Alter intermission II - Peak and fall and pondering the nature of the propaganda

1 & 2 Kings - and, since I can't predict, no schedule

Previous threads are
Prep: http://www.librarything.com/topic/127545
Genesis: http://www.librarything.com/topic/129966
Exodus: http://www.librarything.com/topic/131811
Leviticus: http://www.librarything.com/topic/133405
Numbers: http://www.librarything.com/topic/135184
Deuteronomy: www.librarything.com/topic/136380
Joshua: http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927
Judges (same thread as Joshua, starts on post #69): http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927#3452932
Ruth (same thread as Joshua, starts on post #142): http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927#3478722
1 & 2 Samuel: http://www.librarything.com/topic/139684

The Siege of Lachish:


Chaos of battle


The losers


The Assyrian winners

source for the above: http://www.odysseyadventures.ca/articles/lachish_slides/lachish_text.htm

Kings will take us from the last days of King David to the Babylonian exile. We will see Solomon's wealth, the split into two kingdoms, Ahab and Jezebel's crimes and how they help lead to the fall of the Kingdom of Israel to Assyria. Hezekiah will hold out in Jerusalem while the rest of Judah is plundered by Assyria (see above for what happened to Lachish). Josiah will push through his reforms and hope, and then...he just kind of dies. Finally Babylon will follow Assyrian and wipe out Judah and the Davidic line will end.

We are into real history here with many sources confirmed, or contradicted, outside the bible. Various Mesopotamian archives mention Kingdom of Israel kings Omri, Ahab, Jehu and Judahite kings Hezekiah & Manasseh.

If you believe Israel Finkelstein, then this history is full of intense propaganda. His (and others) take is that the Kingdom of Israel was rich and powerful, reaching their height under the great and wealthy kings Omri and Ahab. Whereas the Kingdom of Judah, and Jerusalem, was in the boonies. But, when the Kingdom of Israel fell, naturally well protected Jerusalem become a point of refuge and instantly become the main city in the region. Hezekiah, the first true YHWH-ish king, become suddenly very powerful and influential, and inspired a massive Assyrian invasion. His follower, Manasseh, was far more practical and not particularly concerned with Hezekiah's hyper-conservative religion. But these YHWH-ist got their man to go next. Josiah pushed hard to make is Judahists properly Jewish. And somewhere in this milieu the bible was first composed, with Josiah's fingerprints firmly upon it. In Judah's version of history Judah takes the lead throughout and the failed kings Hezekiah and Josiah get celebrated. Whereas the successful kings—namely Omri, Ahab and Manasseh—they suddenly become responsible for the ruin because their religious "infidelity".

But really, who knows the truth. Regardless of the real truth and your own sense of the possible truths, this should at least stir the pot of our thoughts a little.

I'm excited about these books because Solomon was my favourite Bible character as a kid. Mostly because he was wise and I aspired to be wise too.

> 5

Then you may be in for a surprise. :P

I'm a Bible illiterate. I just remember a few stories, the one with the baby and the two women of course. And the queen of Sheba but I don't really know what her story is, she's just a name to me.

Her name according to the Quran is Bilqueis.

Coincidentally, I think Bilqueis was in American Gods. She was working as a prostitute that made her johns play-worship her, supposedly as a kinky sexual trick. (Since gods derive their power, and very livelihood, from worship and belief in Gaiman's universe.)

#8 - That's fascinating to me. I have no clue what's in the Quran, but didn't expect alternate OT stories.

alt spellings are Balqis, Bilqis or Bilquis, if your googling.

#9 - I remember the goddess, but completely missed the reference.

And now, another book review for your reading pleasure. Let's hope it helps us see Kings in a new light.

The King David Report by Stefan Heym
Finished 9/21-22/12

Ethan the Scribe, an eloquent historian, has been summoned to King Solomon's royal court. His task: to write The One and Only True and Authoritative, Historically Correct, and Officially Approved Report on the Amazing Rise, God-fearing Life, Heroic Deeds, and Wonderful Achievements of David the Son of Jesse, King of Judah for Seven years and of Both Judah and Israel for Thirty-three, Chosen of God, and Father of King Solomon. This book chronicles Ethan's perilous time writing this propaganda piece for this fickle and mean-spirited king.

Ethan rapidly realizes that he is in perilous waters: many of those surrounding King David's life are still alive, give different stories, and have power over him. Furthermore, he must put unflattering events in the text, else the Israelites who remember those events will not believe Solomon's propaganda piece. How does one tell enough truth to be credible but spin it enough to still make David look good? Ethan cannot win. After including information about David's alliance with the Philistines and his adulterous possession of Bathsheba, Solomon doesn't exactly find Ethan favorable.

What makes this story very interesting, aside from Heym's ability to help the reader keep track of many long-named characters, is the reflections on history-writing. Ethan never lies; he only tells the truth in a tactful and flattering way. When does this move from history to propaganda? To what extent is all history - which is all interpretation - propaganda? In the midst of this Ethan is attempting to satisfy King Solomon while trying to sate his own curiosity for the truth, which makes him visit some characters who do not think so highly of David (e.g. Joab, Michal).

But while this seems like a work of Biblical fiction alone, Heym's concern is with what happens to history when it is in the control of a totalitarian state. Heym escaped from Nazi Germany, and his concern with propaganda is only told in this Biblical setting as an allegory. Yet he's also done his research on the various personalities of David's life. I go back to the David stories with a more critical eye to the purpose and bias of the narrator - not something we often think about in a text supposedly divine and perfectly true.

Though Ethan's time in Jerusalem is traumatic, and King Solomon and the other members of the royal court are fickle and grotesque characters, Ethan in one sense is the victor. His account of David was later known as 1 and 2 Samuel. And he knows his power as a writer:

"'You were once among the might of the kindgdom, and among those who decided if a man was to be put to death or alloowed to live out his days in peace. But I decide how a man lives on after he is dead, in the eyes of the generations to come, and if a thousand years hence he is viewed as a frightened dotard, spittle running into his beard, or as a soldier facing his fate with dignity and with courage.'" - Ethan

Ooooh, I'll look for that.

Yes, thank you for the review, this sounds like a book I should read... someday...

9> Wow, I remember that goddess in American Gods and was frustrated because I had no idea who she was in "real" myth. Thank you.

Well, Kings 1 got off to a promising start. I didn't expect that end for Joab the bloody-handed--I thought he'd gotten away with all the bad shit he did. I'm not completely clear whether he was killed for supporting Adonijah or just for being a bastard. solomon sure doesn't take any chances, though, killing Adonijah like that too and then inaugurating his reign with bread-and-circuses architectural distraction. And isn't that tedious. We're back in Leviticus. So much for the promising start.

#12 J - My compliments to Ethan, he accomplished his work with remarkable success despite his trials. Of course, at the moment I don't believe in him, but that's neither here nor there. Good stuff, J.

#15 MM - I'll be slow in commenting here as I'm out of town this weekend and have some chores between now and then. I've read through chapter 7 (-ish), and I've read the Alter and RNSV versions* of chapter 1 & 2. Alter notes that 1 Kings 1 & 2 close the David story, and are maybe more properly part of Samuel. And, chapters 3-7 are a whole lot of nothing, a variation of the begats in the sense of its mindless ramblings. Much appreciated by me, who can use the lengthy transition.

Joab - that was a wow for me. David got him in the end.

Adonijah - a victim of circumstance. He got worked over by Nathan and Bathsheba, but don't forget that he takes Joab down with him. As I see it, David sacrificed Adonijah because it also brought down Joab...but that would be putting some intense calculating lucidity into the aged, paternally sensitive David.

Solomon - Point here, in chapter 1 & 2, is he is ruthlessly thorough. He starts out with a clear, calculated plan, and clears the table. No Lincoln-like inspiration here (sorry, I'm also reading about Lincoln)

Alter vs RNSV - Alter comes across as far more honest to the text. the RNSV interprets and prints a translation/interpretation, sometimes making note of the actual wording. I prefer a more straight forward translation, with the interpretation in the notes. It leaves me wanting more Alter.

*RNSV version would be the Revised New Standard Version version...pardon the grammar grammar.

#16: On your last points about Alter vs RNSV I have an ESV "study Bible" which suffers from the same fault - the "translation" is really an interpretation/viewpoint with sometimes a sectarian axe to grind. To be fair it does in the notes often mention alternatives. On a slightly different note all the Alter books I have read (5 Books of Moses, Psalms, Wisdom Books, David Story) have the text and commentary very closely linked - a layout I find very helpful. At present I've almost finished Ben Witherington's commentary on Revelation where the commentary is often several pages from the Bible text which is less helpful. But in fairness I must say it's an excellent book nevertheless as he has a lot of general comments which do not relate to specific verses but just to the general milieu of the times and to John of Patmos's intentions.

Ah yes, Bibles. My current Bible is the Revised Standard Version (no New), "presented to Glenda J. Smith by her mother in February, 1968." It's a fuck of a lot better than the Easy-to-Read Bible, I'll tell you that for free.

Well. Jeroboam and Rehoboam. Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber. I note, though, that they seem to be protected in order of proximity to David--Solomon set up altars to pagan gods, but he gets to live out his days and keep his line on the throne. Rehoboam does the same and loses 11/12 of his kingdom. (I guess Judah is one of the biggest chunnks, technically, but you know what I mean.) Jeroboam does the same and plunges Israel into chaos. I can see what you mean about the Judahite bent of the book.

Um, did I miss something with Elijah? I thought he was supposed to talk about Jesus. I thought the whole freakin' point of Elijah was he was Old Testament foreshadowing for Jesus. And unles I skipped a paragraph, the first mention of any kind of "saviour" is in II Kings 13:5–6, where the LORD sends a saviour to Jehoahaz. And those verses are in parentheses in my edition, and I don't know if that means they're special because of the saviour talk or what.

But at least I've got to the part where the kids make fun of Elisha's bald head and he gets God to have them devoured by bears, which I nominate as the Bible's most ludicrous low (at least up to this point).

Martin - Elijah is the foreshadowing for John the Baptist, not Jesus. They're both in the wilderness, calling others to follow the Lord. They're both charismatic figures. John the Baptist was a Nazarite, specifically consecrated to the Lord's service. and it's hinted that Elijah may have been too. Elijah had long hair and part of the Nazarite vow was to not cut your hair. Remember Samson's lengthy locks? Same deal.

Aha! I thought he predicted the coming of the Mesiah. It seems that the reality is more complicated and interesting. I see people on the internet suggesting that Elisha bears the same connection with Jesus that Elijah bears with John the Baptist, which seems ... incompatible with any theology I've ever heard.

#17 PossMan - I will try to look into those Cambridge commentaries in the future. My library doesn't have 1 or 2 Kings.

#18 - :)

#19 - 22 - Gah! You're all way ahead of me. Elijah, Elisha...I'm not there yet, don't recall what they do. The bears is pretty low, but I guess it works as an effective bogeyman story.

1 Kings 1-2 - Solomon steals and secures the throne.

Copied from the Samuel thread and pasted here, without and changes - just for completeness.

Chapter 1 - A feeble David finally out maneuvers Joab...

One of the best chapters in the story. David is old and mentally feeble, unsuccessfully warmed by a selected virgin, Abishag the shunammite. Joab, who in charge anyway, is moving on. Adonijah is the first in line for the thrown and Joab supports him and likely pushes his succession. But these politics have consequences. Solomon, Bathsheba, Nathan and others will all need to be liquidated if Adonijah is to secure the throne. They need to act.

Enter Bathsheba's brain. We haven't really met her yet. Here, with Nathan's help, she fully manipulates David, getting him to proclaim "'as I swore to you by the Lord God of Israel, saying, "Solomon your son shall be king after me, and he shall sit on my throne in my stead,"'" So, Solomon immediate becomes king, and Adonijah is left to concede, flipping the liquidation requirements around 180 degrees.

Now, was David really just a cloudy bumbling fool, or did he realize that this was finally payback at Joab?

Chapter 2 - last curses, liquidation and a glorious future...

Moses is really the king of the dying curse. But Jacob had his, and so did Joshua, but not so elaborate. Samuel merely curses Saul (in the afterlife). So, David is in the theme when his dying words are curses. David's are relayed in a private council with Solomon. Of Joab, Solomon is told, "do not let his gray head go down in peace to Sheol.". Shimei is condemned as well. Angry is a death bed.

In any case Solomon runs this all through:
Adonijah - Benaiah stabs him on Solomon's orders, over that shunammite.
Abiathar - he just made the wrong choice. He's banished and Eli's blood is out of the priesthood.
Joab - He's killed while holding the horns of the alter - the ones that are supposed to protect fugitives. Benaiah again
Shimei - given a deal he can't refuse and can't obey. Say hi to Benaiah.

Benaiah is now commander of the army
Zadok is now head priest

"And the kingdom was unshaken in Solomon's hand"

For the record I have a book mark somewhere in the middle of God Knows...but on the other hand, it's not drawing me. I have to force myself to read it.

1 Kings 3-11 - Solomon and his lack of narrative

Main thoughts:
1. Strange that after all that creative force on Samuel, Saul and David, we are left with nothing in Solomon. The narrative is dead.
2. A Deuteronomist take over. Everything in this text is infiltrated with the language of Deuteronomy.
3. I think the later (2) has a lot to do with the former (1). But then maybe the story just needed this break.
4. This makes me think of Joshua in that things are very good, success all around. Sure Solomon had flaws - too rich, too many wives, prayed to other Gods - but, he built the temple. And, the little Heb got rich, and had 1000 wives, had praise from visiting powerful queens, and a name known throughout he world. The little Heb made good.

Chapter 3 - Solomon's wisdom, odd sense of motherhood (and seeds of failure)

Gibeon - God speaks to Solomon for the first time. He offers Solomon anything, and the clever Solomon asks merely for wisdom ("Give your servant therefore a listening heart to govern your people, able to distinguish between good and evil...")

It seems odd that this happens in Gibeon.

Also Solomon marries a non-Israelite - the Pharaoh's daughter. Impressive, but impure.

And the baby story. It's supposed to show Solomon's wisdom, but I'm not impressed. However, when I learned this in Hebrew school, they left out the bit about the two woman being prostitutes and how one of the woman had accidentally smothered her baby.

Chapter 4 - a celebration of Solomon's rule, but notice the problems.

The two list of officers are followed by a description of the greatness of Solomon's reign, all of which echo Samuel's warnings. Further, the map of districts does not follow tribal boundaries. Solomon is intentionally trying to break these tribes up. He a bad rich dude getting involved in everyone's business...

And we hear about all Solomon's proverbs and song (thousands). And we learn of psalmists Ethan and Herman and musicians Calcol and Darda.

Chapter 5 - Prep for temple construction

King Hiram of Tyre supplies the cedar and cypress and Sidonian/Phoenician/Gebolite craftsman.
Lots of non-Israelite slave labor

Chapter 6 - Building the temple

Curious how small it seems
We get a date - 480 years after Exodus and 4 years into Solomon's reign - which HarperCollins tells me is 966 or 956 bce

Chapter 7 - Solomon's Palace and the other Hiram of Tyre and the some descriptions of the temple.

This Hiram of Tyre is not a king, but an Israelite from Naphtali - or maybe this lie is a weird attempt to show the temple is an Israelite design, the liars just sort of neglected to the change the name.

Chapter 8 - Dedication of the temple.

Some interesting details here about the Ark:
- "There was nothing in the ark except two tables of stone that Moses had placed there at Horeb..."
- "And when the priests came out of the holy place, a cloud filled the house of the LORD , so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud; for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD"
- "The LORD has said he will dwell in thick darkness"

What did Indiana think about this?

Solomon's speeches and prayers are (1) about fulfilling the prophecy (which makes me think of Joshua);(2) heavily Deuteronomistic in wording and theology (which also makes me think of Joshua, especially when he says "not one word has failed of all his good promise") and (3) has an exile story added in (8:46-53)

Worth quoting : "But will God indeed dwell on earth? Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built!"

Chapter 9 - God talks to Solomon again, and some acts of Solomon

Deuteronomistic overload

lots of obscure yet interesting details
- the non-king Hiram of Tyre's rejection of the cities of Galilee
- the extensive use of slaves - here specified as non-Israelite (but elsewhere Israelite too)
- the rebuilding of Gezer
- the Millo ??
- the Phoenician Red Sea fleet, which Solomon takes credit for
- The mysterious far away Ophir

Chapter 10 - The Queen of Sheba

Highly recommend comparing the stories of Bilqueis, queen of Saba, in the Quran (I just used wikipedia. Thanks Anna!)

The point here is that an important foreign figure highly praised Solomon's wealth and wisdom. This is Solomon's highest praise.

Chapter 11 - Solomon a bad boy

- 700 princess and 300 concubines - terribly immoral this guy. But...just saying, he's got nothing on Wilt Chamberlain's 20,000.
- so, he happened to pray to some other gods...Astarte, Milcom, Chemosh, Molech (child sacrifice...look this one up on wikipedia, if you haven't done so yet)

Anyway, Solomon gets the kingdom cursed. Of course, he did built the temple, so the curse get's postponed a generation. But the enemies start strengthening...and worse, Jeroboam gets away after he got the good parts of the curse transferred to him. The prophet Ahijah promised him ten tribes. For now he's hiding in Egypt under Shishak (the historically real Pharaoh Shoshenq I, 931-910 bce)

Solomon dies, Rehoboam succeeds him. And the stage is state for some interesting stuff to happen...

Let's not lose sight here, though. Solomon is another King Arthur story. In all likelihood there was a Solomon in the line of more powerful leaders of podunk Judah. But the king as described here is just fanciful wish-fulfillment - he had women, riches, and the wealthy ten northern tribes - dream on. Oh, and he wasn't so bad, he built the temple. Deuteronomistic propaganda...or maybe not. Who knows. Archeologists make mistakes...

re messages 26-28 - done editing (for now)

OK, starting to catch up. As Dan I think remarked in another thread, reading goes much quicker without Alter's notes, but I miss them.

I understand now why Alter included 1 King 1 and 2 in his David story. It's very obvious they belong there. After that we get a Deuteronomist rewriting of the story, with a different David, a different Solomon and a different God, who now officially resides in Heaven but keeps some kind of presence in the Temple and metes out rewards and punishments according to His people's merits. Very neat and tidy. Yawn.

#30 - The change is so strange to me. What happened? How was there so much creative force around David, and yet Solomon was left as a Deuteronomized cipher? Maybe there was intent. Maybe David parallels Moses and Solomon parallels Joshua. That might be arguing for more creative force around Moses than there really is. Anyway, confusing to me, anyway.

I think it's fascinating because it hints at the history of the book, and at the religious, social and political context in which it was written and edited. Of course, the ones who got to write the book were not necessarily the people in power at that time. It raises a lot of questions that can never be fully answered. But I find that questions are often much more exciting than answers, especially in the literary and artistic field.

To be honest I was never really that taken by the David story, even though it's the closest we have so far in the book to the kind of literature we are used to. For the moment I kind of welcome the change, it tickles my curiosity.

I am a lurker, but have a couple insights from Arno J Wolfgramm's commentary on Kings, which I am reading. I'm not reading Alter, so if he mentions these, I apologize.

Chapter 8

Post 26 "Worth quoting : "But will God indeed dwell on earth? Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built!""

Wolfgramm contrasts this with surrounding heathen (non-Judaic) tribes that believed gods were limited to certain geographical areas as the Aramians did in 1Kings 20:23. (edited to fix typo)

Verse 41. Solomon expects others (non Jews) to hear of God's works and believe. This verse is important from the Christian/gentile perspective.

Chapter 9
V 14: Now Hiram had sent the king 120 talents of gold.
...my commentary says this is the equivalent of 4 and a half **TONS** of gold. Not to mention all the cedar and pine Solomon wanted. 20 small towns may well have been bad repayment.

33>

Chapter 8/Verse 41: yes, I noticed that too about non Jews being drawn to the LORD.

Chapter 9: Wow, no wonder the people thought they were being overtaxed. Seems that Rehoboam (in my French translation he is Roboam) paid the price for the extravagance of his father. Solomon must have been pretty heavy handed on the taxes to pay for all that gold and precious wood.

streamsong - Nice to see you posting here finally. You're welcome to join or just comment. Please keep in mind, in case it applies and I don't know whether it does, that this group read is entirely literary. We are carefully and strictly doing everything possible to keep any religious tilt out of the discussion. I overstep to try to make that happen. For anyone interested, there are plenty of other religious threads on LT. One thread on the bible without it, so far, has been a good thing.

Sorry, had to post that.

...

#33/34 no clue who is Wolfgramm is...

chap 8 - I hadn't fully appreciated that comment. But, thinking, it seems that up through David this God is fully Israelite in focus. The one exception might be Ruth, but that's a later writing. So, maybe Solomon represents a evolution, and wider God if you like (or did Hannah already begin to take us there ??) Something to keep in mind...

chap 9 - I'm thinking the point is a little folk-tale exaggeration to bash Naphtali a little...

I have finished 1 Kings with notes...but haven't found time to post yet.

Some opening thoughts...

1. on : Now the rest of the acts of ...are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah/Israel

I know there some practical importance here. For example, it gives the text added authority and it forgives the text for not being complete. This is just one targeted take. But, that tone, it's quite snarky, no? Maybe an artifact of translation. Is there some sarcasm? Maybe the author wasn't so crazy about those chronicles for some reason or other?

2. Reading this with Israel Finkelstein in mind, everything about these kings becomes propaganda. Loyalty to YHWH is just a way of saying whether the authors liked you or not. The Judah kings that didn't do so well, they were simply not faithful to the LORD. And those that seemed to be better, they were faithful...and the fact that really weren't, since they didn't take down all the other religious stuff, oh, yeah, it's just a foot note. While in Israel it's practically the opposite. They are all bad, but the more successful they were, the worse they were...Omri and Ahab get the shaft. There was no one quite like Ahab that text says (not quoting). But, maybe the fact that Jehoshaphat was really a vassal to Ahab gets a little covered over.

out of time...

Regarding the book of the chronicles, I was wondering whether those are the same Chronicles that immediately follow Kings?

And in re this:

Loyalty to YHWH is just a way of saying whether the authors liked you or not. The Judah kings that didn't do so well, they were simply not faithful to the LORD.

it's also a chicken and egg thing, right? Would the authors have liked anyone who wasn't faithful to the LORD? Or can we read that as a bit metaphorical, somewhere indeterminate on a sliding scale between "he was pious" and "he was a good administrator/warrior/speechmaker/whatever"? With someone like Hezekiah, it seems like he may have gotten good king credit just because he was pious, but someone like Solomon, to the (limited, complicated) degree that he gets the "good in the eyes of the LORD" treatment, it's certainly because he was a good king and not a pious one (and because of David, which means for religious reasons but also dynastic and statebuilding ones--it's not easy to generalize). But certainly, yeah, that only seems to apply to the Judaean kings, whereas in Israel the better job you did the less godly you get remembered as being. Which is interesting considering the kingdoms certainly weren't always at war and did team up to a certain extent to fight the Syrians, right?

#37 Martin - to the first question - I need to check, but memory tells me that (1) 1 & 2 chronicles are completely different, (2) 1 & 2 Chronicles are much younger, and that basically (3) 1 & 2 chronicles is an attempt to rewrite the history in doctored form... In any case, these chronicles referred to in the text are lost. They were likely the official records kept by these kingdoms and lost during the various wars and exile.

#37 Martin - second part - for most of these kings, their "faithfulness" is really a sign of how they best fit in the Judah-centralized history. That is, Kings of Israel were OK, just a little too successful for Judah's tastes (since Judah kings were vassals!). Hezekiah really was faithful - probably the first king to be so. So, his history is doctored differently - he's made to look better than he was. His religion may have motivated him to provoke an invasion. So, he should be appreciated as a massive failure. For the result, see post #2 above.

The chicken and egg is merely a result of the success of the propaganda....

>29 dchaikin: got it, thanks:)

Hoping my brain isn't (further?) dulling with Finkelstein-obsession...maybe it is. Anxious to post on the rest of 1 Kings, but can't get time here...

1 Kings, Chapter 12 - Secession

The Shechem sequence, Rehoboam's finest hour. He plays the part of the little squirt who rejects the elders sage advise, while listen to his friends who advise him to speak like a cocky frat jock. These lines must be quoted. He's advised to say, "My little finger is thicker than my father's loins" (lame NRSV translation, IMHO). He actually does say, "My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add to your yoke; my father disciplined you with whips, but I will discipline you with scorpions" (again, the translation sucks the life out of this stuff, but I think the point gets across). In any case, Rehoboam losses ten tribes, as foretold, sees his taskmaster stoned, and flees with his army back to Judah. And so ends the great kingdom of the Israelites. "We have no inheritance in the son of Jesse....

Jeroboam is credited with putting golden calves in Bethel and Dan, at his northern and southern boundaries, apparently severing the connection with Jerusalem's temple...which was still archeologically in the boondocks...anyway, he was very bad...

Shemaiah's has an oracle

(chapters 13-22 coming in course of the next few days.)

"My little finger is thicker than my father's loins" was so lame. Like, you gotta hold up your little finger, or hide it, and either way the boast loses all its force.

Hey, looks like I'm ahead for once! I'm at chapter 22. War, vengeance and extermination, and manifestations of the LORD. But I guess I'll wait a bit before commenting on that.

"My little finger is thicker than my father's loins" . Came across this story only yesterday reading The Meaning of the Bible by Knight and Amy-Jill Levine. They say Rehoboam follows the advice omitting this bit of sexual innuendo so I assume it was meant to be a reference to small size of his father's penis. They add that the scorpions is probably a reference to lashes with metal tips.

...and implying a (wished-for?) extra-large size of his own. It's not clear what size chariot either rode in.

Well yeah, I guess that's what I meant--the implication loses whatever force it possessed when he's like "my implied loins are larger than my father's, which in turn are smaller than my little finger!" I guess I'm treating it too much like math. It is interesting, though--probably we've read that the Greeks considered large penises aesthetically unfortunate, but then there are also the Norse, who were allegedly obsessed with their man-power. But I had the idea that fixaton was atypical and we'd perhaps inherited it as a European, barbarian-invaders legacy. I guess it's in the Bible too!

That's a very interesting link although I didn't quite follow the logic of paragraph 3.

I think it's a bit of overstretch to call it a "one-gender" system, but I guess the implication is that there is one gender defined by its physical and sexual ccharacteristics and role and that everyone else is defined negatively by not being part of that gender, making it more logical to conceive of them as lacking the one active or positive "male" gender role than as members of a second "unmale" gender?

Also reminds me of this. Warning: this one is fine, but the comic as a whole is filled with much NSFW-ness.

Finished 1 King. Since I'm ahead (brag brag), I finally started The Oxford History of the Biblical World. Very good so far.

Hm, touchstones have taken a day off it seems.

Very cool Flo. I haven't started 2 Kings yet. In an ideal world I will be free at lunch today and post somethings on chapters 13-22...

In the mean time, a interesting little chart.

(in the Israel Finkelstein concept - Josiah would be the peak of the "Spiritual State" graph, followed closely by Hezekiah. David and Solomon's spiritual states would be merely mythological)

Thanks, this graph has a lot of information. I have to admit I find it a bit difficult to follow who reigns when and does what, and I would never have picked up the signals about the spiritual state.

What I find intriguing is the little anecdotes about the kings, like the one who was sick in his feet. I wonder how these anecdotes got to be picked for inclusion in the book. Maybe they are the one popular tradition transmitted?

#53 There are so many odd bits of trivia, too many to include in my notes. I suspect they are all saying something important in someway, but it's never very clear.

Here's one that baffles and worries me: 1 King 16:34

> In his (Ahab's) days did Hiel the Bethelite build Jericho: he laid the foundation thereof in
> Abiram his firstborn, and set up the gates thereof in his youngest son Segub, according to
> the word of the Lord, which he spake by Joshua the son of Nun.

How do you lay the foundation of a city IN a child? Segond is even more worrying since his translation says that the children are the PRICE for laying the foundation. What the...?

I have notes on that, and it's confusing reading it without my notes. It fulfills a prophecy from Joshua and I think it means that in rebuilding Jericho, Hiel had to lose his first and second born. Not clear if it's meant as sacrifices, or if Hiel wasn't aware and lost his children without knowing the cause.

I've been finding the Biblos site quite helpful.

Here is the link for the above passage
http://bible.cc/1_kings/16-34.htm

It has 8 or 9 different Bible translations, followed by the a similar number of commentaries. Plus the modern Hebrew or the original, maps, cross references, translation into quite a few other languages .......

57> Ah, thank you for that link, it explains it. The reference is to Joshua's curse in Joshua 6:26

> Cursed be the man before the Lord that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho; he shall lay
> the foundation thereof in his first-born; and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it.

1 Kings 13-16 - are they not written in the Book of the Annals of the Kings of Israel/Judah

Chapter 13 - A-man-of-God stories

The 1st man of God condemns Jeroboam by ... predicting Josiah. Wow specific. It "predicts" Josiah's historical taking of Bethel and savaging of Bethel's religious stuff in 620 bce. ("he shall sacrifice on you the priests of the high places who offer incense to you"). Wonder when that was written? This guy also does the hand wittering/healing stuff

Then a man of God is part of a story with the old prophet in Bethel. Same man, different one? Doesn't say. Anyway, strange story. Moral seems to be don't eat with an Israelite, no matter how nice he is talk to...or maybe not. Notice the oak tree.

Chapter 14 - Jeroboam & Rehoboam's stories and continual war.

Jeroboam - ruled Israel 922-901 bce
---sons are Abijah & Nabad - those are the priests who burn up in Numbers 3:2-4 (wonder when Numbers 3:2-4 was written?)
---prophet Ahijah - he condemns Jeroboam's first son Abijah and then predicts the fall of the Kingdom of Israel

Rehoboam - ruled Judah 922-915 bce
---Egyptian Pharaoh Shishak sacks Jerusalem - which is likely true history. "he took everything"
---Not surprisingly, he wasn't a good guy, but the male prostitutes are still a nice touch. No comment on the size of their little fingers.

Chapter 15 - various kings

Abijam - ruled Judah 915-913 bce
--- wars with Israel.

Asa - ruled Judah 913-873 bce
--- true to the LORD...finally a mensch. Gets Aram's help against Israel. Aram takes a lot of territory from Basha.

Nabab - ruled Israel 901-900 bce
--- so bad he is killed by Basha, his own commander(?). End of Jeroboam line

Basha - ruled Israel 900-877 bce
--- wipes out Jeroboam line, and loses a lot of territory to Aram

Note about this war: Israel wins this war, if it ever happened, hands down. By Ahab's time, Judah under Jehoshaphat is clearly a vassal state. So, what's with the Aram treaty? Was it real? Are the authors trying to take credit for Arams success at this time? Anyway, Omri will beat Aram back later on...

Chapter 16 - The Omrides

The prophet Jehu condemns the line of Basha

Elah - ruled Israel 877-876 bce

Zimri - ruled Israel for seven days in 876 bce
--- commander of 1/2 the chariots wipes out the Basha line. Alas, he was not Basha, and Omri forces him to commit suicide.

Omri - ruled Israel 876-869 bce
--- Third commander to take over, showing the army is stronger than half the chariots. Begin the golden age.
---note that the capital moves to Samaria

Tibni - two years against Omri in Israel.
---Clearly Omri did not take over a healthy kingdom

Ahab - ruled Israel 869-850 bce
--- the bad boy. He "did more evil in the sight of the LORD than all who were before him."
--- here we meet Jezebel, the Sidonian who brings Baal worship into Israel. Sidonians are Phoenician.

Note about Omrides : We are safely in historical times now. The Assyrians called Israel the "Land of Omri". There is also a stone in Moab that mentions him. Why? Because this is the golden age of Israel, the real one, when Israel controlled a mini-empire that extended from Aram into Moab and Edom and fully controlled Judah. These kings were successful, wealthy and influential.

This chapter ends with Hiel rebuilding Jericho, and his oldest and youngest sons suffering the consequences. As discussed above, this kind of random insert fulfills the curse in Joshua 6:26/

Elijah will have to wait, I need to stop there.

About Ahab, it's not really clear why he's worse than the rest. Well, his wife apparently conducted a slaughter of Israelite prophets, so I guess that's reason enough. But the way the story is told, it feels like his worst sin that sets him apart was to marry a non-Israelite.

And then a bunch of priests of Baal and Astarte get massacred as a revenge for the prophets. Nice.

He was too successful...says my one-track mind.

I'm enjoying the pause in Kings while reading The Oxford History of the Biblical World. Very useful in linking the Bible to it historical context. I'm enjoying this book.

My notes and book are collecting dust. Sorry, falling behind and reading other things instead. The Oxford History sounds fantastic.

I just went to add The Oxford History of the Biblical World to my wishlist through get-this-book. I had to dig to find that it is available as a paperback. Oxford also has The Oxford Handbook of Jewish Daily Life in Roman Palestine apparently still only in hardcover and pretty pricey.

Robert

I sure hope there's no deadline for this . . . I have a pretty big essay I need to work on, on Buddhism and Ecclesiastes. So while I'll have a lot of intelligent things to say about a book we won't get to for a while, I have no time to focus on the books being read here.

#66 The thread won't get erased. :) I think you have time to keep up, at least with me. I'm about to start Our Mutual Friend for the group read , and might wait till after we finish before I get back here.

Well I've been reading Kings and the Oxford History in parallel, and now I just finished Kings. After Kings comes Chronicles, which if I understand correctly cover largely the same historical period but were written even longer after the facts and are mostly an ideological interpretation of the facts. As if Kings wasn't already ideological enough.

I am still very much enjoying reading the biblical text along with its current (although the Oxford book is some 10 or 20 years old, it would seem) historical interpretation, and how different texts, biblical or extra-biblical, can be confronted with archaeological data to build a hypothetical reconstruction of actual events.

From what I gather, while Kings and Chronicles give us the "official" version of history, the prophets offer a different view with their social criticism. Although some of the prophets were royal advisors too, especially Isaiah I believe.

So, Kings ends on a father depressing note after Judah, who had managed to survive as a vassal to Assyria while Samaria was annihilated as a nation, falls to Babylon. The whole elite of the country is deported and only the poor people remain. But it looks like there were enough of them that Hebraic culture survived and assimilated the foreign population that was imported. Unlike Samaria who virtually disappeared (which I guess explains why Biblical texts are so heavily biased in favor of Judah). But that may be an oversimplification on my part.

Anyway, getting ready now to tackle Chronicles, and about halfway through the Oxford History.

Time to start Chronicles? Awesome! Merry Christmas!

I just finished the Dickens, so hopefully I'll be back here soon. I stopped after finishing 1 Kings.

Flo - my rabbi tells me that Kings is the Judah version and Chronicles is the Norther tribes of Israel version. Of course, he was waving his hands...and it seems he hasn't read Israel Finkelstein...

70: Dan, I think your rabbi is wrong. I just read the Wikipedia article on Chronicles, and though it seems that the book itself will probably be rather boring, its story is fascinating. Apparently it was written by a single person, who was probably a Levite from Jerusalem.

Just near the end of II Chronicles and it seems to concentrate mainly on the Judean perspective. And stressing the connection of the "good" kings to the line of David (I'm at the end of Ch31 with Hezekiah)

Maybe we need a new thread for Chronicles? What say thee, O fearless leader?

Go for it. Please put "Alter" in the thread name somewhere, so we can find it. I usually try to avoid anything obviously biblical in the thread names.

Ahhhh, clever.

Okay, here we go: http://www.librarything.com/topic/146697

Flo - back at #71 - My Rabbi's first degree was in literature, and his specialty is biblical poetry...I think it's fair to say it's not the only time he is wrong about the archeological side. I'll trust wiki first. (However we read Jacob's "blessing", at the end of Genesis, together a few weeks ago, and he had fascinating points about the language and the play within the language.)

1 Kings 17-22 - The story of Ahab and Elijah, and part of Jezebel.

I had to figure out where I was, and then I had to go back and re-read chapters 17-22 (which went fast, as I wasn't taking notes this time)

Chapter 17 - Elijah's miracles

We meet Elijah as apparently a settler in Gilead from Tishbe. Are his origins supposed to be uncertain?? Anyway, he pronounces the drought, hides in wadi, where he saved by a raven. Then his own wadi dries up! So, he wanders until the widow of Zarepath is convinced to save him, and given the bottomless jar/jug of meal/oil. Doesn't help the widow's son, who dies...but Elijah resurrects him. Good guy...but actually the Lord did all the magicy stuff.

Chapter 18 - Elijah outdoes the Baal/Asherah priest/prophets

Opens with Obadiah - who three times asks Elijah not to kill him by using him as a messenger to Ahab.

Too many good lines here to quote them all. And we must wonder what that "water" Elijah has his wood doused with really was...and we might also wonder how long it took to build that elaborate altar. But anyway, the self-abusing priests lose and all 850 get slaughtered, Ahab races back to Jezreel to beat the rains, but doesn't beat Elijah. It was a 17 mile trek.

Chapter 19 - Elisha follows Elijah, who bolts Jezreel.

It's Jezebel that makes Elijah bolt Jezreel, not the generally submissive Ahab. To Beer Sheba and then the solitary broom tree, finally Elijah has his Moses moment with a 40 day trek to Mt. Horeb where he appears to talk to two different Lords. The first is in a cave and tells him to go outside as the Lord is about to pass by. The second one follows wind, an earthquake, fire and silence, and then...announces successors to Elijah. Ok. But, well, it's clear how that works out. His own successor will be Elisha.

It's an odd bit with Elisha hesitating and then wiping out his parents'(?) dozen oxen. Is it that Elisha needs a decisive break from his roots, or is it that he must come to terms with a future of trials quite unlike his comfy life till then?

More tonight, I hope.

Chapter 20 - three prophets and Ahab's battles against Ben-hadad of Aram.

The scribes saw Ahab as the underdog victor, twice, but still give all credit to the prophets.

In Samaria Ahab caves without a fight, then later the elders and prophet 1 give him some backbone and there is route. Prophet 1 knows B-h will return.

B-h then fights in the plains, where Israelite are (more?) vulnerable. Prophet 2 ("a man of God") predicts victory, and Ahab gets another route. But when Ben-hadad asks for mercy in a sackcloth, Ahab gives him a treaty.

Prophet 3 - the one who has someone eaten by a lion because the won't strike him, gives Ahab a parable predicting his fall because of his mercy on Ben-hadad.

Seems transparent. Ahab kicked some A$$ and left Aram subservient. But, this doesn't work since he's the bad guy. So our authors take any credit away from him.

many many lines:
Ahab "I am yours and all that I have"
Ahab "...but this thing I cannot do"
Ahab "One who puts on armor should not brag like one who takes it off"
servant "Their gods are gods of the hills; therefore they were stronger than we. But let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they." - this might be an accurate summary of the Israelite reputation...one which Omri and Ahab broke by conquering other territories.

Chapter 21 Naboth's vineyard

This may be the myth for how Ahab took the Jezreel valley for himself. When Naboth refuses to sell his vineyard to Ahab, the king sulks...his wife, Jezebel sets Naboth up to be executed by a (silly?) trick. It's this that brings on Ahab's curse, from Elijah. But...Ahab does the sackcloth thing and curse gets postponed...to his children.

OK, first of all, Ahab's success drove these author's insane, and they again are covering it up with this delayed curse. But, notice that this curse is really Jezebel's fault. Taken on its word, Ahab was kind of nice and respectful, it was Jezebel that used the David & Uriah trick. Then Ahab even tries for forgiveness. It's always those darn women.

Elijah's lines:
"In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine."
"The dogs shall eat Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel."

Chapter 22 back to historical chronicles - Ahab final failure

Ahab attacks Aram, and, as a trick, has Jehoshaphat dress as the real king. Remember, if the king dies, the battle is lost, so this trick makes sense...but back fires when Ahab takes an arrow and eventually dies after a lot bleeding; and the dogs do indeed lick up his blood.

Jehoshaphat, the king of Judah, comes away looking pretty good here, and even removes the male prostitutes, such a mensch. But it's very clear he is the vassal, and that the Kingdom of Israel is the real power.

Jehoshaphat - ruled Judah 873-849 bce

Ahaziah, Ahab's successor, ruled Israel 850-849 bce, following the evil Baal.

Glad to see you come back to the Good Book, Dan!

Oxford agrees with you that Ahab's reign was rather a prosperous and successful one, but obviously that can't be true for the official historians, since he was worshipping, or tolerating the worship of Baal...

official Judahist, er Jewish historians. : )

Is Sam around? Any Melville-inspired thoughts on 78/79?

The Eliah character wandering around the Pequod announces disaster upon captain Ahab.
He begs Ishmael and Queequeg not to board the ship

I should really try to read Moby Dick. Again.

And also that book by Alter about the King James Bible.

Happy 2013 all! Moby Dick is possibly my favourite novel, however I am seeing a play based on (possibly) my second favourite novel, The Master & Margarita, tonight. It's on at the Barbican in London and has received mixed reviews. Still, I think I might enjoy seeing Behemoth toting a Browning on stage.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=master+and+margarita&start=118&um=1&amp...

2 Kings 1-3

Chapter 1 - Where Elijah is described as "A hairy man, with a leather belt around his waist."

The story of Ahaziah's fall through a lattice, and the messengers sent to Baal-zebub who are intercepted by Elijah who gets to condemn Ahaziah death, who sends three men of fifty after Elijah. Eventually Ahaziah dies and is succeeded by Jehoram.

Jehoram - ruled Israel 849-843/2.
Do not confuse with the other Jehoram, who ruled Judah over the exact same dates...although the text is inconsistent with the dates

References:
- the story parallels Jeroboam and Ahijah in 1 Kings 14
- The three parties of 50 men who come to get Elijah parallels Saul's efforts to get David in Naioth, when he finally ends up in ecstasy. 1 Sam 19
- Baal-zebub means "Lord of the Flies", which I don't have reread because I haven't read it yet. This guy becomes Beelzebul, prince of the demons in the NT...so Beetlejuice.

Chapter 2 - Elijah's whirlwind to heaven and she-bear overkill.

It didn't occur to me to make any special not of Elijah's whirlwind to heaven, as I was more worried about whether Elisha would get his double share of spirit. (Does he? I didn't think so, but it wasn't clear.) Anyway, from the notes it's a big deal. Elijah doesn't die. Later in the OT his return is expected as a Messiah. This must lead to why I leave the cup out for him during passover.

Parallels of Elijah with Moses are emphasized.

Elisha shows he is Elijah's successor by cleaning the waters of Jericho - another Moses parallel, see the waters of Mariah in Exodus 15.

Then the story gets weird. Elisha revenges himself on 42 boys in Bethel who say, "Go away, baldhead"...by having them mauled by a she-bear. Surely a low, even for the bible.

Chapter 3 - battle of Jehoram & Johashapat with King Mesha of Maob.

The weirdest part is not Elisha helping a king, or the bit with the water red as blood, but that King Mesha sacrifices his own first born son...and it works!

On Moby, before Elijah appears, Bildad lectures Queequeg on giving up his pagan ways: "Spurn the idol Bel..."

I think much of this story plays itself out in Moby Dick, but with Melville perhaps a bit more sympathetic to the pagans that the Biblical author...

Great write ups here!

It's been interesting rereading the Solomon, misc. Kings and Ahab stories again in the context of thinking about Moby Dick. Kings is really the story of the fall of the house of David, a fall that begins with Solomon's turn from God to focus on worldly wisdom and foreign women, that really hits bottom with Ahab, leading God to turn on him and condemn his whole line. The Biblical Ahab is equivocal though, and tries to humble and redeem himself, but ultimately fails. The Melvillian Ahab doesn't bother with the humbling or search for redemption - it's a recasting of this story, among others, with Ahab in a more equal role in the battle. So while Kings is the story of a fall, Moby Dick is more the story of a battle - is it anticipatory to a fall? Should there be an Elijah sequel to the Ahab story?

Sam, you have me thinking now. What is the God-like Moby Dick to Ahab? If he managed to get his whale, what next?

2 Kings 4-6 Elisha's adventures

Chapter 4 - Elisha's miracles

- indebted widow gets the oil
- Shunamite woman, part 1. In return for a room and some faith in him, Elisha gives this woman an annunciation, and then, when the poor boy dies, Elisha brings him back to life. More coming (Ch 8?)
- saved a stew pot of food poisoned by the bad gourds
- small amount of food feeds a 100

These miracles have Elijah parallels. And note the Elisha doesn't usually speak directly to anyone, he speaks through his servant Gehazi (I picture him mumbling to himself in the corner)

interesting line: ‘Say to her, Since you have taken all this trouble for us, what may be done for you? Would you have a word spoken on your behalf to the king or to the commander of the army?’ She answered, ‘I live among my own people.’

Chapter 5 - Naaman's conversation

He's the Aramean commander who Elisha cleanses of "leprosy", then allows him to hide his conversion by joining his king in service to the god Rimmon ("thunderer"). Oddities include Gehazi's attempt to get money from Naaman, Naaman's taking of Israelite earth with him back to Aram.

From unnamed Israelite king who apparently doesn't follow Elisha: Am I God, to give death or life, that this man sends word to me to cure a man of his leprosy?

Chapter 6 - more Elisha miracles and the beginning of the Aramean siege of Samaria

What's most interesting in this is the descriptions of the desperation while under siege, with famine, cannibalism, and price gouging. But first Elisha has his axe miracle, foils an Aramean ambush and then saves himself from siege with his horses and chariots of fire.

notes:
- Chariots of Fire - Here and also in Elijah's whirlwind bit.
- Aram wars: 1 k 20; 1 k 22, & here (2 k 6)
- The king predicts the method that ends the siege: ‘No! Let the Lord help you. How can I help you?...'

2 Kings 7-9 battles and Jehu's sucession

Chapter 7 - End of the Aramean siege of Samaria

Elisha tells the captain ‘You shall see it with your own eyes, but you shall not eat from it.’ , it being the cheap food. Once the Arameans flee, leaving behind all their food, and prices go back to normal, the captain gets trampled to death, fulfilling Elisha's prophecy.

Chapter 8 Shunamite woman part 2, Hazael & Jehoram's failure.

...out of time for now...

You know, the more you guys read the old testament the more it seems to be a lot like this series on Genghis Khan that I am reading with Chris. (We are on the last book of the series so far, which is mostly dealing with his grandson Kublai Khan)

Perhaps it's the bone-chilling sieges. What series are you reading, Anna?

The Iggulden series. It's kind of awful, but Chris loves it so we persevere.

90, chapter 5: Re taking the soil with him. Apparently (says my trusted Oxford history) there was a rule against worshiping Yahweh on foreign (non Israelite) soil. Which rule of course became a huge issue after the exile. They couldn't use Naaman's trick, it wouldn't be practical for so many people I guess.

#95 - Such great trivia in these books...

2 Kings 8-10

Chapter 8 - three story lines: Shunamite woman part 2, Hazael's succession in Aram & Jehoram's failure.

1. The Shunamite woman escaped a famine then returns and gets her land back, all care of Elisha, to whom she was devoted.

2A. Elisha tells Hazael to lie. That apparently has caused some controversy.
2B. But I was more moved by Elisha's tears as he on one-hand maneuvers Hazael to kill the current Ben-hadad and take the Aram crown, and then on the other hand prophecies all the suffering in Israel when Hazael begins to successfully invade
2C. But my being moved seems silly, since no Elisha ever foretold any such thing and this is just a story to help explain the next line of stories...

3. Jehoram of Judah gets the evil treatment and is blamed for the Edom revolt and Hazael's success against him.
A. And he marries an Omri...bad bad bad...that would be Athaliah, daughter of Ahab, and future ruler of Judah....
B. Ahaziah of Judah succeeds, briefly - 843/2

Chapter 9 - Jehu takes the Kingdom of Israel

My notes tell me the book is glorifying Jehu...

Anyway, Elisha sends a young prophet to anoint a Jehu, a military commander of some sort, as the next king of Israel. Prophecies are to wipe out the house of Ahab, and avenge Jezebel - "The dogs shall eat Jezebel in the territory of Jezreel, and no one shall bury her" - Jehu's men see this young prophet as a madman...but still believe his prophecy....

So Jehu does a trick and kills Jehoram, and, for no apparent reason, also Ahaziah of Judah.

But Jezebel gets the best scene. Doomed, she painted her eyes, and adorned her head, and looked out of the window. As Jehu entered the gate, she said, ‘Is it peace, Zimri, murderer of your master?’ . Surely we remember Zimri? He held the kingdom for seven days (see post #59). Jehu wins a timeless insult and has her tossed out a window. "So they threw her down; some of her blood spattered on the wall and on the horses, which trampled on her." And later the dogs did eat her and there was nothing left to bury other than " the skull and the feet and the palms of her hands."

Remember Elijah's commandments from god in 1k 19:15-16? They are now all fulfilled
- anoint Hazael over Aram
- anoint Jehu of Israel
- anoint Elisha your successor

Done. And Israel has a new, suitably prophecied, dynasty.

Chapter 10 - Jehu kills everybody

Did I mention that my notes tell me the book is glorifying Jehu...?

Jazreel
- Manipulated city elders into killing Ahab's 20 sons.
- ‘They have brought the heads of the king’s sons’, he said, ‘Lay them in two heaps at the entrance of the gate until the morning.’ (Anna, what did you say about Genghis Khan?) Jehu's is a reign of terror, it seems

Samaria
- Kills 42 relatives of Ahaziah (maybe he was thinking of taking Judah?) and then " he killed all who were left to Ahab in Samaria
- Picks up Jehonadab son of Rechab (of the Rechabites - notes below)

Baal worshipers
- holds a massive sacrifice for Baal, encouraging all worshipers to attend, wryly telling them "for I have a great sacrifice to offer to Baal" He then slaughters them, destroys the "pillar of Baal" and converts the ruined temple into a latrine. (isn't this great stuff?)

My notes tell me that the word used for "sacrifice" can also mean "slaughter". But I think Jehu's word trick works regardless.

But Jehu was still somewhat evil because he kept the golden calves in Dan and Bethel - Jeroboam's main crime.
And he was weak. Hazael kicked his rear, taking all territory east of the Jordan.

Jehu of Israel - 843/2 - 815
Rechabites - nazarite like religious fanatics. The avoided anything Canaanite-ish - including cultivated land, vinyards and the building of houses.

Think that's all for today.

It's so funny for Jehu to do all that killing for the LORD and then still keep the golden calves. Was he hedging his bets? Or do you get the feeling that he was just a psychopath anointed by Elisha, and not particularly religion driven at all?

Hey Martini!

Well...I think he was desperately trying to maintain power of a declining kingdom. The religious stuff is a later assertion, but it's possible he was anti-Baal. The bond with Judah is mysterious. Maybe they just like that he wiped out the Ahab line (except for Athaliah...oops)

2 Kings 11-13

Chapter 11 - Athaliah & Jehoash's succession and blood everywhere in Judah

- With Ahaziah and his 42 family members gone, mom (Athaliah) takes power in Judah, the first woman ruler. She has never been forgiven. (Remember, she is Ahab's line, with all the Baal worship implications and Jezebel connections.)

- Ruling with a motherly touch, she first tries to wipe out all of Ahaziah's line...um, her own grandchildren, I believe.

- Jehosheba, Jehoram's daughter and Ahaziah's sister hides Jehoash (also Joash...of Judah, there will be one of these of Israel later). She is helped by Jehoiada "captain of the Carites"

- OK, this is good. Jehoiada wants to supposedly do the right thing and have Jehoash proclaimed King. So, he sets up a super-elaborate security ring, and inside the ring has seven-year-old Jehoash proclaimed king. When Athaliah finally shows up, she is captured, carried into the palace through the "horses’ entrance" and then quietly killed.

- And Baal worship is wiped out in Jerusalem (but there are other issues) and a head priest killed.

Wait, there are notes:
1. This is the first extensive story about Judah in 2 Kings
2. Jehosheba and Jehoiada are husband and wife in 2 Chronicles 22:11
A. So...yes, Jehoiada wants to be regent...
B. But...what if...Jehoash was their child.
3. Carites - this is maybe the same royal guard as David's Cherethites
4. "Jehoiada made a covenant between the Lord and the king and people"

Athaliah of Judah - 843/2 - 837
Jehoash of Judah - 837 - 800

Chapter 12 - Jehoash's long and uneventful reign

- He gets credit for temple repairs
- Then he buys off Hazael (Jerusalem is saved by bribes three times: 1 Kings 15:18, here & 2 Kings 18:15)
- Then, with no explanation, he's killed by his servants (2 Chron 24 says Jehoash was killed in revenge for killing Jehoiada's son...I suspect some people were unhappy with the taxes. Buying off Hazael wasn't cheap.)

Chapter 13 - Back to Israel - Jehoahaz & Jehoash, and the death of Elisha

Jehoahaz of Israel - 815 - 802
- son of Jehu
- defeated by Hazael of Aram, and was left with practically no army
- A savior preserves the Kingdom of Israel. He isn't named.

Jehoash of Israel - 802 - 786
- battles....Judah, against Amaziah
- Later defeats Hazael's successor...another Ben-hadad.

Death of Elisha
- Elisha spends his deathbed time guiding and berating Jehoash (of Israel)
- Jehoash as Elisha's side says "My father, my father! The chariots of Israel and its horsemen! - so we know Elisha gets his chariots of fire too, but not a whirlwind.
- Elisha was a prophet for about 50 years

extra note:
"Now King Hazael of Aram oppressed Israel all the days of Jehoahaz. But the Lord was gracious to them and had compassion on them; he turned towards them, because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not destroy them; nor has he banished them from his presence until now." - This is the only time the covenant with the three patriarchs is mentioned in Kings

100/Chapter 13:
According to Oxford, the savior is Adad-nirari, the new ruler of Assyria, who defeated Hazael's son Ben-hadad. And collected tribute from Israel, or so he claims in one of his commemorative stelae.

I just came back from a short vacation in Berlin, and I saw stelae like this in the Pergamon museum, some bearing names of protagonists from the Bible.

#101 - Makes perfect sense since Assyria begins to beat up on Aram (Syria) about this time.

2 Kings 14

Chapter 14 - Amaziah of Judah foolishly confronts Israel, and then Jeroboam II of Israel

Amaziah of Judah 800 - 783 bce.
- cleans our Jehoash's assassins
- attacks and massacres Edomites

Then he decides to take on Jehoash of Israel with the words, "Come, let us look one another in the face."
- Big mistake. Judah is not strong enough to challenge the weakened Israel
- Jehoash: A thornbush on Lebanon sent to a cedar on Lebanon, saying, “Give your daughter to my son for a wife”; but a wild animal of Lebanon passed by and trampled down the thornbush.
- Then Jehoash defeats Amaziah and loots Jerusalem.

Over fifiteen years later he is chased out of Jerusalem and killed in Lachish. He is succeeded by Azariah who re-built Judah up a bit. He'll be covered in the next chapter

Jeroboam II of Israel - 786 - 746 bce

Not much text, but he comes out pretty good. A successful and powerful king.
- Saves Israel
- Recovers territory from Aram...because Aram is falling to Assyria!
- Jonah gets mentioned here...from the Book of Jonah. Might keep this timing in mind for then.

2 Kings 15 - 17 The fall of the Kingdom of Israel

Chapter 15 A mess of rulers in Israel, and bits on Judah

Judah first
Azariah of Judah 783 - 742
The book first tells that Azariah took the throne at age 16, then that he was Leprous so his son Jothan actually ran the government...Anyway, 41 years of rule, a lot could have happened.
Jotham of Judah 742 - 735
Attacked by Israel, apparently to force him to fight Assyria (didn't work). Succeeded by Ahaz.

Israel
Zechariah of Israel 746 -745, killed by Shallum, ending the Jehu line
Shallum of Israel - ruled a month in 745, killed by Menahem
Mehaham of Israel - ruled 745-737
- From Tirzah, which was the original capital of Israel, under Jeroboam I
- described his the sack Tiphsah: "He ripped open all the pregnant women in it". Nice guy.
- buys off "King Pul of Assyria" which is actually Tilgrath-pileser III (745-727)
Pekahiah of Israel 737 - 736 - continues Mehaham's line, briefly.
Pekah of Israel 736-732
- the book says he ruled 20 years, the notes say 736-732...
- He was Pekahiah's captain, he kills his king with takes over and runs Israel as Assyria begins to take over it's territory.
- Hoshea's has him killed and takes over for the grand finale (in chapter 17). The notes say Assyria helped Hoshea.

Chapter 16 Ahaz's sacrilegious peace with Assyria.

Even though Israel is on the brink, we first get a whole chapter on Ahaz's rule in Judah

Ahaz of Judah 735 - 715

Don't listen to these authors. Ahaz was a great king and saved Judah by accepting vassalage to Assyria. Judah has never forgiven him.

His crimes:
--- he was like the Kings of Israel
--- "He even made his son pass through fire, according to the abominable practices of the nations whom the Lord drove out before the people of Israel." - which may mean he sacrificed his first born to Molech!
--- Personally sacrificed at the high places, hills and under trees - he is the first king since Solomon to personally lead a sacrifice.

His story:
- King Rezin of Aram and King Pekah of Israel besiege Ahaz - but he breaks the siege
- Edom rises again, take Elath
- Pleads for help from Assyria
- Assyria takes Damascus, and kills King Rezin (good bye Aram)
- Has the altar of Damascus copied and built in Jerusalem, and personally dedicates it.
- did some serious stripping of the temple. Notes say he used this to bribe Assyria's help.
- for more see Isaiah 7-9

Chapter 17 The end of Israel

Hoshea of Israel 732-724
- a vasal to Shalmaneser V of Assyria (727-722).
- Tries to send for Egyptian help, breaking his vassalage and ending his kingdom

NOTE: The first clashes of Assyria and Egypt, this is big history

Samaria is under siege 724-721, during which time Shalmaneser dies. So, Israel falls to Sargon II (ruled 722-705)

Israel is scattered, Samaria is populated with immigrants. "The cities of Samaria do not know the law of the god of the land", so they are attacked by lions. To stop this this the high priest of Israel is kept so he can serve Baal and the gold calves in Bethel...wait, I mean The LORD. Sorry, I got caught up in that long list of sins.

"...none was left but the tribe of Judah alone. Judah also did not keep the commandments of the Lord their God but walked in the customs that Israel had introduced."

And now a moment of silence.

By "mess of rulers", I trust you mean that in both senses of the word "mess".

as in multitudes of, or psychologically a, or for their subjects a, or that the bloody of them make a...etc. etc.

Do you really think that passing his son through fire could refer to a sacrifice? Thats seems rather unbelievable to me. I took it as a kind of rite that male children went through.

Did I mention how much I enjoy reading your notes? Thank you, you always see things I hadn't noticed.

Thanks! Regarding Ahaz and child sacrifice, it makes sense to me, but it wasn't my observation. It came from the notes in my copy of The HarperCollins Study Bible. Actually most of the extra aside detail information I'm posting on Kings comes from that book.

My overall take—that this is largely a work of propaganda by a ruling class in a smaller state about a fallen but once more powerful neighboring state—comes from The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein & Neil Asher Silberman. Finkelstein & Silberman think the main writing/re-writing began under Hezekiah - that's just after Israel fell, just after Chapter 17 here. Hezekiah comes next.

Thanks for the info Dan. I take it you are happy with the Harper Collins Study Bible? I have recently started using an iPad app called Olive Tree to read different versions of the Bible. The Harper Collins study Bible is available as an add-on for $25. It sounds like it might be worth the money.

Well, it's not ideal. What I like is that the notes are thorough, scholarly and non-religious in approach. What I don't like is that they are so formal that it's a bit dry to work through. There is no character to these notes. And, of course, they are all about the facts, not the language and literary aspects. Alter is 1000 times better, even if he is less thorough.

I just bought the Harper Collins notes and I'm glad I did. As you said they are a bit dry, but they are also merciless in pointing out cross-references and discrepancies. This is important because Chronicles, which I am reading now, are basically a retelling of the same events already covered in Kings, only with a much stronger ideological bias. So the text itself is not very exciting, but it's fascinating to compare the different versions of the same events and their differences and try to see through the writers' motives.

And I'm very happy with the Olive Tree app too. It has a split screen so that I can see two different translations, or the text and the notes, side by side. And the HC notes have hyperlinks for the numerous cross-references, so that I can navigate back and forth between Samuel, Kings, Chronicles and the prophets.

Alter's literary comments are sorely missed though.

I also looked up Moloch and found some interesting references. There is a lot of debate on the meaning of the word Moloch and whether it describes a God or something else, but there does seem to be evidence of child sacrifices, at least in the Phoenician colony of Carthage in Tunisia. This site has a seemingly thorough examination of the question: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0014_0_14098.html

To me, the phrase "pass his son through fire" doesn't sound like it would kill the child. But apparently many scholars do interpret the phrase as a reference to child sacrifice. In any case, it is clearly considered one of the main "abominations of the heathen, whom the Lord cast out from before the children of Israel".

I have Alter's Ancient Israel, which includes Samuel, Kings, Joshua and Judges, on order for delivery when published in 2013. We'll have all of Kings then. Then I have to reread this whole thread again.

So Harper Collins, too? Hmm. OK.

Oh...! I'll have to look that up tonight.

Alter on the Song on Deborah might be worth the cost by itself...

Will be released in the US on April 1.

2 Kings 18 - 20 Hezekiah

Chapter 18 Hezekiah part 1

Hezekiah of Judah - 715-686/7

Possibly the first real YHWH cultic king of Judah, or at least the first be be exclusively YHWH. Or maybe we just over-interpret the propaganda.

Basic history is that Hezekiah rebelled against Assyria, undoing Ahaz's peace and leading to an invasion. Most of Judah is invaded and destroyed. This is the time when Lachish becomes post #2 above. Yet Jerusalem, while besieged, holds out breaks the siege. The secret tunnel to the spring, which still exists today, may have been a key part of Jerusalem's ability to withstand the siege. Ok, our hero...as longs as you're not from Lachish...or really anywhere else. Assyria did massive destruction.

Hezekiah's tunnel (although it's construction may predate him):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezekiah%27s_Tunnel




Our story begins by heaping huge praise on Hezekiah for following the Mosaic laws and destroying all non-YHWH religious stuff. (He broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made, for until those days the people of Israel had made offerings to it; it was called Nehushtan.)

Then he attacks Gaza...and then rebellion begins...
-4th year - Assyrian siege of Samaria begins
-6th year - Samaria falls
-14th year - (701 bce)
--- Sennacharib attacks Judah (see also 2 Chronicles 32 & Isaiah 36-37).
--- Bribe offered at Lachish (or, alternately, see post #2)
--- Siege of Jerusalem
--- Negotiations with the Rabshakeh (leader of Assyrian kings court). The Rabshakeh mocks Jerusalem, points out the Egypt can't help and claims The Lord won't help. When asked to speak another language so the common people can't understand, he says, "Has my master sent me to speak these words to your master and to you, and not to the people sitting on the wall, who are doomed with you to eat their own dung and to drink their own urine?" The bible records no Israelite response...

Chapter 19 Hezekiah part 2

Hezekiah's dedication to The Lord...seems like two versions of the story:

Version 1: Hezekiah sees the end. He does the sack clothe thing and sends to Isaiah, "This day is a day of distress, of rebuke, and of disgrace; children have come to birth, and there is no strength to bring them forth" - children come to birth...means this is the moment of deliverance. : ) Isaiah says don't worry about it, we'll send a rumor of Egyptian help on the way.

Sennacherib replies with a threat very similar to the Rabshakeh's in chapter 18

Version 2: This time Hezekiah goes "before the Lord"...that is to say he bypasses the head priest and goes straight to the holy of holies...where he's not supposed to be allowed, iirc. To underline his location, his prayer references the cherubim. Isaiah then gives a poem condemning Sennacherib's arrogance, since his success is part of god's plan. "Have you not heard/ that I determined it long ago?

In any case the book claims that Sennacherib's army was struck down and he leaves to be killed in Nineveh. In truth Sennacherib did eventually die...20years later in 681 bce.

Chapter 20 Hezekiah part 3

Isaiah tells Hezekiah that he's going to die...but the LORD speaks to Isaiah again, changes his pledge and says that Hezekiah will actually live another 15 years. My notes tell me this is probably out of sequence and probably should have been placed before the siege...in other words, it should be a turning point for Hezekiah.

Anyway, Hezekiah then makes a critical mistake...he shows the Babylonian representatives of King Merodach-baladan everything. (King Merodach-baladan was deposed by Sennacherib in 703...so years before the siege.) Only afterward does Isaiah prophecy the Babylonian exile. Then Hezekiah said to Isaiah, ‘The word of the Lord that you have spoken is good.’ For he thought, ‘Why not, if there will be peace and security in my days?’ ...weird

One way to interpret this. Hezekiah was so arrogant he thought he could make his subject follow his preferred religion and then stand up to Assyrian. He was wrong, and the consequences were disastrous. But he had a good PR guy who spun this all around. In this version he really made his own reality.

Oh yeah, that tunnel...All we get is a mention near the end: The rest of the deeds of Hezekiah, all his power, how he made the pool and the conduit and brought water into the city, are they not written in the Book of the Annals of the Kings of Judah?

2 Kings 21 - 25 Decline and fall...

Chapter 21 Manasseh

Manasseh of Judah - 686/7-642 - very long reign.

Manasseh was so impressed with Hezekiah's success and praise that he...undid the dominance of the Lord's cult and worked out a peace with Assyria. Manasseh had the unfortunate characteristic of being sane and clever and successful. The authors consider him the epitome of evil.

For this Manasseh is awarded prophecies of doom:
therefore thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, I am bringing upon Jerusalem and Judah such evil that the ears of everyone who hears of it will tingle. I will stretch over Jerusalem the measuring line for Samaria, and the plummet for the house of Ahab; I will wipe Jerusalem as one wipes a dish, wiping it and turning it upside down. I will cast off the remnant of my heritage, and give them into the hand of their enemies; they shall become a prey and a spoil to all their enemies...

My notes tell me that 2 Chronicles 33 is nicer to Manasseh.

Amnon of Judah - 642-640 bce - evil, killed by servants.

Chapter 22 Josiah gets the lost book

Josiah of Judah - 640-609 bce

In his 18th year, 622 bce, Josiah (then 26 years old) kicks off a temple reform. That is he is going back to Hezekiah's ways and following only the YHWH cult. The head priest Hilkiah tells the head of the reform (Shapham) "I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord.’" - That's 2 Kings 22:8, and what he "found" was possibly Deuteronomy.

Shapham reads the book to Josiah...who freaks out because of the curses on the Israelites for not following the laws in this lost book.

Josiah sends messengers to the Prophetess Huldah, who confirms the books truth...then tells Josiah not to worry about it because the curses happen later and he will die peacefully. Well, Josiah will not die peacefully, but that's later on.

Chapter 23 Josiah's reforms

So Josiah makes a covenant, holds a Passover (I thought it might be significant that Passover is an anti-Egyptian thing, but my study bible didn't mention this) and destroys a whole bunch of stuff. He retakes Bethel and destroys almost everything sacred in the city, fulfilling the prophecy in 1 kings 13...the prophecy that specifically names Josiah.

Then he goes to see the pharaoh in Meggido, and Pharaoah Necho II kills him...without any explanation here. So much for the great Josiah and his reforms.

The pharaoh isn't done. Jehoahaz, Josiah's successor, is removed by the Pharaoh and replaced with Elaikim, who becomes Jehoiakim...who rules Judah from 609 - 598.

Some historical context:
By this time Assyia is collapsing to Babylonian pressure and asking for Egyptian help
- 605 bce - Battle of Carchemish - Where Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon whips the combined Assyrian/Egyptian army under Pharaoah Necho II
- 601/0 bce - Babylonia loses some battles. Jehoiakim rebels.
- 591 bce - Psammetichus II, fresh of victories in Nubia, begins to attack Babylon, again.

Chapter 24 The fall of Jerusalem

Jehoiakim rebels from Nebuchadnezzar, leading to a Babylonian invasion. "Surely this came upon Judah at the command of the Lord"

Jehoiachim (598/7) succeeds and lasts 3 months. Oh, he was evil. He surrenders to Nebuchadnezzar who takes him to Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar also takes from Jerusalem all the officials, all the warriors, ten thousand captives, all the artisans and the smiths; no one remained, except the poorest people of the land.

Mattaniah becomes king as Zedekiah - 597-587/6 - was evil

My notes mention that Jerusalem's fall is covered in four places. Here plus 2 Chronicles 36, Jeremiah 39 and Jeremiah 52

Chapter 25
- Egypt returns (591) & Zedekiah rebels and joins Egypt. they captured the king and brought him up to the king of Babylon at Riblah, who passed sentence on him. They slaughtered the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes, then put out the eyes of Zedekiah; they bound him in fetters and took him to Babylon.

- Nebuzaradan, captain of Nebuchadnezzar's body guard, loots the temple.

- 586 bce - Solomon's temple is destroyed.

- Gedaliah placed in charge, but his killed by an Israelite, Ishmael. These Ishmaelites flee to Egypt.

- The book ends with Jehoiachim. After 30 years in prison, he is released by the Babylonian king Evil-merodach (who only ruled two years, 560-562) and he is kept as a guest of the king on an allowance.

James L. Kugel (How to Read the Bible) had some interesting things to say about Wisdom and Solomon's wisdom.

Kugel argues that "wisdom" should be interpreted as something akin to knowledge. When the books tell us Solomon had great wisdom what they really mean is he was the equivalent of someone today who is really well-read. He was well-informed with culturally passed-down knowledge. (I see Druidic parallels) But even this, Kugel argues, had a different meaning than it does today

We tend to think of knowledge as an ever-growing body of information: each day, scientists discover new things about the universe and about ourselves. But to a denizen of the ancient world, knowledge was a fixed, utterly static set of facts, the unchanging rules that underlie all of reality as we know it. Those rules had been established sine the world had been created; indeed, when the Bible asserts that God had created the world "with wisdom", what it means is that He had established it according to certain immutable patterns. Possessing wisdom thus meant knowing the rules...

Kugel goes on to argue that the Solomon did not compose the proverbs, but that he "spoke" them, i.e. he mastered them.

---

Kugel has a few other things to say of interest:

- He sees parallels between the relationship of Ahab and Elijah and the relationship of Saul and Samuel.

- He has a little essay on "The Still, Small Voice". This is a KJV translation of 1 Kings 19:12

KJV: And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
NRSV: and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of sheer silence.
Kugel wants it to mean "the sound of the tiniest voice"

What is interesting to me is that this parallels what that Yale intro course emphasizes, that one of the unique things about YHWH vs other gods was that he was not associated with natural phenomena. He is separated from that, somewhere else.

The Essay in The Literary Guide to the Bible is written by George Savran and a few other interesting things to say. Actually it's a pretty good essay.

He tries for "an analysis of the historiographer's narrative strategies"

He emphasizes the unity that drives Kings:
- from the continuous history directed toward a clear endpoint
- the inexorability of it's fate
- from the formulaic and repeated language used to evaluate each king

Two ways to look at the structure

Basic
1. 1 Kings 1-11 - United Monarchy
2. 1 Kings 12 - 2 Kings 17 - Divided kingdom
3. 2 Kings 18-25 - Judah

Chiastic
A. 1 Kings 1-11:25 - United Kingdom and building of the temle
B. 1 Kings 11:26 -14 - Division
C. 1 Kings 15-16:22 - Split Kings, pre-Omrides
D. 1 Kings 16:23-2 Kings 12 - Omrides - Omri and Ahab/the rise and fall of Baal with Jezebel/Elijah/Elisha. About 40 years covered through these 20 chapters
C'. 2 Kings 13-16 - Split kings, post-Omrides
B'. 2 Kings 17 - Fall of Northern Kingdom
A'. 2 Kings 18-25 - Fall of Judah and destruction of the temple

The center is then 2 Kings 2 - Elijah's ascent to heaven
Before this, Elijah is given his commissions from God.
After this Elisha executes Elijah's commissions

On Ahab:
Not simply bad. Basically he is indecisive, inconsistent, and an opportunist. When he is finally forced to make a decision in 1 Kings 22, he chooses badly and attacks Aram.

On Jehu:
Very mixed record. Author's clearly make a point of emphasizing the murders, condemning him even as they overtly praise him. Jezebel's final words ring true.

Some Themes:
The covenant with David making him king also makes Israel dependent on its kings, which actually condemns the Israelites.

Oracles - they all come true (except Josiah's end):

Main Oracles
1. Nathan : 2 Samuel 7 - pledges Davidic line of Kings
2. Ahijah : 1 Kings 11:29 - division of kingdom for Solomon's sins
3. Ahijah : 1 Kings 14:15 - Loss of the northern kingdom for Jeroboam's sins
4. Fall of Judah and Exile in four places
Isaiah to Hezekiah - 2 Kings 20
anonymous: 2 Kings 21
Huldah: 2 Kings 22
narrator: 2 Kings 23:26-27

Elijah/Elisha
Elijah is always against the king, and is compared to Moses
Elisha advises kings, an is compared to Joshua

Final thoughts...

"Surely this came upon Judah at the command of the Lord"

Is this an explanation or overt sarcasm?

The one thing that strikes me here is how transparent this text is. It says one thing, yet blatantly hints at something else. I made a big deal of Finkelstein and Silberman's ideas being more accurate because I somehow thought they were reading into the text, between the lines, and finding parallels to the archeology. But, really, looking at my comments in post #4 above again, now after reading the book, I don't see anything there is in anyway not obvious simply from text itself. It's not that subtle. In hindsight I don't think Finkelstein and Silberman were reading into the text that deeply. The text clearly says everything they say it says, they were merely reading it. I'm not even sure archeology is in any way fundamental to their argument.

History is always a story, an never truly accurate even if all the collected facts are perfectly true. It's just simplification that parallels a perspective, and, typically, provides some meaning for it. There are two histories here. The one that explains everything as gods plan and, while maybe logically consistent, is entirely ridiculous. And, also, the one summarized in post #4 about a small state who had it's moment in the sun, briefly, built on the rubble of it's fallen neighbor. In both cases the facts are the same, and this books here is our only significant source. The truth...who knows.

My review of Kings is here (message #155): http://www.librarything.com/topic/147378#3937339