 cents" buttons (to show how much women make in comparison with men) are real cute and everything, but they oversimplify the story. Women are more likely to be offered part-time jobs than men, and women are more likely to be sacked when they hit 50.

There's a lingering perception that a man hits his "prime" in late middle-age, but a woman is "worn out," i.e., she doesn't look cute and spunky anymore. Why does Leslie Stahl have to dye her hair, have "work" done, and starve herself, while Morley Safer can barely speak plainly and nobody's making him get an eye job or totter around in a leather miniskirt? What's wrong with the way Liz Palmer looks?

I've seen age bias work the other way; I have worked for two male employers who said flat out said they would rather hire older women because they were more settled. What that meant was that older women don't have kids that are such a drag for the boss to have to work around.

>47 nohrt4me2:. I agree. I think that the "79 cents" oversimplification sets up a straw man for the actual facts. People doing the same jobs do not often see wage disparities in their paychecks the way that they used to. It is over a lifetime, when women are primary caregivers, that the actual worth of their contribution is devalued. Of course, you still see janitors making more than pink collar employees because the janitors have "mouths to feed." But on the bright side, there are more women janitors now.

On another note, I just started reading Station Eleven. So many of the books that I have read since The Goldfinch seem to have grief as a central theme. Now I pick up a book in which most of the population died 20 years ago. No getting away from it in fiction or in real life--seems like someone in family or friendship circles passes away every year these days.

>48 vwinsloe: I think you'll find Station Eleven to find a nice surprise. I loved it, but that's because it goes all around Michigan, to places I know intimately.

I'm reading Unbridled Spirits by Stevie Davies, which is a rather old-school 'herstory' type work with an avowedly feminist, woman-celebrating and partisan style to it - quite different from many of the history books I read now, and reminding me of my student days.

A while ago I finished Go Set A Watchman and have to recommend that if you think you have to read it to join in the national discussion (or the Girlybooks one at http://www.librarything.com/topic/187486#) please don't buy it and put more money into the hands of the greedy publisher. Libraries should be full of copies.
I also finished a very interesting book about Iranian immigrants and nationals, Lipstick Jihad by Azadeh Moaveni which raises the problems I think many (most?) immigrants feel about being the eternal outsider.
I also finished a re read of Life After Life after having read its sequel A God in Ruins which is very good, but not the wonder Life is.
Right now I'm listening to The Last Report on the Miracles at Little No Horse about a woman who becomes a priest and ministers to the Ojibwe. Louise Erdrich in her usual fine form.

>51 Citizenjoyce:. I'm sure that you must have seen that at least one bookstore (in Michigan) is refunding customers who bought GSAW. http://www.mhpbooks.com/why-brilliant-books-is-offering-refunds-to-customers-who...

>52 vwinsloe: Thanks for that. If I had bought the book, which fortunately I didn't, I certainly would have appreciated a refund.

>52 vwinsloe:, >53 Citizenjoyce: Most of the bookstores I know have liberal return/refund policies as long as the book is not damaged.

>54 southernbooklady:. That is undoubtedly true. But it is the independent bookseller's very public indictment of the misleading marketing by the publisher that is newsworthy. For example:

"Internally, we were bemused by the urging of HarperCollins for booksellers to hold midnight readings, screenings of the movie, all manner of inducements, to get the book sold on day one. Add to that the strict embargo that excites the public, but gives booksellers a wry, knowing smile.

Maybe we’re cynical, but it all pointed to a desperate attempt to get folks to buy the book before they realized what it actually was."

>55 vwinsloe: Internally, we were bemused by the urging of HarperCollins for booksellers to hold midnight readings, screenings of the movie, all manner of inducements, to get the book sold on day one. Add to that the strict embargo that excites the public, but gives booksellers a wry, knowing smile.

I suppose working in the industry my perspective is pretty different, since none of those things are at all unusual for a book considered to get lots of attention. Embargoes are standard on hot titles -- in fact, they were lobbied for by the indie bookstore community because small stores were often losing out on sales to big box stores who usually received their shipments of important titles first, and often put them right on sale. Movie screenings and what not are all par for the course. Midnight openings are held for any new title that carries that kind of fan base -- from Harper Lee to Stephen King to Harry Potter.

So I guess I'm cynical in the other direction. All the publicity so far as appeared to me to be not extraordinary, but notably ordinary. I don't think the publisher was "desperate" -- just the opposite. It could have been a much rougher book and still would have had guaranteed sales. Really, if they were going for the outrageously shameless, they would have given the book the Sweet Potato Queens or Red Hat Ladies treatment.

It also seems to me that "what the book actually was" was pretty clear from the start, but once again, I'm an industry insider, in the South, so I've been paying attention. Pretty much every news article I've seen, including interviews with the publisher, has called Go Set a Watchman "the first draft of the novel that would become To Kill a Mockingbird." It is very much that.

Anyway, I don't think there is anything nefarious going on, and while its true that Lee presumably kept this manuscript under wraps for a reason, these things have a way of surfacing eventually. If she didn't want it published, someone should have burned it. And while I don't agree with much of Ursula Le Guin's points above, I do agree that it has done Lee herself little harm to have the manuscript brought out into the light of day.

I haven't said much about this book because I don't plan to read it, but I want to say that I haven't seen HarperCollins use any dishonest or unusual promotional techniques. I have read over the reviews, which are mixed, and the rating is about 3.5, I think, which is about average. Based on that, I don't think the average customer is terribly disappointed. As far as bookstores giving refunds goes, that is, a clever advertising technique that will probably pay big dividends.

>56 southernbooklady: & >57 JackieCarroll:. I guess that was just one bookseller's opinion then. Personally, I saw a lot of hype about GSAW including lots of erroneous information, but that could have been the media. I do think that it is unusual to publish the first chapter electronically for free, but maybe not, I'm not in the industry.

I am reading Americanah now, and just started listening to Dr. Mutter's Marvels.

>37 vwinsloe:

holy shit lionel shriver is a woman!

and while i'm catching up on a thread that i've neglected for almost 2 months, thanks for this essay,
>12 southernbooklady:.

and
>34 JackieCarroll:

i'd never heard of the clothes on their backs and see that it has widely varying opinions, but booker and orange nominations and everyone agrees the language/writing is superb. so i'm in, thanks for the rec!

>59 overlycriticalelisa: I absolutely loved it, and I thought she was innovative in the way she used clothes to say so much. You'll want to really pay attention to what everyone is wearing.

>58 vwinsloe: You can get the first chapter or two of most upcoming or new releases at the publisher's website. I love mysteries, and at criminalelement.com you can get extended previews of McMillan's upcoming books, plus a lot of other cool stuff. I understand they have similar sites for other genre, but mystery is my thing.

I just started The All-Girl Filling Station's Last Reunion by Fannie Flagg for the Monthly Author Reads.

>58 vwinsloe: I do think that it is unusual to publish the first chapter electronically for free, but maybe not, I'm not in the industry.

It's not so unusual, except that places to publish long-form work are more and more rare. The Atlantic, Harper's and The New Yorker are the only ones I know that will do so regularly, and many of the things you read in those are either first chapters of books coming out, or excerpts from books already released. The organization I work for picks about a dozen forthcoming books a season to highlight, and some of those will provide first chapters for people to download and read.

>59 overlycriticalelisa:. LOL and she writes beautifully, too.

>>60 JackieCarroll: & >61 southernbooklady:. I had no idea that the practice of publishing first chapters was not unusual. Again, the press certainly made it sound that way.

And I'm putting The Clothes on Their Backs on my wishlist as well!

>59 overlycriticalelisa: >holy shit lionel shriver is a woman!
Ha, ha. A nice little surprise. I felt the same way when I discovered it.

>62 vwinsloe: i also really liked The Clothes on Their Backs.

>62 vwinsloe:, >63 Citizenjoyce:

i've been planning on reading a couple of her books, but is it wrong of me to be more excited to read them now that i know she's not a man?

>65 overlycriticalelisa: Maybe, but that's the way I felt too.

>66 Citizenjoyce:

on the gender of authors: http://jezebel.com/homme-de-plume-what-i-learned-sending-my-novel-out-und-172063...

just finished the admirer by karelia stetz-waters for a mystery book club. even though i knew who the killer was almost right away (and seriously, i never can figure it out) i still thought it was suspenseful and fun. not altogether believable in parts, but still enjoyed it.

>67 overlycriticalelisa: good article, but, sheesh.

>32 Citizenjoyce: Where are the charity fundraisers-the walks, runs, and bike rides-to fund donations to brain and behavior research?

Out of the Darkness is an annual fundraiser walk for suicide prevention (proceeds go to research on brain/behavior research). There are undoubtedly others, but few charity walks/runs/bike rides get the notice that Race for the Cure, March of Dimes, and the MS Foundation ones do, being as those are much bigger national organizations with local chapters as well.

Recently I started Bridget Jones: Mad About the Boy on audio and I Still Dream About You by Fannie Flagg in print.

>69 sweetiegherkin: That wasn't my comment about the need for more research into behavior, but I agree with it. I was just discussing with my sister the fact that some people with emotiuonal problems are able to get disability payments. She said, "I see them all the time. They're young and strong, there's no reason they can't just get a job and support themselves." Since we think disabilities are only things that can be seen, it's often difficult to accept the devastating effects of emotional problems.

Sorry, should have been at >39 vwinsloe:

And, yes, it is very difficult to see emotional / behavioral disabilities. I was just discussing this with someone at work ... she has an autistic nephew and was very excited to be going on vacation on a cruise ship with staff trained in autism awareness. Too often children with autism are viewed by non-aware bystanders as kids just "acting up." To be fair, it is sometimes difficult to tell the difference, but people make a lot of assumptions quickly.

Harkening back to the discussion of Wild Horse Annie, I just read this today: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/08/iconic-arizona-wild-horses-under-extermi...
Same ol', same ol' though this time wild horses are a threat to people.

>72 Citizenjoyce:. Unbelievable.

Here's the other part of the equation:

As of July 2015, there are currently over 46,000 horses and burros up for adoption that cost the BLM $43 million dollars/year to maintain "off range" (holding pens etc) last year with only a bit over 2000 adoptions.

http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/whbprogram/history_and_facts/quick_facts.html

I suspect the horses/hazardous thing is being conflated in the article linked in >72 Citizenjoyce: . Some of the animal groups are known to do that. :-) Hopefully that group is working on finding adoptive homes for the animals beyond the range's carrying capacity.

I've read two mysteries by women: Deception by Denise Mina and Don't Look Back by Karin Fossum.

While we're sharing articles, here's one I read in the NYT. Viva all you of a certain age on here!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/fashion/im-too-old-for-this.html

>76 nohrt4me2: Love it.
>74 streamsong: BLM has consistently overestimated the number of wild horses and underestimated the capacity of the land to support them. Placing them in expensive "holding pens" is certainly not the answer to allowing them to remain wild. As for animal support groups conflating the evils of the BLM, for the most part we don't know the extent to which the BLM bows to the requests of ranchers in exterminating these animals. I see the conflating being, for the most part, on the BLM side.

>77 Citizenjoyce: Yes, that's certainly what some of the animal groups are saying. I'm curious as to what your solution would be to a population that doubles every four years?

>78 streamsong: Birth control. Animal adoptions that are verified as adoptions and not meat packing operations. Mostly letting the animal groups who know about the horses and want to keep them alive and healthy have the main say in their management rather than ranchers who have no concern for their well being.

>79 Citizenjoyce: I really think we should drop it on this thread because we're hijacking it from its discussion of women and books. I think we're so far apart on issues and answers that we'd be at this forever. I'll just say I disagree with what you posted in >79 Citizenjoyce: and you can totally disagree with my disagreeing. :-)

I finally put my thoughts about Go Set a Watchman into some kind of coherence, if anyone is interested:

http://www.openlettersmonthly.com/likefire/

Basically, I think the book is worth reading, but it is neither a coherent examination of cultural racism, nor a well-written story. But there are parts that are well-written, and they are very well-written.

(x-posting in reading books by women)

>80 streamsong: I've enjoyed setting the books aside to discuss other issues from time to time, but I can see your point if we have others that only want to talk about the books.

I'm reading The All-Girl Filling Station's Last Reunion by Fannie Flagg for the monthly author reads. I just received Women Crime Writers: Four Suspense Novels of the 1940s in the mail and I can't wait to finish what I have going so I can read it.

>81 southernbooklady:. Thanks for posting that. You should probably post it here https://www.librarything.com/topic/187486 too, because that thread is linked to the book's page.

>83 vwinsloe: will do!

>82 JackieCarroll:, I loved Laura and The Blank Wall. Reminds me I need to update my domestic thrillers discussion with links to the last three books in my series. You might also like Caspary's Bedelia.

Also recommend Vera Caspary's autobiography, The Secrets of Grown-ups. Very frank, lively discussion of what it was like to grow up at the beginning of the 20th century and navigate the mid-century publishing and screenwriting industries.

Why aren't we still reading Caspary and teaching women about her in lit programs??

I've read and reviewed the somewhat disappointing new collection of much of Shirley Jackson's unpublished work, Let Me Tell You: New Stories, Essays, and Other Writings and the first of the Inspector Sejer mysteries, Eva's Eye.

I doubt that anyone would be interested in the book that I am currently reading entitled, Equal to the Challenge, but I mention it in thinking about the two women who passed the US Army Ranger training for the first time recently. Of course, they won't actually be able to become Rangers because they don't have the "right" genitalia. Reading Equal to the Challenge, it brings home how, within my life time, women were barred from participating in so many areas for completely sexist, irrational reasons. We've come a long way, but, sadly, we have a long way to go.

>87 vwinsloe: I thought I heard there was some kind of determination going to be made soon about women in combat with the marines being the most resistant. Maybe they'll actually get to use their skills after all.

I don't think I've posted in this iteration of the thread yet. I just finished two Gillian Flynn books, Sharp Objects and Dark Places, and am now musing on the "problem" of unlikable women characters in novels/movies. I enjoyed both books. I am introducing my son to Judy Blume and he is enthusiastic about the Fudge books; she remains a compelling writer for kids! Just started The Family Tree by Sheri S. Tepper, which is certainly interesting and has "I want to read it" quality, but I have no idea what it's about or where it's going. Now I'm caught up, I think!

>88 Citizenjoyce:. Yes. In 2013, the President issued a request that the Pentagon order all branches of the armed forces to open up ground combat roles to women by 2016, barring any exceptions that they can justify. The Pentagon has given itself until January 2016 to pinpoint which roles, if any, should stay off-limits to women.

Somehow, I can't think of a single one.

Giving women equal opportunity to go into combat and suffer loss of limb and sanity, I suppose, is something feminists have to buy into, whether they approve of the military industrial complex or not.

But what about this: The determination for combat-readiness is all based on standards devised by males, rigged to exploit the strengths of male bodies, and dictated by war strategies that have been devised by males.

Why do women always have to prove they can play the men's game in order to be accepted or succeed?

My guess is there would be no question about whether women are combat-ready if women had been the ones writing the rules of war to play to their strengths.

>91 nohrt4me2:. Exactly. Studies say that women typically have a higher tolerance for temperature extremes than men. So if I was on a mission in which the ability to survive temperature extremes was essential for my rescue, I would definitely want a woman to be assigned to rescue me rather than the male with fabulous upper body strength.

>92 vwinsloe: One of my concerns--and I suppose this veers into the realm of science fiction--is that women get so good at "leaning in" and playing ManGames that their own strengths are devalued and eventually devolve out of the human gene pool.

Some studies suggest, for instance, that women see gradations in color better than men and are quicker at picking up variations of speech than men. I can think of any number of areas where these abilities might be useful, even lifesaving or adaptable to combat situations. However, if, women decide they want to play in ManWorld under ManRules, where color differentiation or the ability to understand people who "talk funny" is not valued, might we lose that skill?

All due respect to fabulous upper body strength and the resulting eye candy one might enjoy after being rescued in that extreme temperature environment you describe, but I'm sick of women having to try to pass the ManGate in order to "succeed."

I guess I'm gettin' old ...

I'm almost finished with The Fortune Teller's Daughter which is equally about physics and fortune telling, a nice diversional read.
I just finished Black Ships, Jo Graham's take on the Iliad. I can't imagine being the type of scholar that could write this book. The women do all the "womanly" things, the men go to war.
Recently I read Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari (a man) about the cultural basis for human existence. He tries to explain why, in almost all cultures, most of the power resides in males. He gives three reasons, 1- men are stronger than women; 2- evolution has resulted in males being more aggressive and females being more nurturing; and 3- I can't remember what the third one was. However in each case he gives very reasonable arguments that show this can't be the reason men hold the power and make the laws. His conclusion, he doesn't know why. First of all, I respect someone who admits they don't know what they don't know. Secondly, he thinks we're evolving out of this "ManGate" thing which seems to be true, but if we don't know why we're here, it does make it harder to get out.

>93 nohrt4me2: & >94 Citizenjoyce:. I think that "might = right" is all the reason that anyone in history has needed to dominate other people.

The book that I am reading Equal to the Challenge points out that in sports where a woman competes on par with men (sailing, equestrian, shooting, car racing, etc.) all she needs is a tool.

Technology is now providing those tools and leveling the playing field somewhat. As that happens, perhaps women will be valued for their own strengths, as individuals and as a gender.

I would love to see a woman POTUS in my lifetime; A thing that I was told as a child was impossible.

Jackie - why not read Jodi Picoult? I was biased against her a long time, on the basis of her popularity (?!) but I've been surprised to find I enjoyed a couple of her books. She's no George Eliot, but that's the point about George Eliot. : ) I really enjoy the way she drops me into a different world for a time.

>96 ziziaaurea: I do read Jodi Picoult. I just downloaded another of her audio books onto my phone and bought the book she wrote with her daughter for my granddaughter. I think there are a couple of group members that don't care for her, but I'm fond of her books.

>95 vwinsloe:

Equal to the Challenge points out that in sports where a woman competes on par with men (sailing, equestrian, shooting, car racing, etc.) all she needs is a tool.

Technology is now providing those tools and leveling the playing field somewhat. As that happens, perhaps women will be valued for their own strengths, as individuals and as a gender.

I'd like to be more optimistic, but I'm not.

As long as women insist on competing WITH men in the games and structures devised BY men to play to MEN'S strengths, women are going to look like second-bests (at best) or cheaters at worst for using "tools."

I understand that if you want to make a living in this world, you're probably going to have to play by ManRules, and that there are plenty of "successful" female collaborators (ouch! maybe "collaborators" is too strong, but I'm feeling tetchy today) who will help enforce them.

I watched with interest the women who passed the Army Rangers test on TV last night. They were lauded by their male team leaders for being the ones to pick up the slack and carry the automatic weapon when the other men wouldn't. In some ways I was heartened.

But in other ways, I felt this was more of the same old shit: Women have always found their niche by being willing to do the jobs that men reject because they know it will impede their ability to succeed.

>98 nohrt4me2:.

"Women have always found their niche by being willing to do the jobs that men reject because they know it will impede their ability to succeed."

But that was not the case here. There were many, many men who wanted those jobs (as well as other women.) The fact was that it was simply beyond the endurance of the others.

And in the military, the fact that women cannot hold some combat jobs makes it impossible for them to climb the necessary rungs of the ladder to succeed in their chosen careers. Combat jobs are prerequisite for advancement in the military. The inability to hold these jobs impedes their ability to succeed.

I don't think that all women want to do what these women want to do. It is not something that I want to do. I think it is only a tiny fraction of women. But they should damn well have the opportunity to do it.

>99 vwinsloe: Well, I don't want to pick a fight here. I agree that women should be able to compete in any type of ManGame if that's what they want.

Maybe my read on the situation with the Army Rangers is jaundiced, but the team leaders couldn't carry the guns anymore, and none of the men would agree to because it would impede their individual ability to make it through the course.

The women picked up the guns and carried them. In doing so, they were carrying all the men and jeopardizing their own ability to get through the course.

But, they made it. Yippee for them, they proved themselves in the ManGame.

Now we have more people willing to kill other people for whatever altercation our ManGovernment wants to get us embroiled in.

Excuse me if I don't get out my flag and wave it around.

>100 nohrt4me2:. No one is asking you to wave a flag. But I think the military is not just just a mangame. It's an unfortunate necessity.

And let's not stereotype what is properly a man's game and what is properly a woman's game. It is my hope that some day we can just accept what an individual's game is regardless of gender and allow that individual reach their full potential.

>101 vwinsloe: I was being careful not to stereotype. Did I do so unwittingly perhaps? Didn't mean to.

>102 nohrt4me2:. It seemed that way to me, but I was reading about Kathy Kusner having to sue in 1967 to obtain her jockey's license, because racing is a man's game.

In any event, I have finished Equal to the Challenge and just started The Orchardist. It's a good day for a book and a cup of tea on the New England coast. Soft rain all day and about 70 degrees, and fitting with the book's location in the Pacific Northwest.

>103 vwinsloe: what did you think of The Orchardist? I had several good cries with it, but now, a few weeks after finishing it, I think it might have been too sappy and sentimental. I'm going to look for more books by the author.

>103 vwinsloe: the pacific northwest is hot and smoke/ash filled from the wildfires that are raging, with more heat and drought in sight. =(

rereading a favorite, which is a favorite in spite of pretty much everything she has to say. the fountainhead

>104 JackieCarroll:, I'll let you know when I finish The Orchardist. So far I like the writing a lot, but I'm only 1/3 of the way in.

>105 overlycriticalelisa:. So awful, I can't imagine living in those conditions.

While my paper about mid-century domestic thrillers percolates, have moved on to 'Til the Well Runs Dry by Lauren Francis-Sharma, which isn't bad.

The narrative tic that's a bit bothersome is that all the dialogue is in Trinidadian Creole English, but people's thoughts and narratives are in Standard English. I understand the author wants to convey a way of speaking that is unique to Trinidad, while making the story accessible. But it's a little jarring.

Mostly interested in the history and description of life in Trinidad, about which I knew nothing.

Can anyone recommend other women authors from Trinidad, fiction or non?

Have been fascinated by Carib history since reading Amy Wilentz's excellent study of Haitian life and politics in Farewell, Fred Voodoo a couple years ago.

>107 nohrt4me2: Although I haven't read any of her fiction, I thought Elizabeth Nunez's memoir of growing up in Trinidad called Not for Everyday Use was very interesting.

>108 streamsong: Thanks. I think I've heard of that one, but did not know Nunez was Trinidadian.

>104 JackieCarroll:. I finished The Orchardist on my morning commute. I didn't find it to be sentimental or maudlin in the slightest. It is sad, yes, but in keeping with its theme of trauma and grief. I think you'll have to wait a while to find more books by Amanda Coplin. As polished as this book is, she is apparently a first time author.

I started reading a vintage Tor Double science fiction paperback that I found in a used bookshop. One side is the Hugo winning novella The Girl Who Was Plugged In and flipped upside down and reading from the opposite side is the story Screwtop. The James Tiptree, Jr. (aka Alice B. Sheldon) story was very prophetic, written as it was in 1973. I got a laugh thinking that Kim Kardashian might be being remotely controlled for advertising purposes by someone looking like Melissa McCarthy-- and then I realized that Kardashian doesn't have anywhere near enough personality. ;>)

In print I'm reading Fannie Flagg's I Still Dream About You and on audio I'm listening to Bridget Jones: Mad About the Boy. Having read books by both authors before, I admit to a bit of disappointment with both given the high expectations I had, but they are both enjoyable and entertaining enough for now.

I just started Memory of Water in print and on audio I am still listening to Mansfield Park, which I am loving.

>112 sturlington:. Memory of Water is on my wish list. Let me know what you think!

starting bastard out of carolina for book group. loved it the first time i read it a million years ago. a few pages in the language is just incredible.

>111 sweetiegherkin: I used to like Fannie Flagg I don't know if I changed or she did but I rated I Still Dream About You only 2 stars. Banal and not very entertaining, I thought.
I've finished a few books by women. This Is Not A Love Story by Judy Brown (who previously wrote Hush, a book about sexual abuse and incest, under the pseudonym of Eishes Chayil to avoid repercussions from her Chasidic sect. I now have that book on request.) Love Story is about growing up Chassidic, one of 6 children and the sister of a "crazy" brother. After 10 years or so, they finally find the brother has autism. It's a good look at the benefits and drawbacks of living in a community ruled by tradition.
I'm almost finished with The Marriage of Opposites about a Jewish family in St. Thomas which is ruled by tradition. I seem to be on a roll here. It's a good look at a culture I didn't know existed.
I'm about 1/2 way through Mo'ne Davis: Remember My Name: My Story from First Pitch to Game Changer about the young girl who did so well in the Little League World Series last year. The amount of work she puts into life makes me tired just sitting here reading. Between rising at 5:20am, 2 hour bus rides to and from school, practice for 3 different sports and homework, she gets only 4 to 6 hours of sleep a night. How does she do it?
I finished Girl in Glass: How My "Distressed Baby" Defied the Odds, Shamed a CEO, and Taught Me the Essence of Love, Heartbreak, and Miracles by Deanna Fei, and again I don't know how she coped with life. After having a perfectly normal first pregnancy and giving birth to a wonderfully healthy boy (whom I wouldn't be surprised grows up to be a psychopath after the weird praise and expectations both his parents put on him - but that's another story) she has a surprise pregnancy, which also seems perfectly healthy, until out of the blue she goes into labor at 25 weeks and 3 days. Needless to say, this baby needs extreme attention and she spends months pumping breast milk every 2 to 3 hours. Months! I loved breastfeeding, just attached my babies to my breast and went about any ol' business I wanted to. I can't imagine being attached to a breast pump every 2-3 hours for months. Then, when it seems everyone might be out of the woods, the boss of the company holds a press conference in which he says the reason he's stealing from everyone's retirement is that the company experienced a severe loss due to 2 "distreessed" babies who had been born that year. This lead to what was a far more "likeable" part of the book in which Fei discusses health care, health insurance and whether or not some people should be ashamed for needing more health care than others. Really an excellent analysis of the situation of health care, corporate greed and insurance in the US.
I also read Rock With Wings by Anne Hillerman. After her first book I found this one pretty disappointing.
and Circling The Sun about Beryl Markham. I can't imagine anyone being so drawn to adventure. It's quite a book as she was quite a woman.

Till the Well Runs Dry turned out to be a better novel than it first seemed. Very evocative of place (Trinidad) and circumstances. I think this is Frances-Sharma's first novel. Will be interested to see if she writes more.

Speak by Louisa Hall and The Incarnations by Susan Barker both sounded interesting in the NYT review section today.

I just read the utterly fascinating and compelling readable Island of the Lost: Shipwrecked at the Edge of the World by Joan Druett, about two shipwrecks on remote, stormy Auckland Island, in the 1860s, and their very different fates.

>113 vwinsloe: I really liked Memory of Water. It's a short read, poetic and elegiac, a bit different than what I was expecting.

>118 sturlington:. Thanks. I'll look forward to it then.

IF I ever finish The Luminaries. I do love a tome, but it took me a good 200 pages to get into this one. I'm warming up to it now though. Thankfully, it includes a character list, but I wish it had a map, too. I find myself going to google maps quite a bit. I'm not at all familiar with New Zealand. This may be the first book of any kind that I have read that was set there.

I'm just starting Swiss Notes by Five Ladies, written by Charlotte Bronte's friend Mary Taylor. Unless I buy it as a "publish on demand" it seems only available on Google Books, from which I downloaded it as a PDF and I'm currently reading it on my Kindle. Just barely starting it, but it looks interesting.

I'm reading The chimes which is on the Booker longlist. It's not enthralling me but I'll keep going with it.

Deep in the reader for the lit crit class I'm teaching this fall. Hanan Al-Shaykh's short story, "Keeper of the Virgins," made me want to read a lot more of her! Lovely use of imagery and metaphor.

She got into political trouble for writing about the lives of Arab women (she's Lebanese), particularly about sexuality and now lives in London.

Works available in English:
Women of Sand and Myrrh
The Story of Zahra
Beirut Blues
Only in London
I Sweep the Sun off Rooftops
The Persian Carpet
The Locust and the Bird: My Mother's Story

>122 nohrt4me2: looks good. My library has 2 of her books: The Locust and the Bird: My Mother's Story and One thousand and one nights : a retelling. I'll have to give her a try.
I just finished I See You Made An Effort: Compliments, Indignities, and Survival Stories from the Edge of 50 by Annabelle Gurwitch. It sounds great, doesn't it? However, near the beginning the author says, after whining interminably, "they may be first world problems, but they're my first world problems." That pretty much sums it up. I've created a new tag for my books, NIA for Not Intended Audience, which I certainly am not for this book. In Gurwitch's defense, she's turning 50 in Southern California. Trying to stay Southern California beautiful as you age is a near impossible task, so I kind of understand her angst, I just don't care. Barbara Ehrenreich loved it, so what do I know.

>123 Citizenjoyce: I understand how grating the whiny tone of "first world problems" can seem. It's why I could not get past the first two pages of Eat, Pray, Love.

But I'm 61, and I wouldn't dismiss the pressures on older women in the U.S. that can be pretty caustic psychologically and even physically harmful.

The notion that once you're past menopause you are asexual, doddering, and controlled by your hot flashes or low thyroid, is pernicious. Young people buy into it. Doctors buy into it. Women themselves buy into it with hair dye, eye jobs, and long-term hormone therapy.

Looking at AARP magazine article's is a fascinating study in schizoid messages trying to help women celebrate age while giving them tips for how not to look old.

>124 nohrt4me2: You said it with "schizoid messages" about aging. I felt almost the same about I See You Made An Effort as I did about I Feel Bad About My Neck all that kvetching about purses and apartments and skin creams and wanting to f***k every younger man - or boy- you see. But Ephron does it better because she eventually leaves the superficial behind and talks about death. Gurwitch's one good article in the book is also about death, helping with the death of her friend. Even that one is kind of snarky and sarcastic, but I understand that's the kind of comedian she is. I also understand that it's very hard to believe we're going to die and that we may use things like $120 an ounce face cream or red sports cars to distract us from that inevitability. As an atheist of course I don't believe in reincarnation, but doesn't it seem that some people are old souls and able to confront and illuminate life's twists and turns while others are babies who spend their time giggling and picking their noses? I love a good laugh, I can even appreciate a giggle at death, but coating it with face cream or driving it around in a sports car with the top down seems to be veering on the wrong end of the schizoid spectrum.

>125 Citizenjoyce: I also understand that it's very hard to believe we're going to die and that we may use things like $120 an ounce face cream or red sports cars to distract us from that inevitability.

Well said.

If you find a cream or a car you can afford and enjoy, fine by me. But I don't find death nearly as frightening as turning into a superficial git who has nothing to offer but blather about my fading beauty and my cool stuff. Life is about making connections with people, not consumer goods, no?

According to facebook I have almost 1500 friends, so I must be doing pretty in the what is life about department. :-)

But strictly speaking, I'd say life is about what we make it to be about. There are people who collect people the way others collect plates with kittens on them. In general I'd say quality trumps quantity when it comes to what you want to devote your life to.

>127 southernbooklady: I realize I'm showing my age here, but I have no "friends" on FB, which I consider a personal branding tool more than a way to maintain any real connections with people.

But, yah, sure life can be about whatever you want what with free will and all. And my free will prefers to stay away from Dr. Oz and his youth nostrums, and people who talk about accessorizing.

Right >127t In general I'd say quality trumps quantity when it comes to what you want to devote your life to.

and right >128 nohrt4me2: And my free will prefers to stay away from Dr. Oz and his youth nostrums, and people who talk about accessorizing.
I certainly have no right to say that someone's superficial concentrations are not right for them. I just don't have much interest in reading about them.

>129 Citizenjoyce: I have no trouble being a bit more judgmental.

People who suck the life out of meetings and social occasions with the latest episode in their pursuit of beauty, youth, and status consumer goods are stealing time you'll never recover.

In real life I'm generally polite and politic, but have learned how to avoid or extricate myself nicely from these people. It's more than they deserve.

Well, I finally finished The Luminaries. It took me 200 pages to get into, then I loved the next 500 pages, but the last 150 pages were a let down for me. If an author is so wordy and detail oriented that she can write an 850 page novel, then she ought to be able to end it satisfactorily with no red herrings or loose ends. Sheesh!

I just started Still Life With Breadcrumbs. I have never read Anna Quindlen and I have no idea how this book ended up on my wishlist. After my recent experience with The Luminaries, I picked it off the pile because it is wonderfully short.

I have Still Life with Breadcrumbs on my wish list. Let us know how you liked it. I haven't ever read Quindlen, either, didn't think I would like her, but the story line sounded appealing.

>132 nohrt4me2:. Will do.

>132 nohrt4me2:. Well, Still Life With Breadcrumbs was a very quick read and not completely unpleasant, but I can't recommend it. I found it to be Fannie Flagg-ish; slightly edgier, but in the same wheelhouse.

I've moved on to an equestrian memoir, Finding My Distance, which is almost certainly something that I will like.

>132 nohrt4me2: Ah, that's my impression of Quindlen's work, and why I've avoided it.

Speaking of authors whom I've avoided, I see Elizabeth Gilbert has a new book out, Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear. About the first five words in any review of this particular book are "self-help."

So guess I'll be passing on that, though The Signature of All Things seemed to have been pretty well received.

>135 nohrt4me2:. I didn't particularly like The Signature of All Things although I think Citizenjoyce did. My main problem with it was that it was a plot that was plausibly historical, and if it were historical, then it would have been a wonderful revelation of a woman's contribution to science. But no, it was totally fictional, which did not sit well with me. I am sure that there are many, many women who have made huge contributions to science who are underrecognized for their achievements, and making one up seems to imply that there are none in reality.

Maybe it is residual hate from Eat, Pray Love or maybe I am just too picky, but I won't read Elizabeth Gilbert again.

I had a bit higher hopes for Anna Quindlen. She won a Pulitzer Prize for her New York Times column and has been celebrated as a feminist. But, alas, no. Not my cuppa.

>134 vwinsloe: Hm, my copy of Still Life With Breadcrumbs just came into the library. After you comments, maybe I won't be in a hurry to get to it. I fell in love with Anna Quindlen after reading Black and Blue about a group of women who help another woman escape from her abusive policeman husband. I thought it was wonderful and gave it 5 stars and bought several other books by her. The only one I've read so far was Rise and Shine which was just OK. I hope she's not another one of those authors who has just one good book in her. But hey, one good book is more than most of us have.
I did love The Signature of All Things. I'm sure there are many woman scientists worth writing about. I can't think now of the title of the one about the fossil hunter who found more of a certain species than anyone else yet was still denied the recognition of a scientist, but it was great. However, I don't think we can fault someone for the book they didn't write. We can comment only on the one they did.
I'll make an exception to that. I can fault an author for the book they say they started out to write then wrote another one instead. Recently I read The Fortune Hunter by Daisy Goodwin. She says she wanted to write a book about Sisi, the empress of Austria, and what she says about her is so interesting that I can't believe she ended up with this kind of routine historical romance. Still interesting, since I know so little about the period, but her plans were so much greater.
I just finished a book that I liked very much, Hush by Judy Brown writing under the pseudonym of Eishes Chayil (which means a woman of valor). She writes about her very structured, very tradition bound Chassidic community in New York and they way they covered up and ignored sexual abuse. They were good people, the chosen people. Such things couldn't happen among them, only the dirty goy would do such a thing. This is such a perfect examination of the toll religious oppression takes on people who try to live in reality and is a commentary on the Dugger fiasco, the Jehova Witness scandal that recently came to light, the Catholic church cover ups, the FLDS shannagins, even the fact that Mormons take Prozac in higher numbers than other Americans. I think every where there's a strong patriarchal religion sexual abuse, the abuse of those considered to be weaker and less worthy must be covered up, no matter which religion it is. Well worth reading.

>137 Citizenjoyce: Tanget re patriarchal religions: One of the things I loved about Colm Toibin's The Testament of Mary was its depiction of how the patriarchy in the early church emerged, and the extent to which he restored the humanity and individuality of Mary. Certainly made saying the rosary a different experience for me.

Several modern nuns (e.g., Sr. Elizabeth Johnson, Truly Our Sister) have written "studies" about Mary, but Toibin clearly wasn't worried about the hierarchy coming down on his butt the way the sisters have had to.

St. Peter always struck me as kind of a literal-minded lunkhead in Scripture ... and that's pretty much how he comes off in Toibin's book.

I read The Testament of Mary and liked it well enough, but I see now that Meryl Streep narrates the audio version. How I'd love to hear that.
As for nuns, it amazes me that some are able to accomplish all they do with authority squashing them at every turn.

>139 Citizenjoyce: How would Streep's reading make it better/different for you?

Just interested in that general topic.

I listened to, rather than read, Henry James's The Golden Bowl. The clarity and subtlety of the prose really popped better when I listened to the book. Something about the reader's deadpan delivery that worked well with the text.

Also listened to Stephen Fry reading Harry Potter (when I got tired of re-reading it to my son). The richness of the secondary characters emerged in interesting ways thanks to Fry's ability to do different kinds of British accents. (Movies did this to some extent, but the movies were really all about the visuals and, in the end, the action.)

I would recommend the documentary "Sisters of Selma" to anybody who wants to know more about how nuns have figured out how to outsmart the hierarchy.

>140 nohrt4me2: Oh, it would definitely make it better. She makes everything better, and hearing her read Mary would be wonderful.

>137 Citizenjoyce:. Still Life With Breadcrumbs was not terrible. You may see more in it than I did.

I agree that The Signature of All Things was a good read. In fact, it was so good that I was very interested in finding out more about the woman about whom she wrote. I was very let down that neither the woman nor anyone remotely like her actually existed. I am not so much complaining about the book that she didn't write; I am complaining that without some sort of a disclaimer up front, the book was extremely misleading, and I guess I felt defrauded.

re: anna quindlen - i was sorely disappointed with black and blue (sorry citizenjoyce) after falling in love with her when she was a columnist for newsweek. i absolutely looked forward to her column every other week and wished they would have pushed out george will so she could write weekly. so maybe i had high expectations, or maybe she does fiction entirely differently than she does essays. the fannie flagg reference that someone made earlier rang true for me (and this is a negative for me); just not as well done as it should be, i thought. i'm not sure i'll read her fiction again, but i'd try her nonfiction in the hopes that it's reminiscent of her columns.

The paleontologist I was thinking of is Mary Anning. The book about her, Remarkable Creatures by Tracy Chevalier was not only wonderful, but seemed much more fictitious than Elizabeth Gilbert's character. Yet again truth is stranger than fiction.

forgot to say what i came here to say: on monday i read carson mccullers's ballad of the sad cafe. i didn't like it as much as i thought i would, although she's such a good writer. it was for a book group and i left the discussion with a lot more appreciation of it then i had when i went in. it's a super short read and recommended, especially to give you an idea of her writing style and themes if you haven't read her before.

>144 Citizenjoyce:, thanks, I will put Remarkable Creatures on my wishlist. I am having difficulty making my point, but for me, The Signature of All Things is as though someone wrote an "historical" novel about a completely ficitional African American who came up with the theory of relativity at the same time as Einstein.

>146 vwinsloe: I get it. Doggone it, we want those people to be real.

>147 Citizenjoyce:. I suppose it is childish of me when I look at it that way.

But if only Gilbert's book had been dedicated: "To All the Women Over the Centuries Who were Deprived of the Opportunity to do Great Things because of Their Gender" or "To All the Women who did Great Things that have gone Unrecognized because of their Gender," I wouldn't have felt so betrayed.

I just finished reading The word exchange, which I wanted to love for its premise but could barely like in the end. Unconvincing, unlikeable characters and an air of pretentiousness were to blame.

>149 Sakerfalcon: I read this one awhile back, too, and was disappointed with its general failure to do justice to the premise, and there was no aha! ending to pull it out of the crapper. In addition to the items you mention, I felt the plot was somewhat muddled, which made reading the book frustrating.

I was similarly disappointed with A Highly Unlikely Scenario, or A Neetsa Pizza Employee's Guide to Saving the World. There are some very nice little vignettes in there, but these didn't gel into any kind of coherent whole, and it was hard to catch the author's tone at all times.

>150 nohrt4me2: You're right about the muddled plot, which wasn't helped by Ana's "Had I known then what I know now..." attempts at foreshadowing. And yes, I had similar issues with A highly unlikely scenario (and the additional annoyance of the female lead settling for fulfilment through childbearing.)

ETA I'm now reading something far more entertaining and interesting - Oreo by Fran Ross.

Finally got around to reading Lucasta Miller's The Bronte Myth (5***** and I need to write a review). I also just finished Sir Walter Scott's The Black Dwarf, which Miller suggests as a possible influence on Wuthering Heights (Scott has a character names "Earnscliff") and which I suspect may also have been an influence on Charlotte's juvenilia novella The Green Dwarf, which I'm going to get started on pretty soon.

I'm on John Galsworthy's The Forsyte Saga novels. Fascinating, much funnier and weirder than the PBS series. But like that Trollope thing I did last year, this is going to take awhile ...

> 153 I've been doing those (again) this year - all 9. Doing a trilogy every 4 months has worked well for me and two friends - less pressured but you keep the momentum. Enjoy!

I'm currently re-reading Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey - as an audiobook read by Anna Massey.

>155 sweetiegherkin: I just finished that one this year along with Persuasion. I try to re-read two Austens a year. I'm also due for a re-read of Henry James's Portrait of a Lady.

>148 vwinsloe:

I don't find it childish, but I do find it interesting that The Signature of All Things disappointed some folks because the main character was not based on a human being who actually lived. It never occurred to me that creating a fictional character and plot entirely out of the writer's imagination could be a problem regardless of the era, profession or gender. I wonder if it is because women's accomplishments are so left out of non-fiction history.

For what it is worth, I liked The Signature of All Things, put down Eat Pray Love in disgust and have no interest in the new one.

I heard Gilbert on NPR the other day. She was discussing this notion of ideas sort of floating through the air and being plucked when it was their time. She explored this in The Signature of All Things as well when multiple people figured out evolution simultaneously. I find the concept intriguing. I coincidentally heard a poet speaking about needing to capture a poem as it takes possession of her. If she doesn't write it at that moment, she comforts herself that it has blown through her and gone on to find its right poet. Unfortunately, I don't remember who she was.

I began A Little Life by Hanya Yanagihara yesterday. I was skeptical for the first 30 pages. Something changed between 30 and 40 where I am now. I am intrigued and excited now. I wish I could leave work and read through the whole dreary weekend.

>156 nohrt4me2: Nice! This is my third time on Northanger Abbey, and I find I like it a little more each time I read it.

just finished my education by susan choi and am composing my thoughts on it. definitely interesting and well written (and a surprising amount of graphic - but not detailed - sex between two women, for a mainstream press.)

>157 nancyewhite:. Thanks. I think it is one of those books where a spoiler in the reviews is actually helpful. There seems to be an existing sub-genre of historical fiction which brings obscure historical facts or personages to light. The Signature of All Things uses the same plot device, except that it is pure fiction. It just seemed insensitive to me; perhaps implying that there are no such true stories to be told about women. Not to belabor my point, which seems to be a minority view, I do think that Gilbert has a tin ear when it comes to feminism. She almost gets it; but her work is just off the mark in ways that some may find a betrayal.

On another note, I'm on to the second book in the Radch science fiction series by Ann Leckie. In this series, the protagonist is an AI in a human body. The predominant species is human, although they have evolved culturally to speak and act gender neutral. The pronoun "she" is used throughout for both genders. It is an interesting experience for the reader to watch what the brain does when forming ideas about the characters while reading. At first, I definitely pictured all women. Now I have become more accustomed, and the characters seems more androgynous as I go along. I think that it is a fascinating experiment.

I do think that Gilbert has a tin ear when it comes to feminism.

One of the things I've noticed on this list and tried to be respectful of is that members have different expectations from literature by women re the "feminist" viewpoint.

I'm often puzzled when I see comments like this because I don't really know what the commenter means, specifically, by having a "tin ear" to feminism.

I'm certainly interested in other points of view; as an old lady now who is somewhat hobbled by health problems, I'm not sure what I read here always tallies with my own experience of the world, or what we used to call "feminism" in the 1960s and 70s.

But I don't want to live in an echo chamber, either. My brain is still in good working order, and filling it with ideas before my demise seems to be a good goal.

Just a suggestion for making the discussions here more inclusive.

>162 nohrt4me2:. What the commenter in this instance meant when she said that Gilbert has a "tin ear" in regards to feminism is that, for example, she spent 3/4 of her book Eat, Pray, Love examining the possibility of a woman's life having meaning without being connected to a man's life. Then in the last quarter of the book, the protagonist hooks up with a man, and abruptly abandons the previous line of self discovery. Many women (particularly mid-life women recently divorced) who I spoke to in reference to that book, felt liberated by the first 3/4 of the book, only to feel betrayed by the last 1/4.

So I meant feminism in the most rudimentary way possible: i.e., a belief that women are fully formed persons without being identified with a man. Sorry for my lack of clarity, I expect that most people who read Eat, Pray, Love had some idea of what I meant, but perhaps not.

>vwinsloe I agree with you. It's often difficult to find a book where the strong woman doesn't just pick a different man rather than choose to go on and be without one. I have to admit that I am a huge sucker for romance, but at the same time, I think books, especially ones like Eat, Pray, Love that purport empowerment and independence, shy too easily away from letting that woman "walk away" fully. It's almost as if feminity dies if you choose yourself. I think if I am reading a romantic story and it's about how a woman chooses healthy love or unhealthy love or how said woman chooses to be with a particular man when society maybe shuns such a union, okay, I get that. But when I am reading a story about self-reliance and such, I don't really want to see the woman walk off into the sunset with some dude. It's like it loses the whole point.

Anyway, good thread, in general. I am reading a coming-of-age love story called Forget Me Not by Allison Whitmore. The young woman is trying to choose for herself but seems weak at first though she grows stronger. Then the male lead is also in the book. I like him a lot and am enjoying the writing. After this one, I'm not sure where to go. I was planning to read The Notebook, but I'm not in the mood for Nicholas Sparks. I just finished Orphan Train by Christina Baker Kline a little while ago, and it was really good. It made me cry several times. I love it when I can get history while feeling emotionally attached. Between that The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie by Muriel Spark, which left me with lots to explore and think about in general, and I really loved it. I may just take Sunday off and watch the film version of that. I haven't seen it and heard it was good.

I'm glad to have found this group. Girly books are my thing.

>164 oliviabaxter04:. You said it better than I. Thank you.

No problem!

163, 164 I get the tin ear re Eat, Pray, Love; guess I was confused about the beef with The Signature of All Things (which I have not read), other than that it was a fictionalized account of women scientists.

I objected more to Eat, Pray, Love for its self-indulgence more than anything else. In the "olden days" of Men Are Just Desserts, it was fine for a woman to walk off with some dude as long as he wasn't stifling her.

>167 nohrt4me2:. You should read it and see what you think!

I finished Ancillary Sword and started Everything I Never Told You. I became fully engrossed in Celeste Ng's book right away, and I hope that my enjoyment will carry through to the end.

>168 vwinsloe: I was considering what nonfiction I've read where there was a strong female perspective on life without a man or even romance, and immediately thought of May Sarton's journals. I started with After the Stroke.

I'm a couple hundred pages into A Little Life. I move between liking it very much and wanting to throw it across the room.

I just finished a completely mind blowing book, The Shock Doctrine: the rise of disaster capitalism by Naomi Klein. It makes so much sense of the politics and economics of the rise of neo liberalism (which is really neo conservatism, strange how words may mean the opposite). She shows the theory and results of the privatization of every part of public life, how such plans are made and kept at the ready to be implemented when sufficient chaos allows them to be slipped in. Finally we're beginning to realize the disaster resulting from prison privatization and maybe the bloom is fading from attempts to privatize the public education system. Maybe I can share a little of the optimism she expresses at the end of the book.
I also finished Pro: Reclaiming Abortion Rights by Katha Pollitt. It's pretty common sense, but sometimes that is lacking in the debate. It was good to have the theory all put together in one book.
I also finished with Every Fifteen Minutes by Lisa Scottoline, not because I finished the book but because, after a brief way in I realized I didn't want to fill my mind with these sociopaths so stopped reading.
I did finish Fates and Furies though I had to check to verify that the author, Lauren Groff is a woman. It's kind of Shakespeare meets Gillian Flynn and did stimulate my interest once the large part of the tale of Lancelot (the charismatic bumbling puppy man) was passed and we could get on to the whys of his wife, Mathilde. I can see why so many people liked it, I just can't join them quite so wholeheartedly.
And lastly I listened to Still Life With Breadcrumbs. Because of your criticism, >134 vwinsloe: , I wasn't expecting a great and illuminating read, which it isn't, but I did find it pleasant.

>170 Citizenjoyce:. Regarding Still Life With Breadcrumbs, knowing your feelings about animals, I had wondered whether you would get past the bits about the raccoon, and then later on leaving the dog in the shed when she went on a trip to NYC. I wonder how much those things hampered my enjoyment, because they definitely bothered me when I read about them.

>169 nancyewhite:. I have not read May Sarton; thanks for the recommendation.

I finished Everything I Never Told You which I liked, but not as much as I expected. I think that for me it may fall into Citizenjoyce's tag "Not Intended Audience."

I started Bird Cloud which has been panned, but I have read everything else that Proulx has written so....

I'm reading Dorothy Whipple's Because of the Lockwoods, which is excellent so far.

>170 Citizenjoyce: Naomi Klein's book is eye-opening, isn't it? The concept that a small number of people can cause misery for millions of others in order to increase their profits is staggering. It was my book group's read last month and I'm still not done, as I have to take it in small doses. I think the group will probably read her book This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate next year.

Svetlana Alexievich becomes the 14th woman to win the Nobel Prize for literature: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/what-to-read/svetlana-alexievich-nobel-prize-li...

just starting racecraft for a group read/discussion (found here https://www.librarything.com/topic/197196 if you're interested in joining in)

>171 vwinsloe: Yeah, the raccoon thing. I'm not an absolutist. Ultimately I don't think an animal's life is as valuable as mine or my family's. (Just as I don't think all other people's lives are as valuable as mine or my family's). Raccoon can carry rabies, they also can be very vicious (along with being really cute). I can see why she would want to remove it from her house and not kill it. I can also understand the argument that it would just come back. So, realistically, I wasn't too bothered. She'd never been a pet owner, so she wouldn't have even considered trying to train it, and she probably wouldn't have been successful anyway. As for the dog, well, she was a reluctant and new dog owner. I'm sure by the end of the book she wouldn't have done such a thing.
>174 sturlington: I just read a quick headline that said someone from Belarus won the prize, and I was disappointed because I knew I had never read him. Knowing it's a woman makes all the difference. The only book my library has of hers is Voices from Chernobyl and, due to your post, I've put it on hold.

>173 streamsong: very powerful, and to me very believable. I talked to a woman who has written a book on economics and she thinks Klein is too obviously prejudiced against conservatives. I just saw a book that explains much of all of the political strife in the world. My RL book club would never read her, too depressing and divisive. Sounds like you have an exciting group.

>176 Citizenjoyce: I'll be looking forward to hearing what you think of her writing.

I'm rereading two of my favorite women this month: Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Shelley is the first writer I remember feeling really inspired by and wanting to learn everything about.

>176 Citizenjoyce:. I just went through the raccoon thing this spring with a mother raccoon and 4 babies. I researched it and found that you can drive them out with ammonia soaked rags. After they vacated, I capped the chimney. I'm sure that experience made me dislike the character who didn't consider any alternatives.

>179 sturlington:. I've been considering reading Frankenstein, and I just read something that mentioned there are a lot of different editions and abridgments, and that the first edition is the best. What do you think?

>180 vwinsloe: Hmm, I'm not sure. I have the Penguin Classics edition, which is not abridged certainly, but I'm not sure whether it was the first edition or not. I would think so. My preference is usually to try to read what the author intended to write/publish as closely as possible. It's a very short book, not sure what value an abridgment would bring.

>181 sturlington:. Okay, I was curious so I looked up the wiki to see what my source was talking about. Apparently, the 1818 first edition was published anonymously, and later, more widely read versions were by Mary Shelley herself, but changed from the original.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankenstein

I recently saw a publication of the "original" Frankenstein in a used book store, and I wasn't sure, so I didn't get it. I hope that it is still there.

>182 vwinsloe: I'll have to check my copy to see which edition I'm reading!

>182 vwinsloe: So I went and checked the note on my edition. Very interesting. I either hadn't known this or had forgotten it. Well, it's probably been over 20 years since I last read Frankenstein. Anyway, here's what it says:

The first edition of Frankenstein was published anonymously in 1818 by the London printers Lackington, Hughes, Harding, Mavor and Jones, and was in three volumes. A two-volume second edition was published in 1823, this time bearing Mary Shelley's name. The single volume third edition appeared as No. 9 in Colburn and Bentley's 'Standard Novel' series in 1831. The text printed here is based upon this third edition and contains all of Mary Shelley's final revisions.

I think if you want the author's intended version, you should seek out the third edition.

Mary Shelley wrote about her first edition:

'If there were ever to be another edition of this book, I should re-write these first two chapters. The incidents are tame and ill arranged - the language sometimes childish. - They are unworthy of the rest of the narration.' For the 1831 edition she not only rewrote these 'two first chapters,' but also divided the original Chapter I into what becomes the new Chapters I and II, the old Chapter II now becoming Chapter III. However, the changes made for the two new chapters involved more than stylistic improvements, despite her claim in the 1831 Introduction that she had 'changed no portion of the story nor introduced any new ideas or circumstances.' (Nevertheless, her assertion that the 'core and substance' of the story had been untouched by the changes is a substantially accurate one.)

There is a lot more detail about what she changed. Thanks for bringing this up. I don't always read the front matter.

>184 sturlington:. Hmm, the wiki and preface to an edition of the 1818 version say:

"On 31 October 1831, the first "popular" edition in one volume appeared, published by Henry Colburn & Richard Bentley.26 This edition was heavily revised by Mary Shelley, partially because of pressure to make the story more conservative, and included a new, longer preface by her, presenting a somewhat embellished version of the genesis of the story. This edition tends to be the one most widely read now, although editions containing the original 1818 text are still published.27 Many scholars prefer the 1818 text, arguing that it preserves the spirit of Shelley's original publication (see Anne K. Mellor's "Choosing a Text of Frankenstein to Teach" in the W. W. Norton Critical edition)."

So who knows? I wonder how much is changed "to make the story more conservative," whatever that means.

The edition I have does have an appendix that compares the later edition with the first, but I have not studied it.

>180 vwinsloe: very wise of you. Not being an animal person, I think she just accepted the word of the "expert." I think also that she didn't have internet access in the cabin so couldn't research the problem without effort, and she wasn't interested in putting in the effort. Of course eliminating the raccoon's access would have been a solution after it was removed. I can't remember why that wasn't an option. Having never had such a problem, I don't know what I would have done. I hope I would do it your way. The worst I've had was a mouse family who ruined my washing machine by making a nest in the motor. I have to say I was not disposed in their favor. There is a mouse who lives right outside my kitchen door amidst the bird baths and feeders and I'm quite willing to let her stay, as long as she doesn't migrate into my garage. I can't believe my dogs haven't got her yet, but she is a fast little bugger.

> My book club read Frankenstein last year. I can't remember which version I read. I know I also listened to an audio of it. We had a great discussion. I'll always remember the monster's saying he'd be good if only he were happy. Wouldn't we all?

I just finished Black Heart by Holly Black read by the wonderfully nerdy Jesse Eisenberg. Doggone, I love Holly Black, and Eisenberg's narration made the whole book a delight. This is the 3rd in the Curse Worker's series, in which she combines con games, people with all sorts of powers and the overreach of the government with the pull between morality and practicality. I'm so glad I discovered her and want to read everything she's written.

Re: Frankenstein, Shelley's revisions were done to put more emphasis on the sin of playing God, whereas her original version was all about bad parenting (bad fathers in particular) and men trying to usurp women's role in reproduction. Shelley had been through a series of tragedies and was trying to reconnect with her family and re-establish herself as socially acceptable, and as part of that she revised her novel to alter its focus. The original version is a more honest, less calculated piece of writing.

>191 lyzard: Thanks for that info. When I first encountered it, I read Frankenstein as a kind of "uterus envy" story.

I re-read it every so often, and I think it's one of those books that improves with knowing something about Shelley and her circumstances. She lost two small children about the time she was working on the 1818 novel, and I can't help thinking that some of her grief, rage, and loss makes its way into the novel.

If memory serves (it doesn't always), she was thrown into a very deep depression when her little boy died of the fever (malaria?) and never truly got over losing the children.

Now I'm interested in looking at all three versions. Thanks to everyone for starting this thread.

The Haunting of Hill House sounds like a pretty good October read, too. Been a long time!

I think your "readings" of Frankenstein are quite right; Shelley was certainly expressing her grief over the loss of her children and her ambivalence about the female role.

Re Frankenstein, I have a bias in favor of the first edition, 1818, because that's the one used in Frankenstein (Norton Critical Editions) and I almost always love Norton's supplementary materials.

Re Shirley Jackson, I'm just starting Let Me Tell You. These are mainly short stories, and I'll probably take them a few at a time. The newly published "Paranoia" has some thematic resemblance to "The Daemon Lover," with "The Daemon Lover" probably being the superior story. The newly published "The Arabian Nights" bears a resemblance to "Afternoon in Linen," which for a long time has been my favorite short story (not just my favorite Jackson story, but my favorite story PERIOD), but I actually like "The Arabian Nights" even more!

Let Me Tell You — highly recommended based on the limited reading I've done so far, but from what I've read so far the essays don't seem particularly exciting (though they're a smaller component of the overall volume, so I'm not complaining).

ETA: The Library of America has a wonderful edition of Jackson edited by Joyce Carol Oates, and they're supposed to be coming out with a second volume (according to something posted a while ago in LT's LoA Group), but I have no idea when this is going to happen or if the project has been put on hold because of rights issues. This first LoA volume includes The Haunting of Hill House, We Have Always Lived in the Castle, and a very generous collection of stories.

>191 lyzard: & >194 CurrerBell:. Thank you! I will look for the Norton Critical Edition.

A very interesting discussion of Frankenstein. The introduction to my edition, written by Elizabeth Kostova, supports these ideas but also suggests that the 3rd edition revisions may have been colored by Mary Shelley's mourning for her husband Percy. I did not know that after his death, Mary kept her husband's heart for nearly 30 years wrapped in one of his poems!

On this reading, I found myself detesting Frankenstein. He is such a narcissist! The part that struck me most was when the monster says, "I will visit you on your wedding night," and he just assumes the intended victim is himself. He seems to have no real feeling for Elizabeth beyond taking for granted that she will always be there for him in whatever role he needs her to be.

Having finished Frankenstein, I have now started Men Explain Things to Me by Rebecca Solnit.

>196 sturlington: He seems to have no real feeling for Elizabeth beyond taking for granted that she will always be there for him in whatever role he needs her to be.

It's part of the genius of the story that the only character that has any "real feeling" is the monster.

>197 southernbooklady: I'm not sure I entirely agree with you there. The cottagers, who the monster spies on and models himself after, seem to have real feeling for one another. I also think that Clerval, Frankenstein's father, and Elizabeth are all compassionate people, but we only see them distorted through Frankenstein point of view. However, I do agree with you that the genius is that the monster himself is more sympathetic, and more human, than his creator. The monster's story at the center of the book was for me the most moving and powerful section of it.

Hmm, well admittedly it's been a long time since I read it, but my impression was that the story was allegory, and the characters basically representatives of "humanity" -- with the monster being the only one who was real in terms of having depth or evolving. Everyone else just seemed to be symbolizing something.

>199 southernbooklady: There are so many ways of reading it, a mark of a truly great book.

I just finished a delightful audiobook, Rain Reign by Ann M. Martin, a wonderful book about autism and crisis parenting and I guess I could say the crises of childhood. Listening to the narration made it even more clear how annoying a child with Asperger's can be and how difficult it could be to have such a child in the classroom. It also highlighted the delight of such children. Highly recommended for anyone interested in the topic.
Now I'm listening to Margaret Atwood's newest, The Heart Goes Last. Having just read The Shock Doctrine and also having been exposed to the noxiousness of Oprah's "positive attitude" ideology, I was very prepared to love this dystopia, which so far I do.

>201 Citizenjoyce: noxiousness of Oprah's "positive attitude" ideology

I found Barbara Ehrenreich's Bright-Sided an anodyne for that type of thing.

>202 nohrt4me2: Absolutely.

Reading Varanger, the 4th in Cecilia Holland's Corban Loosestrife series - an entertaining romp. Also looking forward to starting Adventures in the Anthropocene by Gaia Vince, winner of this year's Royal Society Winton Prize for Science Books.

I finished Men Explain Things to Me -- recommended for this group. I also finished The Warrior's Apprentice by Lois McMaster Bujold, an enjoyable light read, and started Frog Music by Emma Donoghue, which I'm liking so far.

I'm reading The Flamethrowers and I haven't made up my mind about it yet.

I am reading Left Neglected by Lisa Genova, who has a neuroscience background. It is about someone who has an accident that causes a head injury and her left side is no longer in her consciousness. I am beginning to really like it. Slow going at first because I disliked the main character. She was such a snob. Now I am reading it obsessively.

>201 Citizenjoyce:, I read the bits of The Heart Goes Last that were available on Kindle in installments. Have heard a lot about the completed project, and not sure I think the premise holds up.

Doing the Peter Carey read for the November Monthly Author Reads group.

I've just started reading The crowded street by Winifred Holtby. So far its portrayal of a shy young woman seems painfully accurate.

I'm reading Bedelia by Vera Caspary and The Heart is a Lonely Hunter by Carson McCullers. Enjoying them both, but for entirely different reasons - Bedelia for the plot and psychological tension; the latter for the prose and the characters.

I just finished Fates and Furies. I adored it. Every dashed expectation I had after reading A Little Life was met in this beautifully written novel.

Loved. Loved. Loved.

An underrated author, it seems to me. South Riding is a tremendous and down-to-earth portrayal of the lives of ordinary women in 1930s Yorkshire and many of her less well-known works are beautifully drawn. I also like Vera Brittain’s loving portrait of her - Testament of Friendship.

>210 sweetiegherkin: Sweetie, re Bedelia (which I enjoyed, but I think Laura is even better), I have two women's domestic thriller novels to give away (see thread I started today). If you want them, message me.

I'd like to see a new life for Vera Caspary. Her autobio The Secrets of Grownups was on Evil Amazon for a couple bucks not long ago. Wonderful read, wonderful woman.

>213 nohrt4me2: Yeah, I'm definitely going to check out Laura soon as my library system has it. I'm going to see if I can track down The Secrets of Grownups at some point also. It's unfortunate that such a popular author is now mostly out of print.

The Feminist Press at CUNY has released editions of Laura and Bedelia as well as similar older novels in the Femmes Fatales collection: http://www.feministpress.org/books/fp-series/femmes-fatales

>215 nohrt4me2: Yep, that's the version of Bedelia I read and the version of Laura that's at my library.

Hmmm, I just tried to create a new page, but it comes up as Page 5, which is the same as this page. It should have gone on to page 6. I wonder how to report this?

I think you have to manually change the title of the page when you set it up. Too late to change it now. We'll manage just fine. :-)