Coming out as and atheist (or other non-believer)

For the most part, I came out of the closet as a non-religious person somewhere in my late teens. And for years, I've been pretty open about my stance on religion. However, a month or two ago, my good friend (and fellow LTer/Happy Heathen) clam shared something on Facebook about how it is time for atheists to come out of the closet (I'd say exactly what the post was, save for Facebook sucks so incredibly much that it crashes Safari everytime I try to scroll through old posts).

Any way, it made me think how important it is for atheists and agnostics to speak up and come out of the closet. How we'd be much less a minority if all of us were out.

It also made me loosen up a bit and be even more open with my beliefs...or lack thereof. I started online, in simple ways, first by removing the privacy setting from my "religion" section on Facebook (the only social network I use that asks for such a thing)—making my atheism public for all to browse. I then extended my openness to my postings, sharing far more scientific and atheism-related posts. My hypothesis going into this little experiment was that I would no doubt upset a few people on my friends list, while others would probably just hide my posts. And, it wasn't long at all until my hypothesis was proven.

It started with a post over science's many victories vs. prayer's shortcomings, and then deteriated into a series of "science isn't so great" slash "faith gives me strength" arguments from two friends. The debate never really got heated, yet it resulted in one of them unfriending me. Then recently, I reposted a meme of Stephen Colbert mocking the Catholic Church for it's sex scandles. This drew some anger from my in-laws, who aren't even Catholic.

My in person interactions have gone a similar way, though without the loss of any friendships. Just the usual arguments that drift off into "Well, the Bible tells us that..."

So I was wondering, what has been the experiance of everyone here when coming out—a little or all the way—with your friends? Be they online or real life. And if you haven't really come out, why not?

In my environment it's the religious people who have to come out :) Atheism is the default. This is in Finland, most of my friends are in their 30s and I work in software development.

I do have "Atheism" marked on Facebook, but no-one's ever commented on it.

When I summarized a recent news item as "Leader of the child molestation institute says that non-members can be good people too", I got several "likes" and no negative comments.

So, fellow atheists, take heart -- the promised land is out there :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rwc3VGvlRY ;-)

In fact, if it wasn't for the language (which complete throws me) I would probably move there. Have been a visitor - love the country. Also much better opportunities to engage in my hobbies of snow and ice sculpting than here in the Netherlands.

p.s.: But, likewise, it's pretty much a non-issue here too. Though if you include the lukewarm, religious people may still be the majority.

Good for you, dodger! (Incidentally, until a quick glance at your profile page I had no idea who started this group - thank you for having done so, even if I suspect it may not always have gone the way you'd intended.)

Here in the UK coming out isn't a problem. I wouldn't go quite so far as to say, as Amtep says about Finland, that atheism is the default but it certainly doesn'r raise any eyebrows, and it's sometimes hard for me to comprehend how that isn't the case in what we still think of as the leading country of the free and progressive world. It's also sometimes easy for us to forget just how much courage it must take to come out in your environment. So little is religion discussed over here (many people still think it's somehow impolite to raise the subject) that I can sometimes go for years without knowing what the beliefs or otherwise are of my friends and acquaintances.

I do believe very strongly that it is important that we atheists make our views* known and let the rest of the world know we're out there. I grew up in a family that was nominally C of E, though not church-going, my father claimed to have faith but didn't let it affect the way he lived his life, while my mother called herself an agnostic throughout her life but she still thought there was something unkind about pointing out the truth to people who preferred to kid themsleves that there is 'something out there', however sensitively it was done. There was a definite feeling that the beliefs of an atheist were somehow less valid than those of a believer. and I wasn't willing to perpetuate that.

Incidentally, one of the best books I've read recently on the subject is Why are You Atheists So Angry? by Greta Christina. Highly recommended to all and sundry.

* Isn't it time we came up with a word for 'lack of belief' or 'views on a religion that we don't believe in'? I'm heading rapidly for RSI with the number of times I have to type the words 'belief - or lack of it'.

>3 Nicole_VanK: Woof! You need to come on Down Under and show us what you can do in a slightly different medium.

Our Prime Minister was an atheist. Well, very likely she still is, but she got chucked out and now we have (for a short time, probably), a Christian who (says he) supports Marriage Equality. Which the non-married, in a straight de facto relationship, atheist ex-prime minister did not.

Strange days, indeed.

I basically live in the Bible Belt in the southeast US. Down the block from my workplace is a church that owns I think 6 blocks of the downtown area? and is hugely influential on the city council. Like, if you want the city council to do anything, you have to go to that church and kiss up to them. It's disgusting. They were a huge force in keeping the city from passing an update to the Human Rights Commission forbidding discrimination based on sexuality or gender-identity (we're the only big city in Florida that doesn't have such a law).

It shocked me to discover that most of the people I work with are atheist or agnostic.

We're a small group, maybe 30 people, but for only 5 or so to be openly religious basically blew me away. None of us talks about it much, even to each other we tend to be very quiet when talking about religious or political news items (such as the city council), though most of us agree with one another, more or less.

I think it's a symptom of what it's like to be openly atheist/socially liberal around here. My siblings all know, I think? and don't really care, but my parents act like I'm refusing to believe in god in order to hurt them or something bizarre. I don't dare let other relatives know, much less strangers. I don't want to be subjected to hours of angry shouting or praying at me. I made the mistake once and couldn't escape for about fifteen minutes... which activated some of what I call religious-ptsd from the fire-and-brimstone nonsense i was subjected to in childhood. When I start hearing people shout about that at me, I get all turtley and have to fight the panic attack.

But it is lovely to know that when I'm at work, I won't have to fake religious belief or agreement, and I won't have to worry about people saying something that trips up my panic response. I wish that the religious people around here weren't so noisy and loud, so that all the quiet atheists and agnostics could be more visible. Even the folks who aren't Christian are relatively loud about their beliefs, almost defensively it seems.

and don't really care, but my parents act like I'm refusing to believe in god in order to hurt them or something bizarre.

I believe that my aunt has actually explicitly made that statement to my cousin at times.

Was it this one?



I have hit some rough patches on FaceBook over religion. Not going to stand down, though.

#3:

I've lived here for 13 years without knowing the language :) (except for food words, you do have to be able to read the menu, unless you just live dangerously)

You probably need a job in IT though.

> 9: You probably need a job in IT though.

Yeah, or become independently wealthy - neither of which is likely to happen ;-)

> 4 Booksloth, the impression I get is that in the UK, religion is viewed as more of a private matter, and that yammering on constantly in public about your religion, or trying to make others do so, is considered crass and rather odd. :) Is that true?

I'm "out" to my friends and online -- many of my friends are atheist, agnostic, etc.; the ones who are religious are mainly Pagan/Heathen, or Buddhist, though I've a few Christian and Jewish friends here and there too. I live in a comfortably secular part of the U.S. I actually was randomly evangelized on the street by a lady the other day on my way to the bus stop, but that stood out to me precisely because I almost never experience that type of thing. In other parts of the U.S., though, it can be very different, as keristars says above.

The only people I'm not "out" to are my family, although my parents are smart people and have probably figured it out by now. ;) We get along well and they don't badger me about religion. Unfortunately some families do badger their children about this and it causes a lot of unhappiness.

> 2, 3, 4, 5 -- This is why I don't hang around here as much as I used to...it makes me want to move to Europe (or Australia). I have visited both places, and I can say I noticed a difference with regards to religion. Even in heavily Catholic Ireland, it somehow seemed less "in your face" than many parts of the US.

Clam! (>8 clamairy:) Yes! That's the one!

And, Booksloth, you are quite welcome! I love this group and its members. I suppose topics haven't always gone the way I envisioned, but then again, when I started it, I wondered if anyone else would join. I am very proud of what this group has become, and it's always nice to pop in for a chat with like-minded people...and honestly, for debate with those of differing views. For the most part, it is a group filled with polite, educated folks, and I am so happy to see that.

I live in Colorado Springs (but only for a couple more months; then I will be living in Vegas, which should be much, much less religious, overall...). Colorado Springs is an insane little town where most everyone assumes you are religious. And by 'religious,' that of course means Christian. It's home to some of the biggest evangelical groups like Focus on the Family. The 'element' those groups brought to town are the number one reason we're leaving.

I've been "the way I am" (as a cousin put it) since I was a teenager. And I am very fortunate that my family has never given me grief about it. My dad did lose his damned mind over Christianity for a period, but he came out of it. He was hard on me then, but he was also hard on everyone who didn't agree with him. My parents both believe in a god, but aren't church-goes. Both my grandfathers are/we're atheists, and my grandmothers were basically indifferent to religion. I have a few cousins who are very religious--and one of them has stopped talking to me altogether--but most of my family is pretty unreligious, which is very nice. I've never really had to hide what I feel. That said, living in such a religious community, the question "What church do you go to" comes up at least weekly if you go to any kind of gathering. And until recently, I owned a small business in town (sold it so I can move). I must admit to watching my mouth around potential clients because, if I were to be branded an atheist in this town, I believe it most certainly have damaged our business.

So I do understand that there are many social reasons why one wouldn't want to be too out. However, I do think that as more and more of us do come out (not "if," because it is happening every day!), we can become more like Europe, in the sense that few will fault you for not going to church or for not being Christian.

As if to provide a counter to my message #2... today a man in the train tried to give me some pamphlets about Jesus. It was quite touching, he'd handwritten some of them and drawn flowers. The conversation was a bit limited because I didn't speak finnish and he didn't speak english, but it was pleasant overall. I didn't tell him I was an atheist because that would have made it too complicated -- I could barely remember the word for "book" as it was, and I utterly failed on the word for "read".

He told me he'd been addicted to alcohol and Jesus had helped him stay sober for 37 years.

That somewhat reminds me of my college roommate who was a heavy drinker and smoker. She went ga-ga over religion and gave her cigarettes to Jesus. When he wants her to start smoking again he will give them back. Her mental health was always sketchy and has gotten worse with age, but at least she's not smoking, though the booze is still there.

>6 keristars:

I also live in the Bible Belt, but I have to say that since many of my neighbors consider me a pervert (because I'm gay) and a Commie (I support universal health care and state funding for the arts) and a tree hugger (I'm in favor of conserving habitats to protect endangered species) the fact that I'm also an atheist barely registers as a blip on the radar of their moral outrage.

On the other hand, I've noticed that while most of the people in my community have theoretical objections to the things I believe (or don't believe) or the things I am (or am not) when it comes right down to it, we all get along pretty well in the real world, where things like atheism or what you voted on the last referendum are less important than being around to watch each other's pets when one of you goes out of town, or bringing food over when someone's kid is going through chemotherapy, or just waving hi as you pass each other jogging.

#14 When he wants her to start smoking again he will give them back

Yeah, he says! I bet if she asked for them back now she'd find somebody has smoked the lot.

#11 the impression I get is that in the UK, religion is viewed as more of a private matter, and that yammering on constantly in public about your religion, or trying to make others do so, is considered crass and rather odd. :) Is that true?

In general, I think that puts it rather well, Essa. Because religion plays such a small part in most people's lives here, it is not a subject the majority of people feel they need to discuss. I don't think it's really considered bad manners to raise the subject now, as it was when my parents were young, but if you were to approach a stranger at a party (say) and open the conversation by asking them about their religion, that person would usually assume (rightly, in my experience) that they were in for an evening of ear-bashing if they didn't get away pretty damn quick. The general feeling is that religion is out there and if people want to go to church or consider themself religious in any other way, it's up to them as long as they don't bother the rest of us with it.

Of course, it wouldn't be considered particularly weird if you started that party conversation with an anecdote that had religion as a central point. Commenting on something you saw on the way to the party, for instance, would be considered normal and may even be interesting or entertaining but you'd soon get a lot of blank looks and people wandering off if you used that story as an excuse to preach.

Of course, what we talk about to strangers at parties has little connection with what we talk about to our close friends and relatives. ;-)

I've never "come out" as such. It was just a matter of as I got older I drifted away from religion and belief that there is a definitely a "god". People can pretty much figure it out after awhile, and for the most part just accept that that's who I am. I'll get into the occasional religious discussion, but none of my friends will "throw" their religion into my face. I've only had one person who I reconnected with via Facebook from my High School days be unaccepting. He told me I was worshiping Satan and had gone to the "dark side" because of the posts I made against religion. He then unfriended me and blocked me.

For the most part, the friends from HS that I've reconnected with either ignore my posts that may be "anti religion", or just make a mild comment. (I went to a Christian Reformed HS, so for many of them religion was, and still is, a big part of their lives.)