CLUB READ MESSAGE BOARD

A place for general notes, comments, discussions, announcements which don't fit neatly into other categories.

Belletrista* Issue 10 (Mar/April) is up on the web. Lots of good stuff. 17 reviews, a majority of which have been done by Club Read members (interesting, don't you think?)

http://www.belletrista.com/2011/Issue10/index.php

The reviews:

http://www.belletrista.com/2011/Issue10/reviews.php

*for those unfamiliar, Belletrista is a non-for-profit, bimonthly web magazine which celebrates the writing of women throughout the world.

Friends of mine are editing a short story anthology to raise funds for the victim of the Christchurch (NZ) earthquake of 22 Feb - all funds raised go to the NZ Red Cross.

The anthology is now available for pre-order here:

http://randomstatic.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_10&prod...

Contributors include Neil Gaiman, Gwyneth Jones, Jay Lake, Jeff Vandermeer, Sean Williams, and a number of NZ authors. Check out the contributors' list here:

http://talesforcanterbury.wordpress.com/list-of-contributrs/

April is National Poetry Month. You can get a poem sent to you by e-mail every day by signing up with Knopf. I've done this for several years.

>4 rebeccanyc: Also the same idea through the Academy of American Poets http://www.poets.org/

Though they have run it all year this past year. And they are doing something with twitter this year also...

Has anyone been having trouble with the Book Depository?

I having been using the UK site for 3 or 4 or so years now usually with no problems. Lately every time I want to place an order, the books are out of stock. I'm not keen on the 'notify me' thing, as the last time, I was notified 5 times and it was never there.

As a former bookseller, I theorized that there stock problem was either a chronic underestimation of demand OR an attempt to keep stock at the lowest levels they can get away with for financial reasons. Both reasons might result in constantly being out of the books.

Was it my imagination or didn't they used to have a preorder/prebuy option. I know they didn't when they started but I thought they added it.

This last time I wanted to order 5 books, a mix of old and new. Not one was available, yet they were all available at Amazon.co.uk. And as I said before, I'm loathe to do the 'notify me' bit. And reluctant to buy the exorbitant shipping costs that Amazon charges, I popped over to ABEbooks.

Book Depository lists on ABEbooks and they listed there, one of the books they listed on their site as not-in-stock. It came today. Go figure. I also ordered the other books from various UK booksellers (or US booksellers with UK connections or vice versa) and the total shipping was less than Amazon.

Just wondering if other people have had problems. They used to be so problem free... sigh.

Lois, there was a discussion of problems with the Book Depository in Darryl/kidzdoc's thread earlier this year, starting here. As I said there, I find it depressing.

>6 avaland: - that's interesting. I ordered a couple of American books from them recently and received them promptly. It is all linked to the availability of books in country editions (this is the link referred to on KD's page (North American Purchase?) - simply put it now seems that if there is or is going to be a US edition of a book then a purchaser in the US gets blocked from buying the UK edition (and vice versa).
I always wondered how BD could afford to supply books postage free worldwide - the postage between the UK and the US is not an insignificant amount to absorb on individual book sales. You'll know better than I do but isn't there a publisher agreement regarding territory rights and that's why we have separate UK and US editions - perhaps now that BD have US distribution channels they have to be careful what books they sell where.

#Avaland
I have been using BD, UK website, for the past couple of years and have, thankfully, not had any difficulties.

I have pre-ordered a number of books from them and had no difficulty receiving the books once their publication date arrived.

Their customer service struck me as very good. I had an error in one order and they responded to my message very promptly and corrected the problem very graciously. I even recieved e-mails from real human beings, or at least very advanced Turing machines.

I'm sorry to hear you're having such difficulty as I have stayed with because I found their service to be so much better than Amazon, especially in relation to book packaging. I ceased buying from Amazon because their cheaper packaging meant every order I received had at least one damaged book inside.

Peter

Lois, I haven't had the problem you mention, but the last time I used BD it took ages for the books to arrive - several weeks, whereas in the past they'd always turned up within a couple of days. I know others here in Belgium have found the same recently.

>9 pgmcc: - strange you should say that. I complained to BD for just sticking paperbacks in jiffy bags because I received 3 damaged books in a row. I agree that their customer service was great - they refunded me instantly for the books.

#11 jargoneer
I may have been lucky. I found the jiffy bags they used protected my books better than the brown paper packed boxes Amazon used.

I think Amzon moved to the totally ineffective brown paper packing because it was cheaper than the very effective air-filled plastic.

I should say I do still order from them, as I often find them cheaper than Amazon even for US books (which they still seem to ship from the UK). I also often find differences between the prices on the US BD site and the UK BD site, which seems odd since they are being shipped from the same place. I can't figure that one out.

But I've completely given up on the "notify me" feature because as you point out it doesn't seem to work. I actually think what's happening is that the book IS back in stock but isn't available to US purchasers and the notification system doesn't know that I'm a US customer but the ordering system does and tells me it's out of stock even though the real answer is that they aren't selling it to US customers.

I experienced very long shipping times several months ago, but they seem better now.

#13 rebeccanyc

I experienced very long shipping times several months ago, but they seem better now.

Rebecca, the US processing of goods, including mail parcels/packets, has involved more stringent security checks in recent years. I work for the Irish postal administration and know that delays are very common for items going into or leaving the US for this reason. If things have improved recently it could indicate more efficient processing.

That may have had something to do with your delays, or not.

:-)

Interesting developments. Yesterday I received one book (Fear Not by Anne Holt*) I ordered from the BD through ABEbooks (they list their books on there, believe it or not). That's 6 days from order to deliver, from the UK to the US. The book was not available on the BD site at the time I ordered. It is a new book, apparently just came out.

Today I noticed, for example, that the forthcoming Asa Larson mystery is now available for preorder, it wasn't a week or so ago. I wonder if they only do that x number of days out from publication.

>13 rebeccanyc: Interesting you should mention something not being available to US buyers. I used to be in charge of ordering the UK books for our store via Gardners, a big UK distributor (this was for a small collection on the shelf, plus special order for customers). Only once in a while did we run across restricted books; but an individual could order the same books from a bookseller with no problem. I'm more inclined to think that the book becomes available again while those of us in the US are sleeping. Or maybe they just give priority to the UK addresses (nets them more $, oops, I mean £)

*the direct result of doing that story on women Nordic crime writers for Belletrista. I thought Anne Holt had one of the most interesting resumes of any of the writers and became curious...

>9 pgmcc: Yes, they were trouble free for a few years there. And still, I have never received anything damaged. This last book, a hardcover, came in a thin cardboard "envelope" - it arrived in good condition, so my initial fears upon seeing the new packaging so far are unfounded.

I've ordered several books from Amazon US or AbeBooks recently, which ultimately came from The Book Depository, most recently River of Smoke, the new novel by Amitav Ghosh. It lists for £20.00 ($32.13 US, based on the current exchange rate), and AbeBooks was selling it for a total cost of $28.67, including shipping and handling, so I bought it. The package came from The Book Depository, as if I had ordered it from the company directly.

I have tried to buy several new books this year from The Book Depository this year that were unavailable in the US, and I've been told that the book is unavailable. Whenever I've received an e-mail informing me that the book is now available I am still unable to order it.

>16 kidzdoc: Sounds like we are all having the same problems.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/120016

That might explain the problem. Seems Amazom just bought TBD.

Damn!

#14 pgmcc, Strangely enough, a book I ordered just last week arrived today from the UK, much faster than in the past. But I hate to think what may happen once Amazon takes over.

I wanted to see which books were recently added by group members, but the RSS feed only produces a blank screen. Is it broken, or has it ever / never worked?

Has everything got smaller or have my eyes gone funny

no it's just me being silly - I had accidentally clicked on the zoom box in the bottom left hand corner of the screen

Belletrista, Issue 12 is up: http://www.belletrista.com/2011/Issue12/index.php

It features reviews (both regular and in the African book section) from such notable Club Read members as kidzdoc, nickelini, cait86, rachbxl, lilisin, janeajones, akeela, and dukedom_enough (have I missed anyone that is in Club Read?).

COPYRIGHT ISSUES

I have noticed that various group members quote poems freely in their threads, and want to point out that in the case of poetry which is still under copyright, that is a copyright violation.

Copyright regulations for poetry are stricter than those for prose, to the effect, basically, that any reproduction of a whole poem or a part of a poem, other than for private, study or research purposes is illegal.

>24 edwinbcn: It's been noted and discussed before.

Then why do members keep posting / reproducing complete poems?

>26 edwinbcn: - probably because we're rational adults that realise current copyright law is unworkable and that by posting poems we're actually helping poets rather than stealing from them. No-one is posting whole books but single poems, usually with a recommendation of the book they were reproduced from. On the other hand we could all stop quoting poems which means that poets are less read, our recommendations are less valuable, and help drive another nail into the coffin of poetry, which is already read by a minority of a minority of a minority.

We do not need to quote from novels to write a good review which may encourage people to buy that novel; likewise, it is possible to write a review of a bundle of poetry without quoting any poems.

LibraryThing uses strict regulations about all copyrighted materials. Poetry should be no exception.

>28 edwinbcn: - a lot of (good) reviews do quote from novels however to give a flavour of the writing. Arguably since poetry is as much, if not more, about the writing as the subject matter it makes even more sense to give the reader a taste of it.

Rather than compare poetry and novels it makes more sense to compare to poetry and music. If someone recommends me an album I may go out and buy it on that recommendation but it is more likely that I will go a website and get a taster of it. If more poets took advantage of the web then it would be easy to point a reader to the writer's website but that isn't often the case. I think most poets are happy enough with someone publishing an individual poem, especially if that individual is recommending that readers seek out their work - publishing ten may be an issue.

If you read this Fair Use of Poetry then the use of an individual poem or quotes in a review is perfectly acceptable.

Concurring with Jargoneer, a case can be made that posting a poem on LT fits under the rubric of "private, study or research purposes." This site is as close to an online study group as anything I've seen out there. Copyright has to do with commercial use, and there is no commerce going on here. We don't even have advertising!

Quoting from 17 US Code Section 107:

. . . the fair use of a copyrighted work . . . for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:
1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

With regard to 3, most poems are not copyrighted as separate works but as part of a larger work.

To repeat, the main thrust of copyright law is to protect from commercial use of protected material. There is no commerce going on here.

I would only add here—somewhat in echo of what jargoneer has said—that poetry to me is an incredibly subjective thing. I would never pick up a volume of poetry without having browsed through it (or seen a sampling of the poetry) unless I was very familiar with the poet. Unlike fiction or nonfiction, it would be exceedingly rare for me to go out and pick up a volume based on someone's review—I have to see it, experience it for myself. I pretty much assume the same for others.

I consider these forums similar to a face to face group of literary friends talking about the books they read to each other. It is only natural in the conversation to do the forum equivalent of, "Listen, Dan, to this great poem..." and then read it out loud to him and anyone else in the room.

Confession: Yes, I just posted a WHOLE poem by Sandra M. Gilbert over on my thread (run, don't walk there)(before the Pasternak excerpts). Sandra and W. W. Norton, you know where to find me! (as an added note, I sometimes choose to post excerpts, especially if I want to show bits of more than one poem).

And while we are active on this thread, I'd like to ask the broader audience what they think about length of personal threads. Sometime in the past 4 years these forums have been up, it was decided that threads shouldn't be longer than about 200 posts in a courtesy to those with dial-up and other slower forms of internet. Is this an outdated view now? Are people having problems loading the longer threads on the their mobile devices? Is it the images on the thread that bog it down? The mechanics of getting to unread posts and returning to the top should have helped some (?)?

I've never really enjoyed breaking the continuity of my reading chronicle by creating a new thread/s. My reading is actually down a little over past years, so I was thinking of continuing it through the end of the year. But I'm interested in what you have to say about it (thanks to those who have already given a little input on my thread).

After around 300 postings things start to slow.

The 300 is the new 200

>31 avaland: There was no need for a confession. You are engaging in free use under the free use doctrine of the copyright law. You are not gaining financially for your postings. It's a nonissue.

#30, Also, with respect to item 4 in the list, I would guess that posting poems here will increase the "potential market for or value of the copyrighted work" in that reading one poem may encourage someone to look at and perhaps buy the entire book.

Edited to fix typo.

I've always felt that a thread should be split at natural break or of the author's choosing rather than some arbitrary number of posts. I really don't mind the few seconds and jumpiness that comes with some of the larger threads or those with a lot graphics. The additional seconds are worth the wait for the most part and don't artificially cut off worth while conversations that may be left behind. I've never started a thread that was considered too long before so I've never had to make a decision to split a conversation so my opinion is worth much in this case.

I disagree with Poquette and jargoneer's interpretation of those sections of the copyright law. Their interpretation is wishful thinking. I am a published author, and have had to look into these matters before, specifically poetry and song lyrics.

1. Commercial or educational; LT clearly isn't educational; you may say individual members have not financial gain, but that's missing the point / fact that LT has financial gain.

2.Nature of the work. Different kind of work, different rules. From a novel you may quote relatively much, from a poem you may actually quote "nothing".

3. Substantiality; this is only for non-poetry, and determines how much you may quote, but as shown in #2, the rule for poetry is "not the whole and not a part.

4. Effect; is not limited to the use on LT, but the general effect of quoting poetry on blogs / poetry websites / forums etc

More in general, it is not for the user to determine whether usage is fair or OK or not, this is the prerogative of the copyright holder. Therefore, in most if not all cases, this assumed right to post (i.e. as assumed by e.g. Poquette and jargoneer, and other members who post poetry) must be confirmed by the copyright holder. Practically, this means you have to ask permission each time you post a quotation / part or whole poem.

Jargoneer's argument that few people read poetry, and reproduction helps sales, is irrelevant. Poetry is probably best comparable with music, and we all know, you may do almost nothing with music (not a part and not the whole).

The only reason I can see for starting a new chapter of a thread when it has grown long is to allow people an easy entry point into the discussion. It is less likely that someone new/busy will choose to read a thread with hundreds of posts to read, than one with just a few or a few dozen.

>31 avaland:

"Listen, Dan, to this great poem..."

Private audience is no problem, but "performance" for a larger audience is not OK. For poetry readings you will have to get permission. LT is not a face-to-face (one-on-one) reading group; LT is mass media, this group has 160 members (more than an average poetry reading would attract, and the groups have a much larger number of readers popping in.

(P.S. : I am not saying LT is like "poetry reading".)

I stand by my post, which was reviewed by an attorney before I posted it. In fact, I am on the telephone as I speak with my attorney and he says that the Library Thing membership fee does not invalidate the private study or fair use doctrine, because the person posting derives no gain.

A poet cannot give permission for his/her poem anyway, permission must come from the publisher. Here's an interesting article about getting permission - Simon Armitage - The Stone Beach. Exactly who benefits from a situation like this? The reader? The writer?

It is worth noting that current Copyright Law effectively pre-dates the internet and needs to be significantly revised (see the link I posted above). It is also worth noting that current CL owes more to Mickey Mouse than protecting individual artists since it was Walt Disney that drove the last changes through the US courts (and subsequently internationally). Since the 75 year rule will run out on Mickey soon expect another push from WD to change copyright again. The problem with this approach is that copyright is being created by financial interests, not artistic interests.

I quote this from the link above -

Under fair use, an online resource (such as a blog or web site) may
make examples of selected published poetry electronically available to the public,
provided that the site also includes substantial additional cultural resources,
including but not limited to critique or commentary, that contextualize or
otherwise add value to the selections.

The copyright holder can be the poet or the publisher, depending on where you got the work from.

I quote this from the link above, etc.: I could not find that on that page;

I think the page / article that you linked to illustrates the issue exactly, including the apparent inconsistency that the poem is available for free on the page of the Guardian, etc.

As I wrote before, permission must always be obtained (see any colophon page); publishers / authors have the prerogative to allow or deny reproduction without having to explain themselves; they also have the prerogative to allow one applicant free publication and charge another for any amount of money, however unreasonable that may seem.

My own experience in this matter, referred to above, is very similar (or even worse). I am the author of the national high school textbook for English in China. My textbooks have been and are being used nationwide in China by millions of students and teachers, since 2003. In my unit on poetry, I wanted to include four short poems, two out of copyright, one modern (copyrighted) poem, and a part of a copyrighted song text. The Chinese publisher was willing to pay something for the rights, but the copyright holder claimed 50% of the total profits of the publication.

The link you provided shows very clearly that the most likely outcome of our discussion here is that members on these threads, e.o. LT are violating copyrights when poems are reproduced.

I am not defending the copyright legislation, and I am not the ultimate expert. The discussion is not whether that is fair or not, justified or not, reasonable or not; it is just a fact, and I suggest the group moderator contacts LT Admin to sort out this issue.

I suggest we let it lie. If the LT Admin decide that sentences or segments from books are inappropriate, they will let us know.

>43 edwinbcn: - actually the discussion is whether it is "fair or not", the whole copyright discussion is about 'fair use' and that phrase has never been defined.

Doesn't this sound like the use of poetry on LT?

PRINCIPLE: Under fair use, a critic discussing a published poem or body of poetry may quote freely as justified by the critical purpose; likewise, a commentator may quote to exemplify or illuminate a cultural/historical phenomenon, and a visual artist may incorporate relevant quotations into his or her work.

LIMITATIONS:

This principle does not apply to reproductions in textbooks and anthologies where quotations appear without an independent critical apparatus.
Quoted passages should be reproduced as accurately as possible to reflect, and not so minimally or selectively as to mislead about, creative choices embedded in the poem.
Critics, commentators, and artists should provide conventional attribution for their chosen quotations.
They should also have an articulable rationale for the relevance of their chosen quotations to their own work.
Likewise, the extent of quotation should be appropriate to the purpose of the use.
Uses that are solely “decorative” or “entertaining” should be avoided.
Permissible quotations used for exemplary purposes generally should be briefer than those used for critical purposes.
Visual artists generally should not incorporate entire poems in a merely decorative fashion without the copyright holder’s permission.

I think you people are all missing the basic point of the copyright law, which is to protect copyright owners from other people who try to earn money by quoting copyrighted material without paying for it or getting permission. At LT we are not "publishing" in the sense that a magazine or newspaper publishes and we certainly are not being paid for whatever we post. If anything, we are providing free advertising.

>30 Poquette: Yes, thanks, I know:-) I was being intentionally dramatic. I'm familiar with fair use. I publish fiction and reprints in Belletrista and have to have all the author, translator and or publisher permission ducks in a row to do so. However, I've enjoyed the discussion though.

jargoneer@42,

The current limit year of copyright has been called the "mouse horizon", because the owners of Mickey will of course buy as many legislators as necessary to insure nothing that old will ever again go out of copyright.

Quick quiz time - which is better?

1. "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past"

2. "Some unpleasant people became part of Gatsby's dream. But he cannot be blamed for that. Gatsby was a success, in the end, wasn't he?"

The former is, of course, the original ending to The Great Gatsby; the latter is from the re-written version (for ESL students) by Margaret Tarner.

>49 Jargoneer: How interesting....

I will be leading a group read of Life A User's Manual by Georges Perec in the 75 Books group, which I'd like to start in early August. I've created an introductory thread here:

Life A User's Manual: An Introduction

I'll post more information about the book and its author later today. Feel free to post any questions or comments, and to share information about the group read with anyone you think may be interested in the book.

Bulwer-Lytton, anyone?

Thought you all might like to read the winner of the 2011 Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Prize, which celebrates bad writing. The prize is given by the San Jose University Engllish Department in honor of Edgar Bulwer-Lytton, who began his 1830 novel Paul Clifford with:

It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents — except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness.

The winning entry is by a University of Wisconsin professor:

Cheryl’s mind turned like the vanes of a wind-powered turbine, chopping her sparrow-like thoughts into bloody pieces that fell onto a growing pile of forgotten memories.

And here's a link to the winners, runners-up, and honorable mentions.

I'm heading off to California and need to know if there are any worthwhile literary sights or not-to-be-missed bookshops that I should seek out. We're starting in San Francisco, so I'll head for City Lights. Darryl, is there anything particular I should look for there? Then we're driving to LA via San Jose (my 14 yr old wants to go to the Winchester House). Our time in LA will be a few days at Disney (urgh) and then a week in the NW corner (toward Santa Barbara). Is there anything literary around those parts, or is it all just movies?

If you like Steinbeck, I'd encourage a visit to Monterey after San Jose. I was in Monterey for work at the end of June and didn't have a lot of time to myself, but I believe there are some interesting sites in and around the city related to Steinbeck. If nothing else, it's a pretty drive along the coast...

I'm very tempted by Monterey . . . not sure about it though, as we're traveling with an 11 yr old and a 14 yr old, and by then we'll have already driven at least 16 hours from Vancouver to San Francisco and we'll be looking at another 7 or so to Anaheim . . . not sure how much time I can stand in the car with the kids! However, I'm torn because I'd really love to go there!

I can understand that! It is south of SJ so in the right general direction, but probably not as fast going as the Interstate.

>53 Nickelini: Joyce, there are several bookshops in the Bay area that I like (Green Apple Books and Aardvark Books in SF, University Press Books in Berkeley; see my profile page for links if interested), but City Lights is the only must see bookstore in the area, IMO. The only literary site outside of North Beach (the neighborhood where City Lights is located, which should have some literary history) that I'm aware of is Jack London Square in Oakland. I've been there a couple of times in all the times I've been to SF, but I haven't been on the history walk or visited the First and Last Chance Saloon that London often visited. I probably wouldn't recommend it for a short trip. Many of the bookstores have author readings throughout the year, but there are far fewer cultural events in July and August than in other months. However, there will still be things to do and see there, especially outdoor music festivals in Golden Gate Park and other venues; SF Arts is a great online resource for cultural events in the Bay Area.

I've only been to LA twice for brief visits, and both times I stayed on or near the UCLA campus (for medical school and residency interviews), so I can't help you there.

Have a great time, and let us know what you do while you're there!

BTW, Santa Cruz, which is on the Pacific Coast between San Jose and Monterey, has a nice amusement park and beach that I've been to several times with my best friends when they lived in Palo Alto (not Disney, but maybe something the kids would like?). One of my favorite bookstores is also there, Bookshop Santa Cruz.

Thanks for all the info! I knew you'd have something to say, Darryl. I agree that Santa Cruz would be fun for the kids. I've been to San Francisco & area a few times, but always on a romantic get-away, so doing it with kids is quite different.

Now I'm off to find out about parking . . . rates downtown are outrageous, so Fab is going to drop us at the hotel and then go park outside of the city and ride his bike back into town. I'm not even sure how to research this one . . .

>59 Nickelini: If I was in that situation I would consider parking at one of the outlying BART stations (e.g., Daly City, which is immediately south of SF), which are as cheap as $1 or $2 per day, and taking the train back to SF. These are generally covered and patrolled garages, so the car should be safe there. More info: http://www.bart.gov/guide/parking/index.aspx

Thanks, Darryl! As always, you are a wealth of information. The parking rate at our hotel is "only" $40 a day. Some of the other hotels I looked at charged $58. I think that's just wrong! And the "better" hotels don't have free internet--that's $15 a day. I guess they can get away with it.

And if anyone thinks I'm cheap for not wanting to pay $40-$60 a day for parking . . . think how many books I can buy at City Lights for that!

Darryl - I checked out that BART link. I'm blown away--that's so civilized! I just love San Francisco.

Hey, I got this in an email today. Someone liked our name (and yes, I believe they came across it here).

Club Read, a creation of the Southern Independent and Northern Atlantic Booksellers Associations, is a weekend getaway dedicated to celebrating book clubs and authors! Held at the beautiful Mariner’s Landing Resort in Huddleston, Virginia from October 15th to 16th...

Hey Ara Cara Zara, I got a new nickname.

Group Zeitgeist is great!

Especially "characteristic books" comes close to "what this group has been reading". The fact that some of the characteristic books are so high on the list, and so different from other groups, suggests there is considerable momentum and influence in the group to follow up in each other's reviews.

Since its discriminating power is very high, it will hopefully regularly update, we may see actual shifts in what hold the group's attention.

I have always tremendously regretted the scrapping of the functionality whereby it was possible on LT to check who was reading any book. Maybe this fuction could come back one day, or come back in a slightly different form to show which books are currently read by group members.

For those of you who are also in the Reading Globally group, or who like to read globally, I've started a thread over there on how to improve theme reads for 2012. I'd love any thoughts or ideas any of you Club Read-ers may have, and I'm going to be pulling together the suggestions over the weekend because next week I'm starting a new thread on theme read topics for 2012. So come on over and make some suggestions.

And now, for those of you in or interested in Reading Globally, it's time to start suggesting ideas for our 2012 theme reads. So come over to this thread and suggest away!

For those of you interested in the Reading Globally theme reads, the voting thread for 2012 themes is now open. Please come on over and help pick what we'll be reading about next year.

I've set up a thread to talk about Club Read 2012. Please come on over if you have ideas for improvements and also to volunteer to help out by taking responsibility for some of our regular threads (specifically, quarterly and year-end best reads and bimonthly? quirky challenges).

We now have a schedule for the Reading Globally group's 2012 Theme Reads.

1st Quarter Europe IV: The Balkans + Turkey (led by Cait)
2nd Quarter Closed and Selective Societies (led by Samantha_kathy and PolarisBeacon)
3rd Quarter Middle Eastern writers (led by Darryl/kidzdoc and ?????)
4th Quarter China and Neighboring Countries (led by Steven and wandering_star)

All year "classics in their own countries" read (led by arubabookwoman, with suggestions from all and additional co-leaders welcomed). I will post a suggestions thread soon.

Everyone is welcome to join us for these reads. Come on over to the Reading Globally group.

Club Read 2012 is now open! Please join us for another year of reading and conversation.

Remember LT lifetime memberships are on sale for just $15 until the 25th. A bargain!

Isn't it annoying when someone you love doesn't have their books in LT? Now's your chance to correct that:-)