Mr. Penumbra and the geeks

Hi all, a very thoughtful reader asked me a question on my reading thread, and after some contemplation and a good bit of typing, I decided that it would be a great group discussion. So rather than just responding in my own thread, I thought I'd start one where more folks might participate, possibly including all those who dragged me down the hall into Mr. P's bookshop.

This thread might attract some folks who haven't read the book yet, so let's use spoiler tags for any significant revelations.

Kelley asks:

I have read about Mr. Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore on your and Sakerfalcon's thread, and have been intrigued. I am looking over the book's Goodreads reviews now. But one Goodread review has given me pause, and I wanted to check with you about its accuracy:

Is it true that the female lead simply disappears from the novel when she's "no longer useful"? I would be disappointed if she were not a major character throughout -- particularly since the media in general (though books far less than TV and movies) do an abysmal job of depicting female geeks, contributing to the illusion that geekery or nertidute or whatever name we wish to call it is somehow unique to guys, and female geeks, if they exist at all, make about 1% of the female population.

Here is my initial response. Please chime in with your own and with other thoughts on the book.

I'm not sure I would call Kat the female lead in Mr. Penumbra. Others might have different opinions and I welcome their comments. I'd say the story is primarily Clay's, and Kat is one of several characters who help him in his quest. I think she is more involved than any of the others, both in motivating/encouraging Clay and in supplying a lot of imagination and creative thinking as well as technical know-how. I liked her character a lot and I think she's a well drawn female geek. I wouldn't say that her gender dictates any of her behavior in the geek realm; she could have been a guy without affecting that particular portion of the relationship. It would have made a big difference in other respects ;-)

I'm putting the next bit between spoiler tags. I don't think it spoils the story, but I want to respect anyone who really doesn't want to know any details.

I think Kat is very much a partner in Clay's pursuit of his goals, but they are for the most part his goals and not hers, although she does get to indulge a desire to play with a particular technology. She does fade out as the technology becomes less important; the author gives her a good and geeky reason to direct her attention elsewhere. In a sense you could say she hasn't really become superfluous herself, but her geekdom is no longer as useful down the home stretch. She doesn't disappear completely, but she does back off from her central role. I don't know if the author gave her this other opportunity in order to remove her from the picture; I'd be interested in other readers' thoughts on this.

The book is overall rather whimsical and un-serious. I realize that this doesn't prevent it from reflecting social trends or from deserving to be analyzed in that way. My overall take on Kat is that she's an almost-too-wonderful geek, and that it would have been a bit much for her to stay in the same role throughout the book.

I must admit, it didn't occur to me to look at Kat's reduced role in the latter stages of the book as disappearing because she was no longer useful (or to consider her a lead rather than supporting character). She supports Clay while their interests coincide, but she has her own interests and these are primary to her throughout. I liked the reasons she was given to go do her own thing, and I liked that it was important enough to her to outweigh tagging along with Mr Protagonist.

I also wonder if there is a subtext, whether it's less about usefulness, and more about the demands of a meteoric career trajectory these days. It's pretty clear that Google expect to be the centre of a Googler's world - Kat gets given an influential and demanding role in the organisation, and it didn't seem unreasonable that (given her well-established loyalty to the organisation and passion for that role in particular) she'd lose sight of everything else going on. I thought the observation that even her dress code had changed reflected this - she's gone from ubergeek who is reducing brain cycles wasted on clothing decisions to a power dresser. There's not a lot of room left for Clay.

Equally, none of the male supporting cast are constant companions - everyone has their own life and their own priorities, they just help Clay out from time to time - so I didn't feel Kat was singled out in this regard.

I agree with Jim53 and imyril. Although Kat does fade out of the story a bit, this is mostly because she is not the main character, she helps the main character in his quest. She does this superbly and passionately, but after her skills become less necessary, she moves more to the background. I've got the feeling that the author's reason for making her fade out is exactly that: she is no longer central to the story. But the way he does it is perfectly logical for her character and her position. And while she does help the main character, she's pretty amazing. Incredibly smart and innovative. I like how Clay compares it to fantasy, because it really is quite similar: he gathers a diverse group of friends to help him with his quest.

THIS is why I appreciate this site and the people on it. People here will answer a question and won't give the questioner a hard time for asking. Thanks, guys.

Are there other female allies in the book? In the Goodreads reviews, Kat was the only one mentioned by name.

5> Kat is the only female ally. There are a few other peripheral female characters, but they are very peripheral. To be fair, outside the core 'party' (Clay, Kat, Neal - with Penumbra as quest setter, if you will), everyone is pretty peripheral - a couple of other characters do get a bit more screen time than most, but they're all men.

5,6: It's been a while since I read the book, and I notice I'm already starting to loose detail... From what I remember, besides Clay, Kat has the largest role, am I correct? Perhaps after that the rich friend, and then the wacky roommate? Those are the only more or less consistent ones I can remember who are part of the quest. There are some others that make appearances, but they pretty much come in when needed.

Oh, and why on earth would we give you a hard time for asking a question, kceccato? I think it's fun to talk about books and consider particular aspects of them. You always ask good questions and you make me think, make me see them from a different angle. It's your question that made Jim53 start this thread, and I like it! I don't know who ever gave you a hard time over a question, but they must have been ... Well, I won't use swearwords here. Just insert one of your choosing...

7> You remember absolutely right - the core party are Clay (rogue), Kat (wizard) and Neal (warrior), with Mr Penumbra off screen more often than on. Other women are Clay's other housemate (who I don't think we ever meet? Just hear about); the girl who works next door and occasionally buys a book; the older female member of the Unbroken Spine in San Fran whose house Clay goes to; and the lady who runs the art gallery / charity that he goes to talk to. So err, pretty peripheral and forgettable ;) I can't remember a single one of their names, which is saying something I guess - it's not that long since I read it!

5,7> and yes, boooo to people who don't like being asked questions! Tch. Getting to talk about the books is half the fun - so hooray for LT!

I'd echo what Jim, imyril and zjakkelien have said above about Kat and about the supporting characters as a whole. It's actually a nice change to see a female character putting her own goals and career ahead of the guy's needs. Because we see everything through Clay's eyes, I felt the book slightly disapproved of her for this, but I think it was just because Clay feels a bit abandoned by her - it's never spelled out, but I just got that feeling. SPOILER: At the end of the book she reappears and it looks as though she and Clay are starting again, respecting each other's place in the world.

Beyond what we've already discussed, what did you like or not like about the book? I liked Kat's shirts, the link between the fantasy writer and the group, Mat's low-tech works, and the final "lesson" being delivered in PowerPoint. I wasn't crazy about the apparent moral of the story, which seemed a bit trite; maybe I missed something there?

I'll have to think about it a bit longer, but I really liked when Kat got this large Google team together to crack the secret. Although it was all performed with computers, it felt like magic.

Bump!

As I've just read it.

It's a single character POV - Clay - and hence no-one else gets much characterisation. While Clay and Kat have a relationship she features more heavily in the plot, but after she's invested a lot of time and personal kudos they drift apart and Clay is on his own once again. FWIW I don't think there's much chance they'll get together again, she has her career to think of now - a nice touch.

I enjoyed it. Really has a YA urban fantasy feel to it, without their being anything particularly fantastic about it at all. But there could have been.

I wasn't inclined to read the rest of the series though.

>13 reading_fox: I read the short prequel, which was really rather charming :) Are there more?

I think it's just the prequel at the moment ... that's all that's catalogued on LT anyway. But it kind of feels there ought to be more. I had assumed there were, until I checked.

Thanks Jim53 for directing me here!

I finished this over a week ago, so mostly what is left in my brain are warm fuzzy thoughts about the story. I realized at the end of it that it managed to be a page turner without violence, sex or foul language. I think that deserves a mention.

Not being an RPG person, I still enjoyed the setup. I'm trying to figure out the moral of the story? Appreciate what you have and who you are with?

Personally, I loved the solution to the mystery. Something so simple and human that computers didn't get it. I enjoyed all of the geekiness around typesetting.

I could see there being more books after this, and I would read them. I enjoyed the way the author used his words and his plotting.

It was lovely that the geeky girl "bought The Times newspaper but "did not know how to operate it."

So many clever little touches, loved it.