KARAMAZOV: Who's in?

The Contemplator Ivan Kramskoy
BK Book 3 ch. 6

Dear Salonistas

The time is upon us! With only 15 days to go before the November 1 start of our final tome read for 2010, I'd like to get an idea of who will be joining us, and to put a few ideas out there for feedback.

In consultation with the Benevolent Wisdom of our Great Leader (Long may he Live!), I plan the following threads, a cat's cradle of Russian Madness, a tapestry of Dostoevskyan tears and laughter, a weft and warp of vodka and herring.

I hereby propose:

1. A series of chronological discussion threads going through book by book, for example: KARAMAZOV Book 1. Rather than having thematic threads as we had with IJ, I think a chronological approach will make it easier for people to read at their own pace and yet not get their reading messed up with plot spoilers. I'll use these threads to put up salient points chapter by chapter, notes, thematic discussions, anything I can think of that will help readers to come to grips with the book, explanations of historical background, questions from readers etc.

2. A KARAMAZOV Quote thread, for salonistas to put up their favourite quotes, and to spark discussion on those quotes, a kind of closer reading, I-love/hate-this-bit- thread.

3. A Dostoevsky Quote thread. I have hundreds of Dostoevsky quotes from my last two years of reading. I"ll just bang these up in random order for people to enjoy, comment on, tie into their reading of BK, or other books, or life (what is life, btw?)

We already have a prep thread for this read, with discussion on translations etc

here

So, what say ye all thereto?

If you're joining the read, could you put your hand/fin/flapper/paw/other body part up so I can get an idea of who's in.

Muchas Gracias.
Murr

Of course, no one is bound by anything; he can also drop the book after two pages of the story and never pick it up again. But still there are readers of such delicacy that they will certainly want to read to the very end so as to make no mistake in their impartial judgement.

BK
From the Author

I will be participating. Tactfully, though it's not one of my predominating virtues. Let's make it a good show. The possibilities are of course endless. There should be little difficulty keeping this thing a-steamrolling. As old Charles Fort said: 'It steamrolls when it comes steamrolling time.'

Your proposals are sound. I've bought a second copy to read a different translation this time through. See you there!

I'm in. Sounds great your approach, Murr. I may start my own BK reading thread too a la what Porius has done w/his diary, time permitting....

I recently grabbed a good reading copy of a Constance Garnett trans., so am debating whether to go with it or stick w/P&V.

I'm excited to see this get underway. Thanks in advance to Murr for all your prep. work for Dostoy's ultimate achievement, these past two years.

I am in !

I am a bit absent for the moment, budget time at the office, renovation works at home and a review preparation on another Flaubert's masterpiece.
Now I have a deadline - 31 october - to have a clear mind for " Les frères Karamazov"

I am very absent for the moment, but it is my fondest wish to join you all in Nov. No promises. Only hugs. And best intentions.

Only very in and out these days on LT, and really terrible at group reads... but I can't imagine missing out on the opportunity to study BK with Mr. 'Murr, so I'm in, to the best of my ability.

In. But only if you're nice to your proctologist.

I'm in. I've got the Constance Garnett translation as well.

How many who are in so far plan on keeping their own reading threads of BK? Kind of like what a lot of us did two years ago with Ulysses? I do think I start out w/one, but not sure till I'm into it if it'll really be necessary.

Glad to see Meddy and thea, longtimers whom life stuff has kept away from us and from enjoying your good company.

My Constance doesn't have notes; so I'll use the P&V translation for that (and my hefty Joseph Frank abridged version of his mammoth five-volume ed.

Murr, would it behoove us, you think, to start a secondary resource thread, featuring Frank, Belinksy, other biographers we could link for helps?

I'll probably read along. I don't have much of a background in Russian lit, but I enjoyed the P&V translation of Anna Karenina so much that I think I'll stick with them.

In.

Oh Great High Priest of All that is Fyodr, I beseach thee only that thy grant to us wisdom as to which translation to seek out.

I have the Walter Covell reading on audiobook, and plan to do this one on both audio and dead tree versions. Many years ago, as a Freshman in College, I read this an declared it immediately genius second only to the Great Whale. I haven't read it since. Looking forward to reassessing the wisdom of the ancient me.

I'm planning on in -- depending on how grading of sophomore essays proceeds, I may be in and out -- I have the P&V translation.

This is great to see so many ayes! Thank you all. I will do my best to make it interesting and worthwhile.

A_musing: I'm reposting my comments from the prep thread on translations here:

My own feeling about translations for this read is that they do not matter. Read whatever translation you have to hand/can get hold of. I doubt that we will get into any detailed linguistic analysis over the pros and cons of different versions. We will have too much else on our plate lol!

Go for a translation that comes with good footnotes and introductory material and that you enjoy carrying around and reading. The more versions we have, the more we can share knowledge from the footnotes and stuff. The Chapters are short so it will be easy to locate things if we need to close read and quote.

I will read the Pevear and Volokhonsky version published by Everyman (I adore Everyman hardbacks), and probably also the Ignat Avsey version published by Oxford World Classics.


I've been comparing key passages from P&V and Avsey and so far, I think the P&V is better. They seem to be able to capture the humour more (BK has moments of high hilarity) and the wild swings of tone that are one of the key features of Dostoevsky's style. But seriously, go for whatever version you have.

Freeeeky, if no one else objects strenuously, I would prefer to keep everything on the chronological discussion threads. I thought about having a separate thread for secondary material, but it could get out of hand and become tricky to reference things to the primary text. Can we start by keeping it tight, and bringing in secondary material as and when necessary linking it to what's happening in the discussion threads? I think this will make it easier for late starters/ /slower readers. etc

Subject to your mighty and benevolent will of course, oh great leader.

Urania, my proctologist and I have reached a state of amity after he learned to sing the Glazunov piano concerto and left off humming Wagner, so nothing to fear there, except Gotterdammerung itself.

This read is sponsored by Prick-Me-Up™

I'll be reading, or rereading - curious to see how different it is now from late teens or early twenties when I last read it.

I am also planning to re-read it, ditto to #15. I think Chris has it somewhere in the house - if I can't find his no doubt older edition (probably Garnett) I will go out and get the P&V.

I read this last year, but would like to at least lurk and learn. I'm tempted to reread it with you and will at least reread portions.

I have an aesthetically unpleasing, aged mass market paperback edition translated by the never-mentioned Andrew H. MacAndrew, with tiny print and tight margins. I may use this as an excuse to find a nicer copy, but I am attached to this yellowed volume, it having seen me though before.

Murr, you successfully snatched me from my underground hideout, where I lay brooding on FM (Fyodor Michaylovich) and his terrifying novels.
The following Dostoevskyana are supposed to either help me through the novel, or drag me into a quagmire of secondary, tertiary and whatever literature, as long as it distracts me from my original purpose.

De gebroeders Karamazov, translated by Jan van der Eng, published by Van Oorschot.
Братья Карамазовы (Москва Эксмо 2008)
Tolstoy or Dostoevsky: An Essay in Contrast
Geld en goed bij Dostojevski
La poétique de Dostoïevski
Hugo and Dostoevsky
Достоевский. Энциклопедия (The Dostoevsky encyclopaedia)
Достоевский. Русский маркиз де Сад (Dostoyevsky. The Russian Marquis de Sade)
Л. Толстой и Достоевский (Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky)
Вечные спутники : портреты из всемирной литературы (Eternal companions - portraits from world literature)(chapter: Dostoyevsky). This is actually focussing on Crime and Punishment, but contains interesting observations on FM's writing technique in general.
Достоевский и Ницше (Dostoevsky and Nietzsche, by Lev Shestov)

My first BK read was about 25 years ago, inspired by a read of Der Untergang des Abendlandes, where Spengler states that reading BK is a necessary (and perhaps almost sufficient) step in the understanding of the Russian culture.

Pim! how great that you are joining us. Ladies and Gentlemen, our old friend Pim here is going to read it in Russian. This will be invaluable for us. I am so excited!

And Pyrocow, I'm sure many of us who did the IJ read will be eager to know your thoughts on how BK connects to IJ. Wohoohoo!

Who's going to translate Pim's observations? I'm excited too! Pim Philipse, the gentle genius of (is it Belgium?) If it is Belgium, Pim, you're my new favorite salonista of Belgium. Sorry, Mac.

Pyro, glad you're aboard too, but more importantly, is there anyway you think you can talk David Foster Wallace into joining us for the BK read? I know you're closely connected to him now as C.E.O. of his legacy library, and I just thought I'd mention it on the off chance that maybe you can convince him to participate.

UPDATE

So far we have 16 salonistas who have sworn blood oaths to join us:

Porius
SLick
EF
Captain Mac
Medellia
Thealizbet
Urania
Janepricestrada
sutpen
A_musing
Janeajones
Solla
Ann_in_PDX
Ridgewaygirl
Pim
Pyrocow

Most hearty Welcome to you all!

And to those who are worried about time commitments and their existential state vis a vis LT, don't. Everyone can read at their own pace and read in whatever language, style or pace they want, and can contribute to the threads or not in whatever way they want. So Be it!

I have ordered Champagne, vodka, pickled Mushrooms, salted and pickled herring, with or without yoghurt, blinis, caviar, gelatto, Absinthe for Urania, and a pile of pigeon feathers for myself, although of course, I'm happy to share them with those who are of a sensitive nature and who can appreciate the finer pleasures of feline life...

In much the same way that Peter the Great sent out scouts to scour Europe for experts to bring back to Russia to launch her into the modern age and to make her a member of Europe, invitations have been written and spies sent out all over LT to haul in those who have been on those pages before and who can guide us in our effor...

*Murr falls asleep*
(It's been a long day)

This is the most exciting startup to a group read we've had since Ulysses.

"I'm so excited
And I just can't hide it
I'm about to lose control
And I think I like it"

~ The Pointer Sisters

Thank you, Murr, for your outstanding commitment to excellence in this epic literary endeavor.

I'm glad you attributed that to the Pointer Sisters. I thought at first it was another advert for your boner cream or pill or whatever.

Oh, btw I'm in for this read. I have two copies that I am aware of, one is a regular paperback with words so small I can't see them and the other is a 20lber from Heritage that I'm not sure I can hold for more than ten minutes at a time. I'm considering purchasing a copy I can actually read. I have several others of D.'s in trade paperbacks (I think) that would do well if I can find it, but I have a sinking feeling it will be a P&V translation. I just don't know if there is one with the Constance Garnett translation. I suppose I could look around for one though. For me translations have two main qualities, first, a close adherence to the words, moods, and when easily possible to the interior jokes, puns, and so forth. The second quality is the music of the language. I'm a sucker for the older sounds. hence, my love of D, Dickens, Tolstoy, and even Cooper and Scott. I see P&V as rockers, while Constance Garnett is like a symphony. I don't know how accurate her translations are, but I surely like her word choices.

Okay, for those of you waiting on tenterhooks for the resolution of my dilemma, and I'm sure there are many, I was able to find a Dover edition of BK translated by CG. I've ordered it and am definitely in.

Pursuant to the 225 great books thread with this same purchase I ordered Journey to the End of the Night and If on a Winter's Night a Traveler, both highly recommended and both I have been wanting to read for a while now.

24> or whatever

Huh?

It's not a cream, nor a pill, certainly nothing as dismissable as "whatever," but a revolutionarily designed prick applied at the base of the respondent's unit (only in a flaccid state)
which results in full engorgement in 1.4 seconds. Please read the advertisement more closely.

I ordered the Pevear & Volokhonsky version that Murr recommended from Amazon this weekend, so I'm in (particularly if sturgeon is provided as an alternative to herring).

late to the thread but definitely in. I have an old Garnett beat-up paperback I picked up at half-price a few years ago - which inspired me to purchase a nice p&v translation and that's what I'll read.

Murr, I'm excited and have had this one highlighted all year. This will be my second try, but this time without a new baby in the house.

I will be reading and watching from that corner over there ---->, Murrushka... I have a 1950ish Constance Garnett.

> 28 Congrats with a new baby in your house.
You should read her or him from the Brothers before sleeping.

I did it with my kids with Thomas Mann's Jozef and Bros. It worked. I fell asleep after 5 minutes !

thanks Mac, but that was last time. They're 4 & 6 now and no more are coming! I haven't tried reading D to them...lol.

I bought the book last night and began to read Pevear's introduction while I was waiting for my salad at a restaurant. The last item in the table of contents starts on page 777. Beyond that the first item starts on page xi, not even close to 1. That's a lot of salads in a short time.

Robert

UPDATE

Porius
SLick
EF
Captain Mac
Medellia
Thealizbet
Urania
Janepricestrada
sutpen
A_musing
Janeajones
Solla
Ann_in_PDX
Ridgewaygirl
Pim
Pyrocow
Geneg
Kidzdoc
dchaikin
highdesertlady
Mrdurick

Hurrah! Welcome to the newbies. I am on vacation in chiang Mai in northern thailand. Back home on 26th. No internet connection. Flooding. Terrible flooding. oh dear. more later.

I have ordered wodka and herring for you, Murruska... See you on Monday!