Steinbeckathon 2012: Of Mice and Men

"Guys like us, that work on ranches, are the loneliest guys in the world. They got no family. They don’t belong no place. . . . With us it ain’t like that. We got a future. We got somebody to talk to that gives a damn about us. We don’t have to sit in no bar room blowin’ in our jack jus’ because we got no place else to go. If them other guys gets in jail they can rot for all anybody gives a damn. But not us."

This is the discussion thread for John Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men
weejane and Crazymamie will be co-hosting this thread.
Spoilers are welcome, but please indicate them in your message out of
respect for those who are reading at a different pace. Enjoy!



Steinbeckathon main thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/130105

Normally, Brit (weejane) should be hosting it this month, but as she hasn't been heard from for the last few days, and a new arrival is expected for them, we might need to have someone take over the spot.

My plate is pretty full on LT this month with a tutored read of Wolf Hall (http://www.librarything.com/topic/137481), but I'd be willing to co-host with someone else maybe?

Thanks to Mamie (Crazymamie) for offering to co-tutor this thread this month. We'll both be standing by! Happy reading everyone!

And the thread's now on the wiki!

Okay, I'll take this month off and let you and Mamie host this one, Ilana. I'm back on deck for East of Eden in July.

I should get my copy of Of Mice and Men from the library within the next week. This is a re-read for me; I did read this one when it was assigned in high school.

I remember reading this years ago and loving it so the re-read excites me. I am just a few pages in and loving it again.

I, too, read this in high school, and then again a few years ago. I'm really looking forward to a reread. I'm sure that there'll be something new to find.

Karen O.

Ilana, thanks so much for setting up this thread - it is just as gorgeous as all the other ones that you have created! I love seeing all the different covers that Steinbeck's books have had over the years. I am really enjoying each month's reading of the works and have learned so much by everyone sharing their thoughts and opinions on each work. It has been both fun and fascinating!

A little late to the party here, but I am excited to see a group read of an old favorite of mine. I read Of Mice and Men, like many of you, for the first time in high school. Over the years I have returned to that slim volume and read it again and again. Each time I seem to find something new to discover. That, I think, is the magic of a great writer. One of the things that I have come to respect about Steinbeck's work is how very carefully and thoughtfully he labeled it - I am talking about his choice of titles. Sometimes his titles are deceptively simple, for example Cannery Row or The Wayward Bus, but once read we learn that those titles hold more for us than a location or a plot description. Other books received titles that are literary or musical references and we must delve deeper to see how the title is connected to the theme or the plot of the book. These are my favorite kind of titles. We saw that in The Grapes of Wrath Steinbeck took his title from The Battle Hymn of the Republic, and what a great job he did of showing us his thought process in linking the lines of that song to his story. In Of Mice and Men, Steinbeck takes his title from the lines in the second to last stanza of a Robert Burns poem. Burns was a Scottish poet and some of the words are confusing to those of us without that heritage. Below I am copying the original poem and its standard English translation. Burns supposedly wrote this poem after he had destroyed a mouse nest with his plough.

Burns original:
Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty
Wi bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murdering pattle.

I'm truly sorry man's dominion
Has broken Nature's social union,
An' justifies that ill opinion
Which makes thee startle
At me, thy poor, earth born companion
An' fellow mortal!

I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
A daimen icker in a thrave
'S a sma' request;
I'll get a blessin wi' the lave,
An' never miss's.

Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin!
It's silly wa's the win's are strewin!
An' naething, now, to big a new ane,
O' foggage green!
An' bleak December's win's ensuin,
Baith snell an' keen!

Thou saw the fields laid bare an' waste,
An' weary winter comin fast,
An' cozie here, beneath the blast,
Thou thought to dwell,
Till crash! the cruel coulter past
Out thro' thy cell.

That wee bit heap o' leaves an' stibble,
Has cost thee monie a weary nibble!
Now thou's turned out, for a' thy trouble,
But house or hald,
To thole the winter's sleety dribble,
An' cranreuch cauld.

But Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!

Still thou are blest, compared wi' me!
The present only toucheth thee:
But och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!

Standard English translation:

Small, crafty, cowering, timorous little beast,
O, what a panic is in your little breast!
You need not start away so hasty
With argumentative chatter!
I would be loath to run and chase you,
With murdering plough-staff.

I'm truly sorry man's dominion
Has broken Nature's social union,
And justifies that ill opinion
Which makes thee startle
At me, thy poor, earth born companion
And fellow mortal!

I doubt not, sometimes, but you may steal;
What then? Poor little beast, you must live!
An odd ear in twenty-four sheaves
Is a small request;
I will get a blessing with what is left,
And never miss it.

Your small house, too, in ruin!
Its feeble walls the winds are scattering!
And nothing now, to build a new one,
Of coarse grass green!
And bleak December's winds coming,
Both bitter and keen!

You saw the fields laid bare and wasted,
And weary winter coming fast,
And cozy here, beneath the blast,
You thought to dwell,
Till crash! the cruel plough passed
Out through your cell.

That small bit heap of leaves and stubble,
Has cost you many a weary nibble!
Now you are turned out, for all your trouble,
Without house or holding,
To endure the winter's sleety dribble,
And hoar-frost cold.

But little Mouse, you are not alone,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes of mice and men
Go often awry,
And leave us nothing but grief and pain,
For promised joy!

Still you are blest, compared with me!
The present only touches you:
But oh! I backward cast my eye,
On prospects dreary!
And forward, though I cannot see,
I guess and fear!

Ilana Thank you so much for setting up this thread. I am here and I promise I will be around! (Unless the baby comes soon, which I admit would be nice). Now that I have finished up reading the pertinent parts of The Birth Partner, I'm ready to focus on something a little less stress inducing.

Mamie - Thank you for the great introduction to the poem and both translations. I knew Steinbeck based the title on this poem, but I did not know the background of the actual poem.

Oh, Brit - excellent! Now Ilana and I can sit back and be the Ed McMahon to your Johnny Carson. Or perhaps Ilana, Ellen and I could be the Pips to your Gladys Knight!

I too read this first in high school and remember being incredibly touched by the story and characters and impressed such a short novel could carry so much weight. I think I remember reading it again later on, so this should be my 3rd reading of it. I discovered the library has a recording read by Gary Sinise, which I've reserved already. Hopefully I'll get it soon.

#8 Thank you Mamie for the poem. I've read this book at least a couple of times, and am not sure if I ever knew the title was based on it. I'm glad you posted both versions. I was going to skip over the original and go straight to the standard English one, but then I found that though I didn't understand every single word of the original, I did get most of it, and found it so much more expressive than the translation.

#9 Hi Brit! This might be a tiny novel, but it certainly packs a punch and hopefully will bring about some interesting discussion.

Mamie, thanks for posting the poem. It's a perfect reminder of Steinbeck's purpose and focus.
Book is available at SPL; I will pick it up this week and join in the discussion.

Thanks again Ilana for creating a thread! I have my copy and should be able to start it in a few days

ETA
I couldn't sleep tonight so I read it! (it's pretty short) It was excellent!
My review can be found here

Oh Chelle - you overachiever you!

I thought I brought the book with me to duty the other night, but I didn't . . . . so I will hopefully get some read tonight.

Eventually I will have something literary to add. . . .

Mamie & Ilana - let's just tag team it! :)

#13 Yes, I join Brit in my admiration for such a quick turnaround Chelle! I'm glad you enjoyed the novel. I have the printed version on hand, but have also requested the audiobook narrated by Gary Sinise from the library. Should come in sometime this week or next.

#14 Brit, I'm happy to leave you and Mamie to it. I don't have much time to spend on LT this month other than occasional incursions on a few threads and my tutoring of Wolf Hall, which is a big undertaking for me. I'm sure you'll both do a fantastic job!

Ilana - I bet Gary Sinise would do a fabulous job narrating the book!

I started the book last night and already had to force myself to put it down.

haha that's what a nice case of insomnia will do! Plus the other book I was reading was a vampire one and it was storming out and Nate was working so I figured I should read something else that night! ;)

Thanks for posting the poem, Ilana! I'd never read it all the way through before.

#16 Brit, I haven't seen the movie myself, but seems Gary Sinise plays the role of George in the movie version with John Malkovitch. I'll be borrowing that movie from the library as soon as I'm done with the book.

#18 Joe, you're welcome, I'll pass on the thanks to Mamie since she is the one who posted it actually. ;-)

Oops! Thanks, Mamie!

I'm bowing out of this read in our Steinbeckathon adventure as I read OMaM last year but I will lurk away to read the comments of others. enjoy!

Just brought back the audiobook from the library today. I'll be starting on it sometime in the coming week probably.

I started reading today. Another good reason for Steinbeck's Nobel....

Of Mice and Men was published in 1937, two years before The Grapes of Wrath, and I think that is so interesting because they share some themes. Of Mice and Men is so short that Steinbeck does not have the time or the space to insert his wonderful commentaries and descriptions about time and setting the way that he does in The Grapes of Wrath between chapters. He is limited to a few brief sentences here and there that hint at his ability to fully capture the moment the way that he demonstrates for us in TGoW. It's almost as if Of Mice and Men was the appetizer for his longer work - as if he is setting the stage, and I wonder if he did this intentionally or if after writing OMaM he wanted to explore some of those themes that he touched on in greater detail.

Mamie - That is an excellent description Of Mice and Men! One thing that I really enjoy about Steinbeck is his ability to so intricately describe the scenery. That was one of my favorite things about East of Eden - which I cannot wait to read next month!

Thank you, Brit! I am excited to get to East of Eden because I have not read that one before, so I am really looking forward to it. I love Steinbeck's descriptions too, both of scenery and of characters - he makes you feel as if you are there by drawing you into the setting and making you feel invested in his characters, whether you like them or not.

I'm almost halfway through. I'm worried about those pups....

Completed. Here is my uber-short review:

Steinbeck is better at breaking the reader's heart than just about anyone. Once again, the Nobel Prize winner uses spare and beautiful language to tell a simple tale of hope, despair, longing, and friendship. 105 of the best pages I've ever read.

I just finished Of Mice and Men Tragic. Beautiful.
Full review to follow

I finished the book this evening too.

*****SPOILER ALERT*****

As I had read the book before, I really had to force myself to concentrate for those 10 pages. I really wanted to just gloss them over because I wasn't sure I could handle them!

When more people are done, I have a question for the group. . .

I started my reread, and while this time around I can better appreciate the wonderful writing and felt at home immediately, I still have my problem with Lennie and I don't know if I'll make it through the whole book again. Or maybe I'll just skip "those pages". It's really stupid because I know it is a great book, but all my thinking is so focused on "that" that I can hardly concentrate on the other important elements.
(It was a wise decision how Steinbeck handled the turtle later in TGoW)

I agree that it was a very painful novel to read. I'll be interested in your question, weejane ---- are you waiting because your question presents a spoiler or because you want more people to engage in the discussion?

I'm worried that my question presents too much of a spoiler.

Okay, worth saving for later in the month, then.

That was my thought . . .

Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck

First Line
~ A few miles south of Soledad, the Salinas River drops in close to the hill-side bank and runs deep and green ~

Tragic. Beautiful.

This book is about unfulfilled dreams. Dreams of independence, Dreams of a better life. Of security. Of self-respect. Acceptance. Fame. Love.

Each character is striving to find something they do not have or to be something that they are not. And each one is powerless over their circumstances.

There is anger, bitterness, jealousy, hate, ignorance, loneliness, prejudice, and inhumanity.

And, yet, there is love, compassion, companionship, kindness.

I am in awe of John Steinbeck.

Profound storytelling in very few words.

5.0 stars

How is everyone coming with the book?

Cathy - very nice review!

>37 weejane:
thanks weejane! I loved this book.

weejane asked how we are coming with the book...

This is my second time through (in recent years--I read it in high school, too). I'm concentrating on the writing this time. I'm sure I was more focused on the plot the last time. I'm a couple chapters in at this point.

Karen O.

I picked up the audiobook last night and just finished it this evening. Gary Sinise does an awesome job with the narration, giving each character his own voice. I read it in high school, and once again many years ago, but somehow I'd forgotten some of the most important elements of the plot. I think what struck me the most this time around is the theme of loneliness and how each character copes with it. I'll probably get the movie version from the library soon as I'm curious to see how it was rendered.

I am making a great effort to like OMaM better this second time, and it looks like I'm succeeding! I'm able to appreciate many small details which on my first read were all overshadowed by the whole Lennie story. It is a very short book, but it needs to read slowly, at least by me.

#40 and others: the theme of loneliness is so well worked out, and I am only noticing it now.
I just wish Steinbeck hadn't chosen puppies as furry animals, most of my focus was on them (and Lennie) on my first read.

The movie version by Gary Sinise (in which he stars and directs) is, IMO, excellent! John Malkovitch does an incredible job in bringing Lennie to life too. The movie came on soon after I had finished reading OMaM in December, and I thought it stayed very true to the book.

I really want to see the Sinise/Malkovitch version. When I first read the book in 8th grade, we watched another version and it wasn't very good.

While I think we all agree that Steinbeck's writing is phenomenal, especially in this short novel, I'm curious to find out how others saw the relationship between Lennie and George. Do you think they were cousins or related in another way? Steinbeck does not really explain this, but drops hints along the way.

I didn't think that they were related but wondered how George came to take so much responsibility for Lennie in the first place. I guess it, in some way, satisfied his 'need to be needed'

Lenny and George grew up together, and those ties can really bind people together. Also, Lenny's Aunt Clara had bound George to Lenny, asking George to look after him. George was such a good caretaker, using every bit of his limited resources to try to take care of Lenny.

I finished my reread this morning. I'm glad I participated in the group read; I caught things this time that I hadn't seen before.

For example, I noticed that Steinbeck sets the scene, very cinematically, at the beginning of each chapter. The first and last chapters are set outdoors; the intervening chapters are set indoors (bunkhouse, bunkhouse, Crooks' room (harness room), horse barn). I don't really know what that means (hehe), but it does provide a kind of interesting structure.

Was "Curley's wife" ever referred to by her name, or was she always "Curley's wife"?

Karen O.

>45 klobrien2: - Curley's wife was not referred to by name.

that's what I thought ("Curley's wife"--no name)

On this read, I actually really felt sorry for her. I mean, apart from the obvious reason for pity. There were two females in the book--Aunt Clara, and Curley's Wife. And the women at the brothels in town. Yikes.

Karen O.

Karen - I, too, felt sorry for Curley's wife in a way I hadn't from earlier reads.

Okay, so I think it is safe to go back to the question that I have been asking. What did everyone think of Lennie's dialogue with himself at the end of the book, while It was so fascinating to me! I found that it was really the only time I really connected with Lennie.

Also, clearly there was a connection between Candy's dog and Lennie, both innocent victims. Do you think that George felt obligated to shoot Lennie at the end of the book, the same way that Candy felt he should have been the one to shoot his dog?

Spoilers coming:
#48: that's a part I had completely forgotten from my first read which was less than a year ago. For me personally it added to the overall feeling that, not unlike The Moon is Down, this book could very easily adapted for stage/film (it was such a theatrical effect). And I didn't really need this bit. His guilt feelings and 'innocence' had been apparent before, this scene was almost too much for me.

The scene in the barn with the dead puppy still terrifies me. His reaction to its death, mangling its body even more. Half of the book I was asking myself how George ever managed to get Lennie through life until that point. The event at the other farm had happened when? A couple of days before the start of the book? How many escapes did they have before that?

I was glad I was able to remove my focus a bit from Lennie on this second read and found a connection with the others, especially Candy and Crooks. I was however annoyed with George when he let go off his dream and sent Candy back into the shadows. As a first reaction, I understand it well, but I'd like to hope that he changed his mind again some time later.

#48: I think George came to the realization that he could not protect the world from Lenny, nor Lenny from the world. The least he could do was to avoid any suffering on Lenny's part. Very, very sad, but Lenny was just uncontrollable.

#49: When the boys were talking about their dream, it seemed so achievable. And they weren't asking for much--just a little dignity, the ability to contribute their work, and to make some decisions for themselves.

Karen O.

It was interesting how everyone was just so very lonely, and really just wanted some connection to another person.

As you put it, dignity is a good word for what they were seeking to.

Just a chance to work honestly and for just enough, not greedy for everything. That is what struck me about each character as we met them.

***********SPOILERS*********

The death of Lennie was George's way of showing his love for him. Lennie is about to be lynched by the mob and killed by someone else. George was able to kill Lennie while he had the vivid picture of the dream of his life to come. It was kindness.

I understand that this is why this book has been banned in many schools. Because it seems to condone mercy killing. That and the racism and objectification of women etc etc. Too me, it is a love story. And not necessarily to be taken literally. It is fiction after all.

ccookie, I think you are so right about George's mercy killing of Lenny (Curly had a horrible death planned for Lenny). I very much see the "love story" in the book.

Again, Steinbeck makes his characters seem so alive, in all their glory and pain. I think I have to read something a little lighter next, this story was very sad.

Karen O.

>53 klobrien2: very sad, Karen. But so worth reading! I think I have heard Steinbeck referred to as the greatest American writer (and Cormac McCarthy as the greatest LIVING American author.)

Cathy

Cathy, the Steinbeckathon has made me a believer in the "greatest American writer" thing. I'm so glad that it is happening, and that I jumped on board.

Karen O.

His works are brilliant!
I am reading The Pearl right now as well as finishing up The Grapes of Wrath from last month. Powerful and so real, even though fiction. ~grin ~

ccookie - I had never thought of it as a love story! That is such an interesting perspective!

I completely agree that George was trying to be kind to Lennie.

It looks like pretty much everyone has wrapped up their read here and I hope you enjoyed it! Thanks for allowing me to come back and co-host with the fabulous Mamie!

IT IS AN AMAZING BOOK!

>52 ccookie: I understand that this is why this book has been banned in many schools.

Yes, I can see why it would be for the reasons you stated, ccookie. Both my boys had to read this in their 9th grade English classes. Last year when my youngest had to read it, I had to sign a permission slip - which I did gladly, of course. This was my second time through it this year and its impact was even more strongly felt knowing how it was going to end.

Slowly I am catching up with the Steinbeck books that have been read before I started participating... :)

Unlike for so many of you it was the first time I read the book. Like so many of you I LOVED it. It's so sensitive and cruel at the same time and I really have to second Ellen's observation in #28: Steinbeck is better at breaking the reader's heart than just about anyone.
I was deeply touched by the novella and I will definetely read it again (soon).

I didn't know about the movie adaptation with John Malkovich. As I like him very much as an actor and was lucky enough to experience him life on stage I must see that movie!