The Age of Innocence: Chapters 25-34

Charlas75 Books Challenge for 2011

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The Age of Innocence: Chapters 25-34

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1Donna828
Oct 9, 2011, 10:18 pm

Thank you for sharing your comments about The Age of Innocence. I hope it was an enjoyable experience.

2billiejean
Oct 27, 2011, 6:25 pm

I finally finished the book and I have to say that I thought it was a great read. I loved the ending of the book, too. I wish I had read this a long time ago. Thanks for putting together this group read.

3Donna828
Oct 27, 2011, 9:23 pm

I also finished up the book today. Have I mentioned that this is the third time I've read it? I'm going to leave my rating at 4.5 stars which is pretty darn good for me. It's a good story of thwarted love and an even better story about the personal conflict of social and moral issues. I looked up my review, one of the first I wrote on LibraryThing back in 2008 when I could still write pithy comments. Here's what I wrote:

Written in the early part of the 20th century, recipient of the 1921 Pulitzer Prize, and considered a Classic for a reason. Almost ninety years later, it is still an intriguing look at the smugness of the old order of New York society. Wharton's story of the struggle between personal yearnings and the constraints of propriety combined with her eloquent writing make for an memorable story of the consequences we pay for our decisions.


I hope we can discuss the end of the book in greater detail. Right now I need to decompress a bit from Edith Wharton. ;-)

4lit_chick
Oct 28, 2011, 11:11 pm

Just finished reading this evening. The Age of Innocence has become a favourite, a five-star read for me! I love that in closing Wharton follows the story through far enough that we get a glimpse of NY society beginning to change. Donna, thank you for organizing : ).

Have to put in a plug here for The Virgin Cure which was just released and is also set in 1870s NYC; but this new novel is about the exact opposite society in which the Wellands and Archers lived - the extreme poverty, disease, and misfortune in the city. (Ami McKay did The Birth House a few years ago which was also fabulous.)

5Donna828
Nov 7, 2011, 2:02 pm

Nancy, you nailed it in what you said about the change in New York society. I think Newland was right in calling himself "old fashioned" at the end of the book. He knew himself to be a part of the old society of New York with all its traditions and restrictions.

I know many people (including the majority of my class) didn't like the ending of the story. It worked for me because I felt that Newland had a valid fear about that "shadow of reality" losing its edge if he went up to May and they acted on the passion they had felt for each other 30 years ago. He had remarked a bit earlier that Ellen had gone on with her life in Paris "in conditions he would never wholly understand." I believe it's true that sometimes our memories serve us better than trying to resurrect the past.

Anybody else want to share their reaction to the end of the book? All opinions are welcome.

I'd like to encourage any who haven't done so to watch the Scorsese adaptation of The Age of Innocence. I watched it yesterday and was enraptured by the lavish sets and the (mostly) faithful depiction of Edith Wharton's book. I loved Joanne Woodward's narration and and found much of the dialogue to be taken directly from the book. Daniel Day-Lewis was magnificent as Newland Archer. I got totally caught up in this feast for the senses. Some of those sumptuous dinners almost made me want to dress for dinner and break out the crystal and good china.

6billiejean
Nov 8, 2011, 12:10 am

I personally thought the ending of the book was perfect. After all that time, they were two different people.

7AnneDC
Nov 8, 2011, 11:02 am

I always read the ending, wishing Newland would go inside and they would live "happily ever after." Why not? But, I think the actual ending is more realistic and appropriate, and in keeping with Newland's nature.

I think he was a little bit afraid that the real Ellen was a threat to his idealized passion for her and his memories.

I noticed this description of Newland from the very first chapter
He had dawdled over his cigar because he was at heart a dilettante, and thinking over a pleasure to come often gave him a subtler satisfaction than its realisation. This was especialy the case when the pleasure was a delicate one, as his pleasures mostly were.


I loved the part where Archer's son asks him about Ellen and indicates he knows about their history. I found it intriguing that May knew of his feelings for Ellen all along (unbeknownst to Newland, who always imagined May as completely innocent and unaware).

When Dallas tells his surprised father that May told him before she died: "She said she knew we were safe with you, and always would be, because once, when she asked you to, you'd given up the thing you most wanted," Newland's response, "She never asked me", suggests that May made the decision for him, which she (and Ellen) really did. But he says this as if he believes he would have done something different, had he been asked. Whatever he thinks, I don't really believe he would have made a different choice--it's just not who he is.

8gennyt
Nov 8, 2011, 12:14 pm

#7 Well spotted with that quotation about the cigar dawdling. Interesting that there is a clue in the very first chapter to Newland's character which plays out right through to the end.

I think the ending was just right too - although I also recognise the desire for a kind of delayed resolution/happy ending, wishing that he would have gone inside and they could be together at last. But it is definitely more in character that he does not do so. Perhaps hesitating not only on his own account, in case the reality was different from his ideals, but also from her account, in case she should no longer want him - which is actually quite likely - Ellen's life will have moved on a long way since she returned to Europe.

9souloftherose
Nov 8, 2011, 1:23 pm

Gosh, I finished this a couple of weeks ago and completely forgot to come and post on this thread.

I think the third section was my favourite section of the book.

#4 "I love that in closing Wharton follows the story through far enough that we get a glimpse of NY society beginning to change."

#5"I think Newland was right in calling himself "old fashioned" at the end of the book. He knew himself to be a part of the old society of New York with all its traditions and restrictions."

Completely agree; I think for Newland there was some sadness about seeing the change come too late for him.

#7 Thank you for highlighting that description of Newland, Anne. As I was reading I found myself wandering at which point May started to realise Newland's feelings for Ellen.

I think the ending was right, although a sad one but they've both moved on in life.

Something I did find interesting was the symmetry between the opera scene in ch 32 and ch 1; even the soprano is singing the same aria. Newland notices May is wearing her wedding dress for the first time but May tears and spoils the dress on the way home before they discuss Ellen. I found myself wondering whether Wharton was trying to symbolise May's loss of innocence (or Newland realising she's not innocent) as we later find out that this was the day after May had seen Ellen and told her she was pregnant.

I also found this comment by Newland's son interesting in ch 34:

"You never did ask each other anything, did you? And you never told each other anything. You just sat and watched each other, and guessed at what was going on underneath. A deaf and dumb asylum, in fact!"

May and Newland's lack of communication had been driving me potty thoughout the book. I wonder how many marriages at the time were so frozen and isolated.

10Soupdragon
Editado: Nov 12, 2011, 12:37 pm

Like Heather, I finished this a couple of weeks ago but didn't post!

I found the book exquisitely written and was impressed with how Wharton managed to do both the social satire and the romance so well. Sometimes I find that books that are strong on irony or satire don't quite convince when it comes to emotions!

I thought the ending was fitting. Newland wouldn't have found Ellen as he had remembered her and as Heather said, they have both moved on.

I notice that I gave this book four stars though I remember it as a 4.5 star book so am wondering why I dropped half a star. It might have been because I didn't experience the total engagement with it that I have with my favourite books. I loved it whilst I was reading it but didn't feel desperate to pick it up again later.

11Cheese_King
Editado: Nov 12, 2011, 12:38 pm

Este mensaje fue borrado por su autor.

12ronincats
Nov 12, 2011, 1:14 pm

I'm one of those who consider Newland a complete wuss at the end. I'm NOT angling for a happy ever after ending--I agree that they are two different people at this time, and that it would likely have been a dinner and a meeting to realize this, but to not even engage because he might not measure up to her experience of life--it makes for a dramatic literary book ending but is a real character defect for me. Anne, that was a great quote you picked up from the beginning of the book and an apt foreshadowing. Donna reminds me that Newland was probably based on her experiences with her ex-husband, and that is why he disappoints. Although I admit, to watch Daniel Day Lewis play him would probably ameliorate my reaction.

13Donna828
Nov 12, 2011, 6:24 pm

Thanks to all who are still discussing The Age of Innocence. This has been a great group read for a great book. I'm moving on to Old New York, but I hope the discussion gets revived from time to time as others read it. That's the beauty of group reads. People can read and post at their own pace.