War and Peace Group Read 2011 - Vol 3, Part III

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War and Peace Group Read 2011 - Vol 3, Part III

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1Deern
Editado: Abr 8, 2011, 1:54 am

New thread for Vol 3, Part III

Next thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/113750

2Deern
Editado: Abr 5, 2011, 9:31 am

So far it has been a little easier to read than part 2. I am now reading more quickly over all the strategic pondering. The Russians decided to leave Moscow to the enemy and on their retreat took their way through Moscow. That's just enough information for me.

We finally see the Rostovs again. I am now officially reminded of Scarlett O'Hara and Gone with the Wind, though Natasha is clearly the nicer person. Everyone is in a rush to leave Moscow, like everyone was running from Atlanta in GwtW. And like Scarlett (though for different reasons) the Rostovs waited till the last minute. And now they lost most of their property. I feel really sorry for them, because they always seemed so nice. And they took all the injured with them. I wonder how they will manage the journey.

And Andrei who was thought dead has so far survived yet another dangerous injury, though I fear this time he won't make it. At least this big coincidence will hopefully lead to a short reconciliation and give Andrei the chance to officially forgive Natasha.

I would have loved to read more about them, but then I got Napoleon instead. This was most interesting. Did he really expect to be greeted and welcomed in Moscow? Why?
I kow it's a completely different situation but I had to think of the old documentaries showing Hitler after marching into Paris, driving around in an open car, the streets being all deserted.

3Deern
Editado: mayo 9, 2011, 10:22 am

Do I have to understand why Vereshchagin was sacrificed? Did Rostopchin do that because he feared the crowd would otherwise turn against him? If so, it was quite intelligent. Now they let off some steam and are all horrified and will leave him in peace.
Sometimes I think I am too un-Russian for this book. Tolstoi explains a lot, but at times he just seems to take the reader's understanding of certain actions for granted.

4Deern
Abr 7, 2011, 9:34 am

Pierre - what the ... are you doing??! I am seriously scared now! He has clearly spent too much time alone musing about this ridiculous 'number of the beast'. Pierre of all people is planning to kill Napoleon?? And why would it be wise to do that wearing a kaftan?

So, now the French are invading Moscow and stop being an army. I must admit I like how Tolstoi describes this. They take houses and start cooking. Nice. I have no idea if it's the truth, but I'm glad they seem to be behaving themselves and I don't have to read any graphic descriptions of violence against the remaining inhabitants.

5Deern
Abr 9, 2011, 6:46 am

Finished this part and volume 3. The parts in the remaining volume and the two epilogues will be much shorter.

Natasha and Andrei:I think my heart is breaking. *sniff*
(And yet it's so beautiful)

Pierre's actions are ... strange. Still wondering about the kaftan. Why does he believe the guards would let someone wearing a kaftan approach Napoleon? Wouldn't that be a bit suspicious exactly because you can hide a weapon underneath?

So contrary to my posting #4 at the end of this part we got some violence and looters. Pierre as usual is behaving very honorable (or being just too nice) and is now a PoW. Looking forward to the next part and I hope his friendship with the French general (?) will help him out of it. At least he is spared the embarrassement of becoming the worst wannabe-assassin ever.

6JanetinLondon
mayo 4, 2011, 5:20 pm

Nathalie, my thoughts are all very similar to yours (although, again, I loved all the "strategy" bits, which Tolstoy says aren't strategy at all, but just "stuff happens").

The abandonment of Moscow. They know it’s coming, they watch it come, it finally happens:
“Moscow’s last day had dawned. It was a clear, bright autumn morning, a Sunday. Just an on ordinary Sundays the church bells everywhere were ringing for service. It seemed that no one yet was able to realize what awaited the city.” Just how poignant is this?

Again, “history” is the combination of millions of people just doing what they do. Some behave well – the Rostovs eventually unload nearly all their possessions and fill their carts with wounded soldiers. They are really the heroes of the book to me. Others behave less well, including both armies who loot to the full, the Governor who fails to act decisively to save anything, then tosses a traitor to the lynch mob (I don't fully get that, either, but it's a symptom of the general rot I guess), Berg, who has looted some stuff and wants one of the Rostov’s carts to take it away in (don’t think he gets one?), and Helene, who hastily converts to Catholicism, tells Pierre she wants a divorce on religious grounds, and takes up with not one but two Frenchmen in an effort to escape the whole tedious business.

Full of stunning vignettes – Kutuzov ordering the army to abandon the city, Napoleon realizing the people really are gone and no deputation awaits him, the people streaming over the roads and bridges, abandoning everything, the gradual descent into complete chaos, the fires starting to burn. Lots of short, choppy little chapters, as people run here and there, indecisive, doing whatever seems the next thing to do. Then, towards the end, some longer chapters, quieter, more coherent stories, some hints that life will carry on, as it must, some hopes for a dawn – Pierre’s session with the French officer, Natasha’s reconciliation with Andrei.

The only parts I didn’t like were the Pierre bits. He goes to save the Masonic papers and decides to become a peasant. He gets a coat and a gun and a knife and decides to kill Napoleon. He goes mad (shell shock from Borodino I suppose). He runs around distracted, and gets sidetracked into trying to help people – a lost child, a young woman under attack (I guess his good nature is trying to get out). Finally, he gets in a fight and is arrested. It all seems “light relief”, and I’m not sure why. To me, Pierre is one of the characters with the hardest and most interesting spiritual journey during the book, and I kind of think Tolstoy thinks so, too, so why he is always written this way?

7kac522
Jun 1, 2011, 2:03 am

I have been away from the book for a month or so, but have now finished Volume III--the last part did seem to move quickly. The French sure live up to their reputation, don't they? Or maybe we get our impressions of the French from Tolstoy? I'm thinking in particular of the scene where Pierre saves the Frenchman's life.

I for one am so relieved that Andrei & Natasha get a chance to reconcile. And this, the last sentence from the end of Part Three, XXXII, made me sit up and take notice: "...the unresolved question of life and death hanging not only over Bolkonsy but over Russia shut out all other conjectures." Does Andrei represent the fate of Russia? Or just a faction of it?

8JanetinLondon
Jun 1, 2011, 4:24 am

#7 - Does Andrei represent the fate of Russia? Or just a faction of it?

A very interesting question. I felt throughout that Tolstoy meant each of the main characters to represent in a way the fate of Russia, but in particular Andrei and Pierre. While Andrei lies wounded, perhaps dying, and while Russia lies in the grip of this war, it's hard for people to think about the future, to think about marriage, settling down, building up their land, their family, their business. But underneath, these thoughts are still there, because life does/must go on.

9kac522
Jun 2, 2011, 12:23 am

Yes, and Tolstoy makes that point in the beginning of this next section, that lives of people beyond Moscow were barely changed; that life was about the little details, not the big historical picture (Vol IV, Part One, Section IV--p. 943-44 in P&V). In fact it's downright irritating to read about life in St. Petersburg, where the talk about the war is just making conversation.

10Rebeki
Jul 9, 2011, 4:15 am

Another enjoyable section. I was quite moved by the evacuation of Moscow and amused by Napoleon's surprise at finding no delegation to meet him.

It's very interesting to read how, when faced with material comfort and plenty of loot, an army can disintegrate, while its discipline is much tighter the more difficult conditions are. It makes perfect sense, but I'd never thought of it that way.