Not religious but 'spiritual'

Awe and wonder is how spiritual people often describe their relationship with the world. There's a sense that life is more than pounds and pence, of work, childcare and the rest of the daily grind

Fair enough. Unfortunately many 'spiritual' people go far beyond that and believe in pseudo-scientific nonsense and New Age philosophy. It seems to me that non-religious spirituality is a substitute for scientific ignorance. If your eyes glaze over when a scientist begins an explanation you are more likely to be spiritual.

#2 I'm glad I'm not the only one, darrow. It's not a position I have a great deal of respect for (though that doesn't mean I don't also respect many people who hold it). To me, it just sounds a bit as if the speaker would like to believe in something but hasn't quite decided what that something is going to be.

I like the reference to The Beatles. It reminds me of John writing Sexy Sadie, not to be confused with Sadie Hawkins even though neither had much to offer in the way of heavenly bodies.

Who am I to say what is fair, my religion is art. It is not about spirituality, connecting with nature, or a gap in my life that needs fulfilment. Art inspires awe in me, is that being spiritual?

Anyone who wants to battle science, be it religious or non-religious spirituality, needs to learn that gravity always wins.

#4 Art inspires awe in me, is that being spiritual?

Um, no. Well, I should probably say, 'no, in my book'. Awe is a perfectly healthy response to any number of things that make us feel small and insignificant and what I really don't get about these people is why they have to call everything that gives them a bit of a thrill 'religion' or 'spirituality'.

I often hear the argument that the existence of god is 'proved' (I know that's not what you're saying, WLF-x) by a sense of awe or an appreciation of beauty. The thinking seems to be that something beautiful had to be created by god (an amazing non- sequitur if ever I heard one). That might hold a bit more water if there was anything on this earth that is inherently and indisputably 'beautiful' but there isn't - every single thing that one person considers beautiful, another considers ugly.

Rereading the article, I don't really see anything there that distinguishes the 'spiritual' from the rest of us, besides a desire to attach a supernatural-sounding title to their collective thoughts.

Ed to close italics.

>5 Booksloth: I often hear the argument that the existence of god is 'proved' (I know that's not what you're saying, WLF-x) by a sense of awe or an appreciation of beauty. The thinking seems to be that something beautiful had to be created by god (an amazing non- sequitur if ever I heard one).

An interesting analysis of what human beings find "beautiful" can be found in A Sense of Order by E.H. Gombrich

I would also recommend The artful universe by John D. Barrow which suggests we humans may simply be hardwired to find some things beautiful.

#8 But wouldn't that suggest that we all find the same things beautiful, or have I misinterpreted that? Thanks for both book rexcommendations, though(#7/8), they look very interesting

No, just a preference for things falling within certain parameters. Beyond that there's obviously room for personal preference.

Keep going, you've got me hooked. What are the parameters?

It has been years, so I would have to reread. But as an art historian trying to look beyond usual art history I remember I was fascinated.

An example: we humans are pattern seekers. It's what makes us even "see" faces in facades of buildings. Fine. But why are we pattern seekers? Barrow makes an attempt at answering such questions.

As far as the faces go, isn't the theory so that as babies we respond to out mothers' faces with pleasure, thus increasing their pleasure in looking at us, thus ensuring we get fed?

In #9, I was thinking more of the changing nature of what people consider beautiful. For example, one of the citations I often hear given is that of mountain scenery etc. I am told that the awe we feel when we look at the beauty of a snow-capped mountain must be evidence of god having put it there (don't ask, I have no idea), ignoring the fact that it is a very modern notion that such places are beautiful and, until the Romantics came along, most people considered these wild natural landscapes a bit of an untidy mess. I must admit, that's quite hard for me to imagine - I can't picture standing in front of a stunning landscape and not being blown away by it - but that's just me. Beauty is so interlinked with fashion and culture that I'm a little fascinated to know whether there are exists anything at all that is considered beautiful by every person or even every culture. You know you've just added yet another book to my wishlist, don't you? Swine!

A lot of what people call "awe" is an appreciation of scale. We feel awe looking at a mountain or a starry sky partly because we are small and it is very big. There's probably some kind of evolutionary strategy of respect for what is more powerful than you are hardwired into that feeling.

The impression I got from an interview with Iain McGilchrist on The master and his emissary : the divided brain and the making of the Western world was there's point focus on the lunch in front of you whilst your spread awareness around you protects you from being the lunch.

Awe is a feeling absent the fear of maw ?

> 13: Oink. I mean: sorry!