Este tema está marcado actualmente como "inactivo"—el último mensaje es de hace más de 90 días. Puedes reactivarlo escribiendo una respuesta.
1bookblotter
The New York Times has an interesting article about 413 acres of land along the Rio Grande US-Mexican border. The land was originally north of the Rio Grande in the US and after a private diversion of water course, ended up south of the Rio Grande and ostensibly in Mexico. Ultimately, the US gave the land to Mexico about a hundred years ago as folks that lived on the land regarded themselves as Mexicans and neither side, with the passage of time, knew differently.
My first "real" job was working for a title insurance company and for a city boy used to living on Lot 6 in Block 14 in Sam's Subdivision it was an awakening to see rural land descriptions - so called metes & bounds descriptions - go on for pages in some cases. Many, if not most, legal descriptions set forth such markers as running to the old oak tree near the Corning Road or following the path of the Small Pox Creek (An aside - who named the creek, someone that didn't want other folks living there? I actually have a house near a Small Pox Creek).
In some cases, the legal descriptions go on and on for good size tracts of land. Oak trees, while very sturdy and with longevity do eventually give up and creeks and rivers (notoriously including the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers and feeder rivers in the midwest US) change course.
My job had nothing to do directly with legal descriptions, but a friend was the go-to guy at the same title company then at figuring out what they meant, in some cases plotting out and drawing by hand (this was around 1960) the land configuration on paper including drawing by hand the related land borders in old, historic terms with and reconciling the old description with modern and, hopefully, more permanent and findable markers. Occasionally, he would spend days on one piece of property reconciling the description with history, neighboring legal descriptions, etc.
He was a wizard at the history and mapping and drawing of the tracts and I was jealous.
My first "real" job was working for a title insurance company and for a city boy used to living on Lot 6 in Block 14 in Sam's Subdivision it was an awakening to see rural land descriptions - so called metes & bounds descriptions - go on for pages in some cases. Many, if not most, legal descriptions set forth such markers as running to the old oak tree near the Corning Road or following the path of the Small Pox Creek (An aside - who named the creek, someone that didn't want other folks living there? I actually have a house near a Small Pox Creek).
In some cases, the legal descriptions go on and on for good size tracts of land. Oak trees, while very sturdy and with longevity do eventually give up and creeks and rivers (notoriously including the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers and feeder rivers in the midwest US) change course.
My job had nothing to do directly with legal descriptions, but a friend was the go-to guy at the same title company then at figuring out what they meant, in some cases plotting out and drawing by hand (this was around 1960) the land configuration on paper including drawing by hand the related land borders in old, historic terms with and reconciling the old description with modern and, hopefully, more permanent and findable markers. Occasionally, he would spend days on one piece of property reconciling the description with history, neighboring legal descriptions, etc.
He was a wizard at the history and mapping and drawing of the tracts and I was jealous.
2Africansky1
An interesting post ... Makes one appreciate the importance of title deeds, legal documents, survey maps , legal boundaries and all the land tenure systems we take for granted in developed societies. Personal title, the legal protection of tenure , rights of inheritance and the facility to buy and sell land are vital components in promoting investment in land, farming and organized agriculture .
3Noisy
This resonated with a Radio 4 programme I heard today - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03mj1y4 - which mentioned a border being defined by a river. The River Tweed separates England and Scotland - what to do when the river changes its course?
5wcarter
>3 Noisy:,4
If you look at the US state borders along meandering rivers like the Mississippi you will find that the present state border follows the course of the river from a century or more ago so that tiny parts of one state are now on the opposite bank to the rest. There are numerous examples of this around the world. The delta at the mouth of the Danube is another where the Ukraine, Moldova and Romania get rather mixed, and the convolutions around the Ganges in NW Bangladesh on its border with India are extraordinary.
If you look at the US state borders along meandering rivers like the Mississippi you will find that the present state border follows the course of the river from a century or more ago so that tiny parts of one state are now on the opposite bank to the rest. There are numerous examples of this around the world. The delta at the mouth of the Danube is another where the Ukraine, Moldova and Romania get rather mixed, and the convolutions around the Ganges in NW Bangladesh on its border with India are extraordinary.
6bookblotter
In a similar vein...
The NY Times had an article back in November, 2011 about Point Roberts, Washington being isolated from "mainland" USA/Washington state and the difficulty of roadway ingress & egress from there to the main part of the USA after 9/11.
That set me thinking... Are there other US points, other than islands or Alaska, along the US national border with Canada or Mexico similarly cut off from the mainland US? Turning to my research library, my well worn Rand McNally 2006 Road Atlas...
I found that, in the Lake of the Woods area, Angle Township, Minnesota has a fairly large point jutting east from Manitoba. Most of it is a part of the Red Lake Indian Reservation(s). I don't vouch for this article from The Walrus, a Canadian magazine, but did like or found humorous some of it.
There is a point coming south into Lake Champlain out of Quebec Province, Canada into Vermont that is similar to Point Roberts, except for having bridges to mainland USA.
Some years ago gawking at a similar road atlas, I noticed that Illinois, my state, had a small blob of land on the east side of the Mississippi River labelled as part of Iowa or Missouri (I've forgotten which), so I took a look at Illinois in the Rand McNally Atlas noted here and couldn't find it again. I did, however, see two invasions by Indiana on the west side of the Wabash River. One is east of Carmi, IL, south of I-64; the other west of Evansville, IN south of Indiana 62/Illinois 141. You have to be vigilant, the next thing you know, the Hoosiers (for non-US folks, people from Indiana) will try to take over Chicago when we Illinois folks aren't looking.
Historically, the area now (most of) Chicago almost ended up in Wisconsin as Illinois' first proposed northern border was even with the south end of Lake Michigan. Typical Illinois folks, we made a deal to get decent access to Lake Michigan.
The NY Times had an article back in November, 2011 about Point Roberts, Washington being isolated from "mainland" USA/Washington state and the difficulty of roadway ingress & egress from there to the main part of the USA after 9/11.
That set me thinking... Are there other US points, other than islands or Alaska, along the US national border with Canada or Mexico similarly cut off from the mainland US? Turning to my research library, my well worn Rand McNally 2006 Road Atlas...
I found that, in the Lake of the Woods area, Angle Township, Minnesota has a fairly large point jutting east from Manitoba. Most of it is a part of the Red Lake Indian Reservation(s). I don't vouch for this article from The Walrus, a Canadian magazine, but did like or found humorous some of it.
There is a point coming south into Lake Champlain out of Quebec Province, Canada into Vermont that is similar to Point Roberts, except for having bridges to mainland USA.
Some years ago gawking at a similar road atlas, I noticed that Illinois, my state, had a small blob of land on the east side of the Mississippi River labelled as part of Iowa or Missouri (I've forgotten which), so I took a look at Illinois in the Rand McNally Atlas noted here and couldn't find it again. I did, however, see two invasions by Indiana on the west side of the Wabash River. One is east of Carmi, IL, south of I-64; the other west of Evansville, IN south of Indiana 62/Illinois 141. You have to be vigilant, the next thing you know, the Hoosiers (for non-US folks, people from Indiana) will try to take over Chicago when we Illinois folks aren't looking.
Historically, the area now (most of) Chicago almost ended up in Wisconsin as Illinois' first proposed northern border was even with the south end of Lake Michigan. Typical Illinois folks, we made a deal to get decent access to Lake Michigan.
7bluejw
Hi all
This has always been an interesting activity, studying maps for those little odd pieces of land that get created by our non-natural boundaries and the shapes of some of those boundaries (i.e. the circular arc at the north end of Delaware -surveyors nightmare I would imagine)
As for the Mississippi River boundaries check out "the Rule of Thalweg". This is the legal base for most borders along navigable rivers between countries and states. I believe it derives from
old European law but I'm not sure of the history. It basically states that boundaries follow the center of the navigable channel in rivers and that as islands form, riverbeds shift, etc, the
boundaries follow the navigation channel. there are also other rules for the accreation and deposition of land bordering river banks and coastlines.
bluejw
This has always been an interesting activity, studying maps for those little odd pieces of land that get created by our non-natural boundaries and the shapes of some of those boundaries (i.e. the circular arc at the north end of Delaware -surveyors nightmare I would imagine)
As for the Mississippi River boundaries check out "the Rule of Thalweg". This is the legal base for most borders along navigable rivers between countries and states. I believe it derives from
old European law but I'm not sure of the history. It basically states that boundaries follow the center of the navigable channel in rivers and that as islands form, riverbeds shift, etc, the
boundaries follow the navigation channel. there are also other rules for the accreation and deposition of land bordering river banks and coastlines.
bluejw
8amarie
I enjoyed the series How the State Got Their Shapes for these very reasons. I think they even talked about the Lake of the Woods area.
Watch full episodes online from the History Channel
Watch full episodes online from the History Channel
9Akubra
2014 may see the first border change for Belgium in almost a century, due to the rectification of the Meuse River between the 1960s and 1980s. The Strange Maps article Sex and Drugs and Border Changes explains it in detail.
10thorold
>9 Akubra:
The Dutch/Belgian border is always fun - never more so than in Baarle-Hertog/Baarle-Nassau. The Swiss/German border also has its share of oddities, like the German enclave of Büsingen near Schaffhausen.
The Dutch/Belgian border is always fun - never more so than in Baarle-Hertog/Baarle-Nassau. The Swiss/German border also has its share of oddities, like the German enclave of Büsingen near Schaffhausen.
11Akubra
>10 thorold: If you're into weird borders you might like A Theory of Enclaves. Sometimes a bit repetitive, but quite interesting. Among others, Baarle, Büsingen and the Indo-Bangladesh enclaves, counter-enclaves and one counter-counter-enclave of the Cooch-Behar district are treated.
